GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: RANGER94 on January 26, 2023, 12:32:37 PM
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Hello! I apologize if this has been covered in the past. I am toying with the idea of purchasing a 54 Airking Pro - I really like the look of that laminate stock. About how long can it be kept cocked? If I am hunting squirrels, I was curious if there were problems keeping it cocked for a while??
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Leaving it cocked for 30-60 minutes while you wait for a shot - probably not a problem.
Leaving it cocked from one Saturday hunting trip to the next - you might get away with it, but I wouldn't.
Leaving it cocked over the off-season - it will almost certainly permanently alter the spring.
Hope this helps!
BTW, if you can hump a 54 around in the woods you have my admiration. :D A 34/36 is more of the woods walker gun among Diana springers, so I hear.
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that was funny. Thanks!!!
I guess I am looking for keeping cocked in my spot for a couple of hours, I guess that maybe OK?
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Brendan pretty well nailed it but are you sure you want to take a gun that heavy afield? Are you sure you want the laminate stock? Do a bit of surfing. I don't know the percentage but there are reports of the laminate stocks breaking in the area of the grip.
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Will do!
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Yes, have seen several pictures/posts of broken laminated stocks over on airgunnation. I have an AV 46m with the red black laminated stock. A piece snapped off the palm rest when I was not looking and I happended to spot it on the ground. I epoxied it back in place with a small nail as a reinforcing dowel, then I discovered a split in the lamination where the palm rest attaches to the grips. I currently have a set of walnut grips on order from Rink. No more laminations for me. It looks like all the laminations are oriented in the same or similar direction and do not give the strength of what we know as plywood.
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Perhaps I should rethink this one!
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Brendan pretty well nailed it but are you sure you want to take a gun that heavy afield? Are you sure you want the laminate stock? Do a bit of surfing. I don't know the percentage but there are reports of the laminate stocks breaking in the area of the grip.
I owned a red lam 54 Air King Pro. Long enough to open it up and repackage to send it back because it arrived with a broken stock. If you want a sidelever with that much pop why not look for a Model 48? Still heavy but lighter than the 54. Either way you’ll get a workout lugging one around the woods.
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Very Disheartening!! I thought the Germans were the ones who developed laminated wood stocks (WW2) from the git go? I would think they would get this one right?
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I wouldn't be too discouraged about the D54 Pro in the laminated stock. No issues with mine so far, although it hasn't seen much field use but has been shot quite a bit. I have had it for a while now, I think going on two years give or take.
¿Not sure if anything has changed in the stocks production recently?
I also own one in beech, of a different calibre. Both very nice, can be a little on the heavy side (depending on optic choice or if bipod equipped) but the accuracy and power are impressive for a springer.
Also, leaving a springer cocked for a few hours (or to the end of days hunt) should be no problem for the spring. If anything happens over time, springs are cheap and Diana air rifles are very easy to work on.
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Thanks ER00z - can I ask what scope & rings you have on them?
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The 54 is reputedly a BEAST when it comes to recoil. A Diana ZR (zero recoil) mount is highly recommended. Rather than dump a bunch of money into scopes I've found I like the Sun TAC series scopes. They are a second focal plane (SFP) scope with etched reticle and a lifetime warranty. They're kind of heavy but I feel worth the money,
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Thanks ER00z - can I ask what scope & rings you have on them?
As Roadworthy said, it's recommended to use the Diana ZR mount, but I have been using the RWS one piece drooper mount (a.k.a. RWS Lock down mount) on both of my 54's. On the Laminated .177 is a Burris Fullfield IV 4-16X50 and for the .22cal an (inexpensive) Pinty 4-16x40AO with twist lock turrets (similar to a UTG design). Both optics have held up well, but the Burris is much more clear/better built overall.
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"Heavy" and "Light" are relative terms with no real significance.
I shoot FT with a 54 in a laminated stock. Modified to the necessities of the sport:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/922/MHKy8O.jpg)
I have logged more than 20,000 miles with that gun and have not had a problem with the stock.
Because we travel a lot for FT competitions, there is ALWAYS a gun stock that arrives broken, whether to Italy, or to England, or to New Orleans, or to Akkron-Canton. From AA's to Daystate's, to HW's, ALL of them can break at the wrist.
It is not a problem with the material (they are all laminated BIRCH), it is a problem with the design.
If you are worried about the "Pro" stock you CAN take pre-emptive measures, and that is as simple as drilling a 5/8" hole through the wrist and then inserting an oak dowel.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/NQxIJc.jpg)
On the mechanical side, yes the 54 needs really good scopes. It is a matter of vibrations, not recoil. Almost all medium to large size scopes will enter in resonance with the spring vibrations and loose zero, so you get two or three distinct groups. The solution is a ZR mount, and if you are into serious target shooting, then an Accurized ZR Mount.
No airgun is devoid of issues, but that is part of the charm and challenge of being a good spring piston shooter.
Good luck and keep us posted!
HM
It's something that has been done since the days of the spring-piston Olympic Match guns.
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Highly recommend Hector’s Accurized ZR mount if you get a side lever Diana. I have one on my 52 Luxus and it’s excellent. Worth spending a little extra and letting someone that really understands that mount tune it for you.
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Highly recommend Hector’s Accurized ZR mount if you get a side lever Diana. I have one on my 52 Luxus and it’s excellent. Worth spending a little extra and letting someone that really understands that mount tune it for you.
Chris, I couldn’t agree with you more. I have two of Hector’s accurized ZR mounts. They are well worth the money in my opinion.
Steve
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I have 2. 54s both with hectorized ZR ring/baes sets Thousands of shots, no scope or stock issues. Before the ZR was available I had an rws branded scope fail
Regarding the stock issues, there are available beech wood stocked versions. Roadworthy has one.
An alternative might be a pre pro version. My pair have most of the changes that differentiate the pro from the earlier version. Neither are cheap or light. But they are the best shooters short of a full target version that I have seen. I have data comparing with the fwb300 favorably.
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Great info!
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Won’t be often I find myself disagreeing with Hector on an Airgun forum, but I don’t believe the fact terms are relative necessarily negates their significance. Time is relative. I don’t think anyone, especially those at the age of many of us in this forum, would argue it’s insignificant. “Light” and “dark” are relative terms. But if I say, “Hey Steve, come down here and ride. Going to be 98 degrees (Fahrenheit, not Celsius) and 100% humidity, so wear light-colored clothing”. I believe that a large percentage would agree that is “hot” and “humid” (more relative terms), and Steve would understand, within a certain range, what clothing to wear. Point being, that relative terms can be useful for a given application and given some common ground between your sample population. And I think most of our sample population would agree that a 12 lb rig (assuming it’s scoped) would be considered “heavy” to lug around the woods all day squirrel hunting. Which was what the OP mentioned originally.
Told you that to tell you this. And to have a little fun with Hector ha ha ha. OP has now mentioned in another post the possibility of shooting groundhogs under his shed at 50+ yards. The 54 would be a wonderful choice for that application. Which leads to the obvious answer, get both a 54 AND a 34/36. Still haven’t had a chance to shoot a 54 unfortunately. But my peep sighted 34 is one of my favorite guns to shoot. Amazingly accurate and plenty of power inside 30 yards. And a heckuva lot “lighter” for woods toting than a Diana 54 ;D. Y’all have fun. I need to get to work!
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Thanks for the reply! I have a model 36 (it was my Dads) and also a FWB-124, in my opinion these are a lil to light to ethically kill a groundhog. I am sure some people can but most defiantly not me.
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Agreed. 54 is a good choice for groundhogs.
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Thanks for the reply! I have a model 36 (it was my Dads) and also a FWB-124, in my opinion these are a lil to light to ethically kill a groundhog. I am sure some people can but most defiantly not me.
I gave a HW 95 to a buddy who lives in the Shenandoah. He uses his HW 95 in .22 for groundhogs. In his case it is usually a 20-30yd> shot. No Problem! ;D
-Y
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Regarding killing groundhogs. I recommended a 54 in .22 to a friend a few years ago. He bought one and last I asked he had killed 27 woodchucks (confirmed kills) with it.
He is a very good shot and as a longtime hunter who usually gets what he is after. I don't know his preferred aiming point, I am assuming brain shots.
I conversed with another person on this site many years ago who killed a coyote with his - at short range.
50yds may be a bit much as the drop with a 22 gets substantial not much further out and may make really precise hits difficult. Of course, that depends on the zero etc.
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Chris.- I love to disagree, ROFL! you are right and you are wrong. If you told a guy from Mississippi and a guy from Arizona the same numbers for humidity, one would say: "Sweet" and the other one would say "Clammy"
Tell a guy in Wisconsin and a guy in Nevada some temperatures and the responses would be different.
Numbers don't lie, and it is better to communicate in numbers than in relative terms. . . And that is Hector's General Theory of Relativity. ;-)
Now, getting serious, woodchucks at 50 yards is a tall order. Even for a 0.22 LR RF it would be a tall order.
I would say that with the right training and knowing VERY well the wind patterns and the distances it is more than doable, but it will require not only a good gun, but the right projectile and LOTS of practice, patience and perseverance.
I believe that all living things deserve respect. So if we are going to take a life, we might as well do it in the most humane way. And humane here means less than 5 seconds and less than 5 yards from POI. In some situations, it may even be more restrictive.
For MANY reasons you do not want a chuck to die inside its den, so, . . . MAYBE some limited "baiting" would be in order. Tease it out of its den with the occasional morsel, and then you will have the 5 yards.
It also means finding TWO best pellets: One domed/solid and one expanding. Because you may need to choose the pellet to the task at hand. AND it means setting up an ambush/blind. Define the field of battle, lay your position and the groundwork, and execute. Bring the enemy to YOUR terms.
It ALSO means doing a lot of testing. On the domed, it needs to fly true and stable out to maybe 55 yards. You can test pellet stability using smoking / cigarrette paper at different distances and seeing if the holes are truly round or not. On the expanding, it needs some testing in wet newsprint. So that you know with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that the pellet you chose expands at the distances you are shooting.
By the time you are done with all the testing, you will have enough time behind the trigger to be comfortable with the gun/pellet/scope combination.
For many reasons I would choose either the DIANA 54, 460 or 48 in that order. All in 0.22" All three of them take well to a bi-pod (the 54 better than the others), and they all have ample power to do the job with a well placed shot.
JMHO
Some years ago I made a practice target in preparation for a hunt:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/uPGwP5.jpg)
Print it to your actual chuck size and it should be useful.
HTH and keep us posted!
HM
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Ha ha ha at Hector. I’ll have to save rebuttal for a later date as I need to go make lunch. But, as you can see in your example above, while numbers don’t lie the way they’re interpreted certainly can be a source of contention! Have made pretty decent career convincing people my numbers are correct LOL. I had the same thoughts you did about the distance for a groundhog. If that’s truly the distance I’d probably be looking at another power source. But I like your idea about baiting and getting closer. I’ll probably have to watch Caddyshack tonight for some pointers!
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A bit of a snark on the laminated stocks.
Looking at the butt of Hector's rifle, it seems to me that the laminations are pretty thin. Also, what are the strips made of? Looking at them, I get the impression of wood chips imbedded in resin. That kind of stuff does OK in compression but not so well when flexed side to side or in tension. There are no fibers long enough to give lineal strength. Reinforced as Hector had done seems a good way to stabilize them. His experience supports that view.
I have TWO wood-wood laminated stocks made in the early 1950s or earlier. One is walnut-walnut with each strip reversed to counter warping because of moisture. The second is blond maple - black walnut strips that give the sort of view the red-black of Hector's rifle. Each laminate strip is about 3/8" thick. The first is on a customized Winhester 52C that I bought used 54 years ago. I believe the stock was designed and sold by Al Freeland an old-time small bore shooter/gunsmith who designed and built LOTS of shooting stuff in that timeframe. The second is a "heavy hunting" rifle stock in .25/06 built in 1951. It started life as a M1903A3 from WWII. I don't know where the stock came from but suspect it was one of the more reputable stock makers of the period. Reinhart-Fajen or Bishop? The rifles have been stable since then. Lots of competitive shooting in one case and 1/2" groups at 100yds (less than an inch at 200yd) prove the case.
If I ran the asylum, and wanted to make strong, light, and NON-wood stocks, I would use carbon fiber woven mesh as the base for strength and stability with an aluminum or steel inner frame to attach the action too. Lots of carbon fiber stocks are appearing for many rifle types but ARE EXPENSIVE. Most that I have seen have the carbon fiber mixed into resin that is then fused in a mold. If the fibers are long enough they will work but short fibers may not be so good. Hence the need for the skeleton under the fiber.
If I worked at Diana and wanted to make such stocks, I would use either carbon-fiber or fiberglas mesh layers oriented 45degrees off the lineal direction impregnated with their resin to make the layers and then laminate the alternate layers for the design that they want. The orientation would give strength and stiffness. An aluminum cradle to attach to the action would be a good idea too. Al Freeland used an alumium channel from the pistol grip area forward to attach the action and provide a place to attach assessories. Perhaps a Picatinny rail would be the modern equivalent??
Back to the wood versus composites - wood has done a pretty good job for rifles for about 5 centuries. If available, I would always gravitate to a well-done wood stock.