Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
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Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
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Topic: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it (Read 10509 times))
Pelletjunkie
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Posts: 1121
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Real Name: Frank
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #20 on:
December 03, 2018, 06:26:14 PM »
Thats all because the hammer spring is too heavy. Hard to compress it when you cock it. Too much pressure on the sear on your trigger. I think the gun has hope. But like I said on another forum, its not an entry level pcp like the price tag implies. Its a chinagun. Cool concept, but only running on 7 cylinders. Like most chinaguns, with some tweaking and some swearing, can turn out to be a decent gun. Your call. If you are ever going to learn what makes a pcp tick and how to tune, that cheap little gun is a simple platform to learn on. I was going to buy one when I saw them at the shot show. Then I saw the price. I still would like to try to dial one in but its a $100 gun. When I can get one for that, I will attempt to cure it. Then I can just tell guys what they need and where to get it.
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United States, Pa, Mineral Point
Pelletjunkie
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Posts: 1121
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Real Name: Frank
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #21 on:
December 03, 2018, 06:36:45 PM »
If you send it back put the money towards a P-rod or Crosman Silhouette. Lots of info out there on those two and parts are only a click or phone call away.
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United States, Pa, Mineral Point
GD Giles
Cheap Shot
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Posts: 1658
Real Name: Glen
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #22 on:
December 03, 2018, 06:46:02 PM »
If I had the budget I'd get a Hatsan AP-1 or 2 but they're 3 times the money and 3 times the weight. I'm willing to work with this platform. Trying to decide if I exchange this one or just work with the one I have in hand.
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Columbus, GA
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GD Giles
Cheap Shot
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Posts: 1658
Real Name: Glen
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #23 on:
December 03, 2018, 09:45:11 PM »
I got the pdf!
Of course, to me, this is like Egyptian hieroglyphics.
It says the file is too big to attach here. I wish I could share it somehow.
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Columbus, GA
Hatsan Mod 95 Vortex .22 w/UTG 4-16x40AO
Hatsan Gladius .25 Long w/UTG 3-12x44 AO/IR/SWAT
Umarex Strike Point .22
He played like he was in jail, behind a few bars and couldn't find the key.
Pelletjunkie
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Posts: 1121
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Real Name: Frank
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #24 on:
December 03, 2018, 09:45:28 PM »
From what I have seen on this and other forums, yours is no different than anybody elses. If you do decide to keep it, I would make certain that it has a good barrel. Would be a shame to get the fps issue resolved only to find out its a shotgun. Hopefully Diana is holding SPA to a higher standard. My SPA guns look like someone crowned the barrels with an old worn out drill bit. Looking at your string video, I would fill it to 180bar, shoot 5 shots for a group then refill to 180 and test another pellet for 5 shots. Your gun has a 28fps spread from 180b down to 165b. If you are shooting under 20yrds, that shouldnt be a big deal. My CP1 .22 wears the same SPA barrel that yours has. My gun likes Walmart Crosmans and JSB 15.8s.
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United States, Pa, Mineral Point
GD Giles
Cheap Shot
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Posts: 1658
Real Name: Glen
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #25 on:
December 03, 2018, 09:59:09 PM »
I'll try that asap, which might not be until Sunday. I put the stock rear sight back on the gun to send it back if that's what I decided to do. I was getting horrible shot groups with it yesterday, at 7 yards. And I can't figure out why those Extreme Hunters are so hard to load and I was using the shot tray. The bolt is now coated with some kind of gummy substance. It needs to be disassembled, cleaned and lubricated properly.
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Columbus, GA
Hatsan Mod 95 Vortex .22 w/UTG 4-16x40AO
Hatsan Gladius .25 Long w/UTG 3-12x44 AO/IR/SWAT
Umarex Strike Point .22
He played like he was in jail, behind a few bars and couldn't find the key.
GD Giles
Cheap Shot
Expert
Posts: 1658
Real Name: Glen
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #26 on:
December 03, 2018, 10:05:04 PM »
let's see if this link works...
https://www.docdroid.net/6OaDDxG/diana-bandit-pdf.pdf
yes, success!! Hope that helps somebody someday, especially if they can read Chinese.
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Columbus, GA
Hatsan Mod 95 Vortex .22 w/UTG 4-16x40AO
Hatsan Gladius .25 Long w/UTG 3-12x44 AO/IR/SWAT
Umarex Strike Point .22
He played like he was in jail, behind a few bars and couldn't find the key.
Rallyshark
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4084
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Real Name: Donny
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #27 on:
December 03, 2018, 10:40:50 PM »
Glen, the first thing I would do is put a weaker spring in there as Frank has suggested. It is probably wasting air, and the stiffer spring isn't going to help you at all when cocking the gun. The thing that concerns me about it is that you can't get good shot groups at 7 yards. Even 100fps ES won't make a lot of difference at that range. Just from the strings and pressures, I can tell you the gun wants to shoot at somewhere between 550-600fps range. Likely closer to 550fps. I suppose there's no harm in returning it for another though, especially if you can't get it to group at even 7 yards. I don't know that gun specifically, but I'd definitely say there are more shots on the table with a spring change though
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Dacula, GA
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Hoople
Plinker
Posts: 101
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Real Name: Charles
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #28 on:
December 03, 2018, 11:16:45 PM »
Glen, lol. I got PDFs from SPA for the P-15 and the M16 both in English.
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Wise, Virginia
WyoMan
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 839
Real Name: Gary
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #29 on:
December 03, 2018, 11:32:59 PM »
I know very little about the gun, but if I had shot strings like that, I would look at trying a port strangle.
In theory, it would clip the top off of the sweet spot (the highest of the high), save some air, and give you a longer, flatter shot string.
Haven't plotted the string but it would appear to be a bell curve, so the conventional wisdom (as far as I know) is that you're not overpowering the valve.
I hope this gun will prove to be a great shooter...
Wyo
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Wyoming
GD Giles
Cheap Shot
Expert
Posts: 1658
Real Name: Glen
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #30 on:
December 04, 2018, 12:23:13 AM »
I think if the gun potentially has barrel issues it's best to return it so that's what I'm going to do. I'm just going to exchange it so we'll see how the next/new one does. In everything I could find on line w/examples of shot groups I never saw a photo or video that was as bad as the ones I had.
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Columbus, GA
Hatsan Mod 95 Vortex .22 w/UTG 4-16x40AO
Hatsan Gladius .25 Long w/UTG 3-12x44 AO/IR/SWAT
Umarex Strike Point .22
He played like he was in jail, behind a few bars and couldn't find the key.
nervoustrigger
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 8700
The Grin Reaper
Real Name: Jason
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #31 on:
December 04, 2018, 05:08:04 AM »
x2 on what Pelletjunkie said regarding the crowns. All 3 of my SPA guns had bad crowns and one of those had damaged rifling at the muzzle that had to be cut off. In every case they shot substantially better once that was addressed, most apparent as you might imagine on the one that had damaged rifling.
It's almost like they hired Crosman to show them how to do a crown right.
CP1-M (TargetMaster) before and after:
CR600W (Plinkster) before and after:
«
Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 05:10:12 AM by nervoustrigger
»
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MS
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GD Giles
Cheap Shot
Expert
Posts: 1658
Real Name: Glen
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #32 on:
December 04, 2018, 08:05:57 AM »
I've got mine boxed up for a return but I'll pull it back out and check the crown.
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Columbus, GA
Hatsan Mod 95 Vortex .22 w/UTG 4-16x40AO
Hatsan Gladius .25 Long w/UTG 3-12x44 AO/IR/SWAT
Umarex Strike Point .22
He played like he was in jail, behind a few bars and couldn't find the key.
dan_house
Expert
Posts: 1335
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #33 on:
December 04, 2018, 01:13:20 PM »
find a way to print that on 11 x 17 paper
the bigger size will make it easier to read, and translate what all that means
keep us posted
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Bozeman MT USofA
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Ribbonstone
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Posts: 12030
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #34 on:
December 04, 2018, 05:48:20 PM »
Pistol or rifle, unregulated PCP's pretty much adjusts the same way.
It's a balance. Have the air pressure force holding the valve closed vs. the hitting force of the striker opening the valve up.
Can pretty well tell where they are from the shot count/graphs..and at least for a simple tune, can just deal with the striker spring.
#1. Could be that the hammer spring is a bit weak...if so, your shots will start off slow and gradually increase in spead until they kind of level off, then start falling in speed. If you keep track of the pressure along the way, can see that it'sactually running its best at a lower pressure (so why bother filling it to max. if it will just shoot slow?)
#2. Could be that the hammer spring is cranked up high...if so, you'll start off shooting fast and just decline in speed from there. It will be fast,but for a very few shots before becoming too slow....so why keep shooting past the acceptiable decline in speed?)
#3. Ideal would be for the shots to start just a little slower than whatever they reach at their peak,which would make for the longest run of "good"shots. In this case,may start 18-25fps slower than it peask out at, then keep shooting to where if falls off the same 18-25fps, and refill.
Your pistol is running with too heavy a spring (the opening force is too much greater than the closing force). There is no external way to adjust the striker spring, so pretty well have to take it apart and do it the old-school way (cut-n-try).
Once that spring is "right", are going to be running as well as the issue pistol can run as it was made....if that'snot what you want,will have to look at the air flow from the valve to the pellet to change things (either way...slower/more shots or faster/fewer shots).
Given it'sa 50ccair volume,there just are not going to be a whole lot of fast/powerful shots per fill.
Guess the most experimented with unregulated PCP pistolwith about the same air volume would be the Crosman 1701. Totally different parts,but still the same basic kind of balance of valve opening and closeing forces. With the 1701,the air pathway is restricted (smalltransfer port)and it gets a pretty larger number of match-pistol speed shots...so most of what you'll find posted is more about powering them upby cleaning up the air path.
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Louisiana
GD Giles
Cheap Shot
Expert
Posts: 1658
Real Name: Glen
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #35 on:
December 04, 2018, 10:51:55 PM »
I looked at the crown and it's fairly poor. I've already gotten a return label so that was quick. It's out the door tomorrow.
In all honesty, the OP was the one that was curious about tuning his Bandit. I've adjusted a hammer spring on a couple of Hatsans but that's it. My main purpose in getting this thread going again was info on the chrony data, but I guess I've discovered the gun, even the new one coming to me in a week or so, will need some TLC to be a decent shooter. I only want it for about 7 yards or so and mostly to dispatch a squirrel if the 25 cal Gladius still leaves it hanging on for some reason by the time I walk up to it. Which has yet to happen but I also might use it for some HOSP duty. So, if I could get 2 mags, 14 shots, per fill in the 15 FPE range, I'll be ok with that. I'll report back with the new gun to compare before anything happens to it.
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Columbus, GA
Hatsan Mod 95 Vortex .22 w/UTG 4-16x40AO
Hatsan Gladius .25 Long w/UTG 3-12x44 AO/IR/SWAT
Umarex Strike Point .22
He played like he was in jail, behind a few bars and couldn't find the key.
GD Giles
Cheap Shot
Expert
Posts: 1658
Real Name: Glen
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #36 on:
December 11, 2018, 11:42:02 PM »
I got the replacement gun today and was able to spend a little bit of time with it tonight. In short, it groups much better but I know there's room for improvement. The chrony will be next. This one is MUCH easier to cock but those Hunter Extremes are still a very tough fit.
If I could get one mag, 7 rounds, to group well, is be happy. Right now I think the spread is too big to do that. I hope to have chrony data tomorrow night.
Here's some of tonight's efforts
«
Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 12:22:28 AM by GD Giles
»
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Columbus, GA
Hatsan Mod 95 Vortex .22 w/UTG 4-16x40AO
Hatsan Gladius .25 Long w/UTG 3-12x44 AO/IR/SWAT
Umarex Strike Point .22
He played like he was in jail, behind a few bars and couldn't find the key.
GD Giles
Cheap Shot
Expert
Posts: 1658
Real Name: Glen
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #37 on:
December 12, 2018, 12:30:42 AM »
And some further discoveries.
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Columbus, GA
Hatsan Mod 95 Vortex .22 w/UTG 4-16x40AO
Hatsan Gladius .25 Long w/UTG 3-12x44 AO/IR/SWAT
Umarex Strike Point .22
He played like he was in jail, behind a few bars and couldn't find the key.
Pelletjunkie
Expert
Posts: 1121
yes
Real Name: Frank
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #38 on:
December 12, 2018, 04:26:17 PM »
Pretty smart you posting videos. It saves you from typing six paragraphs. At 7 yards with a dot sight, you should be able to cover all your shots with a quarter. No fliers unless you know you pulled the shot. Play with a couple different pellets and see if one shines. Like I said before my co2 pistol like yours likes Walmart Crosman hollowpoints.
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United States, Pa, Mineral Point
GD Giles
Cheap Shot
Expert
Posts: 1658
Real Name: Glen
Re: Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it
«
Reply #39 on:
December 17, 2018, 06:46:15 PM »
I will give the Crosmans a try out of necessity; I've pretty much shot through my JSB supply!
Super frustrating afternoon. I have to pull out and set up all the chrony stuff to use it and then put it back when done, such is life when the dinning room table is your hobby area.
So today I kept getting multiple errors in EVERY string I tried to shoot. I'm about out of air and pellets and certainly patience. So, here's some numbers if you have any insight:
200 bar down to 110 bar
Lo 483.8
Hi 662.1
1 602.3
2 610.1
3 619.1
ERROR
ERROR
4 662.1
5 621.1
6 600.4
7 578.1
8 569.9
9 554.5
10 555
11 544.7
12 544.9
13 532.5
14 526.7
15 523.1
16 514.7
ERROR
ERROR
17 505.1
18 496.5
19 492.2
20 483.8
Another partial string:
1 - 558.1
2 - 581.6
3 - 580.2
4 - 587.8
5 - 597.8
6 - 623
7 - 642.7
ERROR
8 - 643.8
ERROR
ERROR
9 - 571.6
10 - 560.1
11 - 550.4
12 - 545.3
ERROR
ERROR
13 - 522.5
14 - 516.2
ERROR
ERROR
Then I gave up on that string, which was about the 5th attempt.
So, being that I'm like Jon Snow and know nothing... I mentioned in the previous zeroing video that the bolt was easier to use. I think that shows in these strings as they seem to be a better curve? I'm wondering if I need to make this spring shorter or not. I guess the next step is to remove the action and check the crown. The Hunter Extremes are still very difficult to load. What tool/s are needed for recrowning? I'll have a video of my angry chony session in a bit.
«
Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 06:55:10 PM by GD Giles
»
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Columbus, GA
Hatsan Mod 95 Vortex .22 w/UTG 4-16x40AO
Hatsan Gladius .25 Long w/UTG 3-12x44 AO/IR/SWAT
Umarex Strike Point .22
He played like he was in jail, behind a few bars and couldn't find the key.
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Diana bandit new pistol help me tune it