GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: JoninMA on November 13, 2021, 09:14:02 AM
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Sheridan's are almost unanimously the gold standard for vintage American pumpers. The real debate is who takes the Silver? My vote goes to Kessler. It's different...which I like. Obviously there's a heavy Crosman influence, but it just feels more refined than the 101. Slimmer profile, and I much prefer the simple peep site over the Crosman design which has too small of a hole and makes acquiring a moving target much more difficult. When they're properly resealed they have plenty of power. My standard model spits out RWS Superpoints in the 680-690 fps neighborhood, while my Junior stock model tops out around 600.
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Crosman 760. It's a winner based on popularity and shear numbers sold. Everyone here that has owned a 760 please raise your hand. Enough said. 😁
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Benjamin or Sheridan to me is a coin toss as to which is the "Best!" I enjoy both! ;) Still like that old "Tootsie Roll" look a little better! 8) dave
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A contrary view - never owned a 760. Nor any desired. ;D
Owned a Sears variation of a Crosman 1400 some 60 years ago. Good rifle - not a Sheridan but not nearly as expensive nor soldering assembly.
(Definitely like the Benjamin tootsie roll,)
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I’ve never handled a Kessler so I make no comparisons. I love the Crosman model 1400. Not as powerful as a Benji or a Dan. Lighter, more compact, and arguably sturdier my 1400’s make better than 13 fpe with modern pellets. My second model is a tack driver at thirty yards and my first model is only slightly inferior. The triggers on these fifty year old air rifles are light and crisp at my maximum of eight pumps. I think they are actually easier to hang a scope on than the Benji’s and Dans. Aesthetically, I like that the forearm and the stock on the Crosmans were cut from one piece of wood. Never liked the miss matched wood on some Benjis.
That said, the iron sights are terrible, the trigger gets stiffer the more you pump, and power is limited.
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Benjamin... hands down in my opinion. 31X or 34X.
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I agree on 2nd place Kessler. Plenty of power. Like the peep sight. Solid build (no plastic) but heavier than a 1400 & my late 50’s BS. Trigger is worse than the BS but better than 1400 at same FtLbs, IMO.
I have plenty of 5mm pellets on the shelf but could run to walmart in an emergency & keep feeding the Kessler.
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Nice looking Kessler Model A variant 2!! :D
What is the serial number on the pump linkage?
I'd like to add it to my Kessler registry of serials.
I second the opinion regarding Kessler. A really well built air rifle.
More people would agree that the Kessler is a great rifle if they ever shot one.
Unfortunately most have never even handled one.
The Kessler story is quite interesting.
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here is pic of kessler pump link & number
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Thanks for the serial number!!
I have about 25 Kessler serials numbers to try and
use for the timeline.
the lowest serial number so far is 1462 which is your serial number.
The highest is 57692 on one of my Kesslers.
The Model A variant 1 appear to not have a serial number so it appears serial numbering started with the
Model A variant 2.
Judging from the highest serial number, and assuming Kessler numbered them consecutively, Then they made quite a few Kesslers before
they went Bankrupt. Serial numbers were required for Kesslers warranty.
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Anyone who can reseal a Kessler, or a Rochester??
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when I did mine I used modern components … TimMac supplied an “O” ring piston. for the valve I used modified crosman endseals inside & and an “O” to replace the copper + leather valve gasket/shim material. A little trial & error to get everything aligned & sealed.
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Tim Schmidt out of Connecticut was my go to guy for work. He could reseal anything, did my Kessler's for me, as well as my Rochester's among many others using delrin. He stopped working on airguns probably 5 years ago. A real shame, his custom Crosman 160's, 180's, etc., were things of beauty.
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Daisy crosman benjamin...toss up. Im not sure Sheridan takes gold.
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If it's not a C series Sheridan it's going to be a Benjamin 34x.
Especially the later checkered stock examples.
I quite enjoy my 1965 140, but it just isn't in the same class as my blue streak or the '81 342 I had.
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No surprise that the Benjamin gets a lot of votes as second to the Sheridan. The Sheridan Streaks are, after all, refined copies of the Benjamin 317/312.
I would have to suggest the Crosman 108 and it's plainer little brother, the 110. I have one of each, they are both good shooters, very well made. Somewhat scarce but not so much as a Kessler. I would love to get my hands on a Kessler. So few were made that most people today have never seen one, me included.
The Crosman 140/1400 is also a candidate. Accurate and hard hitting, very popular in their day. I've never much cared for the valve, with the stiffening trigger pull with increased pressure.
I also don't much care for any of the two-piece, die-cast receiver guns, starting with the 760. Alright for their low-cost niche I suppose, but nowhere near the quality of the older wood and steel (or brass) guns.
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Crosman 760. It's a winner based on popularity and shear numbers sold. Everyone here that has owned a 760 please raise your hand. Enough said. 😁
The 760 is a giant killer, or was advertised as such. ;)
I agree on Sheridan 1st and - I would have to vote either Crosman 140 or 1400 or 102 or... :-\
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Hard for me not to believe that the Crosman 108 was not the second best American pumper ever made below the Supergrade? Everything was solid brass and the dual sights were over the top! Mine still holds air forever.
(https://i.imgur.com/tBalTde.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qpb2ayh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0H5BZQP.jpg)
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Hard for me not to believe that the Crosman 108 was not the second best pumper ever made below the Supergrade? Everything was solid brass and the dual sights were over the top! Mine still holds air forever.
Well if I ever get a 108 I might change my mind. I think the best pump airgun for me has to be one of the ones I have. I don't have a Supergrade, Kessler, or a Rochester either.
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In the beginning Sheridan was the gold standard but after its Supergrades were too expensive for the American market they didn’t innovate, they copied the successful Benjamin rifle? The valving system is an exact copy. They copied the soldering of the barrel on the tube. Something Crosman I think wisely never did. Yes the quality of manufacturing was excellent but the rifle was basically a dressed up copy. Not sure I would call that the Gold Standard?
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No surprise that the Benjamin gets a lot of votes as second to the Sheridan. The Sheridan Streaks are, after all, refined copies of the Benjamin 317/312.
I also don't much care for any of the two-piece, die-cast receiver guns, starting with the 760. Alright for their low-cost niche I suppose, but nowhere near the quality of the older wood and steel (or brass) guns.
Fighting words if I ever read them! Lol.
If you add in availability as one of the things that matters most, then special guns like the Kessler and 108 get bumped down some. What does it matter if you'll never have it to enjoy?
I love my Streak, my early Crosman 760's and pretty much all of the rest of them. (Except for the Quest 1000X. That thang is just terrible. Horrible trigger and way too much drama to shoot.)
Ride on,
J~
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I have a Rochester (Former Owner DT Fletcher), Dont have a Kessler, would like to find ne that is in good working order. Both of these models are not an easy reseal like thier cousins made by Crosman, it can be done but again not easy.
I have Crosman 101's and a 102 and would like to say the Crosman 108 in outward appearance looks like a Kessler which looks like a Crosman 140 or 1400 so I think any of the them make a good choice for second behind the Sheridan.
As for my second choise I like the Smith and Wesson Model 77A classic look and another air rifle that as legend goes was designed by former Crosman employees for the then newly created S&W Air Rifle Division.
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In the beginning Sheridan was the gold standard but after its Supergrades were too expensive for the American market they didn’t innovate, they copied the successful Benjamin rifle? The valving system is an exact copy. They copied the soldering of the barrel on the tube. Something Crosman I think wisely never did. Yes the quality of manufacturing was excellent but the rifle was basically a dressed up copy. Not sure I would call that the Gold Standard?
I think they were still the gold standard.
When Crosman introduced the 760 they pretty much became all about inexpensive youth guns, and while Benjamin guns were great it took them awhile to introduce a more substantial feeling more adult friendly gun.
I believe Sheridan showed Benjamin that a more adult friendly size was a good idea, I love the guns as they were but the 14x definitely feels more solid.
If Sheridan didn't exist Benjamin rifles would have stayed pretty small.
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This could get UGLY!
https://youtu.be/Oci1CuCht7E
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this is why we need these debates. they help us prioritize our desires & wants … turn them into “NEEDs” … that fuel our addiction & provide a measure of purpose and satisfaction.
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The S & W 77a rifles are nice, but like some of the others, you don't see them very often. I have only one, now. You had to pump them 12+ times to get the fps of 8 pumps on a Sheridan, too.
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The 77A is like my ex; looks great but there's too much going on and it's not worth the effort! The discussion made me wonder what exactly is going on with Crosman and the Sheridan name? After they discontinued the .20 pump guns they came out with that "Superstreak" springer, then the lever action bb gun, and now the reissued steel breech Sheridan 2260. Fade to oblivion I suppose. Sad
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The 77A is like my ex; looks great but there's too much going on and it's not worth the effort! The discussion made me wonder what exactly is going on with Crosman and the Sheridan name? After they discontinued the .20 pump guns they came out with that "Superstreak" springer, then the lever action bb gun, and now the reissued steel breech Sheridan 2260. Fade to oblivion I suppose. Sad
Don't forget a co2 replica of the Remington new model, and the fact that the .20 Cal ammo is being sold under the Benjamin name for some strange reason.
What's gon is the folks at Crosman are morons.
They don't know to let the once great Sheridan name die a peaceful death.
If they're not going to make a brass and walnut pumper in .20 caliber they have no business owning the Sheridan name and should let it die in peace or sell it to someone who will do right by it.
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Crosman is too busy “ re-naming “ the same air rifles over & over.
They know that the name “ Sheridan “ will help them sell some air rifles due to its “ historical “ name & reputation.
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For a bit I was hoping Crosman would reserve the Sheridan name for a line of top quality products; gorgeous walnut stocks, Rekord quality triggers, Air Arms quality blueing, etc.. But that isn't what Crosman is about. They aren't capable of it and are more concerned about the airgunners of Wally World.
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The 392 should carry the Sheridan label, it is a direct descendent. (Not a crummy little kid's BB gun.) The last of their kind, it will be a shame to see them go.
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Crosman 101 does it for me.
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The 392 should carry the Sheridan label, it is a direct descendent. (Not a crummy little kid's BB gun.) The last of their kind, it will be a shame to see them go.
Not a .22, especially not the current thing with black synthetic stock.
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I don't have any experience with a Crosman 101 , but they do look pretty nice !
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/12/crosman-101-multi-pump-pneumatic/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/12/crosman-101-multi-pump-pneumatic/)
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I consider the 101 as the poor man's SuperGrade.... ;)
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Just a few years ago, you could find those on sale pretty often. I haven't seen one in awhile. Wonder how many were made ?
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I got both of mine for around $100 each some time back.. can't remember exactly.
Sent one to Longhunter for a repaint and refresh and did thee other one myself.
Mine are the '37 - '41 vintage as far as I know. They are among the last guns I would ever let go.
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I picked up a Project 101 to rebuild and help keep my (little) sanity this winter.
I was surprised at the size of it.
Look and feel of a full sized rifle. It is clear they were not a "toy".
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I picked up a Project 101 to rebuild and help keep my (little) sanity this winter.
I was surprised at the size of it.
Look and feel of a full sized rifle. It is clear they were not a "toy".
Were sold in the Depression as a hunting rifle