GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => Gamo & Spanish AirGun Gate => Topic started by: A.K.A. Tommy Boy on March 22, 2023, 04:36:22 PM
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I have been intrigued by this rifle ever since I first read about it.
My problem is I know absolutely Nothing about Norica air rifles.
I have this one in the cart at PA for 399.99 & free shipping.
I have never spent this much money on an air rifle before, ever.
The total expenditure for all my rifles comes to $577.
I'm retired and this would be a big purchase for me.
I know that this rifle just hit the market and there is very little first hand information on it.
I need to get some input on Norica air rifles in general from Norica owners.
Best Wishes - Tom
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IIRC theyve been available in Europe for a while
2 reasons Ive not already ordered one (and have wanted one since I heard about them) ... Its a gas ram... the ram will eventaully fail, and not real assured I could source a replacement, and the LoP is not adjustable.
Not sure how hard it would be to swap a spring for the ram, but the non-adjustable buttstock is a deal breaker. OTOH after some get into folks' hand and we get some real world feed back, I may change my mind...
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IIRC theyve been available in Europe for a while
2 reasons Ive not already ordered one (and have wanted one since I heard about them) ... Its a gas ram... the ram will eventaully fail, and not real assured I could source a replacement, and the LoP is not adjustable.
Not sure how hard it would be to swap a spring for the ram, but the non-adjustable buttstock is a deal breaker. OTOH after some get into folks' hand and we get some real world feed back, I may change my mind...
Dan there is some information in this post about swapping out the gas ram for a spring.
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjD8Of8sPD9AhWCI30KHTk7C6AQFnoECCgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gatewaytoairguns.org%2FGTA%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D195221.40&usg=AOvVaw1K-dbMM_rZDwRrvD8y1Gg3 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjD8Of8sPD9AhWCI30KHTk7C6AQFnoECCgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gatewaytoairguns.org%2FGTA%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D195221.40&usg=AOvVaw1K-dbMM_rZDwRrvD8y1Gg3)
The info comes from the guy who actually designed this rifle.
There is also info about a trigger mod for anyone interested in that.
Best Wishes - Tom
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Oh, that's a zero recoil airgun. That's something special for sure, like the Diana/RWS 54. From the specs I read it is a hard hitter too !
Norica is a well respected Spanish brand in Europe. If I would position the brand it sits in between Gamo and Cometa. But closer to Cometa than to Gamo.
I am sure aceros-de-hispania.com can provide you parts if needed. Gasram... spring piston... who cares. Eventually both can fail.
Buy once, cry once. Especially since you're retired. You still can enjoy your most wanted Norica ;)
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Thanx Tom.... sounds easy enough to replace the ram with a spring. Yea it can fail, but Ive had better luck finding springs than replacement rams....
now what can be done about the buttstock.... first glance I thought maybe you could cut the buttstock off and slide a AR buffer tube over the stub, and secure it, then use a common AR buttstock.
looking deeper that part seems bigger around than I first thought.
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Thanx Tom.... sounds easy enough to replace the ram with a spring. Yea it can fail, but Ive had better luck finding springs than replacement rams....
now what can be done about the buttstock.... first glance I thought maybe you could cut the buttstock off and slide a AR buffer tube over the stub, and secure it, then use a common AR buttstock.
looking deeper that part seems bigger around than I first thought.
Dan
It looks like an adapter would have to be made that fits into the rear of the rifles action. One that can transition to an AR style buttstock.
If you had the measurements, it would probably be doable on a 3-D printer.
Best Wishes - Tom
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I have been intrigued by this rifle ever since I first read about it.
My problem is I know absolutely Nothing about Norica air rifles.
I have this one in the cart at PA for 399.99 & free shipping.
I have never spent this much money on an air rifle before, ever.
The total expenditure for all my rifles comes to $577.
I'm retired and this would be a big purchase for me.
I know that this rifle just hit the market and there is very little first hand information on it.
I need to get some input on Norica air rifles in general from Norica owners.
Best Wishes - Tom
Tom,
IMO hold your money and WAIT for reviews.
I don't doubt a recoil-less springer MAY potentially be easier to shoot more accurately, but for $400 for I'm not buying.
I have many Norica coil spring and several GRS (their version NP) break-barrel rifles as well. They are SOLID good shooting break barrels. Quality level on par with the "better" rifles I've received from Hatsan. All mine (except 1) were purchased off of Amazon for $50-$70. All (except 1) have hard direct sear non-adjustable triggers. Even though the triggers are HARD, they are predictable and consistent. After some finger-training I can shoot these HARD triggers very well. If I couldn't I'd have stopped buying these Noricas after the first rifle even at those bargain prices.
The 1 Norica was purchased from a fellow GTA member and I gladly went over $100 for it since it has a much better trigger and a nicer stock.
IMO this new rifle is a $100, ~20fpe, GRS (NP) powered break-barrel action installed in a $300 zero(?)-recoil sled synthetic stock. Nothing here makes me want to buy one.
When this rifle doesn't sell well I may CAVE and buy one on clearance if UNDER $130. If anyone buys one and does a complete teardown-tuneup video on youtube that may be enough to satisfy my curiosity. Then I wouldn't even want one for the clearance price :-)
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Hi Mikeyb
I read that the Omnia is based on the Norica Hawk? Do you have one? how is the accuracy?
If not, how are the accuracy for the Noricas that you currently own. 1/2" at 20 yards? (maybe better?)
The reason I'm asking is that ...I'm very very interested in one (if the accuracy is there)
It's recoilless like the RWS 54. But the major difference is that you can use a budget scope with the Omnia...a huge plus in my book over the RWS 54...if the Omnia can group.
Another reason is that I was wondering if the stock shell can be modify to fit other rifles...like a TX 200.
I've seen the earlier and original prototype. I found some Youtube videos of examples of these with TX200 as the action. I think back in 2019? someone was shooting this recoilless Tx200 in world WFTF competition?
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Purchased new since 2017. Hard to find now, but no great loss really. MANY air rifles out there as good or better.
I DON'T regret buying these as they are good [b[bargain[/b] break-barrels.
(1) Norica Dragon 0.177 Cal Air Rifle - 57.45
(2) Norica Dragon GRS* Evolution** 0.177 Cal Air Rifle - $60.80
(3) Norica Dragon GRS* Evolution** Max*** Air Rifle .177 Cal - $57.37
(2) Norica Spider GRS* Air Rifle .177 Cal - $61.87
(1) Norica Atlantic Hunting Air Rifle - $52.94
* GRS ~ NP
** Evolution = shrouded barrel providing some moderation (not really needed)
*** Max = Evolution shroud barrel moderator with LARGER moderator section (not really needed again)
Correction below after I went back into my emails and purchase history...
"The 1 Norica was purchased from a fellow GTA member and I gladly went over $100 to $80 for it since it has a much better trigger and a nicer stock."
Used (Excellent condition!):
(1) Norica Black Eagle .177 - $80.00
Using the open sights, which I like better than some of my Hatsans, I can get 10 shot 3/8" groups at 10 yards. That's my normal indoor range here in a city location. Even with that 8-10 lb trigger! I have pested a few birds at ~20 yards at a rural location. Center mass shots that dropped immediately.
I am not familiar with the Norica Hawk rifle.
I still say WAIT for reviews. I think this is an expensive solution looking for a non-existent problem. However it's your money and you know your own preferences better than I ;-)
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I agree with MikeyB. Wait for awhile until others have bought them to get real world reviews and knowledge about the rifle. I really wish I would have followed that advice before I bought my Aspen. I never would of bought it and saved myself $400 paper weight.
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Tom Gaylord just started a review on one. Looks like a 12 ft lb gun. May be better in .177 if it can deliver with accuracy.
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Mikey,
The prices you quote for your Noricas (and Chinese guns, and Hatsans, and... I digress) are simply incomprehensible around here (Old World). The only time anything ends up even close to them is when a retailer clears out some brand altogether (it happens maybe once every several years), and usually not even then. Around 100 e is the absolute bottom price on any but the cheapest Chinese filth. Entry-level Noricas fetch around 130 - 150 e and up. Kinda puts a lid on wildly experimenting on different brands and models. But I'm happy you have it good!
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Tom Gaylord just started a review on one. Looks like a 12 ft lb gun. May be better in .177 if it can deliver with accuracy.
Thank you Cliff for the information about Tom Gaylords blog review of this rifle.
I did not know that it existed.
I just finished reading both Part 1 and Part 2
Best Wishes - Tom
Here is a link to Tom Gaylord's Blog on this rifle for anyone interested. > https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwij_eGt0PL9AhWFk2oFHQAFCeEQFnoECAgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pyramydair.com%2Fblog%2F&usg=AOvVaw1u2vuyhe9mQ7ldvVzNu38L (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwij_eGt0PL9AhWFk2oFHQAFCeEQFnoECAgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pyramydair.com%2Fblog%2F&usg=AOvVaw1u2vuyhe9mQ7ldvVzNu38L)
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Time to check Youtube and all the comments for the video's ?
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=norica+omnia+grs (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=norica+omnia+grs)
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Time to check Youtube and all the comments for the video's ?
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=norica+omnia+grs (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=norica+omnia+grs)
Wow this is GREAT ! Thank you Rudy !
Best Wishes - Tom
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Tommy Boy
If you have the funds and youve been intrigued, go for it. You can be the first in GTA to put out a review on one. For $399., well if you dont like it, thats a couple days of tears but still, an Air Rifle is an Air rifle, end of the day it still slings lead. Buying it will make it stop bothering your mind. And once you recieve it, the fun begins , .
Goodluck in your choices, Mr Tommy Boy
NVak
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Mikey,
The prices you quote for your Noricas (and Chinese guns, and Hatsans, and... I digress) are simply incomprehensible around here (Old World). The only time anything ends up even close to them is when a retailer clears out some brand altogether (it happens maybe once every several years), and usually not even then. Around 100 e is the absolute bottom price on any but the cheapest Chinese filth. Entry-level Noricas fetch around 130 - 150 e and up. Kinda puts a lid on wildly experimenting on different brands and models. But I'm happy you have it good!
Starting a little off topic (sorry guys) but I'll justify at the end. I've found that Amazon here in the US uses some form of pricing algorithm that occasionally ratchets down the price of an item to clear warehouse space for a NEW item that makes them more profit. I've learned to WATCH items I'm interested in for the day when Amazon's algorithm decides to dump that item. I keep a price/value in mind and if the price-drop hits my number, I "pull the trigger". Kind of like bidding an EBAY auction in reverse? ;-)
The prices on those Noricas I got were STILL dropping on Amazon when I pulled the trigger and checked out. I've purchased MANY rifles from Amazon like that at silly low prices. I've also waited a hair too long and LOST MANY MORE cheap rifles to other savvy buyers who were willing to spend a couple $ more than I did. I've acquired NEW Hatsan Edge combos for $55, some Beeman RS1 springers for about the same, several NEW Hatsan Mod125 combos for $92, a couple new Crosman 2100 pumpers for $30, and a few PCPs for half the normal price. Most of my other springers are factory refurbs for only few dollars more or less. The point is "I" think a basic springer (steel coil spring , air spring, or gas spring) is worth no more than $100 to ME.
Back to this new springer. From watching the videos it appears to be a basic springer where the compression tube "slides" inside another tube to absorb the recoil so the shooter never feels the recoil. If you watch the videos closely you will see the barrel/compression-tube/trigger all JUMP back to absorb the recoil. Scope mounted to dovetail on the STATIONARY tube does not appear to move. That doesn't seem to be an accuracy problem to me IF the the sliding tolerances are small AND everything RESETS to EXACTLY the same spot before every shot.
I'm not a fan of tacticool air rifles in general and don't like the aesthetics of this particular design. One of BB's commentators called it fugly and I concur. Specs suggest this might be like a Hatsan Edge at 20fpe, but BB's testing so far makes it a 12fpe rifle?
Novel idea, just not one I'm interested in acquiring for the current asking price of $400. However... if this shows up for sale on Amazon and the pricing algorithm starts ratcheting down below $130 I'll start actively watching... and I may even put one in my shopping cart once it hits $100.
I still think Tom should wait for full review before jumping on this rifle.
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I did some price checking.
Here is the European price from Aceros de Hespania in Spain. €382.51 = $413.89 (current exchange rate)
The cheek riser is sold separately as an add-on option.
The picture shows a scope but a scope is not included, that is sold separately too.
They ship world wide but I have not checked on shipping to the U.S.A.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiEwKWgsvP9AhVJkokEHQGXC-cQFnoECDUQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aceros-de-hispania.com%2Fen%2F20941-norica-omnia-zrs-air-rifle.html&usg=AOvVaw0DIf4I1xmiiaFQ6W_mfv5- (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiEwKWgsvP9AhVJkokEHQGXC-cQFnoECDUQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aceros-de-hispania.com%2Fen%2F20941-norica-omnia-zrs-air-rifle.html&usg=AOvVaw0DIf4I1xmiiaFQ6W_mfv5-)
Best Wishes - Tom
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"If you had the measurements, it would probably be doable on a 3-D printer."
yea had thought of that. still need the rifle though :) gotta wonder about the long term viability of an FDM part on that area of the gun. gonna be a lot of stress and torque on it. Resin of MJF might be a better choice. but have a buffer tube and stock around, so just quality time with the calipers and Fusion would sort that out....
But as Mikey suggested, I think I'll wait a bit and see what real word feedback says. and maybe itll get cheaper thru that time....
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Tommy Boy,
After having an evening to think it through, putting myself in your shoes over this AG. Im having a hard time to justify the cost of a 12 FPE GasRam at the current prices listed. Also parts might be hard to get??
All of your Airguns are hunters with enough power to drop what you persue. At 12 FPE youd have a little less range, though being "recoilless" it might be accurate?
Idk, even if it was at half the price id still have trouble pressing the order button on this model. Goodluck Tommy Boy in your choices
NVak
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Jim, I saw that vid
the TX "Version" of that looked a lot differnt IIRC. Only other mention I could find at the time was an Italian FT blog, which I cant find now
Like you I hope some one makes a TX drop in setup.
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I decided I am going to wait and see how this rifle pans out for other people.
I removed it from my cart and put it on my... Wish List. ;)
I thank everyone for all their input and replies.
Best Wishes - Tom
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I decided I am going to wait and see how this rifle pans out for other people.
I removed it from my cart and put it on my... Wish List. ;)
I thank everyone for all their input and replies.
Best Wishes - Tom
Tom,
Go ahead and buy it! If you do not like it and sell it. If you take a loss, I will contribute $100 or the amount of your loss. I wan tto hear an honest report on this breakthrough gun.
I know you would provide that. Please PM me for details...
-Y
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Idk, even if it was at half the price id still have trouble pressing the order button on this model.
Yeah, at 200 bucks the Omnia would start to gather interest, is my feel as well.
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recoiless Norica Omnia ZRS zero recoil system from Pyramid. Mine arrives Thursday.
Got the rifle tested. Here is some relevant info.
Owners manual said "if bench resting place the forearm on something soft." I tested with the rifles center of gravity on a wadded up T shirt on top of a Caldwell front rest sand bag. I thought this would be best for harmonics. Cleaned the barrel and mounted a Burris 8-32 X 44 R/A rimfire/airgun scope on it. Tested in my basement at 32X power and at 50 feet.
830 f.p.s., 12.8 ft/lbs with JSB 8.4, Trigger gauge read 4 pounds and creepy non-adjustable trigger. I tested 6 different pellets JSB 8.4 and Air Arms were best. All shots were inside a 7/16" circle with 80 per cent inside 3/8" I felt like it could be compared to a untuned Diana 34.
Tom Gaylord's blog said his trigger was 2 lb 8 oz. I will have to test mine again.
My very first 12 ft/lb recoilless rifle was bought back in the mid 90's. Quite a few Field Target shooters were using the Giss System recoilless Park 93. I loved that rifle. But everybody stopped selling parts .
I hope this gives you guys some good info on the Omnia.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=206796.msg156430435#msg156430435 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=206796.msg156430435#msg156430435)
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I coppie this information from the Yellow.
kijoseki
kijoseki
(@kijoseki)
Member of Trade
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 16
kijoseki - Facebook
March 25, 2023 10:09:02
Hi Mates!
Maybe I can answer some questions about Omnia ZRS because I'm the designer of all about it, except action.
Trigger is completely adjustable: there are two small nohead screws inside blade to do it. Besides, inside the spring that theoretically adjust the pull force, there is an smaller and harder spring that Norica inserts to limit the lowest force. So you can take it off and tou will have a trigger so soft as you want.
Stock was designed as two parts in line, but Norica wants to have open sights, so stock has to do a curve to lower the cheek. it is truth that the adjustable cheekpiece is useful only to shoot with scope: with open sights is better to take it off.
Grip is original from ZRS, designed by the same person who design grips and handguards for Anschutz and Feinwerkbau guns. It is ambidextrous.
Check the chamber because Norica makes it a little narrow: sometimes needs to refit manually with a 60° drill, 6mm diameter, some 1/10mm only. After that, brush the chamber.
If you have more questions, do not hesitate to ask me.
Thank you for your interest in this airgun.
Greetings from Spain.
https://airgunwarriors.com/community/airgun-talk/norica-omnis-zrs-purchase/
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I'd hold off and wait for some real "state side" reviews. I see PA and Airgun Depot now sell Norica. I looked this A.M. on both websites. Not 1 review....of ANY Norica rifles......off either website. Crickets. Nobody stateside is buying Norica? Why? Be careful Tommy, let somebody else be the "crash test dummy" imho.
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Norica's have been available in the U.S. on an on / off basis. PA had them around 2010, for instance. They are definitely not new. (Norica has been building springers since 1917, FWIW).
Noricas have been discussed even on this forum quite a bit. Active members here have them. Norica's top of the line springer, Norica Storm, is as good as any comparable breakbarrel out there, by the many reports I've seen, while their more entry level guns are a solid bang for the buck.
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I am tempted to get one, looks like a neat gun and not too over priced ??? Something different for sure.
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I am tempted to get one, looks like a neat gun and not too over priced ??? Something different for sure.
Be the GTA "guinea pig" and give us a review after you buy it. You'll be a forum hero, we'll sing songs in your praise!
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It's a long lasting and well respected brand in Europe. The recoilless system is not exactly something new or innovative (FWB300, D75, D54, Hatsan 25 etc etc). So what is the deal for being guinea pig then ?
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I have the Omnia ZRS in .177 for about a week. The first thing I did after unboxing was shoulder the rifle and TRY to aquire the open fiber optic sights. Unbelievably, you can't acquire unless you remove the cheekpiece. Tom Gaylord said the same. I put on a quality scope and tested it at 50 feet basement with 8.4 JSB at 830 f.p.s. 12.8 ft/lbs. Trigger scale says 4 lbs. Tom Gayord's is 2 lb 8 oz. Trigger is adjustable but no instructions' in the one page owner's manual. Accuracy at 50 feet ALL shots into 7/16 inch and 80 per cent into 3/8 inch. JSB and Air Arms 8.4 best with 10.4 pellets good also.
To test the recoil system I balanced 3 pellets on top of each other and placed them on top of my elevation knob on the scope. I took a shot and the pellets were undisturbed.
By the way, in Spain they don't sell the rifle with a cheekpiece. I would compare this rifle with a tuned Diana 34 with creepy trigger.
I will eventually get the trigger figured out and I will be happy. I intend to remove the scope and put on a nice German peep sight. I assume I will be able to aquire the front sight with the cheekpiece on.
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I have the Omnia ZRS in .177 for about a week. The first thing I did after unboxing was shoulder the rifle and TRY to aquire the open fiber optic sights. Unbelievably, you can't acquire unless you remove the cheekpiece. Tom Gaylord said the same. I put on a quality scope and tested it at 50 feet basement with 8.4 JSB at 830 f.p.s. 12.8 ft/lbs. Trigger scale says 4 lbs. Tom Gayord's is 2 lb 8 oz. Trigger is adjustable but no instructions' in the one page owner's manual. Accuracy at 50 feet ALL shots into 7/16 inch and 80 per cent into 3/8 inch. JSB and Air Arms 8.4 best with 10.4 pellets good also.
To test the recoil system I balanced 3 pellets on top of each other and placed them on top of my elevation knob on the scope. I took a shot and the pellets were undisturbed.
By the way, in Spain they don't sell the rifle with a cheekpiece. I would compare this rifle with a tuned Diana 34 with creepy trigger.
I will eventually get the trigger figured out and I will be happy. I intend to remove the scope and put on a nice German peep sight. I assume I will be able to aquire the front sight with the cheekpiece on.
DonC,
Please let use know what mods you make to the trigger and how effective they are.
Post pictures too... :D
-Y
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I have the Omnia ZRS in .177 for about a week. The first thing I did after unboxing was shoulder the rifle and TRY to aquire the open fiber optic sights. Unbelievably, you can't acquire unless you remove the cheekpiece. Tom Gaylord said the same. I put on a quality scope and tested it at 50 feet basement with 8.4 JSB at 830 f.p.s. 12.8 ft/lbs. Trigger scale says 4 lbs. Tom Gayord's is 2 lb 8 oz. Trigger is adjustable but no instructions' in the one page owner's manual. Accuracy at 50 feet ALL shots into 7/16 inch and 80 per cent into 3/8 inch. JSB and Air Arms 8.4 best with 10.4 pellets good also.
To test the recoil system I balanced 3 pellets on top of each other and placed them on top of my elevation knob on the scope. I took a shot and the pellets were undisturbed.
By the way, in Spain they don't sell the rifle with a cheekpiece. I would compare this rifle with a tuned Diana 34 with creepy trigger.
I will eventually get the trigger figured out and I will be happy. I intend to remove the scope and put on a nice German peep sight. I assume I will be able to aquire the front sight with the cheekpiece on.
Get back to us after you shoot it at distance please. No mention of the trigger in the 1 page owners manual?
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Pending confirmation...
It really "looks" like the old Beeman RS2 / Tech Force 89 trigger. I have one Beeman RS2 trigger. If this is in the Omnia then it can be adjusted to achieve a fairly nice trigger. Something I would HOPE is possible for a $400 springer.