Hawke Scopes - Relative Quality

[PaulFWI]

I may be crazy, but I've realized that I like my "cheap" Hawke Vantage as much more more than the considerably more expensive Airmax and Frontiers.

I have a 2-7x32 Vantage on my FX Crown, an Airmax 30 SF Compact 6-24x50 on my M3 Impact, and a Frontier 30 FFP 4-20x50 on a Tikka .17 HMR rimfire rifle.

Within the max mag range of the Vantage, the more expensive scopes don't look any better to me, optics-wise.

And that is the range I almost always use for hunting. I hunt rabbits and squirrels out to 60Y with the airguns and very rarely need or want more than 7-8x. (When trying to see if a 50Y bump is a flattened squirrel, maybe I'll turn it up. That's rare.)

The .17HMR is capable of much longer shots by virtue of being .5" flat out to 125Y; maybe the higher power will prove itself there. (Yes, I have had 100Y shots on late-season squirrels.)

But here's the big thing: I love the simple duplex reticle on the Vantage. I am old-school and just shoot within the range my gun is reasonably flat, because outside of that range usually wind/accuracy are the deciding factor anyway. And you can't get that nice, clean, simple reticle on the more expensive scopes!

Am I missing something? Sure, if I A/B'd the optics, I'd probably note a difference. But I think it's small.

I think that $130 Vantage is a complete steal. Oh, BTW, it's super light (12.8oz) also.

[Xraycer]

I don't own any of the higher end Hawke models, but I do have a Vantage, and I am a fan of it! The lightweight is one of its great feature. It has been mounted on my Urban, and I am still quite happy with the pairing.

[Frank in Fairfield]

I have a 2-10X Vantage on the R1.
Excellent scope.

[Bayman]

I like the Vantage line. I have three 2-7 Vantage non AO 30-30 reticle. They're on a 223, 243, and 7mm-08. I have a 3-9 non AO 30-30 reticle on a 17hmr. I have a non AO 4x Vantage mildot reticle on my 177 Hw50. My wife has a Vantage IR 2-7 AO on her Hw30.  I have a Vantage 3-9x40 AO shop mule that's been on dozens of springers including a few R1s..

Airmax.
I have a 2-7 Airmax on my hw30. I have five 3-9 Airmax on my 2 Hw95s, R9, Hw98 and my R1. I have a 4-12 Airmax on my Hw97.

Oh i forgot my wife's CZ has a Vantage 3-9x40 AO too.

The Vantage scopes are high value scope in my opinion.

BTW  yesterday DVOR had the Vantage 3-9x40 AO on sale for $100. That's a darn good deal if you ask me.

[PaulFWI]

Seems we all agree the Vantage are great.

Is it possible the more expensive scopes hold zero better? Or have some other advantage I'm not thinking of? I honestly don't know.

[Xraycer]

Seems we all agree the Vantage are great.

Is it possible the more expensive scopes hold zero better? Or have some other advantage I'm not thinking of? I honestly don't know.

I recall members mentioning that the Vantage line aren't spring gun rated. A lot of times, glass is what really shoots up the price on scopes.

[PaulFWI]

Seems we all agree the Vantage are great.

Is it possible the more expensive scopes hold zero better? Or have some other advantage I'm not thinking of? I honestly don't know.

I recall members mentioning that the Vantage line aren't spring gun rated. A lot of times, glass is what really shoots up the price on scopes.

If that's a difference it's not one that Hawke touts or even mentions anywhere that I can find.

One time Pyramyd Air told me that all the scopes they sell, which includes that line, are spring-rated.

Also, I think the (vast) majority of those using the Airmax & Sidewinder lines are using them on PCPs. (Frontier seems to be intended more for firearms.)

[Xraycer]

Seems we all agree the Vantage are great.

Is it possible the more expensive scopes hold zero better? Or have some other advantage I'm not thinking of? I honestly don't know.

I recall members mentioning that the Vantage line aren't spring gun rated. A lot of times, glass is what really shoots up the price on scopes.

If that's a difference it's not one that Hawke touts or even mentions anywhere that I can find.

One time Pyramyd Air told me that all the scopes they sell, which includes that line, are spring-rated.

Also, I think the (vast) majority of those using the Airmax & Sidewinder lines are using them on PCPs. (Frontier seems to be intended more for firearms.)

I don't have a definite answer. As I stated, it was something I heard mentioned by some members. In any case, it's a non-issue for me.

[Bayman]

Seems we all agree the Vantage are great.

Is it possible the more expensive scopes hold zero better? Or have some other advantage I'm not thinking of? I honestly don't know.

I recall members mentioning that the Vantage line aren't spring gun rated. A lot of times, glass is what really shoots up the price on scopes.

The glass is noticeably better on the Airmax scopes than the Vantage. The Vantage scope glass is very good for the price. Its why I have them on several powder burners. The glass on the regular Vantage line is better than the Vantage SF and IR line. They skimped on the glass for the extra whistles and bells.

Hawke will tell you the Vantage line is good for upto 12fpe springers. Over that they tell you to use an Airmax. I will tell you I have a 3-9x40 Vantage AO that i use as a shop mule. I can't kill that thing. It's been on a 23 fpe RX1, a few R1s and over a dozen other springers. Important to note all the guns had droop corrected. Droop kills as many scopes as springs.

The Airmax gives you a finer glass etched christmas tree reticle that's better for target and long distance work. The thicker easier to see Vantage reticle is better for general short range use and hunting areas with dark busy backgrounds.

Oh and the turrets are better on Vantage than the Airmax. The Airmax are inconsistent and are often mushy and inaudible. Not a big deal if you don't often make adjustments or do so in quiet environments. The Vantage turrets are consistently pretty tactile.

The Airmax are as close to springer indestructible as you get. If you mess one up. The gun probably has barrel droop.

That's my synopsis of the Vantage and Airmax lines. I have and had other brand rifle scopes of higher and lower tiers so I do have something to compare the Hawkes with. Generally they're a high value product.

[Xraycer]

Excellent summary(based on hands on experience), Ron!

[PaulFWI]

Yes, that's a good summary.

I can't tell the diff in glass, offhand. I don't use those silly IR reticles. And I like the thick reticles better overall. And I don't have springers (save an R7 I'll be buried with).

I spent too much!

[PaulFWI]

Important to note all the guns had droop corrected. Droop kills as many scopes as springs.

I didn't follow your meaning here. Why is that? Are you saying that having a scope at the limits of its (vertical?) adjustment is bad for it?

Thanks.

P.S. About to buy a Tikka Lite in .243 for the family and will probably put a Vantage scope on it.

[RBQChicken]

Following...........

[Bayman]

Important to note all the guns had droop corrected. Droop kills as many scopes as springs.

I didn't follow your meaning here. Why is that? Are you saying that having a scope at the limits of its (vertical?) adjustment is bad for it?

Yes. Absolutely having the scope adjust at its limits is never good. Having it close to the upper elevation limit is the worst. The reticle is held in the erector tube within the scope body. That tube is what the turrets move around. Both turrets push against a tension spring at the 7:30 clock position (or lower left). With the elevation near maxed out that spring becomes fully extended and doesn't have enough tension to hold the reticle steady and the scope loses zero. In some cases the erector tube rubs on the roof of the scope body and aluminum dust is created that can be seen inside the scope.

Proper scope mounting is critical to longevity. A new scope should never need more than a turn and a half in any direction to zero. Ideally less than a turn. Scoping a rifle properly is more complicated than most people know. When it's done right you'll have few problems with decent scopes.

Also good choice on the Tikka, great guns and a great caliber.

[Bayman]

Seems we all agree the Vantage are great.

Is it possible the more expensive scopes hold zero better? Or have some other advantage I'm not thinking of? I honestly don't know.

I recall members mentioning that the Vantage line aren't spring gun rated. A lot of times, glass is what really shoots up the price on scopes.

This is correct. Hawke only reccommends the Vantage line for springers 12fpe and under. All my air guns are springers and they all wear Hawke scopes. Most have Airmax and a couple sub 12fpe models have Vantage. My shop mule Vantage has been on 20+fpe piston guns and still kicking. Ymmv. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a Vantage for a 15 fpe springer if it's mounted correctly to match the barrel angle.

[PaulFWI]

Yes. Absolutely having the scope adjust at its limits is never good. Having it close to the upper elevation limit is the worst. The reticle is held in the erector tube within the scope body. That tube is what the turrets move around. Both turrets push against a tension spring at the 7:30 clock position (or lower left). With the elevation near maxed out that spring becomes fully extended and doesn't have enough tension to hold the reticle steady and the scope loses zero. In some cases the erector tube rubs on the roof of the scope body and aluminum dust is created that can be seen inside the scope.

Thank you. I'd never heard this.

I have a Hawke Frontier, one of my most expensive scopes, on a Tikka .17HMR and the elevation is at the min.

I will have to do something about that.

Also good choice on the Tikka, great guns and a great caliber.

Yeah, they're great. I have one in .17 HMR and one in .243 which i'm hunting in WI with right now. The T3x is only 6.6lb in .243. Both are tack-drivers.

[Bayman]

Yes. Absolutely having the scope adjust at its limits is never good. Having it close to the upper elevation limit is the worst. The reticle is held in the erector tube within the scope body. That tube is what the turrets move around. Both turrets push against a tension spring at the 7:30 clock position (or lower left). With the elevation near maxed out that spring becomes fully extended and doesn't have enough tension to hold the reticle steady and the scope loses zero. In some cases the erector tube rubs on the roof of the scope body and aluminum dust is created that can be seen inside the scope.

Thank you. I'd never heard this.

I have a Hawke Frontier, one of my most expensive scopes, on a Tikka .17HMR and the elevation is at the min.

I will have to do something about that.

Also good choice on the Tikka, great guns and a great caliber.

Yeah, they're great. I have one in .17 HMR and one in .243 which i'm hunting in WI with right now. The T3x is only 6.6lb in .243. Both are tack-drivers.

We have six Tikkas in the house and everyone is a tackdriver

Onto air guns. I wouldn't worry about the minimum elevation as much as maximum elevation. Especially in such a low recoil application.

Here's a simple diagram to show what I tried to explain earlier.

Good luck with your hunt. I'm on my way out the door in a few minutes myself.

[PaulFWI]

I was thinking that. At min, the spring is compressed, not extended. Should be Ok.

[Xraycer]

I never even knew all these anatomical of a rifle scope. More great info, Ron!

[Rick67]

I never even knew all these anatomical of a rifle scope. More great info, Ron!

Don't you X-ray everything?