GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: toftime on March 15, 2019, 10:01:21 AM

Title: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: toftime on March 15, 2019, 10:01:21 AM
Looking at buying my first pcp. Hardest decision so far is what caliber. I am between the 22 and 25 cal.  I will be using mostly for target shooting and a little pest control. 
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: wimpanzee on March 15, 2019, 10:11:16 AM
You'll notice that .22 pellets are a lot cheaper than .25

That said, I have a .25 (my first!) on the way, eventually...
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Tweeter on March 15, 2019, 10:19:43 AM
I'd get the .22, it will generally be quieter, use less air and pellets are less expensive like wimpanzee mentioned.  Especially if you are going to be target shooting, I'd think .22 would be the better choice and still plenty of power for pesting.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: n2omike on March 15, 2019, 10:33:15 AM
If you need to hand pump, the .22 will be a lot less work.  As for hand pumps, the $45 Ebay unit is 3-stage, and goes up to 4500 psi.  Even comes with a couple of rebuilds worth of o-rings, and has a female HPA quick disconnect.  I bought one of these for my son, and also have the much more expensive Benjamin unit.  This cheap Chinese pump is definitely the better unit.
This is it on Ebay. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCP-Airgun-Hand-Pump-High-Pressure-Hand-Pump-for-Benjamin-Hatsan-HPA-4500psi/401314270659?hash=item5d7031cdc3:g:edcAAOSwYVlZ-T7G (https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCP-Airgun-Hand-Pump-High-Pressure-Hand-Pump-for-Benjamin-Hatsan-HPA-4500psi/401314270659?hash=item5d7031cdc3:g:edcAAOSwYVlZ-T7G)

He has the Gamo Urban, this pump and a Bugbuster scope.  Nice fun, lightweight, accurate, affordable combination.  Haven't touched it.  Still as it came from the factory.  Guns have come up in price a bit since we bought ours.  These guns are made for Gamo by an English company...  can't remember the name offhand.  There is a more expensive version this from that company that can often be purchased at a competitive price.  Maybe someone else will have more details.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: ezman604 on March 15, 2019, 10:42:07 AM
.22 for majority usage as target shooting with some hunting/pesting.
.25 for mostly hunting/pesting and a touch of target punching.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on March 15, 2019, 10:49:38 AM
.22 for majority usage as target shooting with some hunting/pesting.
.25 for mostly hunting/pesting and a touch of target punching.
What DEz said and once you decide on your budget there will be plenty of enablers here with advice on which rifle and what pump to purchase and more than likely a link to the amazon or ebay seller to purchase your budget support equipment from.  You see we all here on this forum just love to show people where the rabbit hole is .  ;D ;D  :o  ::) Unfortunately we also usually forget to mention just how deep that rabbit hole really is. In fact ask DEz to post a picture of his Air Gun shop and the trailer where he stores his overflow collection in   ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) on March 15, 2019, 11:35:51 AM
Oh heck, go all in for your first one and get the FX Dreamline!  Then it doesn’t really matter because if you get the .22 now, you can get the .25 later, and then get the .177 and after that get the .39 and have all the bases covered. And then when you get tired of the current stock you can swap it out for another type. You can go Classic in a sweet laminate or walnut, or go tactical or bull pup, or lightweight!  And when you need more shots per fill upgrade to the 489cc CF tank!  The possibilities are endless and guaranteed to place you well into that rabbit hole!!!
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: thedude on March 15, 2019, 12:26:31 PM
The nice thing about the 22 is not only are pellets cheaper, but you can walk into any Walmart and pick up a tin or 8.

Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: DamonZ28 on March 15, 2019, 12:42:06 PM
I was looking at the Hatsan Flash, and was going to buy it in .25. Then I saw somewhere that the .25 has a loopy trajectory, whereas the .22 is flatter. I don't know if this holds true for other rifles, but it caused me to change my mind to .22, and that's what I ended up buying. Most of my shooting is going to be small pests at short range, or basement target shooting.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on March 15, 2019, 12:50:04 PM
Yeah, start of with a .22 for sure.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: triggertreat on March 15, 2019, 01:24:24 PM

Start with .22 caliber first for plinking and small game pest control, plus the other points other members have already noted.  If you feel you need more range and power then go with a .25 caliber later.


I am not a fan of these multiuse guns where you can swap barrels/calibers.  You'll have to tune and sight in for each.  It is much better to quickly grab a gun already tuned and sighted in for the task at hand.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Bullfrog on March 15, 2019, 01:34:01 PM
I was looking at the Hatsan Flash, and was going to buy it in .25. Then I saw somewhere that the .25 has a loopy trajectory, whereas the .22 is flatter. I don't know if this holds true for other rifles, but it caused me to change my mind to .22, and that's what I ended up buying. Most of my shooting is going to be small pests at short range, or basement target shooting.

I’m not sure that a .25 is loopy in its trajectory. Maybe if its underpowered such as on a .25 springer so as where the pellets are being lobbed at low speed. But any of my average speed .25s are going to outshoot an average speed .22 at 50 yards in real world conditions.

But the .22 is better for plinking due to air usage and pellet price. I set up both of my .22s as Walmart pellet friendly pinkers and light hunters.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Lastdog on March 15, 2019, 01:35:10 PM
I think you made a smart choice. The flash is an excellent gun. I have the 25 and wish I had the 22. Will probably end up with both. Ps my 25 is not loopy.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: bear air on March 15, 2019, 01:56:13 PM
The 22 caliber would be ideal for plinking/target shooting. It also has plenty of power for pesting at reasonable distances. There are a ton of pellet choices out there and some of the pellets are heavy enough that they put out a respectable amount of energy. I just purchased a 22 over the holidays and Im loving it. While my 25 is not!!!! Lol. Youll have to keep us posted on what you decide.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: kkarmical on March 15, 2019, 02:14:16 PM
The nice thing about the 22 is not only are pellets cheaper, but you can walk into any Walmart and pick up a tin or 8.

Any pesting type critter you can put down with a .25 can be put down with a well placed .22 shot.
And every now and then when I catch walmart with a sale on pellets or in my case they just  price them wrong and I buy all that are on the shelf.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Hayfoot on March 15, 2019, 02:16:31 PM
.22 for majority usage as target shooting with some hunting/pesting.
.25 for mostly hunting/pesting and a touch of target punching.

Yes +1
very well put.  :-)
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Dairyboy on March 15, 2019, 04:02:56 PM
Yup .22 is the way to go IMO. I own no other caliber airguns at this point only .22. If you need bigger then just go straight to .30!
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: hanleyfan on March 15, 2019, 04:13:20 PM
I have got both .22 and .25 and if I had to make a choice of only one to keep it would be the .25, it just makes me smile more when shooting it.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: ToRmEnToR on March 15, 2019, 04:32:24 PM
I have got both .22 and .25 and if I had to make a choice of only one to keep it would be the .25, it just makes me smile more when shooting it.




That’s the way I feel. Just jump into the 25 if you have the means. If budget is a concern then 22.

Just beware the 25 will blow thru your fence in the backyard and keep on going. They are no joke.

My very first pcp and serious airgun was a 25 marauder. Looking back the only thing I regret was selling it to a friend, but it turned him into a airgun nut also. So not really a loss I guess.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Killfire on March 15, 2019, 04:44:46 PM
My first was a .22 Maximus. I used it primarily to hunt ground squirrels and plink once I killed/ scared them away for the day. ~20 fpe for 15-20 shots,  accurate,  and easy to pump.  Needs a moderator if noise is a concern and brass trigger mod if you feel inclined.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: bear air on March 15, 2019, 06:15:29 PM
I started with some springers from Walmart and then the first pcp I bought was the armada in 25. It has more power than the 22 for sure but my marauder in 22 is right around 40 fpe with an all stock rifle using JSB 25.39gr pellets. I get around 25 shots at that power.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Luis Leon on March 15, 2019, 06:34:40 PM
For me .22, good for plinking or target shooting. Definitely good on critters up to woodchuck size for me. Large selection of pellet types. And you can buy them locally in a pinch. You can shoot the heavier .22 pellets to increase your FPE if your gun is capable of launching them fast enough.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: screwwork on March 15, 2019, 07:29:20 PM
.22 cal would be my vote, ammo is easy to come by & cheaper then .25 cal.
Power that is up to you, you can have a paper puncher/pester that would kill most med sized pests, up the power (+50 fpe) and take good-sized pigs with no problem as long as you're within your shooting ability. 
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: gendoc on March 15, 2019, 07:43:09 PM
I'm with randy on that one ^^^^ ;)
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: thedude on March 15, 2019, 07:43:30 PM
For me .22, good for plinking or target shooting. Definitely good on critters up to woodchuck size for me. Large selection of pellet types. And you can buy them locally in a pinch. You can shoot the heavier .22 pellets to increase your FPE if your gun is capable of launching them fast enough.
True, there are those JSB monsters that are just huge. Honestly for hunting I think if you need more power than a 22 pcp, it's time to step up to a powder-burner. For punching paper at long range (EBR type stuff) the bigger calibers have some advantages. A bigger bullet is more likely to touch the bullseye. The heavier pellet is less effected by wind. The pellets are also significantly more expensive and less available.

I have personally had very bad luck with .177 pellets. So got rid of all of them. (except the p17 because it's awesome for $30)

For mere mortals plinking cans in the backyard, target shooting under 50yd or hunting small game the 22 is the best all-around pellet caliber.

The gun matters too. Some airguns just work better with different calibers.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: accu fan on March 15, 2019, 10:52:42 PM
The hatsan flash gives you 40 fpe in 25 cal thats loopy.
In 22 cal 38fpe thats flat. You can shoot heavy pellets
in 22 cal & buck the wind well. :D
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on March 15, 2019, 11:12:03 PM
Unless you are planning to shoot a PCP rifle with compressed helium most of us are realistically not going to shoot much beyond 50 to 100 yards For 100 yard accuracy shooting "pellets" I would say .25 caliber for anything up to 50 or 60 yards either .177 or .22 is fine JMHO. IF hunting furbearers  .25 or .30 in PCP for the larger critters. With that being said there are plenty of shooters here that push the envelope every day with different caliber rifles. Whether springer, multi pump, PCP and yes even Co2 there those who will be capable where others will question the choice. The bottom line is the skill of the shooter with the tool they chose is paramount. Taking extreme distance kill shots for bragging rights and sometimes if that is their primary goal  can be misleading to someone with less experience.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Ribbonstone on March 15, 2019, 11:26:07 PM

Like several memebers here...have played that game, and I'm picking the .22.

With some things worth noting.

1. You MIGHT get lucky and have the .22 shoot well with some of the cheap hanging on the wall box-store pellets....there are no cheap box-store .25 pellets.  If you are lucky enough to have the cheap "WallyWorld" pellets shoot well, the difference is major (like 3X cheaper).

2. IF your .22 likes "good" pellets, the difference in price between .22 and .25 is still there,just not as drastic (more like 1.5X higher for the .25's)....and you'll have to on-line order.

3. Standard rifles (meaning un molested/un-modded) generally produce more energy with .25 than they do with .22.   It's not that drastic a  in ballistics if you use the same weight .22 as you do .25 (either of them can be had in 25gr. or even 34gr. pellets).

4. (Going along with #3)...generaly, a .22 will shoot more "good"shots per fill than the .25 when comparing the same rifles.


Same argument can be applied between the .177 and the .22. Certainly the .177 will get less energy,but that doesn't seem to matter much if the crittrers are the small stuff we ueaully shoot and the pellet lands where it needs to to intersect the good-bits.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on March 16, 2019, 01:51:58 AM
After over a decade in airguns if I had to by my 1st PCP today I would get a Sumatra 500cc in .22

Turn the baby way down in power and shoot all day with cheap pellets, turn it up for hunting turn it up matching the pellet you wanna use and the pest you wanna dispatch,

you can go crazy and turn it up to full power and shoot some Nielsen slugs for about 100 FPE and that will take down any game you like too.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: K.O. on March 16, 2019, 06:11:18 AM
Normally I would not pick a Hatsan because I like to many other rifles... but right now there are a really good deals on some close out models would have to make or buy LDC/moderator for them... But just chose an AT 44 long .22(~39 fpe)for 219$... It is heavy like My .25 Mrods...  has a big 230 cc air tank... to good of a deal to pass  on...

https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product-category/closeouts/



Have a .22 BSA Buccaneer(~30 fpe) 299$, .22 Gamo Urban(~25 fpe and little bro to the Buc) $160(a sale and discount)...
 none needed work to shoot well stock... and no problems yet... do not know about the Hatsan yet...

also Have a .22 Benji Maximus(77$ clearance at wally's) it needed barrel work but then will clover leaf Crosman and benji 14.3 Hollowpoints at 35 yards... The BSA/Gamo sibs like a lot of different pellet and do very well with the 14.3 also...

I like them all for different reasons... Stock only if very hungry would I use them to hunt past 50 yards... on a day with good conditions... can go a bit farther with the .25 Mrods... basically have small kill zones on small game... so about as far as hitting a quarter every time is what my limit for hunting has always been my max distance...  the .25 cal does buck wind a touch better in my opinion... But that may change if the Hatsan likes the 30g .217 BBT I cast...
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: WeeHeavy on March 16, 2019, 06:48:11 AM
I'm still running a .177 Marauder. There isn't a critter or target safe within 45 yards. Granted I don't shoot anything larger than rabbits and squirrels, but with heavy pellets, I haven't felt the need for more power in order to take them humanely. Do I want a .25? Most definitely. Do I need one? Probably not.
If you're shooting in a suburban area or even a more rural area with neighbors close by, the smaller calibers are more discreet in terms of noise and a little safer in terms of retained energy down range. I should think the right gun in .22 caliber will be plenty powerful for most of the hunting/pesting/target practice the average backyard has to offer.
When you're talking ammo costs, keep in mind that most tins of .25 caliber ammo have a smaller piece count than a tin of .22 (JSB Jumbo Heavy 18.13gr in .22 is 500 ct, Kings in .25 are 350ct - same price from PA) . Add to that the availability of .25 and the need to pay shipping charges for lead (in my area, no one is selling .25 in a brick and mortar store), the argument against .25 caliber starts to stack up for those on a budget.
Number crunching the decision between .22 and .25 aside, I can see the attraction of the larger caliber and I totally get the go big or go home philosophy. I doubt anyone here is going to criticize your decision one way or the other. Your use case says .22 to me. But I am not you.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: n2omike on March 16, 2019, 08:14:09 AM
When you're talking ammo costs, keep in mind that most tins of .25 caliber ammo have a smaller piece count than a tin of .22 (JSB Jumbo Heavy 18.13gr in .22 is 500 ct, Kings in .25 are 350ct - same price from PA) . Add to that the availability of .25 and the need to pay shipping charges for lead (in my area, no one is selling .25 in a brick and mortar store), the argument against .25 caliber starts to stack up for those on a budget.
Number crunching the decision between .22 and .25 aside, I can see the attraction of the larger caliber

The price of pellets doesn't get ridiculous until you go past .25 caliber.  At that point, pellets start costing more than powder burners...  and you're not even getting a casing, powder, primer, etc.  But, up to .25, price is still quite reasonable.  With places like Pyramid Air where you buy 3 and get 1 free...  it's not bad at all.  Plus, right now everything is 10% off with Free Shipping on orders over $150, and 2X Bullseye bucks.  (St. Patrick's Day Sale)  But, even without free shipping, the price of pellets is very reasonable, with lots of choices.

Until you have shot a reasonably powerful and accurate .25.....   You have no idea about what you're missing!  These things hit HARD!  For hunting, there really is no comparison.  Hearing the pellet THWACK the target and seeing the result, is very satisfying.  lol  However, with all that extra power, comes a lot more air usage...  and if a person has to hand pump, that can take a lot of the fun out of it.  A .22 is a great choice for double duty!  Lots of good, affordable choices out there in this caliber! 

Good Luck!
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Jacob_M on March 16, 2019, 09:20:36 AM
.22 for sure. More shots = more fun.


I started off with a .25 Marauder. That thing in stock form almost sucked the fun out of airguns. Only 16 shots on 1 fill. It was awful. That poor hill pump I had in the beginning went through several thousand strokes lol.
After a lot of mods, now the .25 marauder gets many shots.

.22 Is the way to go hands down.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: anti-squirrel on March 16, 2019, 10:13:21 AM
A .22 is a more sound investment in most regards due to ammo cost. 

But I also admit the solid thump of a heavy-weight 1/4" projectile is smile-inducing.

I'd still opt for a .22 of the two choices, but my personal choice for a 1st PCP was actually .177 and it has exceeded my wildest dreams in accuracy, ease of use, and lethality when used for pesting.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: redlined_b16a on March 16, 2019, 11:11:51 AM
I have both.
A .22 hatsan at44 with 21grain ammo about 33ft lbs and makes an excellent small game hunter out to 100 yards.
It also loves elcheapo wal mart carried crossman 14.3 grain cphp ammo when I turn the hammer preload down.
Puts out about 25 ft lbs and still an excellent hunter with cheap stuff.

My .25 is alot more fun and power.
25 grain ammo about 45 ft lbs
28 grain about 50 ft lbs
The price to shoot 500 rounds about triples what it cost to shoot the .22.
Both my guns are well tuned and modified by me so they use about the same air consumption but I bought a compressor s it no longer matters.

I vote .22
My .22 gets me doves and  destroys the pest raccoons out to 75 yards with well planted shots.

Now if you are looking at a brand that only offers 15 shots.......I vote .25
The power of the .25 will make you excited since you cant shoot alot.
My at44 short can get me about 30 powerful shots with 21 grain barracudas.They buck the wind well and really hit hard around 900fps and eliminate the need to Have a .25 for small game.
My favorite is my .25 but For my needs I do not need a .25.
My .22 has taken coyotes within 50 yards.Instant lights out with well planted shots.
I'm not saying go yote hunting with a .22.
I'm saying when a yote came up in my hunting path I can take care of him with my .22 at close range.

.22 is more affordable.
$7 for 500 rounds at Walmart
Vs .25 is about $16 for 250 rounds online
I have found benjiman 28 grain .25 for $12 for 200 rounds.....if your gun likes them
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Ribbonstone on March 16, 2019, 12:23:18 PM
Think a lot of us went powerful first. Might be human nature to think that if you're only goint to buy one PCP, then  buy one that will work well for the most extream job you'll have....so we end up with a pretty powerful PCP as our first one.

Later on will realize that the shot count is kind of low, the power isn't really useful for back yard plinking/basement shoooting/etc.  Likely 90-95% of the shots in a year are ones that don't really benifit from the power.

Might be some that worked that in reverse (starting with a match speed rifle and moving up), but I'd bet most new PCP shooters are going for power. 

I'll still go with a .22 for the first (and manybe only) PCP as the best chance of reasonably filling most things we use a pellet rifle for.

Don't think I'm the only one that picked a pretty fast PCP as my first one. HAving been an airgun nut for a long time,  had a prertty good idea what springers can do.  Then I got to shoot another guy's PCP at the range and decided that I just had to have one of those afterall.

When deciding on a PCP, think power was on my mindmore than pellet costs or actuall all around usefulness.

Any way....the very first shot of my new toy was a revelation.  Cranked off a shot at the backstop I had been using to safely stop/contain the springers (mostly 12-16 foot pound type springers).

Blew though the backstop...blew though the back of the old shed...blew through the fence behind the shed...and lucky for me it hit the neighbors tree rather than his house.

Oh ship.

First impressions:
1. Need a much better back stop.
2. I really need to either dial DOWN the power or get a less powerful  rifle (or both).  The one in hand (Sumatra) did have an easy way to change power without changing any of the other settings.
3. A whole lot louder than the rifle shot on a range where is sounded so quiet....but that was a wide open range in the boonies...whole lot louder in the subrubs with all those hard reflective surfaces.

Eventually worked out (with some false starts) an effective LDC (back then, had to get a fitting to match the metric thread of the barrel and attach the LDC to that fitting), dialed it down for nearly all of shooting.

Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Machinist on March 16, 2019, 05:10:47 PM
Kirby posted a link for Hatsans, and the deal was too good to pass up.  Thanks Kirby.

Got an AT44 pump action in .25 for $200 a minute ago.  Yeah $200!!!!

Always wanted to try a pump action, and I remember Ribbonstone saying he had no trouble with his.

Steve
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Ribbonstone on March 16, 2019, 07:52:31 PM
Wouldn't say "no trouble"...just things I could easily handle.

1. It's not real stable for testing from a bench....the moving slide is kind of wobbly from bench bagging and you have to "shuck"it each shot...which means you have to move the front end off the bags for each shot cycle and find a new "nest"

2. It makes a definated/lound "shucka-shuck" sound between shots...kind of like a 12ga. pump...which seems to alert critters more than the unexpected (and suppressed) noise of the shot itelf.  They many not be able to place the "pop"of the shot, but certainly seem to zero in on the "shucka-shucka"noise of cycling for a repeat try.

3. There is this weird bent-sheet metal "tab"spring that actually locks the fore end and the breech closed,which can get out of adjustment. IF it ain't locked,the for end will want to jump back a bit at the shot,which kind of ruins fine aiming. 

But it does have a little fore-n-aft built in adjustment to make it actually lock the breech until after you fire (or until you operate the odd spring tab ahead of the trigger to diengabge the lock).

"A" would be the hanger that runs the pump action...."B" would be the actual little spring loaded "lock" for when it is cocked and locked up (which would keep fore end kick-back to a minimum).

(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/25%20hatsan%2044PA/1fb49b75-5d99-4be0-a638-aff4646a08c4.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/25%20hatsan%2044PA/1fb49b75-5d99-4be0-a638-aff4646a08c4.jpg.html)

Other than those three notations, it's worked like I expect a Hatsan AT44 to work.  Takes the same AT44 air sylinders as any other AT44, trigger works/tunes the same way, mags are the same, it just doesn't cycle the same way as the other rifles.

(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/25%20hatsan%2044PA/b5dcbdaa-d9d4-4274-8c2d-97ad927db64f.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/25%20hatsan%2044PA/b5dcbdaa-d9d4-4274-8c2d-97ad927db64f.jpg.html)


Kept it with that old-old Tasco full length 4X scope all the time I've had it....more power might be nice, but I use the rifle differently than most (more about plastering a grabage raiding racoon at 15-25 yards at night than shooting little critters at +60yards).


KInd of optimised the tuning to 45 foot pounds and about 2 mags of pellets for a "good" shot count ("good"meaning less than 4% beteen high and low shots in those 18-20 shots).

 Sorry about the 29 yeards...would have made it a nice 33 yards 1 foot (1/3 of 100) if I could have.

(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/25%20hatsan%2044PA/eab2e23e-6315-477e-a085-ba1561582c83.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/25%20hatsan%2044PA/eab2e23e-6315-477e-a085-ba1561582c83.jpg.html)


Yep...do find it a really good hunting rifle. Maybe less than ideal practice/target rifle,but it can do quite well if you limit it to the best-of-the-best area of the shot string/fill pressure and figure out to bench-bag it near the trigger guard and cycle the pump handle without disrupting your set on the sand bag.

As for the "chucka-chucka" sound of cycling the slide...have had several folks look over at me when I did that, wondering "Hey! is he shooting something I SHOULD PUT EAR MUFFS ON FOR?".  I'd not want to run a "bluff" that far, but if I heard that noice in the middle of the night, I'd beat feet rather than hang around to see if it wasn't a 12ga.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Machinist on March 16, 2019, 08:58:21 PM
Thanks for all the info Ribbonstone!!!  I'll read it again when I get the gun.

But back to the .22 vs .25 question, I wanted a .25 'cause it makes a bigger hole.

As far as ammo cost, I bought a bunch of AA 25.4 on sale for $10.19 per tin of 350.  That's 3 cents a pellet.

Steve
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Ribbonstone on March 16, 2019, 09:57:56 PM
Mine has been pretty accomodating about pellets.  Shoots a lot of the .25's well enough to use,with oinly a few that were hopeless.


But I did buy a spare air tube (and with the Hatsan,it comes with the valve system in place) and tune one for "slow"and one for "fast" (basically one for practice and one for critters).

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/25%20hatsan%2044PA/8abd9c76-03bb-4bbf-8c2b-66ee3649a961.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/25%20hatsan%2044PA/8abd9c76-03bb-4bbf-8c2b-66ee3649a961.jpg.html)

 "Fast tube"would be the air tube set up for the 41-44foot pound range.

(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/25%20hatsan%2044PA/548db81c-1212-4b44-8f24-38202f5e69be.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/25%20hatsan%2044PA/548db81c-1212-4b44-8f24-38202f5e69be.jpg.html)

This wsould be an example of the shot count with the "fast tube" in place.
(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/25%20hatsan%2044PA/dc337f10-4219-4f27-83f9-c0af17510ace.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/25%20hatsan%2044PA/dc337f10-4219-4f27-83f9-c0af17510ace.jpg.html)

Slow tube would be the same pellets with an air tube set up for the 20's in foot pounds:
(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/25%20hatsan%2044PA/8c2520ab-9ca6-4c33-8603-a56e9a15f6b2.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/25%20hatsan%2044PA/8c2520ab-9ca6-4c33-8603-a56e9a15f6b2.jpg.html)

This would be a shot count with the "slow tube".Certainly isn't fast,but it really does take care of the back yard uses of a .25 PCP:

(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/25%20hatsan%2044PA/a729ce68-887c-4f0a-ba27-7a7a545d4c98.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/25%20hatsan%2044PA/a729ce68-887c-4f0a-ba27-7a7a545d4c98.jpg.html)

And the 2nd-rate pellets were the leftovers that never really shot great in the other .25'salso didn't shoot well in this .25.

BUT..even with two seperate tubes/valves, it's a compromise. I could set it up to be faster/higher energy with ther "fast tube"...but it doesn't work so well with the slow tube.  Could set it up to work better with the "slkow tube" but it doesn't work as well with the fast tube.

The above is the mechanical setting that seems to be the best compromise with either tube...not as fast as it could be, not as slow as it could be, but the best I could come up with using both.

Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Machinist on March 16, 2019, 11:27:15 PM
Thanks for the extra info Ribbonstone.

The shot strings, targets and pellet info will help a lot.  I also have some 25.4 JSB and some Benjamins too.

Thanks Again,
Steve
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Ribbonstone on March 16, 2019, 11:35:26 PM
In that particular rifle (which may be totally different in yours) didn't seem to make enough difference in the three best shooting pellets...so it gets the less expensive Crosman/Benj. pellets nearly all the time.


With many things in life,I have to actually tell the difference to pay the difference. Might be pellets, or ammo, sound system, wine, burbon, or picture quaility..don't give a rat'srump what lab mesurments or "elietist" show to be "better"; if I can't see, hear, taste, or actually tell the difference... then it isn't worth the $.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Back_Roads on March 17, 2019, 10:13:25 AM
 I have the AT44 PA in .177,. My recommendation is to run some shot cycles with an empty mag to work the action and get a feel for it before shooting any pellets, this will help avoid accidental misfeeds. It has been a trouble free and fun gun in my experience.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: jimbo on March 17, 2019, 10:48:09 AM
The .25 gets my vote, I've got a .25 marauder and I just love it, it is a very accurate and powerful beast!
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Machinist on March 17, 2019, 01:18:50 PM
Thanks James,

I figured on doing just that.  Getting a feel for the pump mechanism before loading.  Glad you like yours.

To everyone else, sorry about the thread hijacking.

Steve
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: ShakySarge on March 17, 2019, 06:47:25 PM
.22 is a god starting choice. Plenty of available heavy .22 out there as well if you want something a bit more powerful for pesting and such. Most folks will eventually get a .25 within a couple years of getting a .22 but few rarely stop shooting the .22. I would certainly use a .22 up to coyote with JSB beasts on headshots so don't let the smaller caliber fool you.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: TNT.25 on March 20, 2019, 01:57:02 AM
I have got both .22 and .25 and if I had to make a choice of only one to keep it would be the .25, it just makes me smile more when shooting it.

Oh man, I double this statement, hearing that .25 make contact with a soft target is awesome.
I'm running the Mkll JSB Heavies 33.95gr pellets in my MRod they fly laser straight

Rich
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Relentless Holiday on March 20, 2019, 09:25:04 AM
The case for .22 has been spelled out pretty strong, listen.

I'll add that I personally keep selling off the .25s I get because of low shot count and ammo costs. "I just want one around" I think.

They sit...I sell...a year later I do it again. ...rinse, repeat.  It's like a revolving door on the rabbit hole. ...twilight zone episode nonsense for sure.  Don't be that guy.

.22 all the way unless it's a 98% hunting gun.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Farrier1 on March 20, 2019, 01:57:42 PM
^^^ I just bought my first PCP rifle and I went with .25 because I'm using it strictly for varmint removal

It took me a long time to even buy it because of the cost associated with PCP's. It didn't make sense to me at first simply because I could buy another quality rim fire for less.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: RDB on March 20, 2019, 04:14:57 PM
The case for .22 has been spelled out pretty strong, listen.

I'll add that I personally keep selling off the .25s I get because of low shot count and ammo cots. "I just want one around" I think.

They sit...I sell...a year later I do it again. ...rinse, repeat.  It's like a revolving door on the rabbit hole. ...twilight zone episode nonsense for sure.  Don't be that guy.

.22 all the way unless it's a 98% hunting gun.


I have to echo this statement. Had a cricket and a wildcat in 25. They never got used that much. Was really more power than i needed. I live on a few acres in a rural area...but i wouldn't dare take a shot at a squirrel in a tree. @ 900 fps that pellet can travel 646 yards :o  I can still swat pests at a 100 with my 22. But find myself really liking my 177 for anything inside 50 yards.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: bear air on March 20, 2019, 04:53:28 PM
My 22 marauder seems to be doing just fine with the 25.39 gr JSB's
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: [email protected] on March 21, 2019, 11:03:30 PM
I used to own a .22 Disco and various .22 break barrel rifles. Tons of varieties of pellet choice. Now I have upgraded to .25 Kral PB and haven't look back at the .22. Not much pellet choice in .25 but I have always stick to 2 types of pellet JSB Extact .25 as this give me the best accuracy and the Polymag for hunting. Between .22 and .25 - Ill go with the .25.

Ozzie
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on March 22, 2019, 11:02:49 AM
I used to own a .22 Disco and various .22 break barrel rifles. Tons of varieties of pellet choice. Now I have upgraded to .25 Kral PB and haven't look back at the .22. Not much pellet choice in .25 but I have always stick to 2 types of pellet JSB Extact .25 as this give me the best accuracy and the Polymag for hunting. Between .22 and .25 - Ill go with the .25.

Ozzie
Ozzie try the Air Arms 25.4gr pellets I get a littler groups out to 60 yards with the Air Arms pellets with my Evanix Air Speed .25
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: avator on March 22, 2019, 11:25:57 AM
Only one thing is for certain in the game of air guns. It's not a one and done deal by no means.
That in mind... if you have dreams and visions of big power then grab big power right from the git because you'll otherwise spend a bunch of money getting there.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Dbez1 on March 22, 2019, 12:48:24 PM
In January of 2017, I started a thread asking “What is your favorite caliber and why?”.  The results at that time indicated .25 slightly over .22 with .17 coming in third.  This was not a definitive poll as the number of participants was relatively low.  I suspect those results would be different in 2019. Like Ribbonstone,I’ve played that game and  my answer has changed from .25 to .22. I believe ones intended use dictates the choice and these change over time just like fashion. The airgun community seems to be leaning toward big power at this time but I expect that to change over the next couple years. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Nomadic Pirate on March 22, 2019, 12:48:52 PM
Only one thing is for certain in the game of air guns. It's not a one and done deal by no means.
That in mind... if you have dreams and visions of big power then grab big power right from the git because you'll otherwise spend a bunch of money getting there.


True dat !
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: avator on March 22, 2019, 12:55:20 PM
Only one thing is for certain in the game of air guns. It's not a one and done deal by no means.
That in mind... if you have dreams and visions of big power then grab big power right from the git because you'll otherwise spend a bunch of money getting there.


True dat !
He speaks from experience...... lol
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: bear air on March 22, 2019, 01:31:39 PM
I seem to actually be having better luck with my 22 over my 25. I'm sure it has something to do with the transfer of power. My 25 is at 50 fpe and my 22 is around 40. It seems that the 25 passes through the critter where the 22 seems to do more. I don't get it but that has been my recent practical experience. As for big power I have learned a lesson with my armada chasing big power while trying to maintain some what of a shot count it can be frustrating at best. Plus with the higher power means way more responsibility concerning safety. I think each air gun serves a purpose and its up to the owner to figure out what they intend to do with said air gun.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on March 22, 2019, 01:48:46 PM
Chris I agree  being responsible is extremely critical and the power should always be respected. That's why I always sight my guns at 10 yards I. The man cave for caliber size 10 shot groups then 25 yards in the backyard. I always know that there is adequate backstop or  nothing but trees behind my intended target
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: bear air on March 22, 2019, 02:15:48 PM
True that. Way too easy to hurt someone, damage property, or just plain get into trouble. Any one of these three would totally put a damper on the enjoying the air guns.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Dbez1 on March 22, 2019, 02:16:38 PM
...with the higher power means way more responsibility concerning safety. I think each air gun serves a purpose and its up to the owner to figure out what they intend to do with said air gun.
+1
I first got into airguns because, even though I live in a rural setting, I had to be careful what direction I was shooting with my.17HMR or even my .22 rimfire. With my airguns, I can safely shoot in any direction I want. This is not a slam of big power, I’m sure it has it’s place and people have legitimate reasons for going that direction vs PB. Heck, the Lewis and Clark expedition used a high power airgun to safely get through some potentially hostile territory. Sorry about the slight sidetrack!
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Farrier1 on March 22, 2019, 03:07:16 PM
+1
I first got into airguns because, even though I live in a rural setting, I had to be careful what direction I was shooting with my.17HMR or even my .22 rimfire. With my airguns, I can safely shoot in any direction I want.
[/quote]

This is the exact reason why I just bought a PCP. I literarily have no neighbors but there are homes close enough to kiss with a .17/.22
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: bear air on March 22, 2019, 04:23:15 PM
What kind you get Jason?
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: anti-squirrel on March 22, 2019, 07:11:51 PM
Looking at buying my first pcp. Hardest decision so far is what caliber. I am between the 22 and 25 cal.  I will be using mostly for target shooting and a little pest control.
I like to break things down, too...

Mostly Target Shooting and a Little Pest Control:

I'd go with either .177 or .22.  Why?  Mostly target shooting means lots of pellets.  .177 is cheapest per pellet, followed by .22, then .25.

A little pesting:

Either .177 or .22.  This means "not much pesting".  Does this indicate "large" varmints like raccoon or skunk or nutria?  Predators like coyote?  Small varmints like squirrel, mice, and pest birds?  OR what I deem midsize varmints like muskrat, rats, etc?  Sure, there's a lot of wiggle room in each group.  But a powerful .22 can handle all sizes and be cheaper to shoot per shot.

If I had to do it all over again, and my needs were the exact same (mostly target shooting and some pesting) I'd change nothing: I opted for an adjustable .177 that can handle small pests with ease and still make tiny groups in targets at 35 to 40 yards- limited by my own ability.  A good .22 PCP can be used in all those scenarios and reach out further and hit harder.  A .25, unless tuned down a fair bit, is going to likely be too much power unless your intention is long range pesting and target shooting. 

And two fundamental things to keep in mind: .25 needs more air and costs more per shot.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: thedude on March 22, 2019, 09:21:44 PM
Quote
And two fundamental things to keep in mind: .25 needs more air and costs more per shot.

I would really drive this point home: if you are hand pumping, the .25 gets really old, really quick.


Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: bear air on March 22, 2019, 09:36:50 PM
Yes it does... my armada doesn't see much shooting anymore since I did a power upgrade and tune. However my stock 22 marauder has been getting shot a lot lately. Even my storm rider is getting in on the action since I solved some issues it was having. In fact I pumped it up 3 or 4 times in the last couple days and wow it goes very quickly with such a small rifle lol. All things to think about when purchasing.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Ribbonstone on March 22, 2019, 10:23:38 PM
True....25's tend to use air.

 But it's not exactly because it is a .25.  Only natural for an airgunner to want more power from a .25 than a .22,and more power would use more air per shot. It just seems unnatural for .25 shooters to down tune to  lower power levels...it's just not how most airgunner's minds work.


Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: bear air on March 22, 2019, 10:33:32 PM
The nice thing about it is there a some really great refurb deals out there in 22 and 25. I'm glad I have both.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: redlined_b16a on March 22, 2019, 10:43:19 PM
I often thought of detuning a .25 caliber to shoot 19 grain ammo around 850-900 fps.
If I could find a 19 grain a .25 cal liked

But there are some 25 cals that already shoot that.
I currently get about 45 useable shots hunting out of a .25 caliber bullboss shooting 28 grains at 880-900 fps.
That is some fun power compared to my 33fpe .22
However I shot a rabbit at 82 yards with the .25 and 265 yards away that pellet hit the neighbors metal building after the rabbit and deflecting off of the ground.
Should have used softer JSB ammo instead of the benjimans.

So with more power you need to increase your safety.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Traum on March 23, 2019, 01:56:28 AM
My first was a mod .25. That being said the gain in fpe from a .22 can be quite minimal unless you venture into tuning it and shooting slugs. For instance my taipan veteran .22 stock shoots with more fpe than my .25 mrod stock after adjusting  to the Max for a tune.

Yes the guns are on 2 completely different levels high end and entry but that being said the .22 can hold its own.   
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Ribbonstone on March 23, 2019, 11:25:12 AM
Redkined_b16a:

Just somthing to think about.

Wanted a short range (30 yds and under) quiet rat-thumper, and thought about the .25 AT44PA...but didn't want to retune it just for a test.
Screwed in a worked over .177 Hatsan air tube into the .25Hatsan (plugged all but one valve port).  The tune wasn't the same  striker springs/striker/ any internal passages/transfer port,etc  were different for the two rifles....but the same tube/same one-port valve.

The .177 was made to shoot at about 14.5 foot pounds a good number of low varation shots(like 59 shots inside of 3%).
(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/pneuma/ac14b6a2-74f7-454b-86c1-76083301664e.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/pneuma/ac14b6a2-74f7-454b-86c1-76083301664e.jpg.html)


Just plugging that air tube into the .25 ended up with this:

(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/25%20hatsan%2044PA/fd89bf70-ed6b-42a0-9719-136a2a2a8c33.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/25%20hatsan%2044PA/fd89bf70-ed6b-42a0-9719-136a2a2a8c33.jpg.html)


BUT...it's a .25PCP...and being infected with .25PCP Syndrome, I just couldn't leave it like this for long....actually still a bit more power than the situation needed.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: scattermaster on March 23, 2019, 12:28:54 PM
I was looking at the Hatsan Flash, and was going to buy it in .25. Then I saw somewhere that the .25 has a loopy trajectory, whereas the .22 is flatter. I don't know if this holds true for other rifles, but it caused me to change my mind to .22, and that's what I ended up buying. Most of my shooting is going to be small pests at short range, or basement target shooting.
  "Loopy" ??
 In my mind they're all loopy, it's just a matter of how much.
 If you haven't already done so, download a trajectory app such as Chairgun and play with the numbers.  You'll be surprised at how much of an increase in velocity it takes to "flatten out" your trajectory.  The pellets in our typical speeds have quite an arc at longer ranges.  Between 15 and 40 yards you can use a variety of speeds with very little hold over/under.
   All that said, I have several .22's but I want to reach out a little farther now, soooo, I'm pretty sure a .25 will be in my cabinet as soon as I can get the funding.
 8)
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Farrier1 on March 23, 2019, 12:48:43 PM
What kind you get Jason?

I went with a AT44-10 QE. Hasn't been delivered yet  :'(
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: hanleyfan on March 23, 2019, 05:18:04 PM
if the .22 are more desirable why are the .25cal. always sold out first, every time there is a sale on a gun I am interested in the 25 cal. is sold out but are still available in .22cal. most of the time.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on March 23, 2019, 05:39:08 PM
 ;) I think it is largely due to the manufacturers and buying public looking at the many states that are falling in line with the many hunters who enjoy hunting with air guns. .25 and .30 or larger  The larger calibers just seem to be  more effective with larger game animals than the old stand by .22 that has worked so well with taking small game with air guns for many years.
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) on March 23, 2019, 09:10:01 PM
I ordered an FX Dreamline in .25 but mainly because it comes with the 290cc air tube instead of the 220cc air tube that comes with the .177 and .22. I plan on getting the .22 barrel when available, and figure the larger. Cylinder will get me more shots in the smaller calibers! 
Title: Re: 22 or 25 cal
Post by: wimpanzee on March 23, 2019, 09:33:05 PM
I ordered an FX Dreamline in .25 but mainly because it comes with the 290cc air tube instead of the 220cc air tube that comes with the .177 and .22. I plan on getting the .22 barrel when available, and figure the larger. Cylinder will get me more shots in the smaller calibers!

I did the same! Except with aspirations of a .30.