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Author Topic: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade  (Read 688 times))

Offline caleb90

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2021, 07:08:53 PM »
Got it back together. Clean relube... Shot it 20 times to get excess moly paste out. Then got crony out, had a weird high of 784fps to a weird low of 699. Then it settled in between 765 to 755 fps over 20 more shots

Seems about right depending on your pellet choice. I get a little higher average velocity using the CPHP 14.3 grain pellets. These pellets can vary in size so I find some really tight and some really loose pellets in each tin. Those will stretch the ES out to 70-100 fps. It's pretty obvious on target also as these velocity extremes tend to be flyers (>1.5" off at 30'). If I only use my chronograph data for pellets that fit "just right" my Mod95 average velocity hangs in the 790fps range with ES~20 and SD<10. Open sight 10 shot groups are under a dime at 30' for the "good fit" pellets.

Was using crossman 14.3gr hollow points
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Offline SteveP-52

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2021, 09:45:17 PM »
Mine run 750-765 using H&N FTT 14.66gr so your numbers are pretty much on the money. The bit of dieseling is normal for a couple shots after reassembly
because no matter how hard you try, you'll always get a little in front of the seal.
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Offline Smaug2

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2021, 12:16:26 PM »
Now that you've worked on this gun, I'll be surprised if you like a new 125 as well. Yours is tuned now, after all.

If you haven't sold the 95 yet, do yourself a favor and hang onto it at least until the 125 is through break-in and honeymoon.

Last comment: You said you only need one air rifle, as you're mostly in to powder-burners. A LOT of us started that way. Got into springers as something simple, not to be taken too seriously. Got serious about them anyway. Then, tried PCPs and after getting a nice PCP shooting well, found we had no desire to go back to a rimfire.

a .22LR is better at 100-150 yards than a .22 PCP airgun. A bit better than a .25, even, in terms of ballistics and retained energy. What you lose in ballistics & retained energy with the air rifle, you get back in other areas.

You said you don't want to get into high-dollar PCPs, just a simple break-barrel until this ammo situation is back in line. PB ammo is not likely to get cheaper again. More available? Eventually.

PCP air rifle vs. .22 rimfire:

Power & terminal ballistics: advantage rimfire
Legal Regulation: advantage air rifle
Noise: advantage air rifle
Accuracy: Tie!

Remember that while a PCP air rifle is more expensive than a PB, you're not paying for propellant or cases each time. You pay up front for a more complex gun and a means to charge it, then, rarely after that.

Consider something like an adjustable power .25 cal PCP air rifle, and put aside the prejudice that it's not worth the money because it's "only" an air rifle. Give it an honest try. Heck, find someone local through here to let you shoot his. I bet you'll be amazed at how fun it is, and how different it is from springers and PBs.

With adjustable power, level, you can dial it down to 400 fps for plinking in the basement or back yard to 950 fps for drilling trash pandas in your garbage. If I could only have two airguns, one would be my 7 FPE HW30s in .177 for plinking, target shooting and removing pest birds from the back yard and the other would be my (.22 cal adjustable power) Air Arms S510 FAC for hunting and pesting.

I happily sold about 5 or 8 powderburners when I really got hooked on airguns, and haven't shot them at all in the past 5+ years.
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| .22 Air Arms S510 | .177 Air Arms TX200 (15 FPE, Motorhead tuned) | .177 Weihrauch HW30s (Vortek 7 FPE) | .177 Brocock Compatto (18 FPE) | .177 Crosman: 357| | .22 Crosman Diamondback | .177 Daisy PowerLine 1200 (CO2 BB) | .22 Hatsan AirTact | .22 Gamo Urban (broken) | .22 AirVenturi Avenger Bullpup

Offline SteveP-52

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2021, 03:39:18 PM »
Only real differences between the 2 is the 125 has a bigger compression chamber, seal and more recoil. Oh, it's longer, a bit heavier, gonna shoot pellets faster,
but at the end of the day, it's still just a bigger 95...lol.

I had the Walther Talon Magnum version of it in .22 for awhile. Harder to cock, just about 24fpe with JSB 18.1gr pellets and would shoot 3/4" groups at 30 yards if I did my part
and while it definitely took getting used to, if the man shoots PB's regular, the 125 should end up being easy enough for him.
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Offline Ilimakko

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2021, 09:17:38 AM »
Talon Hunter was the .177 cal version. The .22 and .25 cals were Falcon Hunters. I have the latter in .22 cal. Presently it puts out 35 - 37 J / 26 - 27 fpe, but I haven't even chronoed most reasonable pellets with it yet.

While being a H125 in most regards, the Walther Falcon Hunter is truely different in others, as the late Whitefang also positively noted. I'll do a piece on that here, when the time is right.
LGV Master Ultra .22 cal
D48 .22 cal
350 Mag .25 cal
H135 .25 cal
WFH .22 cal
Fenix 400 .22 cal
G1250 .22 cal
D25 .177 cal (c. 1960)
BSF S54 Match .177 cal (c. 1965)
E-C2 5.4 mm (c. 1920)
FX T12 .22 cal

Offline SteveP-52

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2021, 09:42:31 AM »
From Walther they were. While not sure when the change happened, they were suddenly being made by Hatsan Arms in Turkey and just called the Walther Talon Magnum and not long after,
Hatsan came out with their 125 series rifles which were basically rebranded versions of the rifle with minor cosmetic changes.

Same basic idea with any number of rifles. Hatsan got contracted to build rifles for whichever company and not long after, came out with their own versions of them with enough minor
changes that they weren't breaking any patents or copyrights...lol. I can easily name any number just from the now defunct UK Webley rifles after Hatsan got contracted to build rifles
for Highland Outdoors Group, the new owners of the Webley & Scott name after they bought the rights to the name and all their assets in 2006.
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Offline Ilimakko

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2021, 01:18:24 PM »
It is funny to find peculiar features in Hatsans that are directly derived from Webleys, like the perforated, bumpy plastic spring guide. Of course, there'd be no H125 or H135, if it weren't for the Patriot.

One thing I haven't been able to verify is, did Hatsan the shotgun company ever make airguns before 2006 and the Webley deal. I've yet to see a Hatsan springer from before that. At the very least the Hatsan airgun catalog got a major overhaul, and sales / distribution boost, at that point.
LGV Master Ultra .22 cal
D48 .22 cal
350 Mag .25 cal
H135 .25 cal
WFH .22 cal
Fenix 400 .22 cal
G1250 .22 cal
D25 .177 cal (c. 1960)
BSF S54 Match .177 cal (c. 1965)
E-C2 5.4 mm (c. 1920)
FX T12 .22 cal

Offline SteveP-52

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2021, 01:46:22 PM »
Webley & Scott filed for Receivership in 2005. When the dust settled, a company called The Highland Outdoor Group, bought everything to do with them and
at some point in there, closed at least the air gun side of things and Hatsan got their deal to make Webley air guns. I haven't found an exact date Hatsan started
production of their own branded guns or when they got the deal with Walther that spawned the 125's, but here's a few:

-Walther Talon, which spawned those 125's
-Patriot, which spawned the Hatsan 135
-Tomahawk, which spawned at least the Model 95. I have both and every part, stocks included, is interchangeable. I also have an 87QE which easily drops right into the 95 stock.
-Valuemax aka VMX and Spector, which spawned any number of their lesser guns including the Striker, 1000X and 1000S, Edge. Again, I've owned all or still do all of them and all
the parts are interchangeable although things did change a bit inside when they made the switch from 2 piece cocking arms to the 1 piece they use today. All my Valuemax .20's
are older ones with those 2 piece cocking arms and how I know the internals, while only minor changes, did change.

Not a clue who's making most of those today since no one in the US even sells Webley air rifles anymore. There is a brand new plant in India now making at least
the Tomahawk rifles, but as far as I can find, they're only selling them in India and so far only making the Tomahawk in .177: https://webleyscott.in/
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Offline 19Sheridan57

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2021, 07:34:01 AM »
   Glad to hear it is back together & shooting so well !!
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Offline Ilimakko

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2021, 10:55:55 AM »
Thanks Steve, for the production outline!
LGV Master Ultra .22 cal
D48 .22 cal
350 Mag .25 cal
H135 .25 cal
WFH .22 cal
Fenix 400 .22 cal
G1250 .22 cal
D25 .177 cal (c. 1960)
BSF S54 Match .177 cal (c. 1965)
E-C2 5.4 mm (c. 1920)
FX T12 .22 cal

Offline Yogi

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2021, 02:04:31 PM »
According to these links, Hatsan started manufacturing airguns in 1976.

https://www.airgundepot.com/hatsan-airguns.html

https://www.edgarbrothers.com/brands-for-ssd/hatsan/

It all started with a dart gun.

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HW 50S, .177, .20, and .22

Offline caleb90

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2021, 10:44:22 AM »
Now that you've worked on this gun, I'll be surprised if you like a new 125 as well. Yours is tuned now, after all.

If you haven't sold the 95 yet, do yourself a favor and hang onto it at least until the 125 is through break-in and honeymoon.

Last comment: You said you only need one air rifle, as you're mostly in to powder-burners. A LOT of us started that way. Got into springers as something simple, not to be taken too seriously. Got serious about them anyway. Then, tried PCPs and after getting a nice PCP shooting well, found we had no desire to go back to a rimfire.

a .22LR is better at 100-150 yards than a .22 PCP airgun. A bit better than a .25, even, in terms of ballistics and retained energy. What you lose in ballistics & retained energy with the air rifle, you get back in other areas.

You said you don't want to get into high-dollar PCPs, just a simple break-barrel until this ammo situation is back in line. PB ammo is not likely to get cheaper again. More available? Eventually.

PCP air rifle vs. .22 rimfire:

Power & terminal ballistics: advantage rimfire
Legal Regulation: advantage air rifle
Noise: advantage air rifle
Accuracy: Tie!

Remember that while a PCP air rifle is more expensive than a PB, you're not paying for propellant or cases each time. You pay up front for a more complex gun and a means to charge it, then, rarely after that.

Consider something like an adjustable power .25 cal PCP air rifle, and put aside the prejudice that it's not worth the money because it's "only" an air rifle. Give it an honest try. Heck, find someone local through here to let you shoot his. I bet you'll be amazed at how fun it is, and how different it is from springers and PBs.

With adjustable power, level, you can dial it down to 400 fps for plinking in the basement or back yard to 950 fps for drilling trash pandas in your garbage. If I could only have two airguns, one would be my 7 FPE HW30s in .177 for plinking, target shooting and removing pest birds from the back yard and the other would be my (.22 cal adjustable power) Air Arms S510 FAC for hunting and pesting.

I happily sold about 5 or 8 powderburners when I really got hooked on airguns, and haven't shot them at all in the past 5+ years.

To each there own, but air rifles lack alot of what i enjoy about shooting. The noise the smell and the down range energy. I reload most my own ammo and with thousands invested into that alone and my love for reloading. I could never give it up, the air rifle is fun but about about 25 shots i get bored with them. I dont knock you guys that are big time into them
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Offline Ilimakko

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2021, 11:01:49 AM »
I have seen the links Yogi posted, but remain unconvinced. Hatsan the gun company started in 1976 (I think AoA are going off this). They were known for their shotguns, which doesn't mean they didn't make airguns, as well. But I have never seen a Hatsan springer that had a manufacturing date from before 2006. Guns from 2006 on up, and discussions of them, can be found all the time. First there were none, then there are plenty, hmmm.

Now, it's possible that Hatsan didn't export the airguns, unlike the shotguns, for three decades, but it isn't likely. It is also possible that they made only low-powered airguns for decades, until the Webley deal, with webley parts AND people (at first) showing them how to make hunting-capable airguns. And they started with a bang, exporting Webley-type, powerful breakbarrels all over the world.

Still, the most likely scenario based on the evidence so far is that Hatsan didn't do any serious airgun business, if any, until the Webley deal. Too bad we can't ask Hatsan, as they have a policy to direct any queries to the local importers, who know zilch of "ancient history", as far as the retail environment is concerned. 
LGV Master Ultra .22 cal
D48 .22 cal
350 Mag .25 cal
H135 .25 cal
WFH .22 cal
Fenix 400 .22 cal
G1250 .22 cal
D25 .177 cal (c. 1960)
BSF S54 Match .177 cal (c. 1965)
E-C2 5.4 mm (c. 1920)
FX T12 .22 cal

Offline Ilimakko

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2021, 11:15:04 AM »

To each there own, but air rifles lack alot of what i enjoy about shooting. The noise the smell and the down range energy.

To each their own indeed, and I respect your POV. Funny though - coming from an archery background, I find airguns noisy and smelly, for not a lot of bang for the buck, honestly. I can shoot a broadhead arrow through a deer thorax at 25 yards with my trad bows, making no noise and zero smell (apart from personal emissions). Airguns can't do any of that, at least not the kind I'm interested in. But they are still way, way more silent than firearms. Also, infinitely more affordable to shoot, with way smaller danger zones around, which means many more opportunities to shoot. They are handy, in many ways.

I have shot my limited share of (small-caliber) PB's, and couldn't care less to have more of it. Just the idea of going to a dedicated shooting range "to enjoy myself", hearing protection on etc., is a repellant to me.
LGV Master Ultra .22 cal
D48 .22 cal
350 Mag .25 cal
H135 .25 cal
WFH .22 cal
Fenix 400 .22 cal
G1250 .22 cal
D25 .177 cal (c. 1960)
BSF S54 Match .177 cal (c. 1965)
E-C2 5.4 mm (c. 1920)
FX T12 .22 cal

Offline caleb90

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2021, 11:34:27 AM »
I live in the middle of no where. My shooting range is in my back yard. I own 13acres with 500+ state land directly behind. I also enjoy shooting bow and bowhunting.
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Offline Ilimakko

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Re: Mod 95 low velocity, might be time to upgrade
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2021, 07:32:09 AM »
Sweet!
LGV Master Ultra .22 cal
D48 .22 cal
350 Mag .25 cal
H135 .25 cal
WFH .22 cal
Fenix 400 .22 cal
G1250 .22 cal
D25 .177 cal (c. 1960)
BSF S54 Match .177 cal (c. 1965)
E-C2 5.4 mm (c. 1920)
FX T12 .22 cal