Thank you to our advertisers!







Author Topic: Why I like penetration  (Read 351 times))

Offline JimD

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 780
  • yes
  • Real Name: Jim
Why I like penetration
« on: November 26, 2021, 05:43:33 PM »
I got my second squirrel with my P35.  I was not completely steady in my hold so I shot for and hit the front shoulder (I was nervous about a head shot).  The pellet went straight through both front shoulders and stopped under the hide on the off side.  The squirrel did not take a step.  Just fell.  It was a 25 caliber H&N FTT and muzzle energy is about 35 fpe.  The only other squirrel I've shot with this pretty new rifle I hit in the head and it went through.  With my little Prod I think I would still have got the squirrel but it wouldn't have gone through both shoulders.  My Prod is at about 17 fpe and will shoot through but not when I hit the shoulder.  This was a 15 ounce male. 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 05:46:44 PM by JimD »
  • USA, South Carolina, Lexington
Benjamin Marauder Pistol (Prod) tuned to 16-20 fpe
Sheridan Blue Streak, stock, about 14 fpe
Crosman 1377 shot as carbine and not modified about 5fpe
Air Venturi Avenger 25, current tune is 45-50 ft lbs
Artemis (aka Snow Peak) P35 25, 30-35 fpe

Offline Bicycleman

  • Just another
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 9320
  • Real Name: Mike
Re: Why I like penetration
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2021, 06:05:20 PM »
Jim, nice shooting.  When you have a shot where the pellet is stuck in the skin on the opposite side of the squirrel, that signals that all the energy was dumped in the squirrel.  I really like it when that happens.  Nobody suffers that way.
  • USA - Tennessee  --  Murfreesboro
Murfreesboro, Tennessee - Was Louisiana
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went. Will Rogers.
Faites-moi une faveur: Ne pissez pas sur la poignée de la pompe !                
Abbreviations / Acronyms ---> http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=51866.0;topicseen

Offline Bayman

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 3369
  • yes
  • Real Name: Ron
Re: Why I like penetration
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2021, 06:33:26 PM »
What was the distance on the shot? That's a lot energy and caliber for a squrl.
  • USA,
Hw30- .177- Vortek PG2, Tech sights
Hw30 Laminate- .177- Vortek PG2, Hawke
Airmax 2-7x32 AO. 
Hw30-.177 Vortek PG3 steel, Hawke Vantage IR 2-7x32 AO
Hw50- .177- Vortek PG3, Hawke 4X non A/O
Hw95- .177- Vortek PG2, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40
Hw97SE (Green 77 Laminate stock)-.177 Vortek PG3, Hawke 4-12x40 Airmax
P1- 0.20 now .177
R1- 0.20 - Vortek Pg4, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
R9 SE (Blue Laminate stock) - 0.020- Vortek PG4, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO

Offline JimD

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 780
  • yes
  • Real Name: Jim
Re: Why I like penetration
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2021, 08:17:25 PM »
It was about 25 yards away about 30 feet up in an oak tree.  It ran up the tree when I opened the window but stopped on a large limb. 

I agree a 25 is not necessary for a squirrel but my P35 is my quietest gun due to the way the shroud is designed and the hair curler modification I've done.  It's about 10 db quieter than my Prod. 

I would rather have the pellet barely exit than stop under the hide.  They bleed out quickly that way.  This one had a lot of blood in it's demolished front shoulders.  I don't like the idea of the pellet exiting with plenty of energy to potentially damage something but my first choice is for it to exit.  But going completely through the vitals with a .25 hole is pretty effective, even without the exit. 
  • USA, South Carolina, Lexington
Benjamin Marauder Pistol (Prod) tuned to 16-20 fpe
Sheridan Blue Streak, stock, about 14 fpe
Crosman 1377 shot as carbine and not modified about 5fpe
Air Venturi Avenger 25, current tune is 45-50 ft lbs
Artemis (aka Snow Peak) P35 25, 30-35 fpe

Offline PasadenaMike

  • Expensive lead dispenser operator
  • Marksman
  • ***
  • Posts: 484
  • yes
  • Real Name: Mike
Re: Why I like penetration
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2021, 09:17:49 PM »
 ???
  • United States, California

Offline ranchibi

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 7397
  • yes
  • Real Name: Randall
Re: Why I like penetration
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2021, 10:00:08 PM »
Very nice shot with your P35 and nice photo.
  • U.S. CA
JSAR Raptor .22 TJ slug barrel Discovery HD 5-20X50 SFIR FFP
RAW HM1000x LRT Chassis .22 Athlon Ares BTR 2.5-15x50 FFP MOA APLR3 Gen2
Beeman P17
PRod Discovery HD 4-20x50 FFP SFIR

Offline Firewalker

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 2671
  • USN from birth to the grave
  • Real Name: David
Re: Why I like penetration
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2021, 11:05:55 PM »
"That's what she said."

Really? Nobody?  :o
  • USA, MN, Mille Lacs
...Like i say " i dont mind a pellet picky gun as long as cphp are what it picks"

Offline Smaug2

  • Squirrels' Bane
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 2068
    • My Photography
  • Real Name: Jeremy
Re: Why I like penetration
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2021, 01:39:37 AM »
Nice shot.

It’s the INTERNAL bleeding that gets them. No need to exit. An exit on a nutter means a LOT of excess energy. Their skin is so rubbery!
  • midwest, USA
| .22 Air Arms S510 | .177 Air Arms TX200 (15 FPE, Motorhead tuned) | .177 Weihrauch HW30s (Vortek 7 FPE) | .177 Brocock Compatto (18 FPE) | .177 Crosman: 357| | .22 Crosman Diamondback | .177 Daisy PowerLine 1200 (CO2 BB) | .22 Hatsan AirTact | .22 Gamo Urban (broken) | .22 AirVenturi Avenger Bullpup

Offline JimD

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 780
  • yes
  • Real Name: Jim
Re: Why I like penetration
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2021, 10:23:37 AM »
Thanks guys for the complements.

This gun also shoots H&N slugs well.  As it's tuned, I only get enough velocity for them to expand if I use lighter ones (I've tested 28 and 36 grain, the former expanded, the latter did not).  I could use slugs for the few shots I take on squirrels (I can't often find them to buy) but if I use the lighter ones to get expansion, my penetration in wet paper was about half as much as the FTT.  For a shot like this, I worry a bit about the result.  For sure the squirrel dies, but does it die quickly or run a bit first?

I agree the internal bleeding and destruction of vital organs is what kills, not an exit hole.  But when I see the exit I know penetration was, in my opinion, "enough", some would say "too much".  I want a little margin in the penetration so that I consistently get clean quick kills.  When there are two outlets for the bleeding I think I have less blood shot meat.  Not a big deal but nicer when you eat them.

I could get more penetration with a heavier domed pellet but I don't do that because the trajectory would have more drop and because I don't really need more penetration than the light H&N FTT gives me.  They apparently will not always exit but I think they usually will which is what I am comfortable with.  When a pellet exits I want it to have low enough velocity it is not a risk of damaging things.   
  • USA, South Carolina, Lexington
Benjamin Marauder Pistol (Prod) tuned to 16-20 fpe
Sheridan Blue Streak, stock, about 14 fpe
Crosman 1377 shot as carbine and not modified about 5fpe
Air Venturi Avenger 25, current tune is 45-50 ft lbs
Artemis (aka Snow Peak) P35 25, 30-35 fpe

Offline Nomadic Pirate

  • Hog Seeker
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 18708
Re: Why I like penetration
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2021, 12:46:33 PM »
The High shoulder/low neck shot is extremely effective, that is what I use for mongoose and it never fails,.......much prefer it to the head shot.
  • North Shore Oahu Hawaii
Evanix REX Carbine             .357  200 FPE  #6.1
Evanix REX Mini-Carbine      .357 180 FPE  #5.2
Evanix REX Mini-Carbine II   .357 180 FPE  #5.1
Evanix RainStorm  II            .30   100 FPE  #9.5
Evanix RainStorm  II            .30    85  FPE  #9.3
Evanix Storm II Bushgun      .30    70  FPE  #7.0
Evanix MAX-ML                    .25    65  FPE  #10.0
Evanix RainStorm II Carbine  .25   55  FPE  #9.0
Evanix Storm II Model 70      .25   28  FPE  #9.9

Offline avator

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 34335
  • Happiness is a warm airgun... -Lennon Modded-
  • Real Name: Bill
Re: Why I like penetration
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2021, 01:24:51 PM »
IMO, the desired result is a dead squirrel... mission accomplished.
Good shootin'
  • From deep within the Rabbit Hole, Alabama

Offline JimD

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 780
  • yes
  • Real Name: Jim
Re: Why I like penetration
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2021, 03:01:45 PM »
Got another one a few minutes ago.  Fits my title so I'll just include it here.  The pictures are to illustrate the thing I find interesting about this one.  It was an 11 ounce female, sitting in the same tree and on the same limb as the last one.  So about 20-25 yards away and about 30 feet up.  Same P35, also with H&N FTT pellet.  This gun is shoots them about 875 fps so about 35 ft. lbs.

The pellet entered the lower near front leg, went into the body under that leg, and angled back coming out about midway down the body.  It exited, I did not recover the pellet.  The squirrel fell a second or two after being hit.  Nice clean kill but not the greatest shot placement.  But it worked.  Maybe I'll go back to head shots. 

Sorry the pictures are pretty bloody, I couldn't think of another way to illustrate the pellet path through the body - which I thought was interesting.

I have not tried this with expanding pellets or slugs but the squirrels die quickly with the simple domed pellets I am using so I don't see how an expanding projectile would help except they might not exit.  Could be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it. 
  • USA, South Carolina, Lexington
Benjamin Marauder Pistol (Prod) tuned to 16-20 fpe
Sheridan Blue Streak, stock, about 14 fpe
Crosman 1377 shot as carbine and not modified about 5fpe
Air Venturi Avenger 25, current tune is 45-50 ft lbs
Artemis (aka Snow Peak) P35 25, 30-35 fpe