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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Projectiles => Boolit and Pellet Casting => Topic started by: rsterne on January 28, 2019, 03:59:47 PM
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I would imagine I am not alone in having problems casting small caliber hollowpoint bullets, and in particular skirted pellets.... particularly in regards to incomplete fillout…. I use a 10 lb. Lee Bottom Pour Pot (the drip-a-matic), and even running it way up at 900*F with 40:1 alloy (2.5% Tin) my reject rate is dismal.... :-[
I have been looking at the spectacular results that Wayne has been getting with a hooded dipper and pressure pouring, just a few rejects out of 500 skirted pellets.... :o …. and wondered if I could adapt my Lee for pressure pouring.... I had tried it stock, and the small rounded spout went so deep into the taper in the sprue plate, and sealed against it, so you couldn't tell when the cavity was full.... My solution was simple.... I got out a grinder, gathered up my courage, and ground the bottom of the spout off flat, just below where the taper on the spout transitioned into the rounded end.... I then filed a notch, facing forward, using the corner of a square file, to create a path for the lead to escape from the tapered hole in the sprue plate.... Here is a photo of the modified Lee spout....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/Ground%20Spout_zpsydhgtcvo.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/Ground%20Spout_zpsydhgtcvo.jpg.html)
When you cast, you lift the mould up so that the end of the (now shorter and flat) spout hits the inside of the tapered hole in the sprue plate, and lift the handle to pour the cavity.... You MUST start at the front cavity and work towards the rear, or the overflow, which happens quite quickly, runs into any hole forward of where you are pouring, and stops you from pouring that cavity on that pour.... Hold the mould at about a 45 deg. angle to the base of the pot, so that the overflow (which comes towards you) is easily visible.... Stop pouring before the lead runs over the edge of the sprue plate, of course.... You will see this....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/Sprues_zps38gst6lx.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/Sprues_zps38gst6lx.jpg.html)
If you hold the mould up against the spout too long, the lead will solidify and you will have to rock the mould a bit to break off the thin part of the sprue.... The trick is when you see that squirt of lead that indicates the mould is full, lower the handle to stop the lead flow, and then drop the mould down and move it to pour the next cavity, or cut the sprues.... I have only done a few bullets so far, I was so excited by how well this worked that I needed to share it immediately.... Here are some 60 gr. NOE .224 cal bullets, the first few from the mould…. I had 2 wrinkled bullets out of the first 4 (using a preheated mould), so even without getting the mould up to temperature the fillout was perfect....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/Results_zpsn7jfrhdo.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/Results_zpsn7jfrhdo.jpg.html)
After I do some more of these, I have some 24 gr. HPs to cast in .172 cal.... THAT should be a critical test.... I'll let you know how it goes.... 8)
Bob
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Bob you'll probably be surprised at just how cool you can run the molds this way. I'd say doing it like this would probably really be best for a brass mold so you don't ever get it hot enough to warp it.
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veeeeery interesting!!
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I recently got a PID, and even running the pot at over 900*F I was getting 30-50% rejects on pellets.... Not any more !!!!…. 8)
I cast some 25 gr. HPs today in .172 cal, and here is a photo of just a handful of random bullets I scooped out of the tray....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/25%20gr%20172%20cal%20HP_zps4pzwit9v.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/25%20gr%20172%20cal%20HP_zps4pzwit9v.jpg.html)
You have to see these little gems to appreciate them.... they are less than 1/2" long, and the HP is not much over 1/16" in diameter.... :o …. I also cast some of the NOE .217 cal Magnum Hunter pellets today.... This is a mixed batch of 24 & 26 gr. pellets…. The mould comes with 4 sets of base pins to produce 4 different weights of pellets.... These are the lighter two....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/217%20cal%20Hunters_zpspxc34qy0.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/217%20cal%20Hunters_zpspxc34qy0.jpg.html)
Here is a closeup of a random handful of them, you can see the two different skirt depths....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/217%20Hunter%20Pellets_zpskwuw4ioa.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/217%20Hunter%20Pellets_zpskwuw4ioa.jpg.html)
The 61 gr. .224 cal and the pellets were cast at 800*F, the tiny .172 cal HPs at 850*F.... For anyone who is having difficulty casting small, intricate shapes.... try modding the spout and pressure pouring.... I will NEVER go back.... 8)
Bob
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I recently added a PiD to my dripomatic but haven’t got too much time on it . I’ve been having some issue with casting the 225-39 bullets and am getting way too many rejects . I get wrinkles and what appears to be cracks in the bullets . I just might try this mod . I don’t cast anything bigger than .257 cal so this migh5 just be the ticket .
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Looks like Lee might not sell parts for the 10# pots anymore. But a spout for a 20# pot is $3.50... https://leeprecision.com/20-pot-valve-spout.html
I'm not sure but this might be for a 10# pot. https://leeprecision.com/pot-pro-assembly.html
If it wasn't -1 outside, I'd go see how my mold fits my 20# spout...!
I have been noodling the idea of designing a foot powered lifter to press the mold against the spout.
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Tin loses most of its ability to reduce surface tension at around 750 degrees. Try lowering pot temp to around 700-720, you'll get even better fill out. Honestly, pot temp makes little difference. If it is liquid it is hot enough I'll cast at 650 in the winter to reduce oxidization, mold temp is 95% of the equation in getting good fill out not pot temp. That being said, congratulations, those are some nice looking bullets I might have to consider putting the ladle down and unplugging my spout to see how it goes.
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Bob
Have you checked the weights to see how uniform they run etc?
You have given me an Idea, for modding the Drip o Matic, I have.
Tia,
Don
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One thing I have found using a bottom pour is keeping the lead flow rate at a level that keeps a smooth laminar flow out of the pot and into the mold cavity. If the flow rate is to great it creates turbulance and splashes in the mold which I believe adds to wrinkles and poor fill out. Even with pressure casting the best results will come with laminar flow into the mold. :D
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I use a 20 lb. Lee Bottom Spout Pot. I was having dismal results with the NOE .25 pellet mold. I found accidentally that if I held it an inch below the tip of the spout and VERY briefly lifted the valve handle then quickly pushed it shut again I got full fill out and almost zero rejects. My results look just like Bobs pic of the mold with a bit of extra lead at each location on the sprue plate. Coincidentally the method Wayne uses also worked quite flawlessly for me as I did many years of casting with a ladle before the Lee pots came into my life.
Call me pedantic but I sometimes use a soldering iron to repair the nose on cast pellets and the base on bullets that have small voids.
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Brian, that pic of the Lee Pro-Pour appears to have the same shape spout my pot has.... It is a cone, with a hemispherical end on it.... I ground almost all the hemi-sphere away, to end up with a flat end about 1/4" in diameter.... and then filed a notch in it to let the air and lead out....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/Lee%20Spout%20Mod_zpsi3hinpcq.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/Lee%20Spout%20Mod_zpsi3hinpcq.jpg.html)
Bob
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Wow !!! Bob those .172 cal's sure look nice for sure, I'll still probably continue pouring the way I have been, the only bad part about that is I'll have more of an oxidation plug up problem than you will. When I tried the pressure pour method 4 decades ago I've been using it ever since. The problem back then was filling the skirts on my mini balls so just for the heck of it I tried holding my ladle directly to the old Lyman steel mold sprue plate and suprise, surprise the skirts were filling out beautifully. I've used this method since. It's amazing how nice those tiny HP's of yours turned out 8)
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Mr. Bob, I knew you would like pressure pouring once you got the hang of it. 8)
Really no need to mod the spout though. You put the spout in the spru cavity, lift handle and count 1 one thousand. ( Second). Half way thru the second, you lower the mold blocks and let the lead puddle. You have to do this to keep the spru plate hot enough for good fill out, whether or not pressure casting. And the reason for the spur plate to spru plate to weld. weld. This same welding can plug your spout as well.
(not to mention, having the notch there,is relieving pressure you want to be working for you. Without the pressure, it really isn't a pressure pour).
The puddle can accidentally run into the next cavity, but once you get the cadence down pat, it becomes second nature. Many times I will pour an extra stream beside the spru holes in order to induce more heat to the plate. It help quiet a bit with smaller bullets, as they carry so much less latent heat.
Additionally, much above 775, you start separating the tin from the mix, and it is lost to sludge unless re-rendered back into the melt. I use Beeswax for this. As I too cast too hot. LOL, I seem to like 800 the best.
(Don't forget to pre-heat you mold blocks to apx. 425 before starting. Failure to do this is the one biggest reason for poor fill out. (Unless your mold is contaminated of course). I really like a smooth top hot plate for this. I keep a 1 lb. coffee can on it, with a door cut into it to allow the molds to be inserted and removed, and about 3 1 lb. ingots on top of the can to keep it from falling or moving if I bump it while moving the mold blocks.
I like the temp in particularly when I want a smaller as cast bullet. I have one mold that shoots exceptionally well as cast when cast at 800f. If I cast at 725, that same bullets have to be sized to shoot accurately.
Only two issues I have run into pressure casting, is if too much pressure is used, you can get whiskers on the edges, or sided of the bullet where the lead escapes out of the mod thru the vent lines of the mold. And secondly, o'l Author rally gives my shoulders a fit of I have to lift the mold very much for casting. I normally cast at least 1000 bullets at a time, and size another 500 to 1000, so I get a little bit of a workout.
I am using an upside down press for the sizing operation. I just droop a bullet into the NOE sizer and pull the handle. Sure is faster, easier, and safer than holding those small bullets on the ram upt to the die. easy to get pinched with such small pills. ;) Now those little pills just fall into place on their own.
I love it! and it has more than doubled my speed and eased a lot of stress on my left shoulder bringing the bullets over and placing and holding them on the ram.
I am loving those tiny bullets. Cedric has had great success with them. I am on another project at the moment. Converting the .25 t .257 and testing an unchoked .25 wit bullets as well. But a .172 is definitely in the future for the RainStorm.
Mike
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Michael I don't even think it takes a second to pour with the ladle, it's a matter of a back and forth fluid motion is all it takes for me, I might consider getting me a bottom pour some day but I figure if it's working the way it does I don't need to fix it :D
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Mike, I found that the stock Lee spout fits too far down into the Sprue Plate, and unless you lift like you suggest, you don't get any sprue.... Whatever the possible drawbacks, all I can say is that it REALLY is working for me.... 8)
As a side benefit, I think it has increased my productivity about 50%.... ;)
Bob
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It's amazing how nice these molds work for some primo looking pellets too.
I ran 600 good ones this morning with about 30 bad (bad skirts).
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4906/39953704443_d5e845f706_b.jpg)
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I cast 280 of the NOE .25 cal. Hunter pellets today half were the lightest, 26.5 gr. and half were the medium weight 28.2 gr.... I only had TWO skirts that weren't 100% filled out.... 8)
Bob
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Mike, I found that the stock Lee spout fits too far down into the Sprue Plate, and unless you lift like you suggest, you don't get any sprue.... Whatever the possible drawbacks, all I can say is that it REALLY is working for me.... 8)
As a side benefit, I think it has increased my productivity about 50%.... ;)
Bob
Mr. Bob, all I can say is Woo-Hoo!!! Increased quality and 50% increase in production is simply fantastic results.
Good for Mr. Bob!!! ;) 8)
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Dang Bob that's better restults than I've been getting, maybe a bottom pour pot will be in the future for me ???
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I cast 280 of the NOE .25 cal. Hunter pellets today half were the lightest, 26.5 gr. and half were the medium weight 28.2 gr.... I only had TWO skirts that weren't 100% filled out.... 8) Bob
Bob, Thanks, I like the idea of the notch in the bottom pour nipple and I will give it a try.
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Dang Bob that's better restults than I've been getting, maybe a bottom pour pot will be in the future for me ???
Wayne, I think you would really enjoy a bottom pour. One of the biggest advantages is much less dros on and in your lead, as you're not introducing oxygen into the melt every time you dip your leadle into it. Really keeps the pots melt clean! ;)
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I am a ladle caster, and I refuse to shoot wrinkled bullets...which is why I seldom buy commercial bullets and prefer to pour ny own.
That said, I started using 40-1 years ago on the big black powder cartridge bullets, transitioned to airguns and although I tried pure lead, I did not like the results. 40-1 just worked better and you who know me know my results.
Now I have a NOE mold for 22 pellets coming, am I going to have to use pure lead?
40-1 without antimony does not harden much, but will it work? Please no guesses, no I think so answers, you folks that tried to use 40-1, what were your results on those pellet skirts and did they expand to fill the bore?
Roachcreek
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I am a ladle caster, and I refuse to shoot wrinkled bullets...which is why I seldom buy commercial bullets and prefer to pour ny own.
That said, I started using 40-1 years ago on the big black powder cartridge bullets, transitioned to airguns and although I tried pure lead, I did not like the results. 40-1 just worked better and you who know me know my results.
Now I have a NOE mold for 22 pellets coming, am I going to have to use pure lead?
40-1 without antimony does not harden much, but will it work? Please no guesses, no I think so answers, you folks that tried to use 40-1, what were your results on those pellet skirts and did they expand to fill the bore?
I've been casting NOE 25s. I've used pure lead, 40:1 and a pure lead/40:1 50/50 blend. All of which expanded just fine. I was hoping to use pure lead, but my problem with the pure lead was the pellets were dropping with undersize head diameters. They still shot ok through a choked barrel. The 50/50 blend ended up being a good compromise of the two. Just fyi, if you are ladle casting as I do you will find the pellets are not that difficult to cast, even with pure lead
Roachcreek
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Thanks for the reply.
I bought a bottom pour pot, took the linkage off, plugged the hole and ladle cast with it out of habit and the fact that I Brail cast now a days due to not being able to see the bottom spout, with the ladle I can walk it to the sproue plate holes.
Of course you can imagine the frustration I give my poor wife and kids about this.
Bob try 40-1 and a ladle, you can control the pressure and 40-1 just fills better.
Roachcreek
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I've had my ladle for 40+ years and still using it. ;D
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1833/29086187777_d239555c62_b.jpg)
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40 years? How many of those 40 years were you casting in salt water my friend ;D
Holding the mold on it’s side to pour the first cavity is hard to do with a bottom pour pot also.
Roachcreek
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By modifying my pour technique with my Lee 20# pot I am down to about a 1% reject rate on the NOE .25 Heavy Hunter 38 grain.
This makes me very happy. ;D
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That reject ratio would make any bullet caster happy.
My last Lee pot was mounted permentrly on my bench with the base reversed to pour directly into a Corbin core mold mounted permentry below it to make cores for a Corbin 22 o or set up for the grain .224 bullets.
Roachcreek
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RC, the 40-1 and 20-1 work very well with the NOE pellets. Wouldn't use anything else. ;) 8)
Mike
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Mike,
Good to read that, I had prepared myself by visiting Rotometals site this morning to buy pure lead, looks like I won’t have to now.
Roachcreek
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Lani I've never owned a bottom pour pot, got a Lee that's the same age as the ladle.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/892/41079765740_399c49f723_c.jpg)
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Mike,[/size]Good to read that, I had prepared myself by visiting Rotometals site this morning to buy pure lead, looks like I won’t have to now.Roachcreek
Whew! That was CLOSE!!! ;D
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Mike,
Good to read that, I had prepared myself by visiting Rotometals site this morning to buy pure lead, looks like I won’t have to now.
Roachcreek
Whew! That was Close! ;D
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Wayne,
And the great thing about that Lee, is the only thing that wear out is the element, which is readily available.
When I had my mountain place it was so far out that I had to make my own electricity. I called my first bull elk I shot with a cast bulletis my solar elk. I was still bottom pouring at that time, but the owner of Buffalo Arms in Idaho, Dave Gullo, got me ladle pouring and using a cast iron pot on a propane stove. I think Mike ended up with my last propane bullet casting setup.
Mike, I used to havre three different alloys I used on the vineyard, glad I can stick to just 40-1.
Roachcreek
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Lani I've never owned a bottom pour pot, got a Lee that's the same age as the ladle.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/892/41079765740_399c49f723_c.jpg)
So.... I guess no app available to control that one from your phone? ;D
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I use 40:1 exclusively now for all my casting, bullets and pellets.... The skirt expands fine to fit the bore, and in bullets it is still soft enough to expand at airgun velocities....
The last run of pellets I did, I cast 280 pellets and only had TWO where the skirt wasn't filled out properly.... I think the pressure bottom pour is working just fine.... and I'm down to 760-780*F now, instead of over 900....
Bob
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I am doing a 20:1 pure lead to COWW. Makes some nice projectiles. Shiny, well filled and not too much increase in hardness.
Wayne that ladle looks like mine of similar vintage but my handle is a bit toasty nearest the business end from not being careful enough around open flames years ago on a Coleman stove.
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I sent a fellow member some pellets for testing and they were all 4BHN which indeed tells me what Rotometals says about their product is true. It's going to be a long time before I use up that pig ingot I ordered back in June last year, I've still got quite a bit left (probably 10lbs) of the first half I started with and the enitire second half to use up yet. It weighed 58lbs when I got it. I started out hacking chunks of it off with a hammer and axe head but a hatchet head works much better and that's what I've been using.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1761/42255790505_15624c2ae1_b.jpg)
when this supply gets low I'll try some of the small ingots with 1% tin in them to see how they do.
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Wayne, when I ordered some that way, I used an old wood chisel and a 5 lb hand sledge. GRRRRR!!!! ;D
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Bob,
When you got your mold, and washed it in hot soapy water, did you remove the pins?
If you did not, maybe oil was trapped between the block and the pin, and is offgassing up between the block and pin and preventing lead from flowing into the skirts.
Roachcreek
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Mike, Wayne,
This morning I went to the Rottometals site.
They now have lead in little short rod like pieces in 5 lb bags.
Roachcreek
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I washed my moulds with the pins tilted out, then rinsed them in solvent and blew them dry with compressed air.... Then I smoked the cavities and the top of the pins.... The moulds were then preheated on a hotplate.... There was no sign of contaminants, which usually show up as tiny bubbles in the surface of the pellet when you first start casting....
but thanks for the heads-up.... I can see that happening....
The last time I purchased my 40:1 from Rotometals I got the "nuggets", they are really handy, just drop them in the pot to top it up.... BTW, now that I am running my pot at under 800*F, the melt stays MUCH cleaner on the top.... 8)
Bob
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I got my mold today, washed it 3 times, did hot plate 3 times, then cast a few and tested them. I had the ladle against the Saturday plate and got somnr wings, I also had hard chambering in my prod mm barrel. I had to up the power from 450 FPS with 18.1’s to get it to group, but not bad for a first run.
Do you size, looks like I may have to. I am going to try just pouring them without the spruce plate contact and see if the wings disappear.
Roachcreek
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If you are getting "wings" at the back of the skirt, you likely don't have the base pins set high enough in the mould…. Aluminum expands more than the steel pins (so does brass), so you have to have the pins so high they will barely tilt out when you open the cold mould…. If you set them too high, you can't close the mould properly, and you can damage the mould or pins, so it's a fine line between them tilting out to drop the pellet and getting fins on the back of the skirt....
Bob
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Mike, Wayne,
This morning I went to the Rottometals site.
They now have lead in little short rod like pieces in 5 lb bags.
Roachcreek
That wold be handy!
RC, when you close the mold, make sure it is spru plate up and lightly jiggle while tilting it in the direction that will settle the pins before closing. If closed upside down, the pins can hit the skirt cavities and damage the mold while closing. ;)
Mike
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I no longer scrub molds from NOE or Arsenal. They come fairly clean. I do hit them with non chlorinated brake cleaner in the cavities and face of the blocks.
This works well and really appeals to my lazy side. ;D
I hit them again every, too every other casting session, and oil the locking/alignment pins, and spru plate hinge and once hot, the top of the sprue plate once everything is hot enough to smoke the oil. Sure wish Bull Plate was still made.
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I use only the brass molds if I have them and basically wash them good in detergent then blow dry everything good while they're still warm from the hot water rinsing and reassemble them. I always take them apart when I'm doing this because IMO there's not a lot of work in adusting the pins good. The last mold that I bought I never needed to bend the pin holders because they're right on the money the way they are.
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Lani I've never owned a bottom pour pot, got a Lee that's the same age as the ladle.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/892/41079765740_399c49f723_c.jpg)
I would think that ladle or any ladle would become quite laborsome on a large melt. The bottom pour will be my preferred method as I learn more and get into casting.
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Keith I like simple and the way that I've been doing it is simple and takes very little space. I normally just hunt but this winter I've done probably more plinking than I have in years being snowed in like I am pretty much.
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Keith I like simple and the way that I've been doing it is simple and takes very little space. I normally just hunt but this winter I've done probably more plinking than I have in years being snowed in like I am pretty much.
You certainly do produce some good looking pellets with that setup. Hope to get somewhere close to your level of expertise someday.
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I have found a problem with casting pellets with the shortest, widest base pin.... I am getting quite a few skirts (10-20%) that are not filled completely.... This is accompanied by a shallow, crescent shaped wrinkle on one side, ending in a small notch at the skirt.... and in some cases the wrinkle bends around and I get two notches in the skirt, at about 150 deg. to each other (the angle is very consistent when that occurs)…. It is only happening on the shallow base pin, not the deep or medium pins, nor on the flat base pin.... I suspect that the stream of lead is hitting the FLAT END of the pin, which is quite wide, and deflecting off to one side, likely filling that side of the skirt, but by the time it gets back around to the opposite side of the skirt, it is too cool.... With the deep and medium pins, the end of the pin is smaller, and is likely spitting the stream of lead and filling all parts of the skirt equally.... With the flat base pin, there is no skirt to fill, and they are also fine....
I had reduced the temperature of the melt down to 760-780*F, and I wasn't having this problem with the shallow base pins when I was casting at 800-820*F, so that is likely all that is required to get back to fewer rejects on that pin depth.... I'll try that the next time I am casting with that shallow depth pin....
Bob
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Keith,
Ladle casters are thr purists of the casters, many of them have cast very large bullets, 45 cal/500 grains and went to the ladle for better pours.
You will find older shooters and the ones that use the ladle. I have had 4 or 5 bottom pour pots, I use a lee production pot with the bottom pour removed although I prefer to cast with propane and a cast iron pot, but ar 69 I am getting lazy enough to use electricity.
Bob glad you found the problem. I am going to go after it today and have the mold set up to open those pins as you described.
Roachcreek
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Keith,
Ladle casters are thr purists of the casters, many of them have cast very large bullets, 45 cal/500 grains and went to the ladle for better pours.
You will find older shooters and the ones that use the ladle. I have had 4 or 5 bottom pour pots, I use a lee production pot with the bottom pour removed although I prefer to cast with propane and a cast iron pot, but ar 69 I am getting lazy enough to use electricity.
Bob glad you found the problem. I am going to go after it today and have the mold set up to open those pins as you described.
Roachcreek
Just to be clear, I'm not knocking the ladle method, and am just observing the art from all angles so far. I have watched the 30 to 40 year experienced experts pour molds with ladles. They just get to it and get it done without much fuss. They make it look really simple, and are without all the latest gadgets.
I have noticed a number of the Lee pots drip quite a bit, but there is an adjustment up top to stop the drip. Not an issue with the ladles. There's no telling which way I'll head if any right now. Just taking it all in for now.
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The "adjustment" at the top of the valve rod I the 10 lb. "Pro Pot" doesn't adjust anything.... The screwdriver slot just allows you to turn the valve rod to clear any debris and/or re-seat the valve pin in the hole at the bottom.... When the pot is full, the steel valve rod tends to "float" upwards in the lead, reducing its effective weight, and the pressure of the lead is greater, so they drip more when full....
Grabbing a screwdriver every time between pours is inconvenient, and wastes a lot of time and valuable mould temperature, so I welded a 1" OD flat washer into the slot, so I can turn the valve rod with a gloved hand.... I simply reach up and tweak it after each pour, while I am waiting a few seconds for the sprue to set.... no wasted time, and no screwdriver required.... I think adding some weight to the rod would really help, but I have never tried that.... yet....
Bob
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I never have leaks with my 20 pound pot except on heat up cycle which stops when the pot is up to temp. My 10 pound never did anything but leak and I ended up plugging the bottom spout years ago and using it with a ladle.
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The last mold I didn't have to bend the pin adjustments at all, they were actually adjusted pretty darned good the way they came. I still dismantled it and washed thoroughly in dish soap first though, reassembled made sure the pins were adjusted right and it's casting great. Actually when adjusting the pins I get them so they'll just lay down where they're supposed to be and I actually can't feel any play up and down but as long as they flop out good is what really counts. You definitely don't want them too tight or you could ruin the mold.
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I was beginning to think I should have bought 132 bucks worth oh JSB’s from PA.
I can’t see well enough to read very well these days, so when I got the mold I saw the extra pins and assumed they were just that until Bob said the has different ends,
I adjusted the pins that were in the mold when I got it to open as Bob said, but the adjustment screw was not tight in that position, knowing that tightened screws work loose on molds, I did not see much hope.
The results were dismal even tho I tightened them during casting.
So I tried the other end of the spectrum and put in the solid pins.
If you want to see comedy, watch a nearly blind man change out those pins on a still hot mold.
I started casting again with the stumps of my burnt fingers and did about 20 casts, much to my surprise, the screws which were tight still allowed the pins to slant when I opened the mold.
The results were stunning, no exeragerated bases, a little sidefinning until the mold started closing better.
I took the solid based pellets to my range, cranked up the power on my Prod and shot those first shots into one hole, then they started string down the target.
Problem was I had shot the air pressure down, so I refilled and shot the next 8 into one hole.
The solid based pellets imbed themselves flush into duct seal with my TJ barreled prod with a B-Staley mod.
So it went from very bad this morning to pretty good. Can’t wait to get the Skyhawk and see how they fly in it;
On a side note Bob, my JSAR 4500 psi ti Bulldog tube arrived during all this, going to keep in around 3500 or less with the JSAR valve.
Roachcreek
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but the adjustment screw was not tight in that position,
The screws should always be tight.... You bend the brackets slightly until the pin just sits in the cavity, with no up and down movement, but will tilt out when the mould is opened.... Here are the instructions for adjusting....
http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,199.0.html (http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,199.0.html)
I thought NOE including printed adjusting instructions with the RG moulds as well, but it certainly is on their website, at the link above....
Bob
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Yeah, it would have been nice to know this.Looks easy now that I see how to do it.
Tintube was a bust, one end would not allow me to thread either the valve end in or the end cap, sending it back to JSAR Monday.
Roachcreek
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The "adjustment" at the top of the valve rod I the 10 lb. "Pro Pot" doesn't adjust anything.... The screwdriver slot just allows you to turn the valve rod to clear any debris and/or re-seat the valve pin in the hole at the bottom.... When the pot is full, the steel valve rod tends to "float" upwards in the lead, reducing its effective weight, and the pressure of the lead is greater, so they drip more when full....
Grabbing a screwdriver every time between pours is inconvenient, and wastes a lot of time and valuable mould temperature, so I welded a 1" OD flat washer into the slot, so I can turn the valve rod with a gloved hand.... I simply reach up and tweak it after each pour, while I am waiting a few seconds for the sprue to set.... no wasted time, and no screwdriver required.... I think adding some weight to the rod would really help, but I have never tried that.... yet....
Bob
Mr. Bob, I had a lee 20 lb production pot that just loved to leak. Especially as you say during warm-up. I ended up drilling a divers weight all the way thru, and hung in on the lift handle screw. It cured it.
For better fill out with the wide base pins, try this. Using your propane torch, heat the tips of the pins a bit. Hot pins work best, and won't cool the melt around the pins, as the thin skirt material coos very fast. Same trick works with HP pins.
Mike
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Mike, I'm thinking that a piece of 1" CRS about 1.5-2" long, drilled to fit over that screw head and fastened on with a setscrew, and sticking up so that you can twist it easily with a gloved hand.... might really help cure the "drip-a-matic".... Can't hurt, anyways, and will serve as a handle to let you twist it to get it to seal again.... like my washer does, but heavier....
What do you do, heat the pins every time?.... seems like that would REALLY make casting tedious.... ::)
Bob
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My kids always wanted the silver men statues my Lee pots made while warming up, being lead they did not get them.
Mike is correct, it was a old timers trick to heat that pin assembly onthe Ideal molds to keep the wrinkles off the hollow point. Those instructions that Bob was kind enough to furnish me addressed that also. I also did that in the Hollowpoint Mols Co conversions I had.
Those flat base pellets, ‘pullets? Bellets?’, I made yesterday flew well enough in my Prod to hold my interest without skirts, I just wonder what they weigh.
Roachcreek
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I agree with knife, it sounds like the pins are not warm enough yet. Bob, do you use a probe with your molds? If not it should be the first thing you do to a mold, it takes all the guess work out of casting.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000P895XA?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000P895XA?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B071LQBK6X?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_pd_title (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B071LQBK6X?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_pd_title)
That being said, even if your mold block is at the correct temperature the pins will still need another ten mins or so to catch up. I suggest casting with multiple molds at the same time. Set your hot plate so that it will keep a mold at a constant temperature ( I like 360) and leave it there while you are casting bullets. Switch molds as you see fit.
As far as thermometers go I prefer the maverick, it take measurments on a ten second interval and averages them to keep things simple. The hotloop works well for lee 2 cavity molds because it takes instant readings, as the lees change temperature so quickly. As a bonus it comes with a short probe that fits better with the little handles that come with the lees. I own two of both types and like to cast with 2-3 molds at a time.
Hope this helps,
Shane
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Bob
Great info and photo's and the pellets/bullets are outstanding,
Question for you,
On the photo of the Lee pouring spout, what is the center object, in the spout?
I have just drained my Lee 10#, and removed the down rod, and found nothing that looks like your photo,
I did a complete clean up of the pot etc,
Tia,
Don
I would imagine I am not alone in having problems casting small caliber hollowpoint bullets, and in particular skirted pellets.... particularly in regards to incomplete fillout…. I use a 10 lb. Lee Bottom Pour Pot (the drip-a-matic), and even running it way up at 900*F with 40:1 alloy (2.5% Tin) my reject rate is dismal.... :-[
I have been looking at the spectacular results that Wayne has been getting with a hooded dipper and pressure pouring, just a few rejects out of 500 skirted pellets.... :o …. and wondered if I could adapt my Lee for pressure pouring.... I had tried it stock, and the small rounded spout went so deep into the taper in the sprue plate, and sealed against it, so you couldn't tell when the cavity was full.... My solution was simple.... I got out a grinder, gathered up my courage, and ground the bottom of the spout off flat, just below where the taper on the spout transitioned into the rounded end.... I then filed a notch, facing forward, using the corner of a square file, to create a path for the lead to escape from the tapered hole in the sprue plate.... Here is a photo of the modified Lee spout....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/Ground%20Spout_zpsydhgtcvo.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/Ground%20Spout_zpsydhgtcvo.jpg.html)
Bob
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Bob, how did you modify your Lee pot with a PID controller, and is that really necessary?
Is there an advantage to the 20lb pot verses the 10lb?
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I think that is just the hole in the spout you see, there is nothing in there....
I bought an aftermarket PID made by "Hatch" through a Group Buy on Cast Boolits…. by the time I got it into Canada it was nearly $200 CDN.... :o …. It plugs in between the Lee pot and the wall outlet, and has a temperature probe that sits in the melt.... I made a small bracket that bolts on under the screw that holds the free end of the bail of the pouring handle to hold it permanently in the pot, out of the way, and just clear of the bottom.... Once up to temperature, it holds the temperature within a couple of degrees, has a digital readout, and is adjustable from 0-1100 *F, and self-calibrating to your pot.... I have never used any pot except the 10 lb. Lee.... I had a round, mechanical thermometer and found it woefully inaccurate, so bought the PID....
Bob
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OK thanks! I have a PID on my BBQ pellet grill. It is very precise, but think the provided controller on the Lee pot will be sufficient.
The only advantage I see on the 20lb (other than the capacity) is the adjustable mold stand.
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Most pots have a screw to adjust how far it opens when pouring. On my RCBS I adjust it as the lead goes down in the pot. If you don't the base of the bullet won't fill out perfect. If it's to much the bullets come out with fins on both sides from the lead being pushed out in the mold grooves. RCBS pot has a allen screw as a stop. I just leave a allen wrench in it. I bump it a quarter turn or so as needed.
In my opinion a PID controller is one of the best things you can do to get consistent bullets. Lead temperature stays within 10 degrees. The lee pots are terrible for controlling heat. As the lead goes down the pot will get hotter. It's one of those things. You get what you pay for. I started with a lee pot. The dripping drove me crazy. I bought a RCBS not to long after.
On my 92 gr 257 mold the bullets drop 91.7-91.9. Most of my molds drop within .5 gr.
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Most pots have a screw to adjust how far it opens when pouring. On my RCBS I adjust it as the lead goes down in the pot. If you don't the base of the bullet won't fill out perfect. If it's to much the bullets come out with fins on both sides from the lead being pushed out in the mold grooves. RCBS pot has a allen screw as a stop. I just leave a allen wrench in it. I bump it a quarter turn or so as needed.
In my opinion a PID controller is one of the best things you can do to get consistent bullets. Lead temperature stays within 10 degrees. The lee pots are terrible for controlling heat. As the lead goes down the pot will get hotter. It's one of those things. You get what you pay for. I started with a lee pot. The dripping drove me crazy. I bought a RCBS not to long after.
On my 92 gr 257 mold the bullets drop 91.7-91.9. Most of my molds drop within .5 gr.
Those are good tips. I'll look at the RCBS pots.
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I tried the lee 10 lb, 20lb and settled on the RCBS Pro-Melt. Sadly, the new RCBS, which has PID built in, is proving to be a lesser pot than the promelt.
I do really enjoy the Pro-Melt al LOT!
Mr. Bob, I only heat the tips for the HP pins, (skirt pins in the pellet molds) just as the mold comes off the hot plate, and ready to cast. After that, the melt keeps them at heat.. if I slow down or take a break, I do it again. Never during the pour. ;)
Mike
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Thanks Bob
It looks like a squirt of lead hanging there.
Tia,
Don
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I preheat my mold with the sprue plate down on a hotplate, to get the pins heated more evenly. Also keep a bic lighter handy to smoke the pins on occasion while casting.
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I tried the lee 10 lb, 20lb and settled on the RCBS Pro-Melt. Sadly, the new RCBS, which has PID built in, is proving to be a lesser pot than the promelt.
I do really enjoy the Pro-Melt al LOT!
Mike
Why do you say that about the RCBS Pro-Melt II verses the RCBS Pro-Melt.
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The new version, with the pid included, is having issues never seen with the original ProMelt. they moved the production to china, and it is having teething issues.
Mike
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To stop the leaks .. Clean the spout and the rod and then lap them together.. Helps a lot....
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The new version, with the pid included, is having issues never seen with the original ProMelt. they moved the production to china, and it is having teething issues.
Mike
Thanks Mike! I have looked at many models of casting pots. The RCBS Pro-Melt looks like a good one to start out with. I don't want to start out too cheap, and would like one I can grow with. I'm still looking though while I get the sizing equipment needs sorted out, amongst other stuff.
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I am using a Lyman Mag 25 and have been very happy with it. I also added a RCBS Easy Melt to pre-melt lead to feed the Lyman and not have to wait for temperature to come back up after charging the pot while casting.
My setup.
(https://i.imgur.com/9mQIlli.jpg?1)
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I am using a Lyman Mag 25 and have been very happy with it. I also added a RCBS Easy Melt to pre-melt lead to feed the Lyman and not have to wait for temperature to come back up after charging the pot while casting.
My setup.
(https://i.imgur.com/9mQIlli.jpg?1)
I have been looking really hard at that one since it has the PID. How's the drip issue, or is there one? I believe I would have to get the NOE guide plate for it too, based on what I have researched so far.
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I have the NOE mold guide on it too. It drips when heating up. I think it is because the lead retracts when it cools and causes the valve to open and a we bit. Put an ingot mold under the spot while heating up. After it is hot I get very little if any dripping.
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Seems the only time my Lee 10 LB bottom pour pot leaks is if it is not level. :-\
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Good way to control the leak splatter is a pieces of tubing. I use a piece of titanium I had that's maybe 2" tall and 1.5" OD.
It contains it. I have it there because sometimes I do a quick blast to make sure the flow is good
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https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-Production-Pot-Grey/dp/B07N6MMKNW (https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-Production-Pot-Grey/dp/B07N6MMKNW)
I've had my eye on this. 54 bucks it tempting.
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That's the one I have.... and this is the press....
https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Reloading-Press-Md-90045/dp/B002SF4X5I/ref=pd_sim_468_8?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B002SF4X5I&pd_rd_r=651117d6-29b1-11e9-96a7-dd88c24c87f5&pd_rd_w=1JlwP&pd_rd_wg=Rtpfb&pf_rd_p=90485860-83e9-4fd9-b838-b28a9b7fda30&pf_rd_r=T3SCPZP080EAGEK83955&psc=1&refRID=T3SCPZP080EAGEK83955 (https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Reloading-Press-Md-90045/dp/B002SF4X5I/ref=pd_sim_468_8?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B002SF4X5I&pd_rd_r=651117d6-29b1-11e9-96a7-dd88c24c87f5&pd_rd_w=1JlwP&pd_rd_wg=Rtpfb&pf_rd_p=90485860-83e9-4fd9-b838-b28a9b7fda30&pf_rd_r=T3SCPZP080EAGEK83955&psc=1&refRID=T3SCPZP080EAGEK83955)
Bob
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I have that one too Mr. Bob. I have it put away. It couldn't size what i need. Not enough compound leverage. But is fantastic for very small increments. 8)
My wife likes sizing. I hate it. I Want to cast and shoot. LOL She couldn't size the NOE's down though. Really hurt her hands to just try. We ordered the classic cast lee, and you can size with your little finger. Smooth and effortless. Silky is the word I'm looking for. ;)
Mike
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Yep, I've got a Classic Cast too. I swapped out the threaded bushing with Hornady's Lock-N-Load system. This was before Lee started offering their own Quick change system...
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Newb alert. On the Lee press pictures I see a shell holder on the tip of the bottom pivot shaft. I don't see that working with our cast bullets. So does that pop off leaving a flat base or do you have to buy an additional flat piece to work with cast bullets. Can't seem to get that answer when searching online. Thanks!
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Yeah, the shell holder slides out. There are MANY different case head sizes so you have to use different holders.
For sizing cast bullets the case holder is replaced with a "pusher" rod. It's the cylindrical object with the flange at the bottom, in this pic... They have different diameters depending on the bullet you need to size.
https://leeprecision.com/new-lube-size-kit-.224.html
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NOE sell pushrods for each caliber, and they slide into the holder on the top of the ram on the Lee (and other) presses....
Bob
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Thanks! Now it all is making sense on this.
Bob, on that press you have, is it capable of resizing say a .359 down to say .356/.357 with reasonable/doable effort, or is that too much to ask of this press and its leverage capabilities on a body.
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The larger the caliber the harder it is to size down 0.003".... I have never tried that in .35 cal (I only need to size down 0.001-0.002" with the moulds I have), but it certainly works in .25 cal.... If I have to go 0.004" or more, I usually do it in 2 steps.... I use Hornady Case Lube brushed into the die about every 20 bullets, you can feel the additional drag when the die needs is.... You get a feel for it in short order once you start sizing bullets....
Bob
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The larger the caliber the harder it is to size down 0.003".... I have never tried that in .35 cal (I only need to size down 0.001-0.002" with the moulds I have), but it certainly works in .25 cal.... If I have to go 0.004" or more, I usually do it in 2 steps.... I use Hornady Case Lube brushed into the die about every 20 bullets, you can feel the additional drag when the die needs is.... You get a feel for it in short order once you start sizing bullets....
Bob
"I usually do it in 2 steps". That's a good tip ;)
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Keith
Something to remember about the NOE push rods, they come in 2 different sizes,
the one for AG pellets/slugs measures . 2125" in diameter,
and the standard 22 cal measures .220" in diameter.
The AG push rods will work in the standard 224 size dies,
BUT, the standard 22 push rods, will not work in the AG sizes dies,
because of the size/diameter difference.
Don't get them mixed up......... ;) Don't ask how I know................
Tia,
Don
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Thanks Don! I do see two push rods listed for the .22 cal bushings. One is labeled 22PRAG and the other is labeled 22PR. I take it you are saying stick with the 22PRAG for our airgun pellets. They don't list the dimensions on the site.
I am primarily focused on .357 starting out. I only see one push rod listed for .357/358 thank goodness. :)
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keith
You are correct, the push rod that ends in "AG" is for air gun use only,
the diameters for the 22 caliber PR's, is what I got measuring with a .0000" mike.
I know nothing about the big boomers, I like the smaller end 17,22, and maybe 25 cals. ;)
Thanks,
Don
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Keith;
For a screaming good deal on a simple, easy to use, with high leverage, take a look at this one.
the handle system is able to be reversed and switched from side to side, which makes mounting upside down for fast sizing a breeze!
It is plenty for sizing cast lead bullets. And very inexpensive!
Mike
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/176078/lee-challenger-breech-lock-single-stage-press (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/176078/lee-challenger-breech-lock-single-stage-press)
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Mike that looks like a great compromise between the $29 Lee one and the $122 Lee Classic model.
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They had it for 62 bucks and free shipping a couple of months back. I Jumped on it. ;)
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I've had a pellet mold for four months and finally got to try it out this morning and have some thoughts-
That was quite the steep learning curve. I've been dealing with the drippy Lee pot for years and with these tiny cavities have to say ladle pour is probably the easiest way to get production out. It's not quite an issue of drips with larger molds and cavities; I'll time it for next drip to put mold under and start a pour but with these quick pour tiny things you can't do that. I have to say production was drastically reduced due to the bottom pour pot drip issue.
Other than that things went well. A lot of no skirt fill out at first and all the things you all have said. I started to try forced pour and that would solder the bottom pour nipple to the sprue plate...
I found if you just tilt the mold away from you and put nipple of pot about 2/3rds in sprue hole gravity and laminar flow of lead did the work. And if I tried to keep small sprue buds it turned into work getting them out. So it was a 1,2 count of pour. If you count as fast as you can it's almost 3 count but enough to let the lead pour length of sprue and second hole to flow over first hole to solder them together so when cutting sprue it all falls off easy.
You get the idea, I had to find the cadence and system/method that worked. The drippy bottom pour pot was still cause of many a no fill skirt or wrinkles. As with massive 457 and larger slugs that need a fast pour, ladle works best, these tiny things need controlled fast or that cooling down drip will F it up.
My thoughts after a long morning of first casting with pellet mold. Have about a pound of perfect pellets, .22 24 grain.
Cheers
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Oh! And if the pins cool down pellets stick like crazy to them to point I used pliers to pull off and put in discard pile. Never smoked a mold/pins before but tried it and started to think it was more heat doing the job than the soot.
And if a pellet stuck to other side of mold I'd close it in damaging skirt....was a wear in period of mold and I smoked that side too. In reality what it did if sticking to pin was keep lead in mold and set mold on pot to keep hot and take a break. That seemed to do the trick but again, likely most of what was going on with sticking was breaking in mold.
I cleaned it months ago and did the heat up, cool, heat up in oven many times then it sat until this morning when I heated it to 400F in oven then attached it hot to my RCBS handles. I like it a lot, that's where this mold will stay now that I've the knack of it.
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I've always used a hooded ladle with a pour nipple and poured directly into the mold tilting both mold and ladle together for years, it works fantastic for pellets.
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I've kept up with your posts Wayne. That old method is indeed, in my mind, the best. I've cast for years now and with many molds. Like I said, large cavities I could never get perfect with the small Lee 10lbs pot and knew the big hooded ladle with spout would have been best choice to remedy that instead of investing in a bigger faster flow pot. Smallest cavity I'd done prior to this morning was 92 grain round nose 9mm, other than .360 round ball. These quick fill pellet molds would be easy with a ladle. I totally get how you get such large piles of perfect pellets in few hours.
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I just ordered the Lee Pro 4 pot along with PID controller parts and a Lee press. I can use the bottom pour or a ladle. I shall see which one wins, lol.
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Nice looking pot. The stopper is upright which I bet doesn't drip like the slanted stopper on the 10lbs pot. You'll also get great flow with the larger pot. All in all with that set up you probably wouldn't ever need a ladle. The cheapo 10lbs pot has limitations is all.
I read some have massive temp control control issues. Honestly, once you cast and get into the zen of it you "know" temp and adjust it to what works by how the lead is behaving in pot and in mold. I turn up the cheapo Lee 10 pounder to full when melting then set it between 5 and 6 on temp knob once lead is melted. It's where my pot makes for good casting temp. When adding more lead as pot is running out I take a break and set the mold with fresh pour in it on top of pot to keep everything warm and go make a cup of coffee, have a smoke. Come back and lead in pot is ready to go so break sprue, dump bullets and start casting again.
Don't get me wrong, perfect temp control is going to make perfect slugs. It's just once you play with it long enough you can make perfect slugs without that expense. I mean within a grain of weight, without knowing and mothering the temp it can be done. I've cast slugs for long time PB long shot shooters that turned to air and was told I cast a great tolerance of weight. I don't even have a scale to measure it.
EDIT- reread this and see how pompous it comes across. Not the intent, just sayin' once you get to casting and get to reading the cues of lead and mold it all comes together on a modest budget. There is a zen to it.
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Nice looking pot. The stopper is upright which I bet doesn't drip like the slanted stopper on the 10lbs pot. You'll also get great flow with the larger pot. All in all with that set up you probably wouldn't ever need a ladle. The cheapo 10lbs pot has limitations is all.
I read some have massive temp control control issues. Honestly, once you cast and get into the zen of it you "know" temp and adjust it to what works by how the lead is behaving in pot and in mold. I turn up the cheapo Lee 10 pounder to full when melting then set it between 5 and 6 on temp knob once lead is melted. It's where my pot makes for good casting temp. When adding more lead as pot is running out I take a break and set the mold with fresh pour in it on top of pot to keep everything warm and go make a cup of coffee, have a smoke. Come back and lead in pot is ready to go so break sprue, dump bullets and start casting again.
Don't get me wrong, perfect temp control is going to make perfect slugs. It's just once you play with it long enough you can make perfect slugs without that expense. I mean within a grain of weight, without knowing and mothering the temp it can be done. I've cast slugs for long time PB long shot shooters that turned to air and was told I cast a great tolerance of weight. I don't even have a scale to measure it.
EDIT- reread this and see how pompous it comes across. Not the intent, just sayin' once you get to casting and get to reading the cues of lead and mold it all comes together on a modest budget. There is a zen to it.
Thanks for the input! The PID controller parts cost me $50.99 TMD so far for the main components i.e. the controller, SSR (40 amp), heat sync, K-type thermocouple and the K-type male plug and female panel socket. I already have a utility box, terminal strips and wire, etc. Plus, it will be a fun build. In the end, with experience gained with lead flow temps, I'll be able to just flip on the PID and keep a constant temp without fiddling with the Lee rheostat. I'm sure I could manage just fine with the Lee rheostat, but at a cost of more time and trouble like you stated.
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Not pompous at all Fish. It is right on the money. However, for our smaller bullets, 1 grain variance is HUGE!!!.any more than .2 is really not going to cut it in My .257's and .25's. Smaller the bullet, harder it is go cast perfect bullets with Well under 1 MOA. I strive for 1/2 MOA at least.
I would love to have a PID on the RCBS Pro Melt. Yes, I can read the bullets temps, but a PIC setup can keep everything even, and not changing. In the Lee system used in their pots, it is especially good. Their system is really not very good at Temp control with wide swings. GRRRR! And exactly the biggest reason I stepped up to the RCBS.
Knife
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Knife, if my DIY PID works out as planned, I would be happy to build you one too at cost ~$100 realistically with buying every piece and part needed. You would simply plug your RCBS into the controller's plug and mount the probe so that it is within the melt. The controller has an auto tuning feature you could set in play within the programming.
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Nice offer Trigg! Saving right now for the MP .25 8 gang mold. They are going to run a batch in March. ::)
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I have been casting every day trying different ladle techniques, then weighing the pellets, then shooting them at 12 yards in my prod.
I can’t see well enough to sort so weighing them and feeling them as I roll them with my fingers feeling for wings caused by flow into the vents, caused by too much alloy in the ladle while doing a turned to the side then upright pressure pour.
I am using the pin that is one size away from the flat base and culling to within one half tenth grain at 29.9 to 23 grains, then lubing by gently rolling in a zip lock bag, very gently, with three or four drops of 30 wt silicone oil.
This is producing .25 5 shot groups at around 450 FPS, thru a MM tj barrel and a Hawk Sidewinder 4x16 ffp, set on the max of 16 power.
I just finished 54 pours from the NOE 2 cavity .22 caliber and my sort/cull ratio is 65 percent within the parameters listed above, so I am learning at a steady rate.
My precision Harbor Freight calipers, yes that is a joke I bought them 9 years ago, they are still as accurate as ever, which is not at all :-X, are reading skirts at .217 heads at .214 plus or minus who the heck knows.
Question is do I need to size? I always did with every mold I have owned with the exception of tapered Hoche molds.
Roachcreek
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As a post script to my last post, I would use a Lee portable press for sizing, in the past I used various Lee dies, but will purchase a NOE set if needed.
I shoot sitting fron a Caldwell Max setup which is from a front and rear yoke on a tripod combination that came out less than a year ago, as a improvement from the original, meaning I forget what Caldwell calls it, not a bench, but it works.
Roachcreek
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You should not need to size pellets, the difference between the head and skirt diameters is there to look after a wide range of bore sizes....
Bob
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Lani, What NOE mold/part number are you using?
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Earlier I was doing some more plinking using the .22 Hunters @ 19.6 grains from a Crosman 150. The pellets are really flying straight for being out of pistol. I'll bet they'd be deadly from my Prod but I don't shoot that in doors, just a little bit much at 32fpe.
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Triggertreat,
The mold is the 217-20-RF-CE6 2 cavity brass.
Roachcreek
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Roachcreek that's what I'll be casting more of in the morning.
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There was a while that I thought I would have been better off buying JSB’s with that money, but then you folks got me on the right track. I then tried the fiat base with the idea that if I could make that work, I would change the pins out to the next lower weight, which is where I am at now.
Yeah a 32 FPE Prod would alert the neighbors.
Can’t wait to try them in my Skyhawk, PA sent me a shipping # this morning.
Roachcreek
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Roachcreek I suspect that Diana Skyhawk would have the same twist rate my SPAM16 has, I know there is several parts on them that are interchangeable with mine. Which stock did you get? If I bought one it would be the Walnut, it's cheaper than the laminate and IMO looks better too. I pretty sure that Skyhawk is the same thing as the P15 but with much nicer stock.. I think Diana is also doing other things to the Skyhawk according to the shot show video they did on it.
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Triggertreat,
The mold is the 217-20-RF-CE6 2 cavity brass.
Roachcreek
Okay, Thanks! I was wondering how you were coming up with 29.9gr on a 20gr pellet mold, but realized the mold must come with some different base pins. There is nothing in the description that would indicate that it does. Anyways, yeah the skirt should have mic at .224.
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RC, it will be interesting to see if you have any luck with the flat base pellets.... I have only tried them in .30 cal and they were awful, spiraling like crazy after 50 yards....
Bob
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Mr. Bob and RC. the flat pins gave the same results in the. 25. All over the place. :(
The lightest however, in the new barrel, WOW! ;)
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The reason I went to the flat base pin was that I could not get the concave base that was in the mold dwhen I first got it to cast good pellets. So I went in the opposite direction and tried the flat base.
At first I got a good group, then cast more flat bases upped the Prods power and could not duplicate that group. I reset the power level back down, but still could not get them to group
Then you guys introduced me to the threads about adjusting the pins and I tried the next pin that gave the least amount of concave base. It groups well, perhaps the next pin that gives the bases more of a concave will be better, but for now they are working great.
Having said that, when the stars are aligned and I am shooting well the 18 grain JSB do have a slight edge in that they will print about the closest I can come to a perfect group with my eye sight.
The real test will be when I get my Skyhawk and pick up the velocity, I have a tracking number so it has been shipped.
Sorry if my poor writing skills and initial success led you folks on a wild goose chase, youYneed to remember this is all coming. from a nearly blind guy shooting at 12 yards.
Hopefully this pellet works as I prefer heavier projectiles.
Roachcreek
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RC I need to cast up some of the mid sized ones of the 217-20-RF myself, I think my next run I'll do that because I've got plenty of the lightest ones right now. When the weather warms up I'll try them in my SPAM16. I did cast up 517 of the light ones this morning with 15 rejects.
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I only cast about 300 of the Arsenal 57.8 grain bullets last night. I need to smelt some lead.I'm down to 4 or 5 lead muffins. lol ;D
Maybe I should cast pellets today, since is so bad out. Casting the pellets sure goes a lot further with the lb's of lead. ;)
Mike
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Remember to stir the pot frequently, especially after adding new lead.. You could have a weight difference if you don't... May not be much , but it will make a difference ..
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I am taking a break from casting.
Just got back from thr Clinic, I feel like hot lead has been poured on my chest and underarm.
If you old guys have not gotten your Shinglesx vaccine do it now!
Roachcreek
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I am taking a break from casting.
Just got back from thr Clinic, I feel like hot lead has been poured on my chest and underarm.
If you old guys have not gotten your Shinglesx vaccine do it now!
Roachcreek
Got my second shot two weeks ago! Good to go now.
I know a guy who got shingles. Not something I want to mess with... :'(
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Yeah, it is not.
Been waiting for my Skyhawk for 3 months, it gets here on Thursday and I can’t play with it. At least my Doctor said I can still work out.
We wanted my wife to get the vaccine but it is back ordered pretty much everywhere in Oregon.
Taking anti virals now.
Roachcreek
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It's some nasty stuff RC. I don't need it, but my wife does, and it is stuck in limbo with the Ins, Co. GRRRR!!!
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Remember to stir the pot frequently, especially after adding new lead.. You could have a weight difference if you don't... May not be much , but it will make a difference ..
Only in a dip pot, and then extremely sparingly. Every time something is put into the melt, including a spoon, you induce oxygen into the mix. This causes oxidation, and slag.
Once metals are in a solution they tend to stay in solution. Only too much heat, or improper fluxing can change this..
Only stir when introducing new metal into the melt. Also, do not confuse flux with a rendering agent That too is totally different, with totally different results.
Dlux, is for removing impurities. Sawdust, borax, marvelux, many types are used. To render desired metals back into the pot before the flux, paraffin, bees wax are good. But be sure the metals are back into solution before the flux. Or you are just throwing your expensive alloy down the drain. (in the trash)
In a top dip pot, only need to be stirred with a rendering agent to blend such things as tin back in, which many think is all dros. Do not flux until the dros is free of tin or other alloys you need, then flux and remove the dros.
In a dip pot, you induce oxy. every time you dip for a pour. In a bottom pot, mostly only during the reloading of lead. Then mostly covered. Huge difference.
If a dip pot is controlled properly, it take a huge increase in time to keep the lead clean, and well rendered. Just part of it.
And remember, every time you stir you will see dros. Must be darned dirty, No? No, it wasn't there and just brought up, You created it by inducing oxygen into the mix. Stir it back in and you now have slag, or holes in the interiors of you bullets!
Many a good smelt has been ruined by continued fluxing. Any foundry operator will tell you the same.
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I see some purchases in my near future.