GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Archery => Topic started by: Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) on April 16, 2022, 02:59:51 PM
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I've got a new Air Javelin Pro coming. I've been waiting on the arrow barrel kit for the FX Crown, but it's still not arrived, so when Umarex had a sale this weekend, I figured what the heck, I'd give it a try! I'll do a brief review once it arrives since I've not seen anything about the new HPA version on here anywhere, other than a few conversions.
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you referring to this
https://www.umarexusa.com/new-for-2022-the-airjavelin-hpa-adapter-blog (https://www.umarexusa.com/new-for-2022-the-airjavelin-hpa-adapter-blog)
i havent heard much about results either./. My guess is most people are buying off the shelp 850 psi tanks , which yeild no gains so they never post it.. id go 1200 psi , and maybe swap out the hammer spring. the reality is , all the tanks sold are generally 850, 1800, or 2200 on the major sites.. And the sweet spot is likely 1100 to 1400..
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It looks like it would take down some good sized game too. Looking forward to your review Paul.
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you referring to this
https://www.umarexusa.com/new-for-2022-the-airjavelin-hpa-adapter-blog (https://www.umarexusa.com/new-for-2022-the-airjavelin-hpa-adapter-blog)
i havent heard much about results either./. My guess is most people are buying off the shelp 850 psi tanks , which yeild no gains so they never post it.. id go 1200 psi , and maybe swap out the hammer spring. the reality is , all the tanks sold are generally 850, 1800, or 2200 on the major sites.. And the sweet spot is likely 1100 to 1400..
No I went with the Pro version, it just has a 121ci cylinder, but takes a 4500 psi fill and the regulator is set at 1500 psi. They claim it will push the bolts at 375 FPS for 25 ethical kills. With the 15% off and no tax, it was well under $300, which put it much closer to the price of the CO2 Javelin and the adapter. This way I don't have to mess with tearing it down and installing the HPA kit.
It looks like it would take down some good sized game too. Looking forward to your review Paul.
They claim it will take Deer and Turkey. I'll probably just punch holes in bales of straw with it! Unless some hapless rat wanders into range... ;D
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had no idea that existed , looks awesome !! you should be able to drop anything in north america ( or a rat )
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Comparing MSRP to MSRP at Umarex.com, the Javelin Pro is $319.99, the CO2 powered Air Javelin is $189.99, the HPA Adapter is $59.99 and the Air Venturi 13ci tank they recommend from PA is $79.99 so it end up at a grand total of $329.97! This is without discounts, tax or shipping. A more realistic figure, using the discount code APRSHOWER (15% off, no sales tax and free shipping) brought the grand total to $271.99 for the Air Javelin Pro, shipped.
Using the currently available discounts at Umarex (APRSHOWER) and PA (RABBIT12), the CO2 Air Javelin and required accessories would cost $297.42 after adding tax and shipping for the PA portion ($212.48 for rifle and adapter + $84.98 for the 13ci Tank). So for $25.43 less, you save yourself the work of dissassembling the rifle to install the adapter and tank, while getting a better looking arrow gun with a 4500 psi fill and 1500 psi regulator as opposed to the 3000 psi fill and 1100 psi regulator of the conversion kit. The specs also say the conversion kit will increase velocity from 300 FPS to 320 FPS, where the Pro's specs say 370 FPS. I'll know more once it arrives later this week. That was a lot of brain work to show getting the Pro was pretty much a no-brainer! ;D
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A Yogi Bear correctional tool, a big far Rubber Blunt 3/4" dia
and apply to the seat of behind and Yogi will get the message real quick.
Works very well on cow critters that decided to use the camp trailer,
as a rubbing post......1 big OLD range Bull took 3 lessons before it sunk in....LOL
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I was looking at critter gitter tips on Amazon and saw where they have some foam covered tips. The problem with this thought process is the chain-link fence separating my backyard from the woods behind. The Bears pretty much stay on their side of the fence, but trying to launch a foam tipped arrow through chain-link probably won't go well and neither will putting myself on the same side of the fence as the Bear and then launching a foam tipped arrow into their bumm! I can't imagine either scenario ending well! :o ;D
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I got some time today to shoot JP (Javelin Pro, as coined by BB Pelletier) at 40 yards. First off, I will say it's loud! Much louder than any other air gun I own, and no way to really yone it down! I was able to attach the FX Radar Chrony to it and here are the numbers, starting off with a 4000 psi fill down to just over 3000 psi:
Shot count: 12
Low: 295
Hi: 353
Avg: 341
Spread: 58
STD Dev: 15.0
353
349
348
348
344
344
344
344
342
340
341
295
That last shot was taken with the blunt critter gitter tip, which was 95 grains. The regular tips on the Umarex arrows are 50 grain and the arrows weigh 120 grain. So, the first 11 arrows were 170 grain total and the last was 215 grain and it fell short of the target aiming at the bottom left target on the bag. The last 4 shots are shown below. At an average spead of approximately 345 FPS (a bit shy of the advertised 370 FPS), I was not getting hte consistancy that those paid YouTubers seem to be getting! Oh well, I guess reality varies a bit from the YouTube hype!
I did get a variety of different arrow tips to try, but based on the results of the last shot, I don't know how effective they will be since they range in weight from 95 to 125 grain. The heavier tips may not have the umph needed to shoot at 40 yeards, which is the typical distance I'm shooting, eight on paper or on rats!
Construction is pretty much all plastic. On a positive not, it is light at only 4.5 lbs. Some of the immediately obvious cons are the trigger and the butt stock. The trigger has an extremely long pull, which I don't mind that much, but the break at the end seems like it's a 30 lbs break! My hand was getting tired after those 12 shots! Granted, I am spoiled with the triggers on my other airguns, especially the AA, FX and Benjamin Craftsman series rifles, they break extremely crisp and light! I have no idea if the trigger is the same as on the CO2 version of the Javelin or not. I have search for disassembly videos but thus far there are none to be found. Not knowing how it's pyt together internally, coupled by the 50 some odd screws it looks like you have to remove to get the two halves apart, I'm not ready to dive into that project! But I would be nice if all it took was swapping out a couple spring with lighter one so you don't end up looking like Popeye after a couple shooting session!
The Butt Stock is disappointing becaise it does not have a high enough cheek weld and it doesn't appear as though it can be removed and swapped with another AR Style Butt Stock, which would have been really nice, since I have one with a cheek riser built in!
Oh yea, one other thing, and this is probably a carry over from the CO2 Javelin. It have a fore grip release that allows the fore grip to slide away from the receiver portion of the rifle. The problem is, it can't go anywhere! It's molded to wrap pretty much all the way around the air cylinder, so it would have to be slid all the way off the tube. The problem lies in the fact you have an air guage and a burst disc that prevent this from happening! Ooops! Some engineer didn't think that one through! Now, if they had placed the gauge at the end of the air cylinder and used a fill probe it would have worked, but Umarex sure makes a big deal out of the gauge being on the side and it's filled with a regular male foster fitting. Don't get me wrong, I like both features, but they should have redesigned the fore grip so it could be pulled forward and then down to remove it from the rifle. Now, having said that, I really don't know if removing it serves any purpose or not, but the manual does show how to press the release button, but fails to mention why you'd need to do so...
Anyway, that's it for now, I will add to this as I work through it and get more familiar with it. Here are some pics to enjoy!
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looks awesome ;D
as for the varying tip weights , thats easily solved once you know what the goal for the day is. Its too bad no one has documented the trigger internals..im sure its the same on the co2 version./
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Paul thats a paintball trigger inside , an old school one.. the " lawyer spring " is the front one , it appears pretty stiff with little to No M.a .. a lighter spring in the front pocket will change the gun
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52022845739_7d7bbde674_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ng5FAc)for paul (https://flic.kr/p/2ng5FAc) by murphyrobert9 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/56743574@N07/), on Flickr
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Thanks Rob! I found this picture on another post about the CO2 Javelin, it looks like there is another spring behind the trigger mechinism also. I'm hoping once more get into people's hands we'll start seeing more of the innards and some suggestions on improvements. I'd also like to know if the regulator and/or rhe hammer spring tension may be adjustable since I'm not getting the rated FPS, it would be nice to be able to increase it a little. I do have some 100 grain field tips coming so I can zero it using them and hopefully, get it a bit closer to where it needs to be to use some of those specialty tips! I'd love to get a video of nailing a rat with an arrow, but right now, accuracy isn't consistant enough for me to even try it!
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yea, same thread.. if you swapped those 2 out , youd likley have a 2lb trigger ( and shorten the gap from trigger to sear with a spacer
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Wow thats a nice slow descending string. Great review Paul.
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Iremember watching a YT video where the guy extended the folding stock and showed a slanting "port" that allows you to insert a round tip hex. That should allow you to increase/decrease the hammer spring tension. Starts at about the 1:50 - ish minute mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDKT4nhWZ-w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDKT4nhWZ-w)
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Iremember watching a YT video where the guy extended the folding stock and showed a slanting "port" that allows you to insert a round tip hex. That should allow you to increase/decrease the hammer spring tension. Starts at about the 1:50 - ish minute mark
Great video! Thank you! I saw the slot on the top of the stock tube and wondered if it had an adjustable hammer? This is good to know and may help get my velocity to at lease factor specs! The bit o the trigger was good info also. It sure is a weird design, but maybe just swapping the two springs will make it lighter. I can see where some deburring and polishing of the two ends of the sear piece might help as well. I'm just not real trrilled about removing the hundred screws that hold everything together!
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Today I opened up the Air Javelin Pro (AJP) to take a look inside. Wow, what a project! This gun if totally plastic with the exception of the air cylinder, valve housing, barrel, hammer, springs and a couple of the trigger parts! The are a total of 27 screws holding the two halved together and 18 little rubber plugs that cover that many screws!
I used a small dull edged pick to remove the rubber plugs by pushing down on one side and then just popping them out. Then I removed the 3 screws on the fore grip and took that off. You do have to release the Fore Grip release button and pull it away form the rest of the gun to get the top half off. There are 2 screws (the 2 furthest back on the rifle) that will release the stock and allow access to the hammer spring and the bolt spring.
After those two part are removed, you can remove the remaining 22 screws and separate the two halves. The screws are different lengths, so I just loosened them all but left them in their respective holes so theere was no guessing which screw went where when I put it back together! I took these pictures before I started so I'd know which holes the rubber plugs came out of:
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After the ywo halves were separated, you have access to everything in the gun! Not that there is much there, but what is is easy to get to!
I worked on the trigger first. I swapped both springs for some I had in my Harbor Freight Spring assortment. The Trigger spring I used was a 7/32 X 11/16" compression Spring, the sear spring is a ¼ X ⅞" Extension Spring. This did a lot to lighten the first stage trigger pull.
Next I pulled the Trigger, Sear and Hammer and smoothed any burrs from the surfaces. Next using my Dremmel and some Flitz, I polisged all the contact surfaces.
Here are some pictures of the surfaces that got smoothed and polished. The last set of pictures show the trigger put back together and a couple close ups of the springs I used. The last pictures are the two original springs that were removed.
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Next, I disassembled the stock, more to just see how the hammer spring adjuster worked. The Butt Stock that comes on the AJP can not be easily removed like most Mil Spec AR Butt Stocks. To remove it, I had to remove the pin that retained the spring and adjustment bolt. I did not take it all the way out, I just used a ⅛" punch and pushed it our far enough for the spring to release. Once the presssure was off, the stock came right off.
Aftwer removing the 4 screws that hold the 2 halves of the stock tube together you can see the hammer spring adjuster. As mention in another thread, the set screw was turned all the way in, so it was not applying any additional pressure to the hammer spring as all. It took quite a few turns in the counter clock-wise direction before the adjuster started to move. To adjust it, you need a 4mm allen with the ball tip. The adjuster screw is in a straight line with the spring and the access hole is at an angle, so a straight allen end with no work.
I adjusted it till it was flush with the retaining plate, so it should still be at the factory tension and I can adjust from here to see what happens. As mentioned previously, there are only two screws that hold the stock to the rifle, so you don't have to disassemble the entire rifle to access the spring.
Because the stock butt stock was way to low for me, I but a FAB Defense Butt Stock on that had a nicce Creek Riser. This fits me much better and gives me a good solid cheek rest. It's OD Green instead of the Dark Earth Brown, but I kind of like the OD Green better and will probably end up painting the fore grip to match in the near future!
Here are some picture of the but stock pin and hammer spring adjuster. Also a couple of pictures with it all put back together with the FAB Defense Butt Stock. And, for anyone interested, a pic of the HF Spring Assortment.
Unfortunately, It's a beautiful day and the neighbors are already out in their pool (well the kids anyway, it's only 70 degrees out and the pool water is only 72, but kids will be kids!). This is quite loud, so will have to wait till during the week when they are all at work and school and I can try out the new trigger springs and run some arrows over the chrony to see what, if anything, that hammer spring adjuster will do! Stay tuned!
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:o The OE springs look like they were repurposed old bead springs LOL.
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wow , awesome , its gonna be a different gun with those new springs. curious to see what the gains are with the adjuster.
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Okay, so I couldn't take it anymore! I went out into the woods behind the house and dry fired it twice, just to get a feel for the trigger. gracious, what a difference! I can't believe the difference a couple spring and a little polish will do! I haven't tested the trigger pull weight (should have before doing it), but I can tell it's less than half what it was before and much smoother. To a point where it's going to be a joy to shoot instead of a struggle! No Popeye forearms for me!
I also did another quick mod. The slide rail the Fore Grip slides on just happens to be the same general dimensions as a Picatinny rail, minus the slots! So, using the edge of a file, I made a slot so I can now mount a bipod!
Since the for grip is essentially just cosmetic on the AJP, it would have been nice if Umarex could have just went a heat and moulded 3-4 slots into the front end of that rail for this purpose. Oh well...
One last thing, there is a 2.5mm Allen wrench included with the rifle. For the life of me I could not figure out what it was for since the trigger is not adjustable and the hammer spring adjuster is 4mm. Turns out it's for degassing the rifle. Yep, on the fill cap, right between the gauge and burst disc is a small opening. In that opening is a tiny set screw you can use to degass the rifle if needed!
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I got some time to do some shooting today. The standard Arrows with the 50 grain tips (170 grain total weight) are shooting right at 344 FPS. I swapped the tips to 100 grain field tips (now 220 grain total) and the velocity dropped to around 295 FPS, and range dropped to no more than 20 yards. The scope is maxed out on elevation in order to get the heavier arrows hitting the bullseye.
I swapped to the 100 grain tips to zero at that weight since the small game tips are also 100 grain. Now that it's zeroed, I'm ready to attemp to take a rat with it! I did swap the scope to the ATN X-Sight II so I can capture the shot on video. If I actually hit it, it should make for an interesting video! But, getting set up and being able to take a shot at 20 yards, when I'm typically set-up at 40 yards will be a challenge. Hopefullt, the rat will cooperate!
Also, while I had it set up with the chrony, I tried adjusting the hammer spring tension to see if it increased velocity. It actually did just the opposite! 3 full turn in dropped velocit to around 330 FPS, so I backed it back off to regain the 344 FPS. I may have to source a replacement spring and try clipping a couple coils from it to see if a shorted spring will increase velocity some.
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thats really odd. must be that the poppet bottoms out internally with more hammer , and restricts the air path
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Yea, I have no idea. But, I don’t want to mess with the stock spring just in case! If I can find another spring I can experiment a bit and see if a shorter or lighter spring makes a difference.
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Hi Rat Sniper/PaulT58
So how did the trigger turn out. Is the weight good and still safe. Did you do any bump tests. Just curious because I would like to do mine
Thanks Marco
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Hi Rat Sniper/PaulT58
So how did the trigger turn out. Is the weight good and still safe. Did you do any bump tests. Just curious because I would like to do mine
Thanks Marco
The mod did nothing to shorten the trigger pull, so it's still as long as it was, it's just much lighter and smoother. It's still way heavier than any other trigger on any of my other rifles, but a vast improvement over what it was! I have not tried a bump test, but I'm pretty certain it will be fine since I did not alter any of the original geometry of the trigger mechinism, I just removed any burs and polished the contact surfaces so it's much smoother now. The lighter springs and polishing didn't change the engagement point with the hammer, so you still have the full amount of sear engaged with the hammer when cocked. Had there been a way to lessen that engagement then I would have been concerned. The final break, while much smoother than it was, is still quite heavy, but it's much easier to hold on target.
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Thanks for the reply on the trigger mod. A lighter pull to stay on target is just what it needs.
Thanks again Marco
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It made a huge difference! I just uploaded a video to the hunting gate, I just took my first rat with it!
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I did the trigger spring mod and polish on my air javelin this afternoon and it is a big improvement over stock configuration. It only took about 30 minutes to complete. Thanks rat sniper for taking the time to share it with the forum.
Marco
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I did the trigger spring mod and polish on my air javelin this afternoon and it is a big improvement over stock configuration. It only took about 30 minutes to complete. Thanks rat sniper for taking the time to share it with the forum.
Marco
You're most welcome! I'm glad it helped improve your Air Javelin!
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Yesterday I finished the AJP Project by painting the fore grip to match the Butt Stock. It's all Dark Army Green now. At a later date, I may repaint the entire gun (since it's pretty much all plastic) with one of my Redneck Camo paint jobs! That may be a winter project...
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Paul
If you haven't seen this info before, check this out: there is 5 parts,
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/07/umarex-air-javelin-airbow-part-5/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/07/umarex-air-javelin-airbow-part-5/)
Hth's
Don
Yesterday I finished the AJP Project by painting the fore grip to match the Butt Stock. It's all Dark Army Green now. At a later date, I may repaint the entire gun (since it's pretty much all plastic) with one of my Redneck Camo paint jobs! That may be a winter project...
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Paul
If you haven't seen this info before, check this out: there is 5 parts,
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/07/umarex-air-javelin-airbow-part-5/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/07/umarex-air-javelin-airbow-part-5/)
Hth's
Don
Yesterday I finished the AJP Project by painting the fore grip to match the Butt Stock. It's all Dark Army Green now. At a later date, I may repaint the entire gun (since it's pretty much all plastic) with one of my Redneck Camo paint jobs! That may be a winter project...
I did see that Don! Lots of relevant information, even if it is the CO2 version! I just mounted a Hawle XB1 Crossbow scope on it and sighted it in with the 170 grain arrows. The screws, pencil erasers and adhesive should be here tomorrow, so I can start assembling and testing my Wat-Wacker Arrow Tips! I got ¾" Stainless Steel screws, but now I'm wondering if I should have gotten aluminum screws to keep the weight down? I'm really hoping they don't weigh much over 50 grains! I guess time will tell...
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Got my parts in to build my Wat Wacker Arrow Tips! These are yet untested because at this point I'm not sure how to test them! I'm really quite pleased with how they turned out, I just super glued a #8-32 X 3/4 in, Grade 18-8 Stainless Steel Phillips head Machine screw into a Hi-Polymer White Cap Eraser, put a small o-ring on the screw to seal in the air and screwed them onto the arrow. They feel very secure and to my amazement the tips weigh exactly 60 grains, just 10 grains more than the stock Field Tips, so I'm hoping they perform as well as the standard arrows.
I just need to find some time to ensure they are on target because I already have another fat rat hanging out at the feed station waiting to be whacked!
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Whack'em and stack'em! ;D
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Whack'em and stack'em! ;D
I'm going to erase them, it will be as if they never existed! :P ;D
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Paul
Make sure that tapered head don't plane on you,
adjust the tapered end to sit 12/6 when lined up, if it does,
cut about 1/8" of the tapered end and try again.
I used to use a 38 Spcl case glued on the end of arrows, called "Splat ends",
will completely travel thru sage bunnies, with a big hole and Dirt napped bunny,
right there....... ;)
ps, carry a water jug as you have to wash off the mess.......LoL ;)
Don
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I received my package from Umarex yesterday, they replaced it with a new one, so I'll probably never know what actually failed on the last one!
This time, I took a measurement of the trigger pull prior to working on it. The first reading (see below) was 10 lbs 10.1 oz, the second was 10 lbs 8 oz and the third was 9 lbs 11.9 oz! I'll test it again after I polish all the contact surfaces and replace the springs with lighter ones.
This one is shooting slightly faster than the last one, but still well under the advertised 370 FPS! Here is a 7 shot string from 4000 psi down to just under 3000 psi:
Shot count: 7
Low: 348
Hi: 357
Avg: 353
Spread: 9
STD Dev: 3.1
357
355
354
353
350
351
348
The last the broken AJP averaged 344 FPS over a 5 shot string, this one is averaging 353 FPS over 5 shots.
After zeroing it, I tried the Wat-Wacker tips! These didn't work quite as I imagined, but I'm sure they will smack a rat! They penetrated my arrow backstop rather than bouncing off as I was hoping. They also proved to be a one time use item! I won't be shooting them into my arrow backstop any more because they really tore some holes in it! Below is an after picture of the tips and the target I was shooting that was placed in from of the arrow backstop. The shot that is centered, but low, was after a scope adjustment. It still needs to go up about 8 clicks, but I only made 3 Wat-Wacker arrows, so will need to build some more and figure out something else to use as a backstop!
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awesome !!! now we know how bad the factory trigger is
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I wonder if there is a more blunt option? Clearly the wedge shape allows for ample penetration, but maybe too much?
Could something like this work better?:https://www.ebay.com/itm/121878135652?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&var=420871193914 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/121878135652?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&var=420871193914)
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That's exactly what I'd like, but want something lighter. I'd like to find something that retains the OEM tip weight os 50 grains. The erasers attached to the #6-32 screw weighed 60 grains, 10 more than I wanted. I may try cutting off the tip so it's blunt like those, that should shave some weight also. But, then I run the risk of the arrow pushing through the eraser on impact.
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Holy Weight Loss Batman! It's amazing what a little light sanding, polish, some dry lube and a couple HF springs will do for a trigger! I tested the AJP this morning after polishing the contact points and replacing the stock springs with a couple from my Harbor Freight assortment. It went from and average of about 10 lbs 5 ounces to and average of 3 lbs 6 ounces! I know it felt like a significant difference when I did it to the first one, but I never tested that one before I did the trigger work, and ended up putting it back to stock to send it in before having to test it afterwards. So, now I know why it felt sooo much better afterwards! Below are pics of the three tests.
I also happened upon a sale at DVOR right after sending the AJP in for repair, and they had the exact same butt stock I had on the old one, but this one just happened to be Dark Earth Brown! It arrived yesterday, so instead of painting the foregrip to match the OD Green buttstock I had on the old one, this one got a brand new Dark earth Brown one to match the foregrip and trigger! It's not a perfect match, but then neigher was the OD Green on the last one, but it will do!
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awesome !!! now we know how bad the factory trigger is
Real bad! But, it doesn't take much to shave 7 lbs of trigger pull off of it! ;D
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awesome results !!!!!!!!!!!
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Sorry to revive this thread, wish I'd found it months ago when I was shopping for an airbow. (I bought the Benjamin) It took hrs and hrs to find out what I could've read in 10 min in this thread. Great stuff! I knew the trigger could be enhanced and estimated 3 1/2lbs smooth pull was probable. (most pcp's triggers can be reduced to about 1/3) My concern was that every ounce of claimed power was needed to humanely drop a white tail. Reports indicate it's not quite up to the 370fps. Since their regulator is sealed, I don't know of any way to get the power up, unless;
The last question I have is: If the hammer spring is long enough, I wonder if RatSniper, or someone, could just use a saw/dremel to shorten the plastic block nesting the spring. Guess you'd have to destroy that item to test a lower spring strength. OR, https://www.mcmaster.com/compression-springs/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/compression-springs/) try a weaker spring. If the hammer spring is already in its' sweet spot and 350fps is it, oh well.
Umarex claims a 1500psi regulated pressure. A slightly more robust spring within their sealed regulator chould get the pressure up to 1600psi likely yielding the power for satisfactory deer hunting (IMO).
I'm grateful for this thread; great info. If someone could report a way for us pcp'ers to get an average 370fps = 52ft lbs, I'd buy the airjavelin pro in a heartbeat. :P
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Randy, My experience was the spring adjustment didn't make any noticible difference. I'm not sure a lighter or shorter spring would increase velocity. Increasing the regulator pressure output would have a bigger impact.