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Author Topic: .257 cal Monocoque PCP  (Read 54057 times))

Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #100 on: December 20, 2015, 02:00:13 AM »
Nope, this is a one-of project.... I never make parts or guns to sell.... no time to get my own projects done.... *LOL*....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline oldpro

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #101 on: December 20, 2015, 02:04:26 AM »
 Bob just for chit and giggles what would you charge to make a copy? I think people would be shocked if they knew how much something like this would cost in parts and labor for a one off.  Im guessing 3-4K if not more.
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Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #102 on: December 20, 2015, 02:08:05 AM »
More.... It takes me forever with my equipment, 50% of the time or more is in setup.... and then the design time is longer than the project.... People just have no idea of the time involved....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #103 on: December 20, 2015, 08:15:47 PM »
Today I worked on the Thimble which contains the Barrel Port and Loading Tray.... The 3/8" diameter stub on the barrel fits into the front of it to insure alignment with the bore, and the joint is sealed with an O-ring, which also seals it into the Breechblock in front of the Transfer Port.... I haven't yet machined the O-ring groove behind the transfer port in it.... The barrel port in this part was machined with a 3/16" end mill starting at 30* to match the transfer port at the back of the port, and then angled to 45* to make the front of the port longer to match the bore area.... The port ends up just over 3/16" wide x 5/16" long at the boreline, but blends into the 17/64" round transfer port.... The finishing touches were done with a Dremel....



The hole at the back fits over the head of an 8-32 screw in the bottom of the Breechblock, that takes the end load from the barrel screwing against it, and the air pressure inside it.... You can see that screw in the bottom of the loading tray in the photo below....



Once again, I am extremely pleased with the way everything fits and lines up.... This relative small part took about 6 hours to make.... Next up is the Bolt, which will carry the O-ring that seals the breech inside this Thimble.... It is the retractable style I developed a while back, with no probe to restrict the airflow.... Then comes the complicated job of machining the "J" shaped bolt slot in the Breechblock and Monocoque tube.... I'm not looking forward to that....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline YEMX

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #104 on: December 20, 2015, 09:49:35 PM »
I should have been watching this thread more keenly- I would have sent you a hardened, taller sear for use w/a 1.25" main tube and the Prod trigger group. 

I ordered a customized Prod trigger group for use w/a Mrod tube some time ago for a build, but I personally didn't like the look or feel of it.  The sear (as you found out) has to be taller to engage the hammer, and the trigger group I ordered came with a modified sear. 

I've since swapped out the modified sear for standard one, and am using the Prod trigger group on a 13xx pumper build. 

If you'd like Bob, I would be willing to send you the sear if you need/want it.
  • Silver Spring Md

Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #105 on: December 20, 2015, 10:07:20 PM »
Not necessary.... I machined off the top of the trigger group to fit the MRod size tube (that moves it up 0.030"), plus an extra .010".... It sticks into the tube about 0.040", I can't imagine that being an issue.... However, if you have no use for it, I would indeed like to see it, and it would cover me should the other one not work properly.... I'll PM you my address....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline Bill G

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #106 on: December 21, 2015, 09:42:07 AM »
Bob just for chit and giggles what would you charge to make a copy? I think people would be shocked if they knew how much something like this would cost in parts and labor for a one off.  Im guessing 3-4K if not more.

If we were to honestly consider the concept to design to prototype to manufacuter.  I'm gonna say $25K is a likely figure.  That being with the intent of producing for the masses.  Bob looks to have put the concept and design a LOT of consideration and it is for him not production so he effectively writes it off as entertainment.  Bob, you have a heck of an entertainment budget  :o.  lol

Bill   
  • Nicholasville KY
Engineering is the art of modeling materials we don't wholly understand, into shapes we can't precisely analyze, so as to withstand forces we can't properly asses, in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance.

Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #107 on: December 21, 2015, 01:48:47 PM »
Bill, your comments are right on.... Precisely why I never make the same gun twice.... The only time anyone gets a chance to get one of my project guns is when I tire of it and need the money for the next project.... Even that is hard to do, when you consider how little guys are willing to spend for a one-of, custom rifle.... The most I ever got was $1000 for the prototype Millenium Pumper, which barely paid for all the parts, and I have tried to sell a couple of other projects since at the same price, with no interest.... So, yes, all I can do is chalk it up to Entertainment.... I figure I have never even made $1.00 an hour, most of the time I am lucky to cover the parts....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline LeadBreakfast

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #108 on: December 21, 2015, 02:56:07 PM »
Fantastic work! Still watching this one very closely!
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Offline scottyhazzard

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #109 on: December 21, 2015, 03:32:07 PM »
Bob, I'm new to this so maybe I'm lacking a degree of understanding. Having said that I find it hard to believe that $1000 is the most folks would pay. Shocking really, after seeing what you do and accomplish. Especially in light of how much people pay for a production rifle! I can't fathom paying so little for so much. Still watching, this thread it's fascinating.
  • California, City of Trains and Clay

Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #110 on: December 21, 2015, 05:43:59 PM »
Scott, believe it.... Even though some of them follow my build threads, they have no idea of the amount of work involved, or are unwilling to pay wages that they wouldn't even get serving Fast Food.... I'm not complaining, far from it.... this situation means I can plod along at my own (retired) pace, and never have to deal with impatient customers.... I don't know how those building Custom PCPs can stand it.... I had enough of it in my 30+ years in the R/C Model Yacht business....

Today I made the Bolt, except to fit the handle, and cut the O-ring groove in the Loading Tray / Thimble behind the transfer port.... The Bolt still has to be cut off about where the line is drawn, which will be flush with the back of the Breechblock when fully open....



The Bolt has a very long travel, when it is fully forward the shoulder on the Bolt is up against the Loading Tray.... This is necessary because of the long bullet, necessitating a long loading port, plus the nose of the bolt has to go past the transfer port, which had to be far enough from the front of the loading port to allow for the O-ring to seal when retracted so that the nose of the bolt clears the back of the transfer port, without the O-ring dropping into the port when fully forward.... It will retract about 3/8" from the full forward, loading position, to the firing position....

It's time to do some more thinking to make sure I don't forget anything before I continue machining the tubes.... The Monocoque tube and Breechblock both need the slot machined for the bolt handle.... and the Reservoir tube has yet to have any machining done.... although all the internal parts are now complete....

Bob
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 10:30:27 PM by rsterne »
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline Matt15

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #111 on: December 21, 2015, 08:45:07 PM »
Beautiful work Bob!!
  • Il
Tuned Webley Patriot .25  28 FPE 
Benjamin Trail np pistol: 400 fps
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Offline YEMX

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #112 on: December 22, 2015, 07:24:11 PM »
The rifle is shaping up quite nicely!!  Sear is in the mail Bob!

Here's a picture of the modified sear compared to the factory sear.  Modified on top.  Sorry about the bad picture quality:

« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 07:37:47 PM by YEMX »
  • Silver Spring Md

Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #113 on: December 22, 2015, 07:42:32 PM »
Question.... why the oval hole?....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline YEMX

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #114 on: December 22, 2015, 08:15:27 PM »
No idea!  You'd have to talk to Mike at Citrus Airguns... He's the one who made the sear originally.
  • Silver Spring Md

Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #115 on: December 23, 2015, 09:49:43 PM »
Only got a few hours in the shop today.... but I got the holes in the top and bottom of the lower tube machined.... That allowed me to bolt together some of the sub-assemblies for the first time.... It actually is beginning to look like something other than a pile of parts....



The barrel and Monocoque tube are not in place in the photo, because I wanted you to be able to see the general arrangement of how the parts fit together.... It was great to actually be able to shoulder it and see how the ergonomics work.... I'm quite pleased, although the gun is definitely long.... The LOP as shown in the photo is 14".... I still have to machine the side holes for the valve screws, the hole on the left for the gauge, and the slot on the right for the cocking handle for the hammer.... Then it remains to machine the slot for the bolt handle in the Monocoque tube and the Breechblock.... The next time I put it together it should look close to the finished product.... Long, thin, and heavy....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline Stikman

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #116 on: December 24, 2015, 02:52:56 AM »
Ya know what...your rifle looks like a Ljutic "Spacegun". Cool...

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Offline Matt15

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #117 on: December 24, 2015, 09:32:42 AM »
Looking very Nice Bob!!!!


Merry Christmas,

Matt
  • Il
Tuned Webley Patriot .25  28 FPE 
Benjamin Trail np pistol: 400 fps
Crosman 2100 12 pumps= 790 fps with 7.9 gr pellet

2017-2018 Squirrel Season
Squirrels: 20


2016-2017 Squirrel Season
The Total was:
15 Fox Squirrels
11 grey squirrels

Offline Michael Loar

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #118 on: December 24, 2015, 10:51:01 AM »
I have been reading with jaw on the ground in total amazement as to your skills and dedication to your projects.  I do a lot of modding to my air guns but its pale in comparison to the depths you go and accomplish in such a relatively short time.

I am in need of a lathe / mill and did not realize you can even get a attachment to do milling on a lathe as I do have a friend that has an old South Bend lathe of 48" by 8" swing I believe with a 1" thru hole I could get for a grand with more tooling and cutters than I would likely need but as has been said it not so much the money being the problem as the room required to set it up for use.

Keep up the good work and I will be following to the end when we get to see what the beast will do and hope you can ring the bell at 500 yards with her.

Mike
  • Oxford, Alabama
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Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #119 on: December 24, 2015, 01:14:12 PM »
That's a great deal on the old (well equipped) South Bend, that's a big lathe for home use.... Check on eBay and see if you can find a Milling Attachment for it.... The one for my late 60's Atlas 6 x 12 cost me $400 in 2008.... The drawback is that they are not as rigid as a proper milling machine, have a small vice, limited vertical travel, and the horizontal travel is whatever the croosfeed travel is on the lathe....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).