GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => American/U.S. Air Gun Gates => Topic started by: stevemag on August 11, 2019, 12:42:14 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd9VISPYfa8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd9VISPYfa8)
this looks very interesting. Has anyone heard anything about it? looks like it isn't in the USA , i also assume its not made in USA but i didnt know where to post this...
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First i’ve Heard of it.... nice looking underlever though. Seems accurate to boot.
Thanks for posting on it... i’ll Be watching for more on this one!
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It looks good and the price is amazingly low. From doing a little surfing it appears to be only available in the UK. It may be connected to Crosman as I believe they license the Remington name in the US.
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Looks to me like a Chinese or Turkish copy of a HW97KT with a B19 derived trigger.
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Very interesting... thanks for sharing!
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I just sent remington an email asking about it. although they make no mention of any air rifles on their site. we shall see.
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i couldn't find any under levers that had a lever release in the trigger guard.
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think i found it... tech force 87
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mPMCG5l6I0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mPMCG5l6I0)
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Tech Force... there is a name I haven't heard in a while.
They were SAG guns, also under the names Norica & Mendoza.
Think they had a version of my QB58 and Beeman AR2078.
Maybe this is a QB36 with a thumbhole stock.
http://www.airrifle-china.com/product/21.html (http://www.airrifle-china.com/product/21.html)
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this looks more like it, hammerli hunter force 900...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaP6O3z8h_o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaP6O3z8h_o)
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Nope...
Talked to a friend in the UK
Venomman....says it is not a rebate on the tech force...
Have not held one yet so we shall see.
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i have two tech force 99s. they look kinda' like a 97 and the anti bear trap release is behind the trigger inside the trigger guard and the trigger safety lever is in front of the trigger. the trigger guard is a little longer than most.
sorry, my caps key is broke. need a new key board.
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Warhawk is a xs38...same as our su46
Saber is a remmington express
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http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5 (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5)
Do you know this to be a fact because this has the under lever release on the back of the piston tube though?
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I trust Lyn...he is in the UK and has been inside them already...
The beartrap may have been moved but the guts are the same from what I've been told.
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darren, it doesn't even look close to a 46 or leverage. but the trigger mechanism on a 46 and a tf99 are similar.
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Tech Force... there is a name I haven't heard in a while.
They were SAG guns, also under the names Norica & Mendoza.
Think they had a version of my QB58 and Beeman AR2078.
Maybe this is a QB36 with a thumbhole stock.
http://www.airrifle-china.com/product/21.html (http://www.airrifle-china.com/product/21.html)
"Norica & Mendoza" weren't Spanish offerings?
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Heard from Remington. They said to contact Crosman. ...
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I'm wondering what Crosman will say about the Remington War Hawk. What a mysterious Rifle it is.
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My bet would be S.A.G. I had a TF87 with the copy of the Norica 2 stage trigger. A nice gun but had to thin out the collection.
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I would be really interested in hearing what Crosman has to say about it.
Also would love to know if they are going to be available here in the U.S.A
Thanks
Ray
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It looks like Crosman is shrouding itself in silence about the Remington War Hawk to Steve.
This Gun is getting more and more mysterious.
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This reminds me of a few years back when Crosman dangled the underlever in front of us that looked alot like a TX if memory serves me well.
And this new warhawk has more than a passing resemblance to a HW97. Interesting, very interesting.
If Remington is listening, they might want to offer this new springer to us here in the states. :)
Thanks
Ray
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Well we all can only wait and see. Hopefully they reading up on here too, that might swing some plans from them in action to make it available. It is an interesting Rifle, but that might be a little premature without any real deeply performed Reviews here stateside or any other well known quality reviewer have touched it yet, but so far what I could see in videos it is not to shabby. Don't have any spring piston gun in my arsenal and neither an underlever either.
So that would hit the spot for the future if it turns out to be a good Rifle.
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Spoke to Crosman today. The story is...they took over remingtons Airgun division 2 years ago, the Warhawk was already part of remingtons line, it has nothing to do with Crosman. I suggested that they need to sell a rifle like that and she said she would pass the info along.
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Hello, Steve thank you so much for keeping us informed about the Remington Warhawk, and yes I agree, they need to sell this one here in the US too, it is really a nice looking Rifle. Performance wise so far what I have seen not bad either. So would be only left when they selling it here for how much. Sometimes I wonder why this marketing guys doing something like that and selling it only abroad only. I think they have the bigger market right here in front of their Door.
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considering they sell 35 or so different break barrels you'd thing they would have room for underlevers in their line, i guess they dont think the demand is there, maybe we need to let them know if they build it, we will come.
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Well let's do it then, so how we do it let them know? Just write them an e-mail individually? Or more like a community addressed interest pronouncement? I don't know what would have the most impact.
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I am in... What would be best?
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Well my thought is, if everyone single sends them an mail and announce that they would like to buy one, I think this will be easily overlooked, or misplaced or not even get to the right person.
So but if we like for an example would get a survey in and address this with the GTA community (if it is lawfully allowed), we would have to ask the Moderators here, that this would give the whole cause a lot more impact. At least that's what I think about it.
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Thanks Steve for finding out so much info for us.
Hard to believe that "somebody" at Crosman marketing would not have thought it was a good idea to try and sell a underlever here in the U.S.A. that oddly enough looks like one of the most coveted ,ahem "german" springers of all time.
Word of the day, can you say DROPPED THE BALL :)
Thanks
Ray
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When I called them, she had to google it. She had never heard of it before. I’m pretty sure there has to be someone here on GTA who has an ear at Crosman. We just need to figure out who....
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I'm for sure not the ear for Crosman, have no connection to them, except I have a few guns from them, but that's about it. So I guess we have to ask who it will be?
Would be nice to find out and then we can address any other things pretenting Crosman address faster and directly.
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The Stoeger Under Lever looks sort-a like the Remington ( maybe not )
https://usa.stoegerairguns.com/s6000-a-underlever-airgun
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Crosman had a log-in here on GTA. Actually used to participate.
Let's see if I can find it.
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Robert, I was looking at that gun too and even posted once about here.
And I don't remember who came up with, that these are clones of the Gamo CX-20 or CX-30 or something like that.
This Stoeger has a pop-up breech loader like the HW 57. But I don't know much more about them, I think one member here has one of them Stoeger F-40 I seen that and wrote him a PM in about January and he said he will give me a heads up about this gun when the weather was getting warmer, but so far I haven't heard anything yet back.
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Crosman had a log-in here on GTA. Actually used to participate.
Let's see if I can find it.
Hey Scott that would be cool, if we all could address this to them directly.
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I’m pretty sure there has to be someone here on GTA who has an ear at Crosman. We just need to figure out who....
Crosman had a log-in here on GTA. Actually used to participate.
Let's see if I can find it.
There’s a member named John who goes by “Crosman Engineer”. I believe he works for Crosman, I’ve seen him comment in other posts about passing information and recommendations on to different departments and groups within the company.
I’m not sure if he’s a private member (here for the same reason we all are... love of air guns) or if he is allowed to officially represent the company.
I seem to remember another member a couple few years ago that DID seem to be an official company rep account but I can’t remember the screen name or the last time I saw a post from it.
Hope this helps,
Blue
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There’s a member named John who goes by “Crosman Engineer”. I believe he works for Crosman, I’ve seen him comment in other posts about passing information and recommendations on to different departments and groups within the company.
I’m not sure if he’s a private member (here for the same reason we all are... love of air guns) or if he is allowed to officially represent the company.
I seem to remember another member a couple few years ago that DID seem to be an official company rep account but I can’t remember the screen name or the last time I saw a post from it.
Hope this helps,
Blue
You and I are on the same page Blue... unfortunately I am suffering from CRS. ::)
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way to go Blue! i just sent John a link to this thread and asked him to join this conversation.
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That's a great idea, Blue, Steve and Scott. Hopefully that will move some rocks up there at Crosman.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Chip Honeycutt have alot to say around here when he was with Crosman?
I'm thinking I read where he left Crosman for a different job. But I do believe he used to frequent here quite often.
Would be nice to have a "inside" guy who could give us some true scoops about new stuff.
Wishful thinking I know, but we can dream.
Thanks
Ray
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I don't know Ray, I joined in 2016 maybe 2017, so that must have been before my time here, so I have no insight if that was going on and with whom. But you are right that would be great if we would have an ear on all that new stuff they plan to get out.
For a while there was a member here I think his Handle was
Crosman Engineer he was active here a lot while the waiting and discussion with the Fortitude Gen. 2 was running up hot here.
Haven't seen much and heard much about him no more after a while and in a long while.
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All I am a Product Design Engineer at Crosman. I am not here in an official capacity but more out of my love of airguns. Legal advised me that it had to be clear I was an employee hence my screen name.
Chip used to post frequently and was great. We were sad to see him go.
As for the gun in question I don't know much about it. I will ask the product manager about it and see what they have to say. I will share this post with them.
Thanks,
John
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THANK YOU JOHN!!!!
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now we need to make some sort of survey to let crosman know that we are interested.
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https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=161874.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=161874.0)
DONE!
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Survey is done, voted for YES.
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All I am a Product Design Engineer at Crosman. I am not here in an official capacity but more out of my love of airguns. Legal advised me that it had to be clear I was an employee hence my screen name.
Chip used to post frequently and was great. We were sad to see him go.
As for the gun in question I don't know much about it. I will ask the product manager about it and see what they have to say. I will share this post with them.
Thanks,
John
Thank you John, for helping with this task and that you put a word out in Crosman.
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I don't believe that Crosman will show much interest .
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Well I think we can try at least.
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I don't believe that Crosman will show much interest .
But they already have... just across the pond not here in the 'states.
That is what troubles me.
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It might be a 12FPE gun. Would you all be ok with that?
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Crosman isn't keen to bring us a serious piston rifle. Their primary customer base seems to beentry level airgunners that hunt primarily with firearms. So, we get the sales gimmicks on the piston side, and some decent PCP hunting rifles that would otherwise require a license across the pond.
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It might be a 12FPE gun. Would you all be ok with that?
Short answer... HECK YEAH!
Long answer: There are many sub 12 fpe guns that are lights out accurate.
If Crosman with all their technology today would produce a gun remotely as accurate to the stuff that was out 30 years ago from Germany, ... you would make a killing.
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It might be a 12FPE gun. Would you all be ok with that?
I would be in for it at 12fpe for sure.
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12 ft. lbs. would be very much allright, no problem here. I would be in for one.
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we cant go 15-16fpe ? since were making a list, gas ram?
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Thank you John for chiming in. And for any help you can direct our way.
And YES, 12 ft/lb in .177 would be great with me :)
Believe it or not, not all of us desire mega FPS airguns.
Besides, those boys across the pond don't seem to have any trouble at all taking squirrels with 12 ft/lbs.
We all could learn a thing or two from them.
It's not really about power, but shot placement.
Thanks
Ray
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A cottontail can't tell the difference between 12 and 20 fpe if you hit it in the vitals. 12 fpe kits just make it easier to place the shot. I put one in my 34 for that reason.
If I had a remington warhawk and it was oversprung for US market the first thing I would do is cut a coil off the spring. *(&^ with the warranty!
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For what its worth here, crosman did experiment with a TX clone years ago called the MAV77 but it never made in into production for whatever reason. Chip Hunnicut is now working at Sig Sauer in the PB section.
I would also be interested in a under lever at 12 fpe for sure.
John, please keep us updated on your bosses response to bringing the under lever to the US.
Mike
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All - I will do what I can. After I type this reply I am going to shoot a link ot this over to the PM of spring guns to let them take a look at it.
Breakbarrels are a high volume sku at Walmart. Most of what we see is lower cost and higher velocity is what sells. For informed airgun folks it is all about FPE. I agree that our European friends have no issues with taking game at 12FPE. As you have pointed out less energy can give you better accuracy and when it counts we all want accuracy.
Thanks guys for all of your feedback it is appreciated. Also feel free to PM me when there is a thread you would like me to chime in on. I have 3 kids 4 and under and work keeps me busy so I don't have much time to read the forums. However if you PM me with a link to the topic of interest I usually can take a look.
John
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I googled that MAV77. Looks like a B40 to me.
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I googled that MAV77. Looks like a B40 to me.
Because that's what it was.
This warhawk, being so similar to the HW97, makes sense as the remjngton express was awefully similar to an R9. I bet this warhawk has a lot more potential, being a fixed barrel.
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Just looking at the trigger and receiver if I were to bet money I'd say the Warhawk is a dolled up TF 99 maybe 87. Never had an 87 buy I have two 99's.
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I like the dolled up version :)
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I googled that MAV77. Looks like a B40 to me.
Yep both are TX clones but only the Bam40 made it into production and I have both a TX and B40 in .177. Both have a TL 22mm kit in them and shoot equally as well. The only difference is the B40 is not quite as good in the finish department but every bit as accurate.
Mike
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The sad truth is it's unlikely to come to the states. Even in this thread, there's just the few of us drooling over this gun.
To bring us a quality underlever, they'd be hard pressed to do it "built in USA" even of foreign parts and give it to us at the same price point as the leaders in that niche, and turn a profit as well as the nitro-gimmicks and the PCP's.
The market for quality guns like this is pretty well saturated, not many are willing to pay good money for chinese parts assembled in USA and the fixed barrel crowd is well aware what Built in USA means.
I am still waiting for just a bare bones breakbarrel made from scratch in the USA, even with the minimum parts they are allowed to call made in USA, from Crosman.
If Sig Sauer can do it with no background in airguns, why can't Crosman?
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I googled that MAV77. Looks like a B40 to me.
That was best i ever concluded exactly what it was ... a BAM 40. With the chinese doing loose copies of many products and the STRONG presents AIR ARMS has here in the USA it more than any reason the "WHY FOR" it never materialized. Now abroad in markets and countries where Air Arms has no leverage on Intellectual property / design infringement it is the WILD WILD west. Thus the "WHY FOR" there in europe and not here.
WAG for what thats worth :-\ :-\
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I know this post is a few years old but I haven't forgotten this rifle. I have reached out to Krale and put a bug in their ear about out interest in this rifle. I will keep an eye on their inventory from time to time and if anything comes of it I'll let everyone know with a new post.
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As I said above I'm pretty sure it's a dolled up Tech Force 99. The TF 87 is similar but the anti-bear trap release lever is in front of the safety. The TF97 has the same trigger, safety and anti-bear trap release as the TF99 but the receiver is shorter with less spring an less power.
I have two TF99's and an 87. Love to have a Warhawk.
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Even he said it looks like a AA TX200. I thought the same. I remember that look. Just added the thumbhole butt section. And since Crosman owns all the rights to the Remington airgun name, calling them would be the thing to do. I had to wait months for the dust to settle in the courts before they'd deliver my Remington 725VTR. That's when Crosman bought the rights.
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I have a .177 Remington 777SB and a Remington Express wood .177 springer and two .177 Crosman Storms (same as a Optima) all made in China and I'm pretty sure the Warhawk is a TF99 clone made in China also.