Piston rifle springs are MAX HAMMERED!In comparison valve spings or DIE springs are gently "cycled".Of course >10e6 cycles on valve/die springs and "maybe" 10e3 to 10e4 cycles on rifle springs.IMO NOT a design flaw. Simply taking FULL advantage of an ENERGY STORAGE DEVICE. Cost-wise a perfectly valid design choice.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277953420_Spring_Buzz_and_Failure_in_Spring_Piston_Airguns:-)
No recent and "scientific" data. I have a learning curve with a Diana 350 T06 .22 .. about 11 years and several ten of thousand rounds. Let's say that more than 90% are with the HN FTT. With springs breaking in a row, I asked Diana about the spring lifespan and the answer was .. between 3,000 and 4,000, with the advice to use 15.9 grains pellets. I tried a Titan 14 spring and it didn't fit .. 50 rounds, a lot of scratching and the FPS was the "same". Last years using the Vortek springs and they resist the double of OEM. More than "7,000" rounds without FPS dropping more than "10%" (HN FTT). Never tried an ARH.
Titan springs are designed to use all the available space in a gun. That is because large-diameter springs last much longer than small-diameter springs. It is business as usual with them that one needs to take out piston sleeves, piston weights etc., as well as use (extra-fat) custom guides, or troubles abrew. Titan springs aren't designed to increase the MV / ME. That an aftermarket spring on a magnum springer reaches OEM velocities is a feat of sorts, in fact. Most don't, as these guns are pretty maxed out off the factory.Titan springs last typically about 20 000 pellets without losing velocity. That is SIX TIMES longer than OEM Diana / Weihrauch springs on average stay alive. Many airgunners say springs and seals are consumables, no need to sweat their longevity, but I don't quite agree. Springs and seals cost real money, especially with S&H, but the biggest reason for me to seek out durable parts is that the mandatory break-in period after each spring / seal change is a time- and energy-consuming chore. 500+ pellets per gun per switch before any sighting in is to be done gets real old real fast, IME.Maccari didn't have 350 Mag springs available for many, many years (if he had had 'em, I would have bought one). Recently, he reintroduced them. With the earlier batch, I've seen accounts of a Maccari 350 Mag spring shooting strong for 20 000 shots. That equals Titan longevity, and is as good as it gets. Maccari springs are sold as drop-in fits, but aren't really so. The springs are usually a little too loose on the OEM guides (he can't take the chance that his spring was too tight for an OEM guide). While softer and sweeter typically than Titans, I find the Maccaris harder to make behave: a Maccari spring might shorten three inches from early break-in, and require extensive spacing, where a Titan at the same stage is all of 0.5mm shorter than when fresh. They are simply the most solid mainsprings available.
Quote from: Toxylon on March 09, 2024, 11:50:17 AMTitan springs are designed to use all the available space in a gun. That is because large-diameter springs last much longer than small-diameter springs. It is business as usual with them that one needs to take out piston sleeves, piston weights etc., as well as use (extra-fat) custom guides, or troubles abrew. Titan springs aren't designed to increase the MV / ME. That an aftermarket spring on a magnum springer reaches OEM velocities is a feat of sorts, in fact. Most don't, as these guns are pretty maxed out off the factory.Titan springs last typically about 20 000 pellets without losing velocity. That is SIX TIMES longer than OEM Diana / Weihrauch springs on average stay alive. Many airgunners say springs and seals are consumables, no need to sweat their longevity, but I don't quite agree. Springs and seals cost real money, especially with S&H, but the biggest reason for me to seek out durable parts is that the mandatory break-in period after each spring / seal change is a time- and energy-consuming chore. 500+ pellets per gun per switch before any sighting in is to be done gets real old real fast, IME.Maccari didn't have 350 Mag springs available for many, many years (if he had had 'em, I would have bought one). Recently, he reintroduced them. With the earlier batch, I've seen accounts of a Maccari 350 Mag spring shooting strong for 20 000 shots. That equals Titan longevity, and is as good as it gets. Maccari springs are sold as drop-in fits, but aren't really so. The springs are usually a little too loose on the OEM guides (he can't take the chance that his spring was too tight for an OEM guide). While softer and sweeter typically than Titans, I find the Maccaris harder to make behave: a Maccari spring might shorten three inches from early break-in, and require extensive spacing, where a Titan at the same stage is all of 0.5mm shorter than when fresh. They are simply the most solid mainsprings available. Interesting reply, here are a couple more personal comments.........."Many airgunners say springs and seals are consumables, no need to sweat their longevity, but I don't quite agree."X2 here! "That is SIX TIMES longer than OEM Diana / Weihrauch springs on average stay alive."Hummm.....after I bought a new Beeman R10 a couple decades ago I only got 3,000 shot life from the factory spring> I had bought the R10 Deluxe model which advertised a "1,000fps velocity" "biggest reason for me to seek out durable parts is that the mandatory break-in period after each spring / seal change is a time- and energy-consuming chore."X2 Needing to set up the gun after a spring change I got less than 4 months service from one vendors' spring so setting up my springer 3 times per season was too much of a hassle and expense for me! The standard R!) model however less ADVERTISED velocity of 880 fps. I don't know but I SUSPECT that the springs used in the Beeman R10 Deluxe were simply (tempered harder) to increase the ADVERTISED velocity. Anywhoo, I've read of several Beeman R10 owners that got less that 1,000 shots on the spring before breaking and ONE claimed his R10 Deluxe spring broke at only 300 shots."a Maccari spring might shorten three inches from early break-in"Yes, my new "unset" Maccari springs are longer than after setting..........Simply cocking the gun a couple times sets the spring. I read a thread where the writer said that scragging (compressing the spring "coil to coil" for several hours) before installation would somehow would increase the longevity with very little velocity loss. This made no sense to me so I did a (12 hour scragged spring test) and the scragged lost 30fps mv compared to the same model Maccari spring set only by cocking.Anywhoo, here is I pic I took after "spring setting" in 2017. As this pic shows, the spring was about 3 1/4" shorter than a new spring set by cocking and about 3 1/2" shorter after scragging.
Why did you leave the spring fully compressed 12 hrs? I only fully compress it once or twice for a few seconds. That spring might come back up with use.
It's funny how valve springs on a car can last 100's of thousands of miles yet we have to tinker with these spring guns frequently💩🤷♂️😬 Frankly I think a new rifle's mainspring having to be replaced after only 3,000 shots is a perfect example of failure by design.
Just for comparison, springs in a semi auto firearm will wear out about the same cycle duty.
Thank you Hector, I always look forward to your responses. I think the mainspring on my 350 gave up the ghost a little early, I may have 3,000 shots on the old spring but not much more, if the Vortek spring gives me double of what the factory spring did I'll be ok with that. Vortek offers a .135 wire diameter spring for the 350, but I thought it might be a little too much and cause damage to the rest of the rifle? I'm perfectly happy with the stock performance of the 350 and I'm not interested in making it more powerful, I just want it to perform as it was designed to. I've heard the Vortek PG4 kits cause galling in the cocking shoe area? I've seen a lot of people who have installed these kits on YouTube and various other forums including here and most seem quite pleased with the results. Is the galling an issue with all models or just certain ones? I was thinking of adding a PG4 H/O kit to my 1999 vintage model 34. I hope I didn't make some breach of etiquette by tagging the model 34 question to my post LOL! Thanks again👍