GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Toxylon on February 02, 2023, 10:50:16 AM
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Having two guns with T01 triggers, I recently bolstered my replacement parts stash for these from Versandhaus Schneider. I ordered an inner and an outer sleeve for the trigger mech (or all T01 parts they had). The inner sleeve with the three balls was OK, but the outer sleeve was badly surface corroded - enough to make the sliding part feel really rough to the touch.
I immediately doused the rusty sleeve with Ballistol, and pushed the oil in by rubbing with 0000 steel wool. I then contacted Schneider, who promptly returned my money for the part. So, points for them.
Goes to show that replacement parts for even 25 year old guns can be getting scarce, at least if good condition is required.
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I find it amazing you could even FIND T01 parts. I'm sure you're aware you can install a newer trigger assembly if you get the appropriate piston to match.
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Cool!
Unfortunately, they will not ship to USA.... :-\
-Y
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Having two guns with T01 triggers, I recently bolstered my replacement parts stash for these from Versandhaus Schneider. I ordered an inner and an outer sleeve for the trigger mech (or all T01 parts they had). The inner sleeve with the three balls was OK, but the outer sleeve was badly surface corroded - enough to make the sliding part feel really rough to the touch.
I immediately doused the rusty sleeve with Ballistol, and pushed the oil in by rubbing with 0000 steel wool. I then contacted Schneider, who promptly returned my money for the part. So, points for them.
Goes to show that replacement parts for even 25 year old guns can be getting scarce, at least if good condition is required.
The way the T01 operates, there can be a LOT of play there and the trigger would still work and feel exactly the same to you.
I would make a mandrel with a screw and a nut, center the three ball thimble in the mandrel, get some diesel fuel, some 000 steel wool, and polish the rust off.
Ballistol is not a sufficiently "reducing" agent to remove rust.
Just something you can try if you have the time.
HM
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Thanks for the tip, Hector!
Yeah, the T01 sleeves aren't precision fitted, which is a good thing when it comes to rust, muck etc. Just ask Kalashnikov.
FWIW, the three ball dimple is rust-free. It's the outer sleeve that is rusty.
I have had good results on rusty airgun parts using Ballistol, 0000 steel wool and time. FWIW, it is the method used by antique dealers I follow, as well as Tom Gaylord.
If I get a pint of diesel fuel some time down the road, I'll compare the results.
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Guys at.a gun club I belong to use a Magic Elixir for cleaning most firearms. I made one batch 15 years ago and am still using it. It lubricates, removes dirt and carbon debris quite well. It is less aggressive towards wood and plastic than some of the others. I bought a badly abused and rusty Rem 870 Express one time and cleaned it up using the mixture and 0000 steel wool. Got it back to near original finish. It also cleans grease and oil off your hands and clothes.
The ratio is by volume. 40% Odorless Mineral Spirits, 40% Kerosene, 10% Marvel Mystery Oil, 10% Rislone. I simplified it by using a gallon of mineral spirits, a gallon of kerosene, and quart (about) bottles of Mystery Oil and Rislone.
I use it in a spray bottle for everything I need to clean or lubricate. I have an ultrasonic parts cleaner and fill the tank with the mixture. I use and re-use for years by filtering debris out of the liquid with a coffee filter. It gets black with very fine carbon from gunpowder but not a problem. Tools, gun parts, most anything. It would work quite well removing the oils and greases used on springs.
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I've used "rust bluing" on some air rifle parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmv58Z3RZ9c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmv58Z3RZ9c)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkcKGgHGRo8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkcKGgHGRo8)
Maybe one of these bluing methods could be used to resist future rust on this part?
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I've used "rust bluing" on some air rifle parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmv58Z3RZ9c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmv58Z3RZ9c)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkcKGgHGRo8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkcKGgHGRo8)
Maybe one of these bluing methods could be used to resist future rust on this part?
Good stuff! Thanks for posting. :D
Wish they all worked better. Far to easy to scratch or remove the bluing.
On most airguns, are the trigger parts the only ones that are heat treated?
-Y
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Hot water and citric acid work beautifully but the bluing/finish gets destroyed. You have to redo the finish
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Guys at.a gun club I belong to use a Magic Elixir for cleaning most firearms. I made one batch 15 years ago and am still using it. It lubricates, removes dirt and carbon debris quite well. It is less aggressive towards wood and plastic than some of the others. I bought a badly abused and rusty Rem 870 Express one time and cleaned it up using the mixture and 0000 steel wool. Got it back to near original finish. It also cleans grease and oil off your hands and clothes.
The ratio is by volume. 40% Odorless Mineral Spirits, 40% Kerosene, 10% Marvel Mystery Oil, 10% Rislone. I simplified it by using a gallon of mineral spirits, a gallon of kerosene, and quart (about) bottles of Mystery Oil and Rislone.
I use it in a spray bottle for everything I need to clean or lubricate. I have an ultrasonic parts cleaner and fill the tank with the mixture. I use and re-use for years by filtering debris out of the liquid with a coffee filter. It gets black with very fine carbon from gunpowder but not a problem. Tools, gun parts, most anything. It would work quite well removing the oils and greases used on springs.
Dave;
I've found the Marvel Mystery Oil, but Rislone has 4 different products, ¿which one?
Thanks!
HM
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Dave,
In my work-related comatose state, I tried googling for Magic Elixir gun products, with extremely thin results. Only then did I realize you were talking about home-mixed stuff.
I have no idea where to get kerosene, while Marvel Mystery Oil isn't available here at all and Rislone is only semi-theoretically, but this is one of those things that I appreciate learning about, and will store in my notes for possible future use.
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Mikey,
Thanks for the Rust Bluing info. I very rarely watch videos, on Youtube or elsewhere.
brewbear,
Hot water and citric acid is deffo easily available, and there's no bluing to get destroyed in this case. Thanks for the tip!
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Hector, your idea of Diesel fuel to soak parts in will also work well. You might see if you can find No.1 Diesel as it is lower in paraffins and a bit cleaner. It is sold in winter time in COLD country as Winter Diesel (my daughter used it her diesel car. ) Conventional automotive diesel is now much cleaner than it used to be. The sulfur compounds that make the diesel smelly and smoky have been reduced from about 900ppm to less than 15. That change is what made diesel cars much more successful, particularly in Europe.
Combining diesel with an ultrasonic cleaner big enough to hold a rifle action / barrel should work a treat on air rifles. As I mentioned I use an ultrasonic bath for gun parts of all kinds. I don't have one big enough for whole rifles though. I also use a air line to blow all the excess liquid off the parts when I get done.
History lesson for those old enough to know what Cosmoline is. Military used to soak rifle metal works in gasoline to remove it. A bit more dangerous that I would care to do but it worked well.
Magic Elixir: the idea is to have low viscosity solvents capable of dissolving most greases and lubricants along with detergents to help remove the particulates and 'gunk" that gets in things. There isn't really an magic involved just plain old chemistry at work.
Base solvents:
No 1. diesel without engine additives would probably work too. To freak you all out, No 1. Diesel is also sold as Jet A fuel used in most jet air craft. Very similar to kerosene,
The below are the materials available to the guys who figured it out 50 years ago. Purpose is low viscosity fairly benign solvent. Not too critical as long as it is low viscosity and fairly low volatility (safety for your body and to avoid fires)
Kerosene available from camping supply stores or some big box paint department used in oil stoves will work fine. Main purpose here is a solvent that is low in benzene related materials. In US Coleman sells gas stoves and lanterns that use a refined version of kerosene like material. Lower flammability and not too bad a benzene content.
Mineral Spirits is plain old paint thinner, Works in most any oil-based paints. DO NOT USE THE MORE AGGRESSIVE VM&P Naphtha, acetone, benzene, toluene xylene andany alcohol based stuff. Low odor and slow evaporation is desired.
Gunk Removers and Lubricants
Marvel Mystery Oil is a good basic lubricant for most metals. It clings well and gives a protective film that sticks on the metal very well. A possible problem in air guns is that it might hang around in the pistons and cause dieseling. Keep an eye out for that!
Rislone makes several products. Two are for removing carbon deposits, dried greases, and "gunk" They also contain penetrating oil. The ones you want are marked for engine treatment. "high mileage engine treatment, "high performance engine treatment".
Alternatives:
A couple guys swear by Mobil One motor oil - good synthetic engine oil straight. I tried a variant with a synthetic motor oil with poor success. It was too "clingy" and viscous even the 0-10wt stuff. Difficult to get off and left to much oil behind.
One guy who worked on jet engines tried the "turbine" lubricant. It is very low viscosity but I have no experience who that.
Some follow the above with a water-based cleaner called "Simply Green" - I think. I haven't used it.
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Regarding bluing:
I fantasized about setting up a bluing operation once. After investigating the stuff used, I decided with wasn't for me. Too toxic and too much unless you are going professional. By the way, I have a PhD in Physical Chemistry.
I tried most of the commercial cold-blue products for both steel and aluminum. Any will work. None are as good and the "real" thing but heck of a lot safer, cheaper, and doable. I use them for touch-up on worn surfaces and small scratches. Brownwell makes two versions. Liquid and cream. I now use them exclusively. Really easy to use. I blue screws by dropping them in the bottle and leaving them for a half hour. After washing and oiling you can't beat them. A bit of the liquid or the cream on a small towel rubbed in until the color matches works well too.
I use the Magic Elixir above to lubicate and protect all my guns and have NEVER had a rusting problem since.
I don't like the aluminum black but have used it when absolutely necessary.
Cheers!
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Dave,
In my work-related comatose state, I tried googling for Magic Elixir gun products, with extremely thin results. Only then did I realize you were talking about home-mixed stuff.
I have no idea where to get kerosene, while Marvel Mystery Oil isn't available here at all and Rislone is only semi-theoretically, but this is one of those things that I appreciate learning about, and will store in my notes for possible future use.
[/quote
Where are you? I think I remember Finland??
If so, try a paint store and an auto parts store. As said in my note about the chemistry - it isn't really Magic - its chemistry. Any decent lubricant with similar properties to Marvel Mystery Oil or Rislone Engine treatment and some benign solvent system as I describe will get you there.
You could use straight paint thinner as a solvent instead of the mix. Just get one that is primarily alkane solvents rather than the benzene family.
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Hector, your idea of Diesel fuel to soak parts in will also work well. You might see if you can find No.1 Diesel as it is lower in paraffins and a bit cleaner. It is sold in winter time in COLD country as Winter Diesel (my daughter used it her diesel car. ) Conventional automotive diesel is now much cleaner than it used to be. The sulfur compounds that make the diesel smelly and smoky have been reduced from about 900ppm to less than 15. That change is what made diesel cars much more successful, particularly in Europe.
Combining diesel with an ultrasonic cleaner big enough to hold a rifle action / barrel should work a treat on air rifles. As I mentioned I use an ultrasonic bath for gun parts of all kinds. I don't have one big enough for whole rifles though. I also use a air line to blow all the excess liquid off the parts when I get done.
History lesson for those old enough to know what Cosmoline is. Military used to soak rifle metal works in gasoline to remove it. A bit more dangerous that I would care to do but it worked well.
Magic Elixir: the idea is to have low viscosity solvents capable of dissolving most greases and lubricants along with detergents to help remove the particulates and 'gunk" that gets in things. There isn't really an magic involved just plain old chemistry at work.
Base solvents:
No 1. diesel without engine additives would probably work too. To freak you all out, No 1. Diesel is also sold as Jet A fuel used in most jet air craft. Very similar to kerosene,
The below are the materials available to the guys who figured it out 50 years ago. Purpose is low viscosity fairly benign solvent. Not too critical as long as it is low viscosity and fairly low volatility (safety for your body and to avoid fires)
Kerosene available from camping supply stores or some big box paint department used in oil stoves will work fine. Main purpose here is a solvent that is low in benzene related materials. In US Coleman sells gas stoves and lanterns that use a refined version of kerosene like material. Lower flammability and not too bad a benzene content.
Mineral Spirits is plain old paint thinner, Works in most any oil-based paints. DO NOT USE THE MORE AGGRESSIVE VM&P Naphtha, acetone, benzene, toluene xylene andany alcohol based stuff. Low odor and slow evaporation is desired.
Gunk Removers and Lubricants
Marvel Mystery Oil is a good basic lubricant for most metals. It clings well and gives a protective film that sticks on the metal very well. A possible problem in air guns is that it might hang around in the pistons and cause dieseling. Keep an eye out for that!
Rislone makes several products. Two are for removing carbon deposits, dried greases, and "gunk" They also contain penetrating oil. The ones you want are marked for engine treatment. "high mileage engine treatment, "high performance engine treatment".
Alternatives:
A couple guys swear by Mobil One motor oil - good synthetic engine oil straight. I tried a variant with a synthetic motor oil with poor success. It was too "clingy" and viscous even the 0-10wt stuff. Difficult to get off and left to much oil behind.
One guy who worked on jet engines tried the "turbine" lubricant. It is very low viscosity but I have no experience who that.
Some follow the above with a water-based cleaner called "Simply Green" - I think. I haven't used it.
Thanks, Dave!
HM