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Crosman-Benjamin Air Gun Gate
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Topic: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD (Read 4991 times))
uncle paulie
GTA Moderator
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4014
Real Name: Paul
BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
on:
January 12, 2011, 08:16:08 PM »
After tuning my XL1100 things really did tighten up considerably. Seal, hone, GRTIII, the right lubes in all the right places. She was shooting CPHP's at 905fps, with an extreme spread of 9fps. Sounds almost perfect, right? Well, I was getting groups at 20 yds. of a little less than 3/4". Due to the fact this was a magnum, I was pretty happy, and I really did enjoy shooting her. I has ordered Gene's GRS kit, and figured that as long as I was going to knock her down to install the kit, I may as well go all out and see if I could tighten things up a bit more by hand lapping the barrel and anything else I could think of to tighten the grouping up a bit more. I often had dreams of sub-dime groups at 30yds or more.
After I got all set up to do the lapping, got a bicycle hub as suggested in the library for a handle, etc. I proceeded to melt a few pellets and pour them down the barrel. At this point, it's necessary to tap the lap forward to trim the flash and put a few grooves in the lead to hold the bore paste. I tapped it forward until the lap was about half way out and was stopped dead in my tracks. Couldn't believe my eyes, ran to get my glasses to confirm. The rifling was almost non existent! What rifling that was there amounted to just a short(for lack of a better term) mound for each of the lands! There were no sharp edges at all. In order to confirm this was not something that would be considered normal, I fired a few pellets into a bucket of water to be able to examine the fired pellet. What I found was that the pellets are not being "locked" into by the rifling and they are spinning to the point that the grooves on the skirt are virtually touching each other. Something which has to be affecting the accuracy, and would explain the occasional "tumbler" I would get shooting at 20-30yds. I had thought this was due to the pellets themselves.
A call to Crosman has me returning it for a replacement, I'm sure this is not something that is prevalent with the XL's or any of the other fine AG's they produce. I had wanted them to just send me the barrel but none were available so I get to do it all over again. Not that I'm complaining, because I enjoy working on them as much as shooting them!
I've attached a photo of one of the pellets, I've never seen anything like it!
pv
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NJ
Jay
AIN'T THIS A GREAT PLACE TO BE!!!
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2359
"Non Timebo Mala"
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #1 on:
January 12, 2011, 11:05:23 PM »
Wow Paul that look's to of been chewed on by a beaver than ran down a rifled barrel. What did your lapping slug look like when you tapped it out?
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N.R.A. ENDOWMENT,N.R.A./I.L.A.,G.O.A. LIFE, N.R.A. Instructor For C.C.W.,ALL FIREARM'S & RELOADING /No Free Man Shall Ever Be Debarred The Use Of Arm's (Thomas Jefferson). Sheridan's "52" Silver, "79" Silver, "80" Blue, BAM-51 .22, Benji Mrod #31 .22, Benji Trail NP XL .177/.22, Gamo Whisper .177, Beeman RS2 .177/.22, Crosman 1377 .177, B-3-1 AK .177. FIREARM's Far more than I need NOT as many as I want.(More AG's to come I'm sure).
Jman
Expert
Posts: 1093
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #2 on:
January 12, 2011, 11:16:53 PM »
what is lapping paul? Could someone like me do it? I have a block of lead I could use
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shadow
Shadow...ole critter getter
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 19454
Real Name: Ed
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #3 on:
January 12, 2011, 11:21:59 PM »
Sometimes you get a bad barrel as far as rifling or lack of and no amount of tuning will help it. A good barrel out of the gate is a great start to a good tune. Ed
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Michigan
I Hunt... therefore I am
uncle paulie
GTA Moderator
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4014
Real Name: Paul
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #4 on:
January 13, 2011, 07:50:44 AM »
The lapping slug was almost smooth, that's why I had to get my glasses! But it wasn't my eyes! I wish I had thought to keep the slug, but I pushed it all the way through and melted it off the rod to remove the rod from the barrel. I guess all considered, I was getting some fantastic groups with the XL. Basically a loose smoothbore grouping 5/8" at 10 yds.
Jman, check out the library for hand lapping. All the info is there, but it's not something that I'd do if the rifle was as accurate as yours seems to be. At 20yds, I felt my groups should have been better with the tuning and the amount of time I have put into shooting this. I wasn't terribly unhappy with the rifle, but thought it could be better. It certainly took it's share of nutters around here. At 10 yds. in my basement the Sheridan will stack a tin of pellets on top of each other all day long! But I would expect the Sheridan would do that. As I would also expect the XL to group a bit larger as it's a magnum and more hold sensitive. If the XL was grouping around dime size; I would not even have considered a hand lapping job, called it a day and been happy as white on rice!
Now I'm going through that whole anticipation/anxiety routine, waiting for "Baby" to come home to Papa!
pv
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NJ
Jman
Expert
Posts: 1093
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #5 on:
January 13, 2011, 03:21:44 PM »
Sorry about your problem. Good thing Crosman cares about customers problems, Their customer service is awesome as youve probably experienced many times
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uncle paulie
GTA Moderator
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4014
Real Name: Paul
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #6 on:
January 13, 2011, 08:17:54 PM »
Yes, Crosman leads the pack in the customer service race. I just can't figure how it came to be that I never looked down that barrel, even without a bore scope or my glasses, when held up to the light, it was obvious all was not right down on the farm! I had even removed the shroud and gave the crown the Q-tip test, I guess thats why there were no fibers left behind! I guess Oprah would have said that was my Ah-Ha-Moment! At the time, all I could come up with was @$^&%##^&*(!!!!!
Boy, talk about feeling DUMB.
pv
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NJ
Muppit
dave
Expert
Posts: 1349
g1 extreme NP, Titan GP, 2400kt
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #7 on:
January 13, 2011, 08:37:46 PM »
OK IM OFFICALLY DUMB WHAT IS THE Q-TIP TEST
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kill count
0 red squarrels
4 starlings
1 gray squarrel
Jman
Expert
Posts: 1093
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #8 on:
January 13, 2011, 08:46:36 PM »
I think that it is when you swirl a Q-tip around your guns crown, and if it leaves fibers on the crown, aka snags anything, then your accuracy isnt the best it could be. If your gun shoots fine dont worry about your crown. I just eyeballed mine with a flashlight through the shroud. Looks fine I think, and its safe inside of that metal shroud to! The crown is very important in accuracy because it is the last thing that could snag a pellet and cause it to spin oddly because no barrel is left to correct it
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Muppit
dave
Expert
Posts: 1349
g1 extreme NP, Titan GP, 2400kt
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #9 on:
January 13, 2011, 09:12:28 PM »
you would think that the first pellet out the barrel would take any burs with it but if tis a bad crown thats no good thanks im new to this air gun stuff some of its all greek to me
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kill count
0 red squarrels
4 starlings
1 gray squarrel
uncle paulie
GTA Moderator
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4014
Real Name: Paul
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #10 on:
January 13, 2011, 09:16:57 PM »
S'OK Muppet, we were all new to this stuff at one time, heck there are guys on here that have forgotten more than I'll ever hope to know! Think rock,paper scissors.... steel beats lead!
pv
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NJ
Jman
Expert
Posts: 1093
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #11 on:
January 13, 2011, 09:18:32 PM »
haha nice way of sayin it paul
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Muppit
dave
Expert
Posts: 1349
g1 extreme NP, Titan GP, 2400kt
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #12 on:
January 14, 2011, 07:44:01 PM »
yeah steel beats lead you are right . I'm looking at everything from a mechanic s point of view so i am a little lost because I'm taught to lubricate everything. were on air rifles everyone says lube is bad,big learning curve
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kill count
0 red squarrels
4 starlings
1 gray squarrel
uncle paulie
GTA Moderator
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4014
Real Name: Paul
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #13 on:
January 15, 2011, 09:31:41 AM »
No problem muppit, we all bring our life experiences with us and we learn from them. That's a big part of what makes the GTA what it is, sharing our knowledge and ideas with each other so we can all benefit. When you stop asking questions, you might as well just dig the hole and get in!
pv
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NJ
Muppit
dave
Expert
Posts: 1349
g1 extreme NP, Titan GP, 2400kt
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #14 on:
January 15, 2011, 11:22:42 AM »
as my wife would say i've already started that hole and its been getting deeper thanks
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kill count
0 red squarrels
4 starlings
1 gray squarrel
uncle paulie
GTA Moderator
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 4014
Real Name: Paul
Re: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
«
Reply #15 on:
January 15, 2011, 12:12:29 PM »
That happens w/AGitis! Sorry, but you're in good company!
pv
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NJ
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GTA
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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General
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