HW98

[Deerstalker]

FWIW My HW95L .22 with an ARH kit and a Vortek seal averages just over 17 FPE or 23 Joules.  Cocking cycle is soundless until the piston rod latches in the trigger.  I polished the grooves on each side of the cocking shoe when installing the ARH kit.  Shot cycle is a sharp thud.  10 shot spread is 7 FPS with FTT 14.66 5.53 mm pellets.

[Frenchcaster]

Hey Dave,
Thank you that’s a helpful reference point. Since mine is in .177, I think it’s on par. I’ll try it later today with the new Vortek seal, just got it a minute ago.
Cheers
A.

[Frenchcaster]

She’s stabilizing nicely where I thought she would with the VAC seal. About 100 shots in, trying a few different pellets.
With Baracuda FT 9.57 gr:
Shot count: 14
Low: 821
Hi: 828
Avg: 826
Spread: 7
STD Dev: 2.1

That’s about 14.5 FPE.

Looking good. Grouping well with most pellets I’ve tried. Requires my full attention for accuracy at this point, but very rewarding.

Cheers
A.

[Frenchcaster]

Just a bit of an update. I am playing with Vortek kits.

The HO kit is stiff and jumpy out of the box. But the shot cycle is awesome and I love that sharp "TCHAK" cycle. It iOS shooting 14.5-15fpe with heavies (CPH, Baracuda Match) and 15-16 fps with lighter fare. I think one coil off may tame the beast and make it more accurate in my hands. At this level it is not a bag rest rifle.

I tried a low output (12 fpe) kit. It is shooting 11-11.5 fps, so right on the money. Much milder of course, but I don't like the shot cycle as much. I get better accuracy of course.

The low output kit with one 1/8" metal washer and one delrin ARH washer reaches 12.5-13 fpe. I like the cycle a little better with that added preload and piston weight.

Basically at low output I feel that the cycle is not that great and I am holding the gun back. At high output I love the sharp quick cycle but am not getting good enough accuracy.

I have a shot stroke kit coming from TbT in the next few days, I want to experiment with that with both the low and the high output Vortek kits, see how the gun responds.

For now, she seems to be settling on Baracuda Match 10.65Gr, Baracuda FT 9.57Gr, and FTT 8.64Gr in that order. She does surprisingly well at least at shorter distances with the Crosman Premier Heavy. I haven't tried that one too much to not mix leads. I think the gun likes heavies better (but sprays AA 10.3Gr like birdshot). everything I try under 9.57 Gr doesn't do too well.

I will keep playing. If the short stroke kit does not yield good results, I will trim the high output Vortek a bit, I would like to keep this gun around 14fpe with a milder cycle so I can bench rest it if I want to.

This is fun.

To finish for today, here are two targets shot at the end of the day with Baracuda Match at 59yards, shouldered with forestock on a bag with the low output kit and washers. those are very good for me. 10 shots each. On the first target there are actually 11 shots, the stray one on the right side of the group is a called pull.

I am loving this thing. She might end up needing a name.

Cheers

A.

[Bayman]

Having a long slow shot cycle to decrease power doesn't appeal to me either. You should be able to get good accuracy in the 14.5-15 fpe range with that gun. It will take a little bit of concentration but you'll still have a nice quick shot cycle.

Be careful that the gun isn't dieseling. Dieseling will tank your accuracy. It's also more prone to dieseling at higher power levels. Dieseling is sometimes the accuracy thief and not the increase in power level.

I have a 15 fpe 177 Hw95 and a 16fpe 20 caliber R9 that shoot very well at those power levels. I feel it's in part to the fact I build clean running guns. I'm currently wrestling with a Vortek kit and a 22 Hw95 and I'll see how that one works out.

Sounds like you're enjoying your gun. Keep us in the loop. I'm curious about the the details and results of your destroking efforts.

Be well
Ron

Ps stay away from the Crosman and try some more mid 8 and 9 grain pellets. Those guns usually loose efficiency with heavy pellets. That efficiency loss is usually due to piston bounce which can hurt accuracy as well.

[Bayman]

Excellent shooting btw.

[Hoosier Daddy]

FYI:
My HW98 in .177 prefers the H&N FTT 8.64g in 4.52 head size.
YMMV
 

[Yogi]

Just a bit of an update. I am playing with Vortek kits.

The HO kit is stiff and jumpy out of the box. But the shot cycle is awesome and I love that sharp "TCHAK" cycle. It iOS shooting 14.5-15fpe with heavies (CPH, Baracuda Match) and 15-16 fps with lighter fare. I think one coil off may tame the beast and make it more accurate in my hands. At this level it is not a bag rest rifle.

I tried a low output (12 fpe) kit. It is shooting 11-11.5 fps, so right on the money. Much milder of course, but I don't like the shot cycle as much. I get better accuracy of course.

The low output kit with one 1/8" metal washer and one delrin ARH washer reaches 12.5-13 fpe. I like the cycle a little better with that added preload and piston weight.

Basically at low output I feel that the cycle is not that great and I am holding the gun back. At high output I love the sharp quick cycle but am not getting good enough accuracy.

I have a shot stroke kit coming from TbT in the next few days, I want to experiment with that with both the low and the high output Vortek kits, see how the gun responds.

For now, she seems to be settling on Baracuda Match 10.65Gr, Baracuda FT 9.57Gr, and FTT 8.64Gr in that order. She does surprisingly well at least at shorter distances with the Crosman Premier Heavy. I haven't tried that one too much to not mix leads. I think the gun likes heavies better (but sprays AA 10.3Gr like birdshot). everything I try under 9.57 Gr doesn't do too well.

I will keep playing. If the short stroke kit does not yield good results, I will trim the high output Vortek a bit, I would like to keep this gun around 14fpe with a milder cycle so I can bench rest it if I want to.

This is fun.

To finish for today, here are two targets shot at the end of the day with Baracuda Match at 59yards, shouldered with forestock on a bag with the low output kit and washers. those are very good for me. 10 shots each. On the first target there are actually 11 shots, the stray one on the right side of the group is a called pull.

I am loving this thing. She might end up needing a name.

Cheers

A.

I put a tbt short stroke kit in my HW 50.  That is for my 8fpe 10M gun though....

-Y

[Frenchcaster]

FYI:
My HW98 in .177 prefers the H&N FTT 8.64g in 4.52 head size.
YMMV
 

for now, mine does ok but not best with any of the sizes I have (4.50, 4.51, 4.52). It seems to be enjoying baracuda FT and AA 4.51 (8.4 Gr).

Having a long slow shot cycle to decrease power doesn't appeal to me either. You should be able to get good accuracy in the 14.5-15 fpe range with that gun. It will take a little bit of concentration but you'll still have a nice quick shot cycle.

I am hoping for about 14fpe for distance, but my goal is accuracy with this one. so I would take less if I absolutely have to.

Be careful that the gun isn't dieseling. Dieseling will tank your accuracy. It's also more prone to dieseling at higher power levels. Dieseling is sometimes the accuracy thief and not the increase in power level.

I was worried about that, I have been cleaning thoroughly between adjustments and lubing ever less. I may try Krytox at some point but I have so much good looking dinosaur grease...

I have a 15 fpe 177 Hw95 and a 16fpe 20 caliber R9 that shoot very well at those power levels. I feel it's in part to the fact I build clean running guns. I'm currently wrestling with a Vortek kit and a 22 Hw95 and I'll see how that one works out.

Wrestling is the correct word.I am struggling a bit with the Vortek steel sleeve - see below. But my JPA tuned .22 R9 with Vortek kit is awesome.

Sounds like you're enjoying your gun. Keep us in the loop. I'm curious about the the details and results of your destroking efforts.

I am certainly enjoying the challenges, and the frustrations. I am still waiting for the TbT destroke kit. as soon as I have it I will experiment. It is the only reason I haven't tried to cut 1/2-1 coil off the full power vortek.

Ps stay away from the Crosman and try some more mid 8 and 9 grain pellets. Those guns usually loose efficiency with heavy pellets. That efficiency loss is usually due to piston bounce which can hurt accuracy as well.

Yes, the fps drops pretty fast once I get into 10grain land. But I had some great accuracy a few times with the baracuda Match. Oy.  More testing to do. Am I correct that I can increase the piston weight (heavy washers or top hat) to counter bounce if the gun ends up having a strong preference for heavies?

Cheers
A.

[Frenchcaster]

As to current state of affairs, this gun is definitely giving me food for thought, frustration and happiness.
I was shooting for a while (a few hundred pellets) with the high output Vortek. Velocities dropped and cocking became un-smooth.

After full explore of innards and outtards, I found horrific galling of the breech hinge (looks like a small piece of metal, likely from the machining of the hinge threads, worked its way through the moly between the shim and breech block. I have both some brass McMasterCarr 0.1mm washers and OEM shims on their way.
That however proved not to be the main (velocity) issue. What I thought was normal contact wear of the Vortek steel sleeve did not disappear with mirror polish of the cocking shoe and a nice ARH button on the back end of the piston. Turns out there was a nasty burr and tight spot inside the piston, at the back end of the cocking slot. I had deburred but not effectively due to the case hardening, and the punching process had created a significant inwards lip of the back of the cocking slot. I dealt with that with files and sandpaper.

We are smooth again, but either I am, or the gun is, less accurate right now. I have shot at least a couple tins or more through the gun, so maybe a barrel clean is due. I am wondering about a barrel fire lap with 400 grit and bore waxing per previous threads. Will start with just cleaning.

For now, I am just waiting for parts before I do anymore, I especially want to avoid galling anymore the breech block.

This is interesting. This is both the most accurate out of the box gun I have had, and the most problem-laden. I really feel that if I had just "kept shooting" the thing it would have galled itself into a puddle of dieseling metal grit.

Cheers

A.