GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Kragman1 on January 22, 2023, 11:06:15 PM
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What would you say the four "Mount Rushmore" German air rifles would/should be?
Is the sense of their influence on the sport and its development.
I'm thinking the Diana 34 for starters, because it seems to be the gateway gun to good German springers. Possibly the HW 77 or 97, because of its FT prominence. Then.....?
This post is just a fun way to gab about some good German airguns so no name calling, eye gouging or nose pulling. 😁
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I'll add the Diana 48 or 52 (same gun) as a great value highly accurate fixed barrel rifle for a reasonable price.
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D34 for sure, D48/52 certainly, HW77 absolutely (97 is too young and too derivative to qualify), and the fourth qualifierer I suppose would have to be HW35.
The Mount RushAir needs to have guns that took the airgunning world by storm, being groundbreaking, far-reaching and long-lived.
Yeah, you could say the D34 didn't break much ground, but it's status as the first (and in many cases only) high-power (for the time) quality springer for millions of people, with field capabilities as good as any, and a 35+ year production run make it a phenomenon.
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Diana 34 - Gateway drug for many and high power for the time.
HW35 - One of the OG “modern designs”
HW77 - absolutely nailed its purpose and spawned the 97
HW30 - it is THE air rifle everybody owns or should own and has been for a very long time.
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I agree, based on the popularity, at least on this forum, the HW30 belongs.
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When you think of Legendary Springers ..... What gun started it all ... in the US?
Beeman R1 - end of story ;).
It's Washington crossing the Potomac.
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Springers...here is the list (quality)
Theoben
Webley
Beeman
Hw
AA
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Yeah, the HW30/Beeman R7 must be included, given how it has influenced so many shooters to not only start air gun shooting, but to stay with air gun shooting as well. Moreover, that's air gun shooting in general, as well as springer air gun shooting. It was right there from the start in the Beeman catalog as the R7. The HW30 is also one of the most universal air guns ever made, being shot by shooters of all ages and sizes.
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I would have to mention the HW95 which was my first/only German after a Benjamin Trail NP. No comparison between these two IMO.
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Yeah, the HW30/Beeman R7 must be included, given how it has influenced so many shooters to not only start air gun shooting, but to stay with air gun shooting as well. Moreover, that's air gun shooting in general, as well as springer air gun shooting. It was right there from the start in the Beeman catalog as the R7. The HW30 is also one of the most universal air guns ever made, being shot by shooters of all ages and sizes.
Yeah, probably the most user friendly, accurate and quality Springer out to 30 yards ;).
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Well since Mount Rushmore is a bunch of old dead people, none of the currently made springer should be on the list.
How about FWB 124, Walther LGV, FWB 300, Diana 27S, Theoben Sirocco?
No currently made springer should be on the list. Is anybody going to put Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump on a mountain side? I think not... >:(
-Y
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Well since Mount Rushmore is a bunch of old dead people, none of the currently made springer should be on the list.
How about FWB 124, Walther LGV, FWB 300, Diana 27S, Theoben Sirocco?
No currently made springer should be on the list. Is anybody going to put Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump on a mountain side? I think not... >:(
-Y
:-X
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34, LGV, LGU, 97 and the TX200 as non German one LOL
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What would you say the four "Mount Rushmore" German air rifles would/should be?
Is the sense of their influence on the sport and its development.
I'm thinking the Diana 34 for starters, because it seems to be the gateway gun to good German springers. Possibly the HW 77 or 97, because of its FT prominence. Then.....?
This post is just a fun way to gab about some good German airguns so no name calling, eye gouging or nose pulling. 😁
Brian,
What you should of asked is what 5-6 airguns should every serious airgunner have to cover all the bases? :P
-Y
HW 30, 50,95 or 80, Diana 48, AA ProSport would be my vote. ;)
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My Airgun Rushmore would have a French Giffard, a Quackenbush Gem, a German Milita (No, I did NOT say Millitia), and a British Lincoln Jeffries.
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Fun question!
My vote would be the HW30, FWB124, and Diana Models 34 and 48. Obviously bias prevails, but these are the guns that, at least to me, have and continue to have an impact on the world of German springers.
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FWB 124, FWB 300s, HW77, HW 35e. AA TX200
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Diana 75 or any of the GISS guns ...
Until such time as you handle & shoot a recoil-less GISS rifle and hear the racket tho feel nothing ... dream of it, as it is sublime 8)
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Diana 75 or any of the GISS guns ...
Until such time as you handle & shoot a recoil-less GISS rifle and hear the racket tho feel nothing ... dream of it, as it is sublime 8)
Agreed. Incredible technology.
But having resealed a 6G, I'll be the first to admit that being in awe and terrified is a fine line when getting into the guts of one of those marvels.
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Diana 75 or any of the GISS guns ...
Until such time as you handle & shoot a recoil-less GISS rifle and hear the racket tho feel nothing ... dream of it, as it is sublime 8)
Absolutely! +1
-Y
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As a history buff, I would have to disagree with most choices, I would go by the correspondence of the significance of each character.
So, without further ado, these would be my corresponding choices:
G. Washington.- DIANA #1 (while the Lincoln Jeffries does precede the DIANA, the DIANA is German (as requested by the OP) AND it was produced in larger numbers that made airgunning available to the general "Public". In the same way that without Washington there is no America, without the DIANA 1 there would be no "generalized airgunning".
T. Jefferson.- Aiding Madison in the Bill of Rights, and then drafting the Constitution, basically made the concept of Republicanism "gel/solidify".
In this same way, the DIANA 24 (or 25, 26, 28, choose whichever is your favourite) set in stone the mainframe of the architecture of all the subsequent breakbarrels, from the DIANA 34 to the HW95, or the Walther's LG series. The different "detentes", reciprocating pistons, barrel block locks, etc etc etc, are all "accessories" to a general architecture.
A. Lincoln.- While even he did not realize it, his greatest achievement was the Emancipation. In this sense, the DIANA 54 is what set us free from having to perform the "artillery hold". The GISS system also did away with recoil, BUT the truth is that for any given power level, the 54 action is more efficient than the Giss, and that is the real reason why it has never come back. Some may argue that the FWB300 or even the 250 are more worthy candidates, but given that they were "dead ends" I would still keep my vote for the DIANA 54
T. Roosevelt.- The only angle I can think of putting Teddy in the Rushmore monument is because of its location and the great role that T. R. played in the establishment of the National Parks System (The Badlands included), as well as all the protection afforded through the Excise Tax system to the Natural Resources. So, in the sense of "getting wild", I would propose the DIANA 460, which is the one true magnum that is still shootable at 24-25 ft-lbs. T.R. was a firm believer in using "enough gun", even if it kicked hard (if you have ever tried the Winchester 0.405" you know what I am talking about) and so, to me that is the connection.
Biased? For sure! Even writers have the right to their own opinions, ROFL!
Asbestos suit on . . . let the flames begin!
:-P
HM
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As a history buff, I would have to disagree with most choices, I would go by the correspondence of the significance of each character.
So, without further ado, these would be my corresponding choices:
G. Washington.- DIANA #1 (while the Lincoln Jeffries does precede the DIANA, the DIANA is German (as requested by the OP) AND it was produced in larger numbers that made airgunning available to the general "Public". In the same way that without Washington there is no America, without the DIANA 1 there would be no "generalized airgunning".
T. Jefferson.- Aiding Madison in the Bill of Rights, and then drafting the Constitution, basically made the concept of Republicanism "gel/solidify".
In this same way, the DIANA 24 (or 25, 26, 28, choose whichever is your favourite) set in stone the mainframe of the architecture of all the subsequent breakbarrels, from the DIANA 34 to the HW95, or the Walther's LG series. The different "detentes", reciprocating pistons, barrel block locks, etc etc etc, are all "accessories" to a general architecture.
A. Lincoln.- While even he did not realize it, his greatest achievement was the Emancipation. In this sense, the DIANA 54 is what set us free from having to perform the "artillery hold". The GISS system also did away with recoil, BUT the truth is that for any given power level, the 54 action is more efficient than the Giss, and that is the real reason why it has never come back. Some may argue that the FWB300 or even the 250 are more worthy candidates, but given that they were "dead ends" I would still keep my vote for the DIANA 54
T. Roosevelt.- The only angle I can think of putting Teddy in the Rushmore monument is because of its location and the great role that T. R. played in the establishment of the National Parks System (The Badlands included), as well as all the protection afforded through the Excise Tax system to the Natural Resources. So, in the sense of "getting wild", I would propose the DIANA 460, which is the one true magnum that is still shootable at 24-25 ft-lbs. T.R. was a firm believer in using "enough gun", even if it kicked hard (if you have ever tried the Winchester 0.405" you know what I am talking about) and so, to me that is the connection.
Biased? For sure! Even writers have the right to their own opinions, ROFL!
Asbestos suit on . . . let the flames begin!
:-P
HM
Hector,
No GISS guns? Shame on you!
They are the high point of smooth, recoilless springer airguns. Maybe the Diana 75 is more Ben Franklin than Tom Jefferson? So put the D 75 on the $50 bill! ;D
-Y
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Good answer Hector!
Bravo, sir. 😁
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As a history buff, I would have to disagree with most choices, I would go by the correspondence of the significance of each character.
So, without further ado, these would be my corresponding choices:
G. Washington.- DIANA #1 (while the Lincoln Jeffries does precede the DIANA, the DIANA is German (as requested by the OP) AND it was produced in larger numbers that made airgunning available to the general "Public". In the same way that without Washington there is no America, without the DIANA 1 there would be no "generalized airgunning".
T. Jefferson.- Aiding Madison in the Bill of Rights, and then drafting the Constitution, basically made the concept of Republicanism "gel/solidify".
In this same way, the DIANA 24 (or 25, 26, 28, choose whichever is your favourite) set in stone the mainframe of the architecture of all the subsequent breakbarrels, from the DIANA 34 to the HW95, or the Walther's LG series. The different "detentes", reciprocating pistons, barrel block locks, etc etc etc, are all "accessories" to a general architecture.
A. Lincoln.- While even he did not realize it, his greatest achievement was the Emancipation. In this sense, the DIANA 54 is what set us free from having to perform the "artillery hold". The GISS system also did away with recoil, BUT the truth is that for any given power level, the 54 action is more efficient than the Giss, and that is the real reason why it has never come back. Some may argue that the FWB300 or even the 250 are more worthy candidates, but given that they were "dead ends" I would still keep my vote for the DIANA 54
T. Roosevelt.- The only angle I can think of putting Teddy in the Rushmore monument is because of its location and the great role that T. R. played in the establishment of the National Parks System (The Badlands included), as well as all the protection afforded through the Excise Tax system to the Natural Resources. So, in the sense of "getting wild", I would propose the DIANA 460, which is the one true magnum that is still shootable at 24-25 ft-lbs. T.R. was a firm believer in using "enough gun", even if it kicked hard (if you have ever tried the Winchester 0.405" you know what I am talking about) and so, to me that is the connection.
Biased? For sure! Even writers have the right to their own opinions, ROFL!
Asbestos suit on . . . let the flames begin!
:-P
Having a couple of Winchester M 95 rifles in .405 Win. I do not find the recoil that bad. I have a couple of more lightweight Marlin 1895's including one of the ultralight Guide guns in 45-70 that make the .405 look mild. My .405's with a shotgun style buttplate are much more friendly than a much heavier 1886 Winchester takedown in 45-70 with a crescent buttplate, that thing plain hurts.
HM
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As a history buff, I would have to disagree with most choices, I would go by the correspondence of the significance of each character.
So, without further ado, these would be my corresponding choices:
G. Washington.- DIANA #1 (while the Lincoln Jeffries does precede the DIANA, the DIANA is German (as requested by the OP) AND it was produced in larger numbers that made airgunning available to the general "Public". In the same way that without Washington there is no America, without the DIANA 1 there would be no "generalized airgunning".
T. Jefferson.- Aiding Madison in the Bill of Rights, and then drafting the Constitution, basically made the concept of Republicanism "gel/solidify".
In this same way, the DIANA 24 (or 25, 26, 28, choose whichever is your favourite) set in stone the mainframe of the architecture of all the subsequent breakbarrels, from the DIANA 34 to the HW95, or the Walther's LG series. The different "detentes", reciprocating pistons, barrel block locks, etc etc etc, are all "accessories" to a general architecture.
A. Lincoln.- While even he did not realize it, his greatest achievement was the Emancipation. In this sense, the DIANA 54 is what set us free from having to perform the "artillery hold". The GISS system also did away with recoil, BUT the truth is that for any given power level, the 54 action is more efficient than the Giss, and that is the real reason why it has never come back. Some may argue that the FWB300 or even the 250 are more worthy candidates, but given that they were "dead ends" I would still keep my vote for the DIANA 54
T. Roosevelt.- The only angle I can think of putting Teddy in the Rushmore monument is because of its location and the great role that T. R. played in the establishment of the National Parks System (The Badlands included), as well as all the protection afforded through the Excise Tax system to the Natural Resources. So, in the sense of "getting wild", I would propose the DIANA 460, which is the one true magnum that is still shootable at 24-25 ft-lbs. T.R. was a firm believer in using "enough gun", even if it kicked hard (if you have ever tried the Winchester 0.405" you know what I am talking about) and so, to me that is the connection.
Biased? For sure! Even writers have the right to their own opinions, ROFL!
Asbestos suit on . . . let the flames begin!
:-P
HM
Hector,
Much like Teddy Roosevelt, I appreciate your Bravado ;)!
You could have been one of the Rough Riders 8).
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Thanks, my friends!
Keep well and shoot straight!
HM
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I defer to and quote from my 1971 ARH catalog. My four nominees are:
Wischo 55N - POWER! described as possessing exceptional power (728 fps), extremely rugged construction, reliable, surprisingly smooth, manly, compact. It was a forerunner to the spring gun magnum mania craze.
HW 35 - described as a luxury long range sporting arm that stands aloft above all others, famous for workmanship, extreme durability and extreme accuracy for a sporter.
HW 55 - described as being famous for accuracy approaching the ultimate for an air arm at a reasonable price and beyond the average shooter's ability. Metal workmanship and finish is equivalent to or better than any air rifle made at any price, the trigger is satin smooth and the sighting system unsurpassed. It is a precision instrument designed for hair splitting accuracy.
FWB 300 - The name is associated with the ultimate in design, workmanship and materials in the world of advanced arms. It is built to a standard, not a price. It's internal construction is the most advanced in the world and its trigger should suit the whims of the most discriminating sportsman. Parts are almost totally wear free.
I own and am smitten with the last three (a 300S though, not a 300). I have never handled a 55-N but dreamed of owning one in my youth. It was THE magnum air gun of the day but by today's standards I would probably be disappointed with it in all respects.
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Thanks everyone!
Hoping the input continues!
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I think the Mount Rushmorers need to qualify on multiple levels. Something like a HW95, while very popular and succesful, is just too young and derivative to make it. The true influencers and shapers came before it. Almost any other Weihrauch has a better claim for the title.
Something like the D54 is singular in application, and has been in production for over 30 years, but it has never been hugely popular, being very expensive, very heavy and very different. It was Anschütz that created the sliding chamber / sidelever cocking / reduced-recoil spring air gun. And Diana's own 48 / 52 was 90 % of the basis for the 54, and they were / are much more influential and widespread.
The FWB 124 / 127 is a classic alright, and still desireable, which is a feat, but it went out of production almost 40 years ago - it's close to a footnote now.
As for a Wischo 55 - it is often mentioned as one of the first "magnum" springers, and that's noteworthy, but again, not enough for the Big Four. I have a BSF (Wischo) 54 - it's hard to find any admirable qualities to it (the reason the company went bust), and if the Rushmorers aren't admirable, what are they?
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Duke,
Mostly I'm learning through this thread, but my first thought when reading your post was that I wouldn't hold the age or derivation against the HW95.
It seems to me that the rifle is the product of positive evolution, and the the 95 is the one that "got it right". Hence it's popularity/success.
To me they combine the right size/power level for just about any use, with high quality and modest price.
Getting close to 30 years of production now too.
Maybe we should call it a modern classic?
Just my perspective.
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I defer to and quote from my 1971 ARH catalog. My four nominees are:
Wischo 55N - POWER! described as possessing exceptional power (728 fps), extremely rugged construction, reliable, surprisingly smooth, manly, compact. It was a forerunner to the spring gun magnum mania craze.
HW 35 - described as a luxury long range sporting arm that stands aloft above all others, famous for workmanship, extreme durability and extreme accuracy for a sporter.
HW 55 - described as being famous for accuracy approaching the ultimate for an air arm at a reasonable price and beyond the average shooter's ability. Metal workmanship and finish is equivalent to or better than any air rifle made at any price, the trigger is satin smooth and the sighting system unsurpassed. It is a precision instrument designed for hair splitting accuracy.
FWB 300 - The name is associated with the ultimate in design, workmanship and materials in the world of advanced arms. It is built to a standard, not a price. It's internal construction is the most advanced in the world and its trigger should suit the whims of the most discriminating sportsman. Parts are almost totally wear free.
I own and am smitten with the last three (a 300S though, not a 300). I have never handled a 55-N but dreamed of owning one in my youth. It was THE magnum air gun of the day but by today's standards I would probably be disappointed with it in all respects.
No experience with the Wischo or HW55. I have a FWB 300, 40 years old and never been touched internally and still going strong. I have a new HW 35e, and workmanship is top notch on it, and still my favorite is a FWB 124d that is roughly 48 years old, been rebuilt twice due to bad piston seals, and am hoping the last is of a better, long lasting material. All the aformentioned rifles have diopter sights, and of course the 300 is by far the most accurate within the range it was designed for, The 35 has an Anschutz diopter and the 124 has a willliams, and I honestly cannot telll any difference in accuracy.