And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
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Show Off Your Air Guns With Mods (SHOW and TELL)
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And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
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Topic: And here we go again, one .223 comming up. (Read 18350 times))
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #80 on:
June 09, 2018, 12:46:26 AM »
Tanks Terry,
It has been a long build and now if's finally close to being finished. Started this the same time I started the previous.223 project.
This one how ever has the features I would want in a rifle. Balanced valve for easy cocking, removable bolt without tools for easy cleaning. Multi caliber capability without removing the upper from the lower.
Marko
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #81 on:
June 10, 2018, 05:22:49 PM »
First teaser of the complete rifle.
More pictures will follow when the owner has seen the rifle.
Marko
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
Rob M
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 6308
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #82 on:
June 10, 2018, 05:24:59 PM »
incredible, love the breech design
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Louisiana
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #83 on:
June 10, 2018, 05:53:30 PM »
Thanks Rob,
It's much like pb breech, locking lugs in the front and removable bolt.
Marko
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
Hobbyman2007
N.U.A.H. Expert
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 3011
yes
Real Name: Denis
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #84 on:
June 10, 2018, 09:43:28 PM »
Pretty impressive build Marko. Can’t wait to see all the details / more pics.
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Dowling,Ontario, Canada
I like air guns ,and they like me
rintafile
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 654
Real Name: Teemu
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #85 on:
June 10, 2018, 11:43:33 PM »
Ou man...Didin't get much sleep last night...Wonder why?
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Finland
Kike Kukkosen kääkkä kana köhi kyykyssä koko kevään
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #86 on:
June 11, 2018, 12:54:57 AM »
Thinking about the name I gave your rifle?
Marko
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #87 on:
June 11, 2018, 01:58:00 PM »
So lucky shot got his rifle today, we have been testing it out on the range.
Best power seems to be around 280bar, 57gr goes at a whooping 338m/s
I swapped another valve in today and that will stay on the rifle.
Most astonishing that same bullet did 292m/s at 180bar. Valve and porting seems to be about perfect.
We have lot of labradar data to check this evening.
More testing tomorrow.
Marko
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26956
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #88 on:
June 11, 2018, 10:40:24 PM »
Probably running out of barrel at 280 bar, you need a heavier bullet to drop the velocity and gain FPE.... Nice job, guys !!!
Bob
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Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #89 on:
June 12, 2018, 01:45:27 PM »
Nope Bob, its working the same with just about every weight projectile.
Runing around 200J +- 15J with different bullets on 280bar.
Groups average 20-50mm to 100 meters in windy conditions, Teemu shot days best 5 shot group about 10mm.
Marko
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
Rob M
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 6308
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #90 on:
June 12, 2018, 02:06:09 PM »
excellent groups Marko !
I think what Bob means , and I could be wrong , is that the pressure ( 280 bar) would have the lighter pellets continue to accelerate in a longer barrel .. ( in theory , theyd keep picking up speed even in a 4 foot barrel ) Whereas the heavier slugs may not.. So in this length barrel , the fpe numbers would peak faster with heavier slugs.
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Louisiana
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26956
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #91 on:
June 12, 2018, 05:42:04 PM »
Not really.... With the lighter bullets, you are pushing supersonic, and the internal efficiency takes a dump when you do that.... It takes a lot more air, or a lot longer barrel, to make gains.... If the velocity is under 1000 fps, changes in pressure or barrel length make a bigger difference.... If you are reaching over 1100 fps (335 m/s) it's time for a
lighter
heavier
bullet, IMO.... I look for a heavier bullet once I am over 1000 fps.... as the wind drift is increasing quite noticeably at those speeds (about 50% more drift at 1100 than at 900 at 200 yards).... The combination of having to use a lot more air to go faster, and increased wind drift are simply not worth it, IMO....
However, you sure can't beat a group like that at 100 M....
Bob
«
Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 06:07:04 PM by rsterne
»
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
MJP
Member 4400+Fpe Club
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 2136
I'll make it real. For me.
Real Name: Marko
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #92 on:
June 12, 2018, 05:55:27 PM »
I think you meant to say heavier bullets...
anyway that group was shot at around 331m/s, its not always just under supersonic when something works, have seen best groups over 340m/s on some gun / bullet combo.
One more range day tomorrow, today was a good day despite the wind, hitting 10" steel target at 300m with the 20mm using sabots and .516 spitzers. I belive Teemu got that on video also
Same POI at 100m using 120gram bullet as 300m with sabot rounds. Its very consistent to shoot with sabots.
Marko
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Finland
Impossible just takes a little bit longer to achieve.
If an engineer is not presented with a suitable problem, they will create their own!
TPL
Member 3000+Fpe Club
Marksman
Posts: 375
Real Name: Timo
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #93 on:
June 15, 2018, 06:14:36 AM »
Here is LabRadar data for 57 grainer from one shot. Unbeliavable how far it measures those small bullets. Red line is trend curve as there comes increasing noise in the end part. I think it fits well enough to show close to real velocity. At least my LabRadar has always measured longer distance than it was stated to be capable.
X-axis is meters of course.
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Tampere
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26956
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #94 on:
June 15, 2018, 06:45:07 PM »
Just looking at that data, I would throw out anything past about 147 M as you start getting really big spikes in the velocity.... You could even make the same argument for stopping at about 112 M I guess.... Even at that distance, it is wayyyyyyyyyy beyond what LabRadar claim to be the effective range, particularly on a .223 cal bullet.... The data out to about 70 M is rock solid, however.... Taking a distance interval of 60 M (from 10 to 70) and using the red trend line, I get a BC (G1) of about 0.42.... assuming your testing was done at sea level on a "normal" day.... Pretty staggering BC, what does the bullet look like?.... Incidently, I get the same BC between 10 and 145 M....
Bob
«
Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 06:54:19 PM by rsterne
»
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
rintafile
Sharp Shooter
Posts: 654
Real Name: Teemu
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #95 on:
June 16, 2018, 02:46:30 AM »
First on right side
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Finland
Kike Kukkosen kääkkä kana köhi kyykyssä koko kevään
TPL
Member 3000+Fpe Club
Marksman
Posts: 375
Real Name: Timo
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #96 on:
June 16, 2018, 03:56:45 AM »
Weather conditions were; 20C, 1011hPa, 50%RH, elevation 116m. Weather is checked from nearest Finnish Meteorological Institute weather station data in the time of shooting. It is located about 30km from range.
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Tampere
TPL
Member 3000+Fpe Club
Marksman
Posts: 375
Real Name: Timo
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #97 on:
June 16, 2018, 10:55:01 AM »
And I agree the rest part of LabRadar data is pretty much useless but just somehow "incidentally" trend line will always give the same BC... Maybe it just is what trend line is for.
We also tested with heavier bullets of course and naturally speed with them is lower but calculated energy was quite accurately the same. Only some 5% difference recardless the weight.
What comes to efficiency I must say we are not that much interested of it because hunting with airguns is not allowed here and we have a compressor and booster on range every time. What we are interested of is only consistency and accuracy. And power of course. Our situation is we have enough air for almost anything, interest in development and a lot of fun as a side effect. There are apples and oranges yet both are fruits.
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Tampere
rsterne
Member 2000+fps Club
Bob and Lloyd
GTA Senior Contributor
Posts: 26956
GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
Real Name: Bob
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #98 on:
June 16, 2018, 01:31:11 PM »
Yes, the trendline can be a great tool.... but a linear trendline for a bullet (which looks like what you used?) shouldn't be correct when you are starting near Mach 1.... The bullet is slowing down more at the beginning, you can see that on your chart, it is above the trendline from the muzzle to about 30 M, then slightly below, the appears to be above again from 90-100 M.... If you threw out the data over 112M (which would increase the resolution of the graph) and redid the trendline using a Polynomial you should start to see that curve.... Then use that to calculate the BC.... If you only used the data out to 70M the curve would be even more pronounced.... Just a suggestion....
Bob
Logged
Coalmont, BC, Canada
🇺🇦
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! 🇺🇦
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).
TPL
Member 3000+Fpe Club
Marksman
Posts: 375
Real Name: Timo
Re: And here we go again, one .223 comming up.
«
Reply #99 on:
June 16, 2018, 02:10:31 PM »
Ok, data is not a secrecy but how can I share it? Suggestions?
Silly me, stupid question, sent.
«
Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 02:53:53 PM by TPL
»
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Tampere
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GTA
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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General
»
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Show Off Your Air Guns With Mods (SHOW and TELL)
(Moderators:
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,
ezman604
,
Tater
) »
And here we go again, one .223 comming up.