GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: dbs on April 08, 2021, 02:12:43 AM
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Love my Diana 65 but really tired of carrying it around. Is there such a thing as a lightweight springer with a match trigger? Not looking for power, just something pleasant to shoot.
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Dave,
Based on your problem statement, expect a lot of recommendations for the HW30S, or Beeman R7 (same thing). These shoot at 7 to 8 ft.lb. Usually very easy to shoot well (for a springer). With adjustable trigger.
Details from here: https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-air-rifle?m=1899 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-air-rifle?m=1899)
Max Velocity 700 fps (.177)
Overall Length 38.5"
Buttplate Rubber
Function Single-shot
Weight 6.1 lbs
Trigger Pull 1.25 lbs
Scopeable 11mm dovetail
Safety Automatic
Suggested for Plinking & target practice
Caliber .177" (4.5mm)
Loudness 3-Medium
Barrel Length 15.5"
Shot Capacity 1
Cocking Effort 18 lbs
Barrel Rifled
Front Sight Globe w/Aperture Inserts
Rear Sight Adjustable for windage & elevation
Trigger Two-stage adjustable
Action Break barrel
Powerplant Spring-piston
Body Type Rifle
Upgrades with sights
Cheaper and faster shipping from Europe. Note shipping cost.
Have it in three days: https://www.krale.shop/us/weihrauch-hw30-s/ (https://www.krale.shop/us/weihrauch-hw30-s/)
Currently out of stock at Pyramyd Air and Airguns of Arizona. AOA also has fancy walnut stock version:
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/weihrauch-hw30s-deluxe-air-rifle/ (https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/weihrauch-hw30s-deluxe-air-rifle/)
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/weihrauch-hw30s-air-rifle/ (https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/weihrauch-hw30s-air-rifle/)
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Toughest part is finding a light weight spring gun that will maintain accuracy. Part of a springer's accuracy is in its weight. The heavier ones often (but not always) shoot the straightest.
If you find a light weight springer whose trigger is not what you expect, either get into it and work it so it does meet expectation, or if you are not secure doing that, send it off to one of our expert tuners for the job.
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Part of a springer's accuracy is in its weight.
Or more exactly, power to weight ratio. A light, powerful springer will be harder to shoot well. A light low power springer (such the HW30/R7) is much easier to shoot.
Yes, the above springers are not powerful enough to shoot in wind beyond 25 yards, but then neither is the Diana model 65. Also, the OP stated that power was not a requirement. Now; if you consider that regulation 10 m target air rifles are not allowed to shoot over 600 FPS, then the HW 30 / R7 already has that beat by 100 FPS.
Weight is the stated problem; hence the move all the way in the other direction. Else, for optimal weight and balance, I would recommend the HW 50. But, out of the box, the HW 50 is much more jumpy and harder to shoot well than the HW30 / R7. So, a slightly detuned HW50 might be optimal, but that definitely requires intervention. Out of the box satisfaction is better...
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Dave,
I too have been on a similar quest. I settled on a Beeman R7. To get the velocity lower, i made a spacer and installed it between the seal and the piston. The spacer adds .5 inches of length to piston assembly. This shortens the piston travel by 1/2 inch and slightly shortens the the duration of piston travel. The main thing is that lower the terminal velocity of the piston and this lowers felt recoil. For me, it has been a win.
BobH.
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Hw30 or R7. At ten yards either of mine at 8 fpe (scoped) will shoot single round hole 5 shot groups. Sometimes ten shot groups. At 25 yards in calm conditions yards they'll shoot WELL under half inch 5 and sometimes 10 shot groups.
The rekord trigger is legendary. It's an engineering marvel. Most of mine are adjusted to break cleanly at 8ozs with still retaining its first stage. People have strong feelings about tuning them or not. I'll just say this I've shot mine untuned until the spring broke and it never gets as nice as a tuned gun. Btw it probably took ten thousand rounds to break the oe spring. The cool part is the gun is so nice and fun to shoot you'll rack up that many rounds quickly. Tuned they're even nicer.
Downside is power. At 8fpe it's basically a 30 yard gun. I'll shoot spinners and sparrows past 30 yards but not for serious groups or furred critters.
Being so easy to cock and shoot accurately I don't see how a spring gun could be better for basic backyard or short range fun.
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The econo model is a Crosman Optimus springer with a Charlie Tuna GRT trigger.
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Love my Diana 65 but really tired of carrying it around. Is there such a thing as a lightweight springer with a match trigger? Not looking for power, just something pleasant to shoot.
And then....if you aren't dead-set on a springer, you might consider one of the Daisy target shooters...753, 853, or 953...or a nice little refurb from CMP.
I have an R7 and a couple of HW30s, and they are fun fun fun....but I took my 953 out yesterday for the purpose of taking pics of the red dot sight to post, and spent a little time shooting. I had forgotten just how lovely that gun is to shoot!
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Thanks to all for the info and ideas. I'll grind on it for awhile and see if something pops up for sale. Dave
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Check this one - https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/)
Looks like the perfect match for you.
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HW30 outlived the competition….just not that many lite weight, good trigger, low powered springers lasted as long. Probably a real good reason for that;: HW got that one “right”….the market changed, not as much demand as there once was, HW outlasted the competition.
Did look at the PA blog….mostly I like the changes. Just a little stock change and that ball bearing detent
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An HW55 would fill the void well I do believe.
I like shooting mine much more than my FWB 300S.
It's got a better trigger and a better breech lockup than a 30S. Plus the piston is lightened and shoots smoother.
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Lite weight?
Loved the 55 MM...but light weight it was not. Do think the HW trigger was more refined on the HW55's (seemed that way to me when I was running 4 HW's), were concentrating on accuracy more than power....but a lite weight, they weren't (besides, a good one today costs an arm and half a leg).
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Lite weight?
Loved the 55 MM...but light weight it was not. Do think the HW trigger was more refined on the HW55's (seemed that way to me when I was running 4 HW's), were concentrating on accuracy more than power....but a lite weight, they weren't (besides, a good one today costs an arm and half a leg).
I was gonna ask because first, you have to even find a 55 and then, how crazy a price are they going for these days especially if it's in great shape and shootable on delivery.
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Did look at the PA blog….mostly I like the changes. Just a little stock change and that ball bearing detent
??
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Did look at the PA blog….mostly I like the changes. Just a little stock change and that ball bearing detent
??
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/04/hw-30s-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/04/hw-30s-part-1/)
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Did look at the PA blog….mostly I like the changes. Just a little stock change and that ball bearing detent
??
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/04/hw-30s-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/04/hw-30s-part-1/)
They've always had a ball bearing detent. Well at least every one I've heard of. In fact for decades it's been criticised as a design flaw. A few people blamed the design for lock up issues. I did a big write up/post here explaining the truth behind the lock up issues some people have. If you ever have a problem Google Hw30 lock up issues and look for my thread here. It's complete with diagrams and full explanations.
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Did look at the PA blog….mostly I like the changes. Just a little stock change and that ball bearing detent
??
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/04/hw-30s-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/04/hw-30s-part-1/)
One more example of the "godfather of airguns" not having his facts straight....... ::)
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Lite weight?
Loved the 55 MM...but light weight it was not. Do think the HW trigger was more refined on the HW55's (seemed that way to me when I was running 4 HW's), were concentrating on accuracy more than power....but a lite weight, they weren't (besides, a good one today costs an arm and half a leg).
Would you not expect a "match rifle" to be somewhat expensive?
Personally I can't consider a child's sized sporter with a weak ball bearing breech lockup to be a "match rifle".
For a "match rifle" I don't think a 7 something pound rifle is that heavy. But "light" and "heavy" are relative terms, and I'm not retiree age like most airgun nuts, so maybe my perspective is a little (or a lot) different. ;D
Anyway, don't go after a collector grade (are you gonna shoot it or sleep with it?) and things get more affordable.
My HW55T was under $500.
But then again, the OP wanted a lightweight springer with a "match grade" trigger, not a "match rifle" exactly. But then again, what's a "match grade" trigger exactly? I've heard it tossed around a lot, and even applied to some guns with pretty sorry triggers. So again, maybe a case of a relative term.
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Did look at the PA blog….mostly I like the changes. Just a little stock change and that ball bearing detent
??
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/04/hw-30s-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/04/hw-30s-part-1/)
One more example of the "godfather of airguns" not having his facts straight....... ::)
Exactly.
There are not really other light springers with a trigger like the HW30. Cheap, light with bad triggers seems too common.
If I could get a bigger heavier stock, I think it would be even more accurate than the crazy accurate it already is.
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Did look at the PA blog….mostly I like the changes. Just a little stock change and that ball bearing detent
??
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/04/hw-30s-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/04/hw-30s-part-1/)
One more example of the "godfather of airguns" not having his facts straight....... ::)
Exactly.
There are not really other light springers with a trigger like the HW30. Cheap, light with bad triggers seems too common.
If I could get a bigger heavier stock, I think it would be even more accurate than the crazy accurate it already is.
Get a laminate stock and put a scope on it.
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Oh yes, plenty of scopes.
I have not seen a laminate stock for sale. How much heavier are they?
I am more likely to add a HW50, tune it down some and set the 30 free of glass.
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I just got a tuned R7 from Mike at FD and couldn't be happier. Light - easy to shoot - and accurate. Might look at these $350 tuned and shipped.
http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/blog/?p=1636 (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/blog/?p=1636)
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If you ever have a problem Google Hw30 lock up issues and look for my thread here. It's complete with diagrams and full explanations.
Here:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=167205.msg155872571#msg155872571 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=167205.msg155872571#msg155872571)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=154603.msg155703722#msg155703722 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=154603.msg155703722#msg155703722)
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What about the HW35E ? Same great trigger but a hair more weight and better barrel lockup. I sold mine for some strange reason. Oh ya , I wanted an R9 for pesting.
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Based on the specs at Krale:
the HW35E weighs 3.8 kg or 8.36 lb
https://www.krale.shop/us/weihrauch-hw35e/ (https://www.krale.shop/us/weihrauch-hw35e/)
the HW30S weighs 2.5 kg or 5.5 lb
https://www.krale.shop/us/weihrauch-hw30-s/ (https://www.krale.shop/us/weihrauch-hw30-s/)
I suspect 2.86 lb increase in weight, and 5" greater length of the HW35 is going to be more than just barely noticeable.
Is the barrel latch on the HW35 really better than a properly functional wedge, as used on the HW95 for example? Or just another step in loading? Both wedges are closed by a spring. One of them just can't be forced open because there is no ramp on that side of the "chisel". I think that the double wedge is better at self-compensating for wear, VS the manually opening one...
That said, I do think the wedge of the HW50 is better than the HW30's ball, based purely on the contact area of the ball VS the wedge.
If the ball latch were a terrible idea in principle. Diana would not use it on their magnum springers.
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I can't comment on the Hw35 because I've never handled one. The guns just don't visually or technically appeal to me. For a 12fpe gun I prefer the looks and design of the Hw50. That's just my personal taste, many people here love the Hw35.
The Hw50 is an excellent all around air gun. This I can comment on because I have one in 177 and one in 22. If you wanted something a little more powerful than the Hw30 I highly recommend them. I will agree with Subs that the lock up is more authoritative on the Hw50 than the Hw30. That said the lock up on a 30 is more than adequate. The ball detent breaks and closes easier than the chisel type. No need to smack the barrel open or slam it closed. This adds to the other qualities that makes the Hw30 an almost effortless joy to shoot for hours. The 50 is an excellent gun, the 30 is no less excellent but is far easier to use for extended sessions.
I tell people who considering buying one of the two it's a easy decision if you mentally tie the model numbers to yardage.
Hw30 is good to 30 yards.
Hw50 is good to 50 yards.
If you're not shooting past 30 yards or large pests like raccoons you'll enjoy the 30 more. Well at least if you value ease of use and quietness more than power. You can still shoot a Hw30 past 30 yards but it doesn't have enough energy for reliable results or humane kills. I have a blast shooting my Hw30s out to 50 yards but it's strictly for fun stuff. Sometimes it's making that hail mary long shot that's the most fun.
Thank you Subs for finding the link to my lock up post.
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I'll throw this out there even though it's not exactly what you want. Flying Dragon has a bunch of Ruger Black Hawks, but they were all built to 800fps per Mike. If you live on the mainland (I do not), they are $60 shipped. But, I don't know what can be done to that trigger. Mike could do a lube and tune for extra, maybe trigger work? Just a thought. My price would be $90 because I live in Hawaii.