GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: USAFANG6799 on August 07, 2018, 03:29:30 PM
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pcp compressor 4500psi Oil Water diving Filter 300bar 30mpa L350mm*OD49mm*ID36mm
Anyone use one of these on their compressor?
Looks to have all the multi elements to do a good job to clean up the air before it gets pumped into a PCP or tank.
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pcp compressor 4500psi Oil Water diving Filter 300bar 30mpa L350mm*OD49mm*ID36mm
Anyone use one of these on their compressor?
Looks to have all the multi elements to do a good job to clean up the air before it gets pumped into a PCP or tank.
I've read a few posts from folks that use or plan to use it. I went a different way--a molecular sieve cartridge--because of my concern about being able to pack the cartridge tightly enough to be effective. I've also been told that my approach won't work, so we'll see.
Good luck and post your findings.
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I have that filter now with just the cotton pack. Seems to work well but I did get the pvc pipe and other stuff in the pic. I have just been too lazy to make it ::) Not sure if it is any better or not.
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I have that filter now with just the cotton pack. Seems to work well but I did get the pvc pipe and other stuff in the pic. I have just been too lazy to make it ::) Not sure if it is any better or not.
I also have the same filter with the just the cotton pack but will try it when my pump get in.
Instead of making one with the pvc pipe I thought I'd buy this unit.
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The individual elements in the column look to be pretty small, and to regenerate the molecular sieve/desiccant, you would have to unpack, and repack the whole thing. Not really too practical to unpack it, keeping all of the bits separate, and then repacking properly. The other option for that one would be to buy a new cartridge every tome it got saturated. That would be expensive!
My choice, if I had a compressor, would be to have a medium sized, cotton filled filter first in line, to catch droplets/mist, and then a larger filter, like the one above, with a full fill of molecular sieve, or activated alumina. The activated alumina has a slightly lower drying temperature.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCP-Air-Filter-Compressor-Oil-Water-Separator-High-Pressure-40Mpa-300bar-Pump/401572295715?hash=item5d7f92f423%3Ag%3Ax%7EwAAOSwj3BbWCK7&_sacat=0&_nkw=pcp+moisture+filter&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCP-Air-Filter-Compressor-Oil-Water-Separator-High-Pressure-40Mpa-300bar-Pump/401572295715?hash=item5d7f92f423%3Ag%3Ax%7EwAAOSwj3BbWCK7&_sacat=0&_nkw=pcp+moisture+filter&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Desiccant-Activated-Alumina-Grade-A-1-8-in-2-5-MM-Scuba-Filtration-8-Oz/222989422912?hash=item33eb349140%3Ag%3ApoAAAOSwrCZbBXhh&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=activated+alumina&_from=R40&rt=nc (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Desiccant-Activated-Alumina-Grade-A-1-8-in-2-5-MM-Scuba-Filtration-8-Oz/222989422912?hash=item33eb349140%3Ag%3ApoAAAOSwrCZbBXhh&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=activated+alumina&_from=R40&rt=nc)
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I have that exact filter on order and is scheduled for delivery today the 9th
I'll see how it works and may decide to remove the charcoal to make more room for either the desiccant or molecular sieve
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I have that exact filter on order and is scheduled for delivery today the 9th
I'll see how it works and may decide to remove the charcoal to make more room for either the desiccant or molecular sieve
Good idea with removing the charcoal since the PCP doesn't care what the air smells like ;D
My choice, if I had a compressor, would be to have a medium sized, cotton filled filter first in line, to catch droplets/mist, and then a larger filter, like the one above, with a full fill of molecular sieve, or activated alumina. The activated alumina has a slightly lower drying temperature.
Now that sounds like an ideal setup for PCP use!
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Finally got a few minutes in the shop to modify a gold housing to work with a cartridge molecular sieve filter. I bored a 1.180" hole 0.75" deep in one of the end caps, and cut one of the tampons to 2.25" long to press against the filter element. Not sure how it will work, but seems it will be better than the tampons alone.
My plan is to use a mechanical separator as a first stage with a check valve on the inlet so I can vent the compressor while keeping the moisture separators pressurized. The gold filter housing with the molecular sieve will be the second stage, and I'll add a PMV on the outlet, again to keep the moisture separators pressurized. I'm using a Lawrence Factor filter from Filter Techs.
Contents: 13x
Dimensions: 1.16" OD x 8.75" L
Micron Rating: 20u particles
https://www.filtertechs.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=394&osCsid=nn8hf52biqel71atolqi3h1030 (https://www.filtertechs.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=394&osCsid=nn8hf52biqel71atolqi3h1030)
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pcp compressor 4500psi Oil Water diving Filter 300bar 30mpa L350mm*OD49mm*ID36mm
Anyone use one of these on their compressor?
Looks to have all the multi elements to do a good job to clean up the air before it gets pumped into a PCP or tank.
I bought one of the Tuxing filters with the factory filter and am impressed with it and recommend it to anyone looking for a reasonably priced filter that can be recharged. The cartridge will not retrofit existing Xin Yong Shi or Tuxing filters that come with the cotton tampon filter elements. The cartridge filter has cavities machined into each end cap which the older models don't have. At this point Tuxing factory doesn't sell cartridges separately even if they did fit. I agree that the Tuxing cartridge wastes space with the clear silica. I found that their clear silica doesn't even change color when moistened so what's the point? It is easy to disassemble and repack their cartridge if you have extra desiccant. I removed the clear beads and refilled my cartridge with 13x zeolite seeded with blue silica beads. If you're not filling a dive tank to breathe the air or use a compressor that doesn't put out oil mist you can omit the charcoal and add more desiccant to the cartridge in its place.
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pcp compressor 4500psi Oil Water diving Filter 300bar 30mpa L350mm*OD49mm*ID36mm
Anyone use one of these on their compressor?
Looks to have all the multi elements to do a good job to clean up the air before it gets pumped into a PCP or tank.
I bought one of the Tuxing filters with the factory filter and am impressed with it and recommend it to anyone looking for a reasonably priced filter that can be recharged. The cartridge will not retrofit existing Xin Yong Shi or Tuxing filters that come with the cotton tampon filter elements. The cartridge filter has cavities machined into each end cap which the older models don't have. At this point Tuxing factory doesn't sell cartridges separately even if they did fit. I agree that the Tuxing cartridge wastes space with the clear silica. I found that their clear silica doesn't even change color when moistened so what's the point? It is easy to disassemble and repack their cartridge if you have extra desiccant. I removed the clear beads and refilled my cartridge with 13x zeolite seeded with blue silica beads. If you're not filling a dive tank to breathe the air or use a compressor that doesn't put out oil mist you can omit the charcoal and add more desiccant to the cartridge in its place.
Humdinger,
Can you post some pictures? How does the cartridge seal (or does it)? How does the 13x get compressed?
Thanks,
Evan
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@ ACHiPo my housing is getting your modification tomorrow. I already have a filter from Filter Techs
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Evan, here is a photo of the factory Tuxing filter without the factory clear silica. It takes some effort and dexterity to remove the tightly fitted cotton spacers but it isn't all that hard to do. To be honest with you, I make a cartridge for owners of pre-existing Gold filters and it holds much more desiccant and doesn't waste space inside the housing with thick plastic walls like the factory filter does. I'd rather have the older style and use my own cartridge after comparing the two. Mine is easier to repack than the factory cartridge and will last longer between replacement cycles.
I included a photo showing my repacked factory filter cartridge and my own Humdinger filter cartridge for comparison. Anyone with an existing Gold filter that has the flat interior end caps can get my filters and have a longer lasting filter without buying the new Tuxing or drilling out end caps to fit a smaller capacity aftermarket cartridge that costs more and is not rechargeable like mine is. Here's a link:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=147547.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=147547.0)
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Thanks for posting. That makes it much easier to understand the configuration. It looks like a pretty solid design if you can compress the 13X media enough.
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Thanks for posting. That makes it much easier to understand the configuration. It looks like a pretty solid design if you can compress the 13X media enough.
Evan,
The air channeling warning is creative marketing so people will opt for pricier filtration systems. The filter I build is more densely packed than the Tuxing factory cartridge and is as tightly packed as any commerically made cartridge. If you think of air compression logically the air channeling claim holds no water, no pun intended. Slightly moist air passing through a filter is a gas with water molecules present. The tiny entrance and exit holes in a filter housing combined with high compression and restricted air flow results in a significant dwell time in a gold filter cartridge. Channeling is a real problem in the tiny chamber sized filters that come on the end of the fill hoses on the $300 and under class of compressors. They have small desiccant capacity and a short dwell time. But in a gold filter the beads in my cartridges are packed and offer as much contact area as any dive compressor cartridge. It is impossible for moisture under extreme pressure to completely bypass all media packed in the filter without being adsorbed by Zeolite or silica. It isn't rocket science to pack beads in a filter cartridge. Anyone handling these cartridges will understand this. It isn't spongy or loosely packed. Air channeling is more likely with an improper sized PVC pipe hack that leave a visible 1/8" gap inside the gold filter housing. If PVC O rings actually seal without a leak the PVC will expand and crack due to the pressure differential. Whenever PVC isn't cracking unfiltered air is channeling around the PVC O-rings to equalize pressure.
Some people may ask then why don't the smaller diameter Filtertech and Tuxing factory filters crack since they don't fit the diameter of a filter housing? They are designed with O ring sealing systems that force the air through one end of the filter and then allow the filtered air to equalize the dead space inside as it exits the other end of the housing. The Tuxing factory filter has a cavity drilled inside one end cap that holds a fitted extension sealed by 2 o rings. The dried air exits the cartridge and exits the rubber gasket on the exit side. It contains cutouts for compressed air to equalize the pressure inside the housing. The only shortcoming of Tuxing cartridges is that the thick plastic walls and smaller diameter of the cartridge means less desiccant capacity therefore faster replacement cycles than a desiccant cartridge which fills the entire filter interior.
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The purported channeling issue never made sense to me. The issues that I foresee happening with loose media are less media per volume and increased friction between beads. The friction will create dust and that is not good to get into guns etc.
You also don't want too much packing force as to crush media. Also a packing method that applies some tension to the media so that as the media settles it cannot move back to it's previous space.
A pretty effective solution I have seen is implemented in a drierite filter I own. There is a felt pad then a perforated stainless steel plate and then a coil spring that keeps tension on the media. I have attached a picture of the setup.
Thanks,
Taso
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drierite filter
Is it designed to fit in the gold filter housing?
The site doesn't say if it will work in a HPA (3k-4k psi)
$122 rather expensive unless your using it for a lab environment.
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drierite filter
Is it designed to fit in the gold filter housing?
The site doesn't say if it will work in a HPA (3k-4k psi)
$122 rather expensive unless your using it for a lab environment.
Matt,
I wasn't recommending the entire filter. Only they way they used to keep tension on the media with the spring.
That filter and media is for a different purpose.
Thanks,
Taso
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The purported channeling issue never made sense to me. The issues that I foresee happening with loose media are less media per volume and increased friction between beads. The friction will create dust and that is not good to get into guns etc.
You also don't want too much packing force as to crush media. Also a packing method that applies some tension to the media so that as the media settles it cannot move back to it's previous space.
A pretty effective solution I have seen is implemented in a drierite filter I own. There is a felt pad then a perforated stainless steel plate and then a coil spring that keeps tension on the media. I have attached a picture of the setup.
Thanks,
Taso
My Filter Tech L Filter cartridge has a similar set up with a spring that appears to be epoxied in place pressing against the media.
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Thanks for posting. That makes it much easier to understand the configuration. It looks like a pretty solid design if you can compress the 13X media enough.
Evan,
The bead compression issue is just creative marketing to direct people to invest in pricier filtration systems. The filter I make is more tightly packed than the Tuxing factory cartridge and is as tightly packed as commerical replacement cartridges. If you think of air compression logically, the air channeling myth holds no water, no pun intended. Slightly moist air passing through a filter is a gas with water molecules present. The tiny entrance and exit holes in a filter housing combined with the high compression and air flow results in a significant dwell time in a cartridge this large. Channeling is a real problem in the tiny chamber sized filters that come on the end of the fill hoses on the $300 and under class of compressors. They have small capacity and short dwell time in the filter. But in a gold filter, the beads in a cartridge are sufficient in quantity and volume that it is nearly impossible for moisture under extreme pressure to bypass all media packed in the filter the filter without being adsorbed and captured by Zeolite or silica. It isn't rocket science to compress beads in a filter cartridge. Hint: Dowel rod. Anyone handling my cartridge will realize this instantly. It isn't mushy or loosely packed. Regardless, air channeling is more likely to occur with an undersized cartridge such as the PVC pipe hack filters that leave a 1/8" gap inside the gold filter housing. If PVC O rings are truly sealing them the PVC will expand and crack due to the pressure differential from the compressed air inside the pipe compared to the unpressurized air in the dead space in the housing. The reason the pipes aren't cracking is that the O rings are leaking and lots of unfiltered air is channeling around the PVC.
Some people may ask then why don't the smaller diameter Filtertech and Tuxing factory filters crack since they don't fit the diameter of a filter housing?It's because they are designed with O ring sealing systems that force the air through one end of the filter and then allow the filtered air to equalize the dead space inside as it exits the other end of the housing. The Tuxing factory filter has a cavity drilled inside one end cap that holds a cartridge nipple air sealed with 2 o rings. The dried air exits the cartridge and cavities in the black rubber gasket on the exit side allows some exiting air to equalize the pressure inside the housing. The only shortcoming of Tuxing cartridges is that the thick plastic walls and smaller diameter of the cartridge means less desiccant capacity meaning faster replacement cycles than a cartridge that is sized with enough desiccant to fill the entire volume of the gold filter's interior.
Humdinger, you make a lot of sense!
Thanks,
Evan
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Matt,
I wasn't recommending the entire filter. Only they way they used to keep tension on the media with the spring.
That filter and media is for a different purpose.
Thanks,
Taso
Oh ok.
Thanks for the clarification.
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I have ordered the gold Tuxing from Aliexpress without all the media..just cotton. $69 delivered. Instead of the pvc molecular seive mod I'm using the activated alumina without a pvc pipe since its not corrosive. This will also allow for more AA to fit since PVC wont be there. Ordered AA on EBay..5 1/2 # for $18.95 delivered. That should last forever! Anyone have any issues with using the alumina over the MS?