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Author Topic: .257 cal Monocoque PCP  (Read 54057 times))

Offline Bill G

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2015, 07:38:18 PM »
This is one of those days you almost dread, and then feel great when it's over..... provided everything works the way it should.... The spacer between the two tubes is 10" long and concave on top and bottom to fit the 1-1/4" diameter tubes, and keep them parallel and 1/4" apart.... It could have been made from a piece of 3/4" x 1" aluminum bar stock, but the only piece I had long enough was 1-1/2" wide.... so the first thing I had to do was saw it lengthwise and then mill it to 1" wide.... Since it was 10" long and I can only machine a bit over 6" of length, that required two setups, and they were critical to match up parallel and exactly 1" wide.... Fortunately, that setup of the vice on the milling attachment on my lathe was also necessary for milling both sides to a radius using the 1-1/4" diameter router bit I just bought.... but again it meant two setups per side, critical that the part be square to the machine in both axis to end up with the same thickness at the center of the web from end to end, to end up with the tubes parallel in height.... and also with the grooves centered in the width of the part, to make sure the tubes end up parallel side to side.... I'm pleased to say that it went very well.... Here is the finished blank....



It fits the tubes perfectly, in fact better than previous breeches where I have machined the bottom with a ball-end mill.... I would definitely use a carbide router bit for this job again, especially with them being a fraction of the cost of a high-speed steel ball-end mill.... It needs to be run fairly fast, with not too deep a cut.... I was running 1270 RPM and removing 0.020" per pass once the full width of the router was engaged.... and using the power cross-feed, that was smoother than going by hand.... Including shallower finishing passes, that meant for about 15-17 passes per setup, times 6 (including milling the width to 1"), so about 100 passes.... It took me 5 hours to produce the piece you see above.... There is a bit more machining to do to this part, it has to be drilled for the transfer port and the three bolts that fasten the upper and lower tubes together.... plus a recess in one end to hold the back of the Forestock in place.... However, that won't happen until the tubes are finished and this will be machined to match.... Besides, I've had enough for one day.... It's time to have a drink and relax.... It's been a very productive few days, and it's time for a break....

Bob

nice job Bob.  When working with soft materials like aluminum  and even free machining steel, router bits are the best bang for the buck.  Light cuts high rpm and fair feed rates make for no more time than with a traditioal form cutting end mill. And as you said, pennies in comparison.
  • Nicholasville KY
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Offline Motorhead

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2015, 07:45:19 PM »
Now punch mill some 5/8 to 3/4 holes down its length to take away some weight ... or not ?

* being holes would be against tubes you would never see it  ;)
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Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #62 on: December 05, 2015, 01:29:55 AM »
On a 12+ lb. gun, with a 2.8 lb. scope, I would never notice the difference.... *LOL*.... Sliced my hand up today in the shop, so progess will be delayed a bit....  :-[

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline William

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2015, 01:38:33 AM »
On a 12+ lb. gun, with a 2.8 lb. scope, I would never notice the difference.... *LOL*.... Sliced my hand up today in the shop, so progess will be delayed a bit....  :-[

Bob
Sorry to hear that Bob, I hope it wasn't too bad. I wish you a speedy recovery and please be careful.

You project is looking really good, cant wait to see it finished.

William
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Offline scottyhazzard

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #64 on: December 05, 2015, 05:28:48 AM »
Careful, I truly enjoy the thread but not at the cost of your hand or digits. I hope you heal quickly and painlessly. It's going to be along winter, so pace yourself and take care of you.
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Offline Bruce

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #65 on: December 05, 2015, 09:23:45 AM »
Bob,

I hope you heal fast! So unfortunate that you got hurt.

Bruce
  • Ontario Canada

Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2015, 11:13:38 PM »
I received my new 33" Barrel today.... it slugged out right at 0.257" groove as requested, with a 7" twist.... I set to work fitting it to the Breechblock which I had previously drilled 1/2" all the way through.... I drilled the front to 33/64" and tapped it to a depth of 2" with 9/16"-18 NF threads, and then counterbored it 3/4" deep to 9/16" to fit the OD of the barrel.... The Barrel was turned down on the end to 3/8" to fit inside a steel Thimble which will carry the barrel port, next there is a 1/2" diameter portion to fit the bore of the Breechblock, and then the threads.... This was all done in a 4-jaw chuck so that it was concentric to the bore.... There is an O-ring which is compressed to seal the Barrel to the Thimble, and simultaneously seal the Barrel into the ID of the Breechblock when it is tightened against the Thimble.... Here is a photo of the Barrel machining, the roughed out Breechblock (made from 1-1/8" OD 2024-T3 round bar), and the two screwed together....





My hand is on the mend, it felt good to get back into the shop today.... Tomorrow I hope to turn the OD of the Breechblock to fit inside the upper CrMoly Monocoque tube.... Once the rough fitting is done, there will be a lot of work required to finish and mount the Breechblock in the Monocoque tube....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline Matt15

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2015, 08:36:41 AM »
Glad you are back to building! Nice work!!






Boy I wish I could afford a lathe and milling machine.
  • Il
Tuned Webley Patriot .25  28 FPE 
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2017-2018 Squirrel Season
Squirrels: 20


2016-2017 Squirrel Season
The Total was:
15 Fox Squirrels
11 grey squirrels

Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2015, 12:28:56 PM »
I wish I could afford a BIGGER one!!!

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline MJP

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2015, 12:53:19 PM »
Cost is not the issue in bigger machines, the big ones cost next to nothing in here, but wher the hec do you put a machine that is 3 meters tall 4m long and over 2 wide and weighs over 4.5 metric tons?
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Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2015, 01:00:19 PM »
I agree, space is a problem at least as severe as funds.... My Atlas 12x36 lathe was passed down from my Dad, who bought it in the late 1960's.... The tooling, on the other hand, keeps me pretty much broke though.... so you can imagine how much I have left over for a lathe with a headstock bore bigger than 3/4".... or a REAL milling machine.... While I wouldn't call my setup a "toy", it certainly provides me with many challenges.... 

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline Matt15

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2015, 02:00:28 PM »
I wish I could afford a BIGGER one!!!

Bob

LOL! You could really make bigger and better air rifles then!!

Cost is not the issue in bigger machines, the big ones cost next to nothing in here, but wher the hec do you put a machine that is 3 meters tall 4m long and over 2 wide and weighs over 4.5 metric tons?

That would be my other problem.  :(
  • Il
Tuned Webley Patriot .25  28 FPE 
Benjamin Trail np pistol: 400 fps
Crosman 2100 12 pumps= 790 fps with 7.9 gr pellet

2017-2018 Squirrel Season
Squirrels: 20


2016-2017 Squirrel Season
The Total was:
15 Fox Squirrels
11 grey squirrels

Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2015, 12:05:03 AM »
Yesterday I got a piece of 1.5" black Delrin rod from Whitewolf (thanks, Kim!) and started turning it into a Buttstock today.... After a few attempts at trying to hold it, I managed to mill off both sides to leave me with a piece 1" thick, which I have drilled and tapped for the 3/8" threaded rod as shown.... It will soon look much prettier....  :) .... The other part in the photo is the partially finished fill fitting for the front of the Air Reservoir.... It is tapped 1/8" NPT on the front for a male Foster, and the holes for the four 1/4"-28 x 1/4" SHCS retaining bolts are drilled and tapped at 90*.... It needs shortening and the O-ring groove machined yet....



I usually use a 5C Collet in a square holder to drill holes at 90*, but the parts for this project are over 1" diameter, so they wouldn't fit.... The solution was to turn a 1" long x 1" diam. stub on the end of each part so that I could hold it in the collet as shown below.... The other parts below are the "Barrel Stretcher" which fits inside the front of the Monocoque tube, anchored by three 10-32 x 1/4" low profile SHCSs to stand the load of the Belleville washers that will put the barrel in tension.... and the mount for the Hammer Spring Adjuster which I made previously....



The upper (long) screw in the holder for the adjuster goes through the Breechblock (below the bolt) and the spacer, securing the rear of the two tubes together.... The shorter (lower) screw just mounts it into the lower tube, and will have a short piece of Delrin rod inside the hole pressing against the side of the 9/16" bolt that carries the spring guide, to lock the adjustment in place....

I also got the 10" long Breechblock turned to fit inside the Monocoque tube today, which prepares it for some of the machining to come.... I still have to make the Valve and Hammer.... Then comes the difficult job of machining the 4 foot long CrMoly tubes to hold everything....   ::)

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline Matt15

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2015, 08:28:54 AM »
Looking Good!!  8)
  • Il
Tuned Webley Patriot .25  28 FPE 
Benjamin Trail np pistol: 400 fps
Crosman 2100 12 pumps= 790 fps with 7.9 gr pellet

2017-2018 Squirrel Season
Squirrels: 20


2016-2017 Squirrel Season
The Total was:
15 Fox Squirrels
11 grey squirrels

Offline LeadBreakfast

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2015, 05:08:58 PM »
making great progress, this is going to be quite the setup when complete
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Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #75 on: December 10, 2015, 10:56:58 PM »
This morning I finished up the Buttstock.... It turned out quite well, with lots of adjustment.... The LOP can be varied from 13-15", and the drop is adjustable over a range of 1-1/4" in 1/4" increments.... The shaft in the butt pad is 1/8" off center, so 1/2 turn changes the height of the butt by 1/4" and then there are three holes on 1/2" centers.... The threaded rod is glued and pinned into the butt pad, as well as threaded, and the wingnut locks the rotation....



This afternoon I did most of the machining on the Breechblock insert.... pretty much everything except the slot for the bolt handle.... I will have to duplicate everything you see here in the Monocoque tube, so accuracy and layout is the key here.... I'm quite pleased with the way it turned out....






The two holes with low profile 10-32 screws in them are to take the tension load of the barrel when the Belleville washer stack at the muzzle is compressed.... There are three screws that bolt the upper and lower tubes together, a 10-32 at the back and two 8-32s forward,  either side of the transfer port.... The transfer port is milled at a 30* angle towards the muzzle to ease the flow transition into the barrel.... The Picatinny scope rail bolts to the Breechblock though holes in the Monocoque tube, with the forward screw tapped into the tube itself.... The opening for loading is milled flush with the centerline of the bore on the right side, and just past the vertical centerline, so just over 1/4 of the material has been removed.... This should make the assembly much more rigid vertically than milling out the entire top half of it.... There will be a steel thimble (actually in 2 pieces) that will have the barrel port, chamber, and loading tray machined into it.... The 8-32 screw under it will take the end force trying to push it back on firing.... It is set deeply so that the head is in shear for extra strength.... I will likely mill the slot for the bolt handle into both the Monocoque tube and the Breechblock in one operation after they have been assembled.... or possibly machine the tube first, then install the Breechblock into it and mill the slot through the slot in the tube.... I'm sure it will be the most difficult part of the whole procedure....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline LeadBreakfast

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #76 on: December 11, 2015, 07:54:49 PM »
Looking great Bob!
  • MN
.25 Condor, Sidewinder 30 4x16-50, Roy Kasten LDC, TalonTunes goodness
392, Williams peep.
CCS 2400kt HPA conversion, JDS regged tank, Hawke 2-7x32, TKO, Challenger probe and power adjuster.

Offline rsterne

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #77 on: December 11, 2015, 08:26:48 PM »
Today I machined the double convex Tube Spacer to match the Breechblock, as the mounting screws and transfer port penetrate it to connect the two tubes.... The recess in the middle is a pocket to clear the barrel tensioning retainer screw....



On the bottom at the front I had to machine a recess that will hold the Forestock tube in place tight against the top of the Reservoir.... you can see it in the photo below.... I also got the Hammer made today, including the cocking handle, as shown....



The total weight of the Hammer and handle is 182 grams, and it will have a total travel of 1.5".... The captive spring arrangement and adjuster was shown previously, and the moving part weighs 53 g. for a total of 235 g.... That means that only 77% of the total energy ends up in the Hammer, the rest is absorbed by the O-ring on the guide when it comes to a halt before the hammer coasts the last bit to open the valve.... That is the price you pay for easier cocking and less Hammer bounce....

Bob
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 08:31:57 PM by rsterne »
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦 Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦

Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline PakProtector

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2015, 08:27:49 PM »
Cost is not the issue in bigger machines, the big ones cost next to nothing in here, but wher the hec do you put a machine that is 3 meters tall 4m long and over 2 wide and weighs over 4.5 metric tons?

LOL...I almost got my hands on a K&T No.3 vertical mill. 15 hp. Nearly new, hours-wise. Comically the first thing that slowed me down was it had only a feed option for the Z...then the 6800 lbs left wondering if I'd tilt my garage floor. The next pole barn is going to get a 10" thick floor wid plenty ov re-bar in it...:)
cheers,
Douglas
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Offline TPL

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Re: .257 cal Monocoque PCP
« Reply #79 on: December 12, 2015, 06:52:38 AM »
Recently I could of bought an old CNC-lathe in excellent condition very cheap but as I have a flat on third floor no place here either. Doesn't fit into my balcony nor I have electrical supply big enough.

Frustrating.
  • Tampere