GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => American/U.S. Air Gun Gates => Crosman-Benjamin Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Turbolung on May 25, 2013, 11:50:28 PM
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Can anyone tell me if 20 full passes with bore paste and a nylon bore brush on a new factory barrel is enough? I want to bring the best I can out of what I got... And if I can debur and smooth out imperfections for better accuracy I want to do it right..
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I usually do about 15 passes with JB Bore paste changing out the patch after every five passes. Clean barrel and then about 15 passes with Simichrome and clean. Check the bore and it not mirror smooth repeat.
DT
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i agree with mr DT
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I've recently been using a method recommended to my by SeanMP who laps barrels regularly.... I use the VFG cleaning pellets in the appropriate size, two of them screwed onto their brass adapter.... I got the one with 8-32 threads to fit my cleaning rod.... You put some oil on the pellets and add some JBs Bore Paste (coarse) and working from the breech polish the bore 100 strokes full length, but trying not to push the pellets all the way through the muzzle.... I add more Bore Paste about every 25 strokes.... Then I do 4 strokes an inch short of the muzzle, 4 more 2" short, 4 more 3" short of the muzzle, etc. so that the breech end gets a total of 200 strokes but the muzzle end only 100.... I then clean the bore with solvent and patches until all the bore paste has been removed and then repeat the entire process using new cleaning pellets and JB Bore Bright (fine).... followed by a thorough cleaning and one patch lightly oiled.... By the time I'm done, the bore is like a mirror, and the chamber and leade are completely smoothed up....
Once you have put at least 100 rounds through the barrel, polish using the same method, but 10-25 strokes, full length, with the fine Bore Bright only.... You are trying to remove excess lead, but leave the lead in the micro scratches in the bore.... You repeat this process until the groups no longer tighten up.... After that, the barrel seldom needs cleaning.... I've only just begun to use this method, but it certainly seems to make a difference.... Sean seems to get miraculous results, it's pretty neat when you see a barrel from a QB pass the "Feinwerkbau Test" where you can put a pellet in the hole in a paper target made by a 5-shot group at 10M and it doesn't fall out.... This is from my .224 cal Hayabusa....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Hayabusa%20PCP/IMG_3037_zps56d033f8.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Hayabusa%20PCP/IMG_3037_zps56d033f8.jpg.html)
That's a 41.5 gr. RN bullet sitting in the hole from a 5 shot group at 7 yards (all the distance I have indoors).... The gun shoots those at ~1030 fps, the same power as a .22LR target load.... The .22 Hornet barrel was prepared as above....
Bob
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So its safe to run another 20 passes with the nylon brush? Hard to believe a nylon brush will remove burrs..
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I've never used a Nylon brush.... I did try a cotton swab, but they weren't tight enough, so I use Bore Paste and Bore Brite on tight fitting VFG felt cleaning pellets.... It's not the felt (or nylon) that does the work, it's the abrasive.... It embeds into the felt and acts like a plug of sandpaper that conforms to the bore and spins as it goes up and down the rifling.... That is why it's important to use a cleaning rod that can rotate in the handle.... so that the felt pellet can follow the rifling grooves and not slide across them....
Bob
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I've recently been using a method recommended to my by SeanMP who laps barrels regularly.... I use the VFG cleaning pellets in the appropriate size, two of them screwed onto their brass adapter.... I got the one with 8-32 threads to fit my cleaning rod.... You put some oil on the pellets and add some JBs Bore Paste (coarse) and working from the breech polish the bore 100 strokes full length, but trying not to push the pellets all the way through the muzzle.... I add more Bore Paste about every 25 strokes.... Then I do 4 strokes an inch short of the muzzle, 4 more 2" short, 4 more 3" short of the muzzle, etc. so that the breech end gets a total of 200 strokes but the muzzle end only 100.... I then clean the bore with solvent and patches until all the bore paste has been removed and then repeat the entire process using new cleaning pellets and JB Bore Bright (fine).... followed by a thorough cleaning and one patch lightly oiled.... By the time I'm done, the bore is like a mirror, and the chamber and leade are completely smoothed up....
Once you have put at least 100 rounds through the barrel, polish using the same method, but 10-25 strokes, full length, with the fine Bore Bright only.... You are trying to remove excess lead, but leave the lead in the micro scratches in the bore.... You repeat this process until the groups no longer tighten up.... After that, the barrel seldom needs cleaning.... I've only just begun to use this method, but it certainly seems to make a difference.... Sean seems to get miraculous results, it's pretty neat when you see a barrel from a QB pass the "Feinwerkbau Test" where you can put a pellet in the hole in a paper target made by a 5-shot group at 10M and it doesn't fall out.... This is from my .224 cal Hayabusa....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Hayabusa%20PCP/IMG_3037_zps56d033f8.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Hayabusa%20PCP/IMG_3037_zps56d033f8.jpg.html)
That's a 41.5 gr. RN bullet sitting in the hole from a 5 shot group at 7 yards (all the distance I have indoors).... The gun shoots those at ~1030 fps, the same power as a .22LR target load.... The .22 Hornet barrel was prepared as above....
Bob
Do they make a jag adapter for the .177 felt pellets, cant seem to find one. smallest I found was .22 Thanks
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Yup need to use a SNUG fitting patchs and a good rod that rotates within handle freely.
Also do 50-100 pass's followed up with semi-chrome polish and a good cleaning.
**Just what I do personally ...
Final treatment is running a patch with Paste wax up and down a 1/2 doz times, let bore with wax on it dry for an hour or so and then a couple dry patches to clear it.
Deadly accurate barrel after that. Also use Krytek treated pellets ;)
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This looks interesting, where can one get the jag, pellets and paste to do this?
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Brownells....
Bob
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Resurrecting old thread...
When you say "100 passes", does a pass count as down the barrel and back, or is down one pass and back is the second pass?
Yes, I'm OCD.
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I do pretty much the same thing. I used a jag from Walmart with a small patch with a finger tip smear of the paste and some 30 weight oil. Down and up was one pass. Did 10 passes, tossed the patch. Reloaded another patch, and stopped 1" +/-, and repeated til I only pushed the jag down an inch or so from breech side. Never pushed all the way through the muzzle side. 24" barrel = a lot of passes. Then for giggles, I just did random depth passes fairy quick. Barrel got real warm when I was done.
Compared to an unpolished barrel I have, while shining a flashlight from one end and looking into the other end, it was a night and day improvement. Super shiny.
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Resurrecting old thread...
When you say "100 passes", does a pass count as down the barrel and back, or is down one pass and back is the second pass?
Yes, I'm OCD.
Each trip one way is a pass, return trip is not counted.
Tho honestly being so little material is being removed / polished really does not matter if end results end up the same place .... No ?
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Where do you get Krytek? Would it be under any other names?
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(http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/product-media/36Y/1000/1000/QPFLK04.jpg)
Where do you get Krytek? Would it be under any other names?
Finish Line products. It is a Chain lube product.
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Trevor,
Like Scott said, there is so little material being removed that there is nothing magical about the number 100...meaning whether you do 100 passes (in & out), or 50 in + 50 out and count it as 100, you'll do no wrong. Barrels differ in the amount of polishing necessary to achieve optimal performance based on how good or bad they are to begin with. That's why some folks will polish a bit, shoot some groups, then polish some more, and shoot some more groups to see if there was an incremental improvement. Repeat until there is no improvement.
I'm a little OCD too so I understand your apprehension of either doing too much polishing so you end up doing more harm than good, or doing too little polishing and not really doing any good. To that end, 100 passes is probably about as likely to be the right number for an arbitrary barrel as is the number 50 or 200.
I would say the technique and the tools and materials are more important than the number. Work from the breech end, progressively less polishing at the muzzle than at the breech, don't exit the crown (muzzle), use a good non-embedding ball bearing rod, oil the patches (or VFG pellets) to help float away the swarf so the bore paste can work effectively, etc.
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I've recently been using a method recommended to my by SeanMP who laps barrels regularly.... I use the VFG cleaning pellets in the appropriate size, two of them screwed onto their brass adapter.... I got the one with 8-32 threads to fit my cleaning rod....
Does that take care of the sharp edges at the beginning of the rifling and in the transfer port?
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No, if it were aggressive enough to deburr the transfer port and leade, it would be too harsh for the bore. Use some 320 or 400 grit paper on a dowel or skewer to take care of those areas first before polishing the bore.
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I've recently been using a method recommended to my by SeanMP who laps barrels regularly.... I use the VFG cleaning pellets in the appropriate size, two of them screwed onto their brass adapter.... I got the one with 8-32 threads to fit my cleaning rod....
Does that take care of the sharp edges at the beginning of the rifling and in the transfer port?
Actual Burrs, sharp edges, need a MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE approach to eliminate. Generally done with specific tooling allowing SPOT touch up work without wearing away on areas not needing it.
Cratex points sized to get at and a shape fitted to task at hand can be very useful.
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I like to fire lap my Crosman barrels some need 20+ shots some just a couple...
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I don't count the return trip either.... This is only for smoothing the rifling / bore.... Deburring is a separate operation taken care of before lapping / polishing....
Bob
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Yeah, I just want to call attention to the term deburring as we are using it now versus the deburring used in the thread's title. Burrs are generally thought of as raised metal artifacts left over from metalwork that are large enough to be visible or perhaps felt. Suffice it to say the lands and grooves of a bore should never be in such a condition, which may be confusing to some who are reading the recent discussion and looking at the thread title. I agree with Bob's terminology of polishing or lapping to describe the treatment applied to the bore, and deburring to describe that applied to the barrel port and leade.
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Yup need to use a SNUG fitting patchs and a good rod that rotates within handle freely.
Also do 50-100 pass's followed up with semi-chrome polish and a good cleaning.
**Just what I do personally ...
Final treatment is running a patch with Paste wax up and down a 1/2 doz times, let bore with wax on it dry for an hour or so and then a couple dry patches to clear it.
Deadly accurate barrel after that. Also use Krytek treated pellets ;)
I got some Krytech, but I don't know how to use it. What is the process that you use to treat your pellets, and how many do you do at a time?
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Yup need to use a SNUG fitting patchs and a good rod that rotates within handle freely.
Also do 50-100 pass's followed up with semi-chrome polish and a good cleaning.
**Just what I do personally ...
Final treatment is running a patch with Paste wax up and down a 1/2 doz times, let bore with wax on it dry for an hour or so and then a couple dry patches to clear it.
Deadly accurate barrel after that. Also use Krytek treated pellets ;)
I got some Krytech, but I don't know how to use it. What is the process that you use to treat your pellets, and how many do you do at a time?
I like using the larger JSB tins with one foam pad on the bottom.
Place 6-10 drops of KRYTEK randomly on foam, Drop in 75-100 pellets, put lid on and then gyrate tin 10-15 seconds so pellets swish back & forth across foam pad. Dump out and do again applying more KRYTEK every 3-4 loads of pellets across the foam pad. Let them air dry an hour or so and put back into there tin.
YOU ONLY WANT A FILM OF LUBE ON PELLETS EXTERIOR SURFACES ... Do Not apply directly to pellets !!
Any pooling in skirt area or drips will unbalance pellets and accuracy will be worse.
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Hope this question isn't too dumb, but: is this polishing process safe for brass barrels as well as steel? Would you make fewer passes, or skip this process altogether (for fear of damaging the softer brass)?
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I've recently been using a method recommended to my by SeanMP who laps barrels regularly.... I use the VFG cleaning pellets in the appropriate size, two of them screwed onto their brass adapter.... I got the one with 8-32 threads to fit my cleaning rod.... You put some oil on the pellets and add some JBs Bore Paste (coarse) and working from the breech polish the bore 100 strokes full length, but trying not to push the pellets all the way through the muzzle.... I add more Bore Paste about every 25 strokes.... Then I do 4 strokes an inch short of the muzzle, 4 more 2" short, 4 more 3" short of the muzzle, etc. so that the breech end gets a total of 200 strokes but the muzzle end only 100.... I then clean the bore with solvent and patches until all the bore paste has been removed and then repeat the entire process using new cleaning pellets and JB Bore Bright (fine).... followed by a thorough cleaning and one patch lightly oiled.... By the time I'm done, the bore is like a mirror, and the chamber and leade are completely smoothed up....
Once you have put at least 100 rounds through the barrel, polish using the same method, but 10-25 strokes, full length, with the fine Bore Bright only.... You are trying to remove excess lead, but leave the lead in the micro scratches in the bore.... You repeat this process until the groups no longer tighten up.... After that, the barrel seldom needs cleaning.... I've only just begun to use this method, but it certainly seems to make a difference.... Sean seems to get miraculous results, it's pretty neat when you see a barrel from a QB pass the "Feinwerkbau Test" where you can put a pellet in the hole in a paper target made by a 5-shot group at 10M and it doesn't fall out.... This is from my .224 cal Hayabusa....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Hayabusa%20PCP/IMG_3037_zps56d033f8.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Hayabusa%20PCP/IMG_3037_zps56d033f8.jpg.html)
That's a 41.5 gr. RN bullet sitting in the hole from a 5 shot group at 7 yards (all the distance I have indoors).... The gun shoots those at ~1030 fps, the same power as a .22LR target load.... The .22 Hornet barrel was prepared as above....
Bob
Bob - Your instructions were pretty clear, but I do not want to mess this up, so I'm going to ask anyway. When you say, "You repeat this process until the groups no longer tighten up", you are speaking about the 10-25 strokes with Bore Bright (fine), correct?