GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Projectiles => Pellet Review Gate => Topic started by: VaporTrail on September 11, 2018, 11:56:07 PM
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Shot them for a little over the weekend (before the typhoon hit us). What can I say? These things are quality all over. They loaded very easily into the Gamo Magnum...and she shot them with pretty good accuracy. 3 of them less than an inch at 15 yards....with iron sights.
Very consistent. The only flyer I had was probably due to the way I loaded it. After I made sure they were seated properly, repeatable accuracy.
And holy moly. For some reason or another, when Maggy was shooting the .28s, she was kicking like a mule. :o The impact on the target was a kicker too. You could tell they were hitting with some authority. Looks like I'll be ordering some more in the future.
Hats off to Nick!
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VaporTrail,
what FPE do you get on your Gamo Magnum?
How far have you tried each of them so far?
Have you done any BC measurements (I imagine that at lower speeds the BC is lower than the BC numbers from NSA)?
Did they fit fine into your breach?
I'm interested in giving NSA a try! Do they sell any samplers?
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Heyas Jungle Shooter!
- Maggy is getting about 28-29 FPE
- probably about 30-40 rounds of the 21gr and 20-30 rounds of the 28gr, all consistent at 20 yards. I haven't stretched them much further because I'm limiting myself to that yardage to maintain optimal FPE.
- I haven't done any BC measurements, but I can give you some numbers to run approximations:
21gr - ~745 FPS
28gr - ~630 FPS
- The 21gr will drop right in, and sometimes I think they'll fall out, but they never did. The 28gr stop right where the body starts, but they have no issues being pushed in. They're a nice fit; not too snug and definitely not loose.
- I recommend them whole-heartedly. They are quality rounds and the only critique that I can muster up about them is that I would want a solid point (instead of HP) and a harder lead for better penetration. They are accurate and quality rounds...and I treat them like gold. ;D The only variable is if your gun likes shooting them.
That being said, I have an offer: if you buy the sample pack in .22 and you are not happy? I will gladly buy the rest from you.
all the best,
paul
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Paul,
I just found the sample and made a slug list, NSA and Rat Sniper Slugs, and MrHollowPoint. And I'm sure there are more.
I understand you want max PHP (pig head penetration), right?
I'll be having an opportunity where penetration is also a concern, and also within those 20 yards.
But other than that, I'm interested in reaching out to 100y, 150y, and who knows....
And for that I need the high BC to buck the wind and the reduce the projectile drop over that long distance, I'm reaching the end of the elevation adjustment range of my scope real fast...!
Of course all those things don't really matter if the projectiles aren't accurate, so I really want to know how accurate they are at a distance.
About the slug sampler. Glad to help out with that if my results are lousy. But the choices are somewhat limited what is included in the sampler (bold are boattails, the others are flatbase):
21, 23, 27, 33
21, 23, 27, 28
23, 27, 28, 33
23, 27, 28, 32
27, 33, 28, 32
21, 27, 28, 32
What's missing is the 19 grain flatbases.
I'm tending toward the second set. Maybe we can buy two different sets, and I'll send you half of each?
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Hi Matthias...
Yes, max PHP is the goal. I hope your endeavor goes well, too. The NSA slugs are a softer lead, so I wouldn't use them for the bigger pigs, but if they're under 20 pounds? Those slugs are going to give little piggy quite the headache.
And it appears that my ranges are waaaay below what you need. :o 150 yards? Wow. Yes, at that range I'd assume that there's quite a lot of influences from the time the slug leaves the barrel to the time it impacts target.
Glad to be of help with the testing. Let me know what set to get and we can do a trade off. My Maggy may not be able to push some of the heavier slugs for optimal PHP, but she'll sling them hard enough to take care of these pesky feral cats.
Or, transversely...you can ask Mr. Nielsen if he'd be willing to put together a set for you. The worst that can happen is him saying "no". Just a thought.
I'm flexible with either option you decide to pursue. 8)
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Paul,
thanks for your advice, and of course you were right, Nick NSA will assemble any combination of slugs into a 100-piece sampler, so I got exactly what I needed.
Thinking about it -- if I test just one 10-shot group at 50 yards, and one at 100 yards, there isn't really going to be anything left to pass on to you, even if I'm not satisfied with the performance....
For your PHP project, I ran your numbers through ChairGun.
The 21gr starts out with 25.9FPE, and connects with piggy with 24.2FPE.
The 28gr boattail starts out with 24.7FPE, and meets piggy's head with 23.5FPE.
I had thought the boattail would give you more FPE at the target, but ChairGun corrected me... -- over such a short distance the difference in BC of 0.078 vs. 0.090 does not make that much of a difference.
Your hold overs and hold unders at this distance are minute, so if they are accurate in your gun, you'll get your pig, even if the distance is not 20y, but 10, 15, or 25.
Exciting prospects!
So, when are you planning your first move onto those pigs? Hope it'll work well for you (and not for the pigs)! ;D
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Matthias...
Glad to hear! Perhaps I should also check with Nick to see what kind of sampler pack I can put together. Not to worry if there's no leftovers...I'm just glad that you'll have the necessary material for your testing.
Thanks for that...I really appreciate it. 8) Interesting to see how that CG app works...and it now makes me wonder. Will 23 FPE be enough for PHP? The lead is soft, so I'm not too sure how good the penetration will be. I do have some wood here, so maybe I'll set that up at about 20 yards and see what the damage is.
Exciting indeed! We should be getting back into the norm of things pretty soon...I've been missing the jungle walks and stalking. We also have a ground blind, so maybe on the days where we're more tired than normal we can just hang out and relax while waiting for fresh porkchops to come around. ;D
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Good idea with the test on wood.
And then off to the local elimination house to get a real pig head! ;D
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Agreed...I need to get my hands on a pig head to do some testing. And also, I ordered 4 different tins of pellets from MidwayUSA, so I can't wait for the order to come in so I can test penetration, velocity and accuracy. 8)
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Matthias...
I was able to shoot out a little further this past weekend. I set up a coconut, and a golf ball on top of a can at 50 yards. The only target I was able to hit was the coconut (no husk, it was an old shell). I wasn't able to hit the golf ball, but to be fair, I didn't set up a target to see POI consistency.
I had a chance to shoot 14.66 H&N FTTs, 17.9 Sniper Magnums, 14.3 CPUM Domes, 18.52 Baracudas, 14.3 Gamo PBAs, 14.3 Crosman Piranhas, 21gr flat tail NSA Slugs and 28gr boat tail NSA Slugs.
What I did find that was interesting, was that past 30-35 yards, possibly 40, the pellets seemed to get pretty unstable. Instead of traveling in a straight line, they would actually start an upward and out to the left arc and then come back across the center line. Really visible on the all the skirted pellets, not as bad once the pellets started getting heavier. The Sniper Mags were still exhibiting that behavior, but it wasn't as pronounced. The Baracudas also didn't seem to have that bad of a spin. It really calmed down with the NSA slugs; the flat tails at 21 grains didn't loop as bad, and the 28 grain boat tails actually kept the closest to the center line.
The skirted pellets were going almost out of view of the scope; that's how bad it was. The 14 grainers were almost at the edge of view on the scope. The Sniper Mags were about halfway off between the center and the side.
So...is the Magnum accurate out to 50? Possible...but I'll need to to run several more tests before I can state something conclusive.
Jus thought you'd like to know. 8)
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I was able to shoot out a little further this past weekend. I set up a coconut, and a golf ball on top of a can at 50 yards. The only target I was able to hit was the coconut. I wasn't able to hit the golf ball.
What I did find that was interesting, was that past 30-35 yards, possibly 40, the pellets seemed to get pretty unstable. Instead of traveling in a straight line, they would actually start an upward and out to the left arc and then come back across the center line.
Really visible on the all the skirted pellets, not as bad once the pellets started getting heavier.
The Sniper Mags were still exhibiting that behavior, but it wasn't as pronounced. The Baracudas also didn't seem to have that bad of a spin.
It really calmed down with the NSA slugs; the flat tails at 21 grains didn't loop as bad, and the 28 grain boat tails actually kept the closest to the center line.
The skirted pellets were going almost out of view of the scope; that's how bad it was. The 14 grainers were almost at the edge of view on the scope. The Sniper Mags were about halfway off between the center and the side.
Interesting, Paul, thanks for the info!
I wonder what the ballistics are behind that phenomenon of spiraling of lighter pellets that you observed.
Bob Sterne explains that non-skirted projectiles must be more stabilized (through a higher twist rate of the barrel) than skirted pellets, especially as they slow down at longer distances.
Your observations were somehow different.
Some ideas what is going on here:
Your gun with 27-28FPE shoots the lighter pellets (14.3gr) close to the speed of sound, 930fps and higher, but not fast enough to get them knocked off their trajectory, I think.
However, light pellets are made for lower powered guns, and start out having less lead to work with, at least that's what I read here at GTA. Also, it seems that the lead of heavier pellets is harder (through a slightly different mix).
Both of these things result (at least for some pellets) in thinner softer skirts.
And those thinner softer skirts can be damaged by a high-powered gun.
Another explanation:
Let's be real -- not hitting a golf ball at 50y is no shame for a spring-powered gun! ;)
As a very high powered springer, the Gamo Magnum requires a super artillery-hold to get any kind of precision, and easily could have additional quirks (sometimes, a gun is a lemon).
And the Gamo does not come from one of those outrageously expensive German factories....
So, there's a bunch of factors that could be messing with your pellets.
I'm really glad to hear that the NSA slugs did better than the pellets. Mine will get to Peru sometime early next year, that's just how it worked out.
My own experience with pellets doing funny stuff is still quite limited.
I have shot half a dozen types of pellets out to 60y, and they all flew OK, though some grouped better than others.
But when I shot out to 75y, I couldn't get the H&N Sniper Light (14gr) not even on paper, whereas the JSB Domed (15.9gr) grouped well, 2-3" groups.
This was a low-powered springer (12-14FPE).
Unfortunately, I couldn't try the Sniper Magnums at the time, because the elevation adjustment range of my scope was maxed out. Now I finally have adjustable rings, now this is going to be fun! 8)
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Not a problem, Matthias. I wonder too what would be causing them to behave in that manner. I guess the pellets just aren't stable in design? Or maybe the Magnum is pushing them too fast? Or are they too light?
Perhaps it is a deformed skirt, like you mentioned. Perhaps this weekend I'll get a chance to set up a real target so that I can measure/capture POI and it's consistencies or lack thereof. At least I know it's pretty accurate up to about 30 yards.
Speaking of accuracy, it's a shame if these springers aren't expected to be accurate out to that far. I suppose I shouldn't be too worried; we don't have small game out here with the exception of some pheasants, and I doubt I'd wanna take a shot at them at that distance. Their head would be pretty small and that would pose a bit of a problem at that range.
Thankfully with the Magnum, she's not very hold sensitive. Artillery holds are acceptable, as long as you don't grip her too tight. She's not finicky about support orientation; she shoots well supported right in front of the trigger guard, and she shoots well supported midway down the stock or even at the end. What she's finicky about is grip, pull and weld. If any of those are too tight, she starts throwing shots. Give her a snug cuddle, and she responds lovingly. When I was attempting to shoot the golf ball, I was on a rest, so I know that she's consistently looping those lighter pellets.
I'll try some of those JSBs; they're actually going to be part of my next pellet order, which I'll be placing at the end of the week. I'll also probably place an order for those Sniper Lights.
And perhaps a PCP as well. ;D 8)
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Paul, for the wonderful variety of pellets that the industry has been blessing us with, the JSB pellets consistently prove to be the pellets that work well on most guns (exceptions always exist).
So, yeah, try the eight varieties of JSB (though the RS and the Express seem a little light for your powerful gun, and the Beast might give your spring a headache).
For a good overview of what's out there, you probably saw last month the comprehensive pellet list with BC numbers,
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=149053 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=149053)
I have become frustrated with spring-powered guns after less than a year into the hobby:
• They usually cannot reach our farther than say 50 yards consistently (lack of power, at least outdoors where we need high BC pellets/slugs to buck the wind -- and those are heavy, requiring high power).
This month I'll attempt the NUAH challenge, but only to see if I can do it, then I'll put that springer in the closet.
• They do not hit consistently -- unless I have the perfect hold (esp. the more powerful guns that I want for long range shooting) -- and perfect hold is very difficult in high stress situations of hunting and in an urban environment.
• These guns still cost so much money, yet in the areas that are important to me they have so little performance in comparison to a PCP.
• A springer advantage that is often mentioned is that the shooter is completely independent from needing and from lugging around other gear. Agreed. However, for me personally this is not very important. And carrying a pump, how hard can that be...? ;)
So, after looking at the facts I am convinced that for me only a PCP will do.
And all in all -- it seems like we are getting into the PCP game at a good time, with many manufacturers finally producing guns with good quality and plenty of features -- but without the outrageous profit margins that the high-end PCP manufacturers have been extracting from the airgun community for years! >:(
So, what PCP are you thinking? 8)
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Matthias, yes, you are right. I plan on picking up some of those JSBs and perhaps some Skencos. And perhaps some H&N Hornets. I don't think I saw that list, but now that you mention it, I'll be taking a look.
As for the springers, I'm sorry they frustrate you. True, the range can be limited and they can be quite fussy about how they're held, but my Magnum so far has been performing very well. There are proponents for each side of the discussion, and each has its merits. For myself, I think I would like to have a springer/gas ram rifle around the house, since it's easy to get it ready to shoot.
And what PCP? Hmm...I'm thinking a Sumatra .25 carbine for now. Next year will probably see me adding a big bore to the list. 8)
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PCP? Hmm... I'm thinking a Sumatra .25 carbine for now. Next year will probably see me adding a big bore to the list. 8)
Wow, I just checked and that Sumatra is like a 65FPE gun! Power house! Piiiiiiiiiiggs, here I come!!!!! ;D
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And with heavier grain pellets, that 65 FPE can increase. The piggies don't stand a chance!