GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: stacycfi on January 31, 2011, 08:30:26 PM
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Well going in the closet anyway.
Just bought Crosman Titan GP.
While breaking it in I was getting better groups than with the RS2. Got about 150 shots through it today.
Shooting is fun again not just frustration 90% of the time.
The Titan is super smooth to cock and firing is very smooth too.
Trigger need work. I do like the RS2 trigger better. I had polished it and it has a much better 2 stage feel.
The Titans' trigger is plastic and you can tell.
Crosman needs to make the RS2 with the nitro piston and it would be a winner. Imo
It does not seem quite as powerful but what's the use of a cannon if you can't hit anything with it?
Also the stock is not very well suited to me. I am 6'3" and it is a little short and I have a bruise on
my right thumb because of the stock. I guess I will follow in my fathers footsteps and build my own stocks.
I wish to be half as talented as he is tho.
Anyone else like the nitro piston better?
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RS2 was my first gun, and Crossman Titan my second. I loved the smoothness of the Titan after the harshness and vibration of the RS2. Funny thing though, I swore same as you that the RS2 was more powerful. The recoil and vibration gave the feel of more power, but the chrono doesnt lie, and my Titan shoots 25-50 fps faster than the RS2 depending on pellet. Your right, trigger is the weakness. I have CDT trigger waiting to go in, think that will be a real winner.
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That is awesome. supertiger you described my feelings exactly.
There for a while I thought it was just me. And the spring noise was
amazingly loud. Now shooting the Titan is sweet.
I went from 30% hits on soup cans at 50 yards with the RS2 to 95% hits
to the BOTTOM of the cans at 50 yards... maniac laugh.......
Anyway I do NEED a different stock and trigger. Will post when I get that
project off the ground.
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RS2 was my first gun, and Crossman Titan my second. I loved the smoothness of the Titan after the harshness and vibration of the RS2. Funny thing though, I swore same as you that the RS2 was more powerful. The recoil and vibration gave the feel of more power, but the chrono doesnt lie, and my Titan shoots 25-50 fps faster than the RS2 depending on pellet. Your right, trigger is the weakness. I have CDT trigger waiting to go in, think that will be a real winner.
You must have a super titan or had a sick RS2.... Most RS2's will spit your typical 14.3 grain cphp over a chroney in the 750-800 fps range and most titans seem to be in the 680-730 range for the same pellet.....
Also the spring noise and vibration is pretty typical of a untuned springer especialy one in the magnum class like the RS2.... which is where the gas rammed guns really shine they ARE much smoother right outta the box then your typical springers lol!!!!
that being said a properly tuned RS2 is a thing of beauty :) lol I can easily hit cans at 130 yards with mine(there are witnesses here on the forum that can testify to that lol) and the trigers on the RS2 with proper work are just flat out amazing........ for the size of the powerplant these guns are BEASTS and while they can be a bit twitchy(especialy compared to a gas rammed gun) they are no more diffacult to shoot then most other guns in the powerclass.. and if the couple I have tuned are any marker of typical fit... the stock seals can be WAY to tight in the gun which will also cause alot of recoil and slow lock times which makes a twitchy gun even harder to shoot.. I actualy had to take a block into the clocking slot and a hammer to knock my piston out of the gun the seal was so tight..... I sized it down a bit but it is still to tight and I never worried about it becuase next time I tear it down its going to be converted to a JM seal anyways like I did Bart the Farts RS2
BTW I have stuck with the .177 barrel on my RS2 even though they REALLY shine in .22.... mine averages 954 FPS on a stock seal thats WAY to tight in the breach
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I wish I had a crony to tell if my RS2 is sick.
I just know it is VERY hold sensitive I did figure out if I did not hold and really concentrate on pressures that I was
putting on the stock my shots would be all over. I do like a challenge and am always looking to improve my shooting
skills, but this was almost ridicules. I would have a string of 4 or 5 shots right on then couldn't hit anything for 10-15 shots. I have not attempted to remove the spring to check the seal and the surfaces. I have not had time or equipment for a spring compressor.
Just took a hour to polish the trigger on the Titan and it feels a lot smoother. Even with the stock trigger. An adjustable 1st and 2nd stage would be nice tho like Charliedatuna's.
Really need to work on the stock. My right(trigger hand) thumb is aching tonight fron the thumbhole stock.
It's a little odd. If the stock was meant for younger or smaller shooters the trigger is a long way from the grip.
Anyway it would be a lot nicer with a more comfortable stock.
One day I will get back to tuning the RS2 but right now I don't even want to look at it...lol
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stacycfi,
If you like more the Monte Carlos style stocks, I think the Titan and Summit, Quest, Phantom, G1 and Storm stocks would interchange between each other. Can someone correct me if I am wrong but I have read it here before, just do a search and also look in the Library for schematic and part numbers for the stocks.
JC
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Thanks, A Monte Carlo would be tons better.
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Trigger need work. I do like the RS2 trigger better. I had polished it and it has a much better 2 stage feel.
The Titans' trigger is plastic and you can tell.
Crosman needs to make the RS2 with the nitro piston and it would be a winner. Imo
I have not had time or equipment for a spring compressor.
I am a bit confused here because the only way to remove the trigger group for a polish job on the RS2 is with a spring compressor.....
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I built one from this web site, fun to build ,But another thing
taking the gun apart, Take notes! I did not & had to seen it in to a tuner here!! to lube it & get it shootin good ,/Even then the B12
just is a hard to shoot gun! Brother has a Big cat with an GTRIII
& he can hit a dime hole everytime at 20yrds,
My Quest have had atune & that was the best thing ever done!
my TF97 has a Tune best thing ever done.
My b-12 had a tune & not the best ever done!! :-\
that being said all airguns are not the same even in the same model# RS2 with a full tune would make a good shooter.
Ive had airguns for years, & would not have thought a tune would make that much Differance / But it sure does !!
(On some airgins)
Quest 1000X GTRIII
FT97-22
Mod 1377c Carbine,
Daisy 70th Ann,
Daisy 105
crosman 760.
B-3 AKS,
B-12 :(
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Think I do have a weak RS2. I replaced and shimed breach seal, put in a JM spring, JM seal, hone, moly lube etc, and still only getting 700 with 14.3 CPHP's. Not what I expected but don't want to tear it down again, especially since its shooting smooth and consistent.....just weak. My Titan averages 730 with same pellets, and the smoothness amazes me every time I shoot it.If I do open it up again, I'll try a Compasso spring for an TF 89 since they seem to be pushing 800's.
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No. Did not need to remove trigger group. Only the parts that need polished. On the RS2 I followed the directions here:
http://webpages.charter.net/guru1/documents/RSE%20Airguns%20-%20Beeman%20RS2%20trigger%20guide.pdf (http://webpages.charter.net/guru1/documents/RSE%20Airguns%20-%20Beeman%20RS2%20trigger%20guide.pdf)
It was fairly easy to do took about an hour. I used my dremel tool with the grey rubber polishing wheel It made the rough stamped surfaces mirror smooth.
I did make a mistake tho. The trigger on the Titan GP is not plastic. Had a magnet sitting right beside me when I typed that too.
I guess the feel of the pull made it seem like it had a little give like plastic does. No work today and stuck in the house so I got to looking and figured the Titan trigger could use a polish too. 2.5 hours later it's done. The next one would be about 30 minutes. I didn't have a camera to figure out where one spring went back and had to try a couple of different possibilities. Got it back with the help of this page:
http://www.charliedatuna.com/airgun_docs/CBR%20Install%20Guide%20.doc (http://www.charliedatuna.com/airgun_docs/CBR%20Install%20Guide%20.doc)
I polished the Sear, intermediate lever and the trigger. Again with the grey polishing disc. This did improve the trigger feel a lot.
Pretty happy with the trigger now.
One more thing. The stock was killing my thumb. Bad geometry for me anyway. While the dremel was out I chucked up the sanding drum and went to town. I also didn't like the light brown plastic looking finish. About 5 hours of sanding and applying polish here is what I've got. Still going to put a satin clear coat on it.when the stain dries.
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Trying to post a picture of the stock refinished.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8646949@N04/5409746456/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8646949@N04/5409746456/#)
The stain is Red Mahogany
Also the area where I removed material is circled in red.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8646949@N04/5409133553/#in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8646949@N04/5409133553/#in/photostream/)
I also took a good deal of time reshaping the rubber butt pad. Use the mesh drywall sanding screen to make nice work of that.
Then straightened out the lines on the cheek pieces and the forearm was a little wavy too.
BTW a little off topic but how do you post pictures in the message?
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No. Did not need to remove trigger group. Only the parts that need polished. On the RS2 I followed the directions here:
http://webpages.charter.net/guru1/documents/RSE%20Airguns%20-%20Beeman%20RS2%20trigger%20guide.pdf (http://webpages.charter.net/guru1/documents/RSE%20Airguns%20-%20Beeman%20RS2%20trigger%20guide.pdf)
It was fairly easy to do took about an hour. I used my dremel tool with the grey rubber polishing wheel It made the rough stamped surfaces mirror smooth.
Glad you was able to get the group apart and put back together without removing the group housing..... how you managed to do it is still a mystery to me and the risk of dropping one of those tiny springs or a part down inside of the action and not being able to get it back out without tearing the whole thing down anyways was VERY high... especialy that little bugger of a spring between the piston catch and transfer bar.....
other then that to be honest that guide while showing great pictures of the parts and a good explaination on how to adjust the trigger proper is completly &^^& when it comes to what parts should be polished on the trigger group..... the way they have the parts layed out the geometry is COMPLETLY wrong..... next time a customer sends me a RS2 If I remember I will take pictures of proper geometry between the parts......... For example the only part of the transfer bar(the nike swoosh looking peice) that touches the what they call the trigger lever(that in all actuality are the two sear faces what they call the sear is actualy the piston catch...) is the tip... It comes in at an angle and thats why its curved... it rides on the nose......
the whole geometry of they way they have is it just so wrong LOL the what they call "sear" that lower nose they have on there and the tip of the "sear catch" as they call it do NOT mesh up that way.... the nose on the bottom of the "sear" sits down inside the cutout area of the "sear catch" those noses are what cams the sear up and over the the "trigger lever" as they call it when the piston is cocked backwards and pushes on that bump at the rear of the "sear". Then the BACK flat part of the "sear" nose fits into the bottom square face of the "sear catch" when the trigger is pulled the "trigger lever" cams back letting the sear catch drop which is what lets the sear drop from the bottom square notch to the upper square notch(right below the tiney spring) which in turn lets the "sear" drop away and the piston to find its merry way home in the front of the reciver......
there are only 3 places that need touched on that group that will effect how the trigger feels and they only have one of them marked correctly..... there are 2 other areas that can be touched that will smooth out that feel you have when your getting to the end of the cocking stroke and and the trigger group is resetting itself and those arent even marked at all....
the two areas they have marked at the nose of the "Sear catch" and the bottom of the "sear" should never be touched at all since those two parts are what lifts the rear of the "sear catch" and resets the whole thing.... any changes to those could very easily result is a sear thats not fully engadged and can result in either a barrel slam in best case senerio to an accidental discharge where someone or something gets shot or barrel slam with a body part in the way.... and I can promise you the body part WILL lose....
I am not jumping your case :) actualy trying to help brother!!! but having the right tools to do the job safely is a BIG thing we push around here!! And another is to try to debunk false or dangerous information......
Supertiger... The JM spring IS weaker(but smoother) then the stock RS2 spring.... you can shim it out a bit more(the stock spring runs VERY VERY near to being coil bound as well) or you can leave it as it is and it should be a super smooth shooter detuned a bit like you have it now... all you really need is a custom guide and tophat to have setup nicely
Wow I did NOT mean for this to end up being so long.... sometimes though its harder to put into words they way things work then it is to simply show it lol BUT since your not here to look over my shoulder as I show you I tried to do the best I could to explain it :)
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZzzzZZzZZzzZzz ::) ......LOL...... long but good writing.... LOL I'm joking....
JC
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I do agree that the diagram had the wrong geometry.
It took a couple of tries to put the group back together correctly.
I grew up with a gunsmith dad and learned a lot from helping him in the shop. Like MichaelM said do the job safe and right.
Make sure you don't change the sear angles or dimensions.
If someone does not have the tools or the mechanical aptitude DO NOT MESS WITH THE TRIGGER. I felt the polishing that I did and the very little material removed did not impact the safety of the trigger group. I also thoroughly tested the action and firing.
My Titan trigger was a little different than the diagram on charlidatuna's site. My trigger has a spring for the sear that mounts the the sear pin and one for the intermediate lever that mounts to its pivot pin. Not just one between the two. These were a little more difficult to reinstall without removing the trigger housing. But like the RS2 I did not want to take a chance on the trigger housing being an integral part in retaining the piston and trying to remove the whole assembly. And having the spring or piston come undone without a spring compressor.