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Author Topic: TX 200 installing "weaker" .125" replacement spring-YIKES-4 inches longer?  (Read 652 times))

Offline phoebeisis

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Maccari-spelled wrong probably-has a "weaker than stock" spring on sale$20 I think

I bought it with the SS  front stock attachment bracket-also on sale-maybe $25(I can never resist a bargain)

I just too the stock spring out-it is at least 4-5 inches shorter(they set THAT MUCH?)- should have measured it-but I didn't

Well tried to install new "weaker spring"

WEAKER THAN WHAT?? I put most of my 170 lbs on the top of the action-I don't think it compressed 1 "

Now maybe I just put 70 lbs on-but is the spring rate THAT HIGH 70LBS/INCH- or more

There was some mention of presetting-tried to half @@@ that with a heavy cardboard tube and a long gluing clamp-only compressed about 1.5 "-and it did not actually seem to shorten AT ALL

after 24 hrs.

So how-what tool-do I need to install this spring?

And should a "weaker" spring be THAT LONG AND THAT STOUT?

I think the add said it was .125" and maybe 30 coils-did not count or measure

I might just stick with the stock spring-works fine-new-just chalk it up to "learned another lesson" LEAVE STUFF STOCK(cars  motorcycles  guns etc)
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Offline Chris USA

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Sounds like you got a wrong spring. I had a TX200 in .22 and did a weaker spring and then a stronger spring. All done by hand with no special tools.
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Offline Motorhead

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Most TX spring combos generally "Pre-load" less than an inch.  Granted thinner wire springs are common to setup having more preload, but + 4 inches certainly sounds like a wrong spring ???
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Offline Roadworthy

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Start by counting the number of coils on the new spring.  There should be about the same number as on the original spring.  If you have too many coils the spring may be too long and not fit into the gun.  Springs can be cut and shortened.  When I set a spring I slip it onto a piece of all thread as close to the inner spring diameter as I can manage.  A washer then a nut go on each end.  I tighten the nuts until the spring is fully compressed.  I then leave it that way for a couple hours - or maybe four.  The spring will probably be two inches shorter when I remove it.  I don't know what spring you bought.  I bought one from ARH, set it, and it went right into the gun with no problem.  The gun is right at twelve fpe.  Although I can install or remove a spring in my TX 200 without a spring compressor I ave found some advantage in using one.  It reduces my concern of cross threading that retaining bolt.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 09:50:49 PM by Roadworthy »
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Offline Chris USA

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Another thing, a spring that long might coil bind when cocking.
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Offline phoebeisis

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Thanks for all the replies.

I war WRONG! The spring is certainly the correct-weaker spring-Macarri(sic) meant to send.

I should have been clear-I was estimating the length difference-stupid-and I did the estimate-JUST AFTER I attempted to install it-pure 70 yo muscle and 172 abs-sitting

the action on the edge of a "piece of duct tape" protected/grippey surface" end table.

Actual measurements

Original                                          8 13/16"  long     .129-.130"  thick coils     29 coils-    .55 ID      .185" SPACE BETWEEN COILS out of gun-preload-didn't measure- 5/8"

Aftermarket weaker spring-macarri  11" long              .125" thick coils              30 coils   .55 ID         .265" between coils out of gun  preload-would be about  2 13/16 "

So I was waaaay off with the claim of 4" longer-I was sorta looking at the length of spring actually visible in gun-dumb-did not actually put them side by side-too obvious I guess

I gave it a try again my muscle and weight-got it to within 1/2 " of the stud lining up with its hole-not even close

I gave it a try with a long glueing clamp-painter's tape all over the place to protect pretty finish-I only have about 1  1/2" or threading on clamp-30" long so I could not muscle it into place

I think a clamp with 3" of threading would work-guessing that is how it is done by folks who know what they are doing-special tool-not actual glue clamp

Somewhere on Macarri's site they mention "PRESETTING"  springs which they would do-in past-for KIT buyers-not for "just the spring buyers"  cost just $3 to preset-when they did it

They seemed to say they quit doing it because the spring would be a "little' less than straight-and uninformed buyers would complain that their spring was "crooked"

Macarri did say it-pre-setting spring-made it easier to install-NO KIDDING

I might give that a try-putting spring in old fashioned barbell collar-putting barbell -with WEIGHTS-LOTS OF WEIGHTS-in on top-and letting it sit for week or so-upright

Sorry to be so wrong-never really spent much time actually working on air guns

I mostly confined my attention to making motorcycles cars NOISIER  and    THIRSTIER 

and bicycles lighter- and the usual home repairs-I hate plumbing-plumbers have my sympathy

Any ideas-better ideas on where to get or make a purpose built tool for installing springs-and  pre-setting them?

Thanks

Charlie

PS I have no idea why this pricey beautiful extremely accurate great triggered TX 200(.177) shoots its screws loose-when the more powerful  Diana 460(in .22) has no inclination
 
to do that-same story cheap chinese   under lever Chinese Phantom NP break barrel (.22)   Crosman 1322  1377 Daisy 880  (but pneumatic-so..no violent vibrations)

I re-assembled with BLUE-medium thread lock-after 70% isopropyl cleaning-did not have 90% ethyl  alcohol-safe bet it will shoot loose again-I "think" the trigger guard-does not perfectly

line up with stock-might be stressing it in some way- sorta does not drop straight in place
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Offline phoebeisis

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Sorry to run on-too late to modify above

AIR VENTURI makes  just such a spring compressor-and AIR GUN DEPOT sells it for $100+tax plus shipping I guess-so figure $125

now I would do it-getting a completely unexpected COVID 19 $600 payment-soon according to IRS letter??

Now this is not the $1400 payment that has not made its way through congress or to president Biden's desk-

This $600   COMPLETE SURPRISE- maybe it was one of President Trump's last actions-credit where credit due-

Anyway-this is supposed to work on any rail??

I am not so sure it will clamp on that sunken  shallow dovetail groove that the TX 200 has?

Here-maybe is a picture-or a link-maybe

Will this work on the TX 200 shallow dovetail-? Best guess of course?  It will be about $125-but "FOUND MONEY" so I will just be being a good USA-E-IN and stimulating the economy

Thanks

Charlie-sorry about the incorrect numbers- on original post-should have actually measured

« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 10:27:43 AM by phoebeisis »
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Offline phoebeisis

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I am trying to pre-set-  pre-compress-shrink the 11" macarria spring with a truly dangerous looking contraption

I have a very heavy 30"  cardboard tube-it was a  heavy duty shrink wrap  internal "roll"

I put a heavy washer-taped well gorilla tape-to the bottom

Put in  11"spring- and topped it  14 1'16" bar and with a 9 1/8" of bar-flush to bar inside-no compression-so 34  3/16" of spring and bars

The top bar has 135 lbs of weight plates pressing it down

It compresses about  2 10'16" -so spring rate must be about 50-60 lbs/inch-the 135 lbs-is slightly less than 90 degrees-it is leaning-a little-a few  degrees-not 10  degrees-but not 1 degree

It looks-and is dangerous-it is leaning against two old sears metal rolling chests-in the groove- in a room only I access-cats and dog never get in there-


It has compressed maybe 1/16" more in 20 hrs-

yes when I take it down-I will be more than ready to SPRING away-let that sucker fall-nothing it can hurt-old carpet with heavy 3/8" " aluminum sheet on top so solid surface

I expect to leave it for a week-I expect it to fail-to not compress that spring enough to make it remotely safe to muscle it into TX 200 without damaging me-gun etc

I will probably build a crude spring compressor-have some old harmonic balancer installer and jacks-so I can build a sturdier-but crude-installer for just some wood costs

I would buy that air venturi rail mounted installer-maybe $120 all total-but I don't really believe it will properly clamp in the TX 200's DINKY DOVETAIL sunken grooves

No where near as sturdy as the Diana 460 raised dovetail-hmmm  Brits  pretty stuff shoots great -but a little to cute with that dinky dovetail-their germanic cousins

have them beat-except the TX 200 is sooo pretty and trigger soooo good-guess I can forgive it anything-even shooting loose-arriving not really finished-cocking lever pin

8mm less than fully installed-cocking arm arrived cocked because of that

But SOOO PRETTY    SUCH A GOOD TRIGGER-
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Offline Roadworthy

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I gave basic spring setting instructions in my last post.  They were brief so you missed them.  To set a spring I begin with a piece of all thread close to the spring's inside diameter but small enough to be easily inserted.  I slip the all thread into the spring then add a washer on each end of the spring followed by a nut.  Tighten the nuts until all spring coils are touching (coil bound).  Leave it that way two to four hours.  Back the nuts off.  Your spring is now about two inches shorter and will be much easier to install.  A Groz gluing clamp will have the necessary length of jack screw.  Most others do not.  They run about $50.  I believe they are also called a sash clamp.  I recommend the 42" size just to be safe.  You can make your own spring compressor from a chunk of 2 X 4 and a cheap Harbor Freight C clamp and a few bolts.
https://www.grozusa.com/products/36-duo-reversible-bar-clamp-with-30-capacity
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Offline phoebeisis

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Thomas

Thanks a million.

My truly dangerous looking "compressing device" -145 lbs on it-has barely compresses it 2.5" -I will be lucky if it is 1/4" shorter when I remove the spring-

All thread-geez-why didn't I think of that-might have some laying around here somewhere

So fully compress it-wow-nothing like that now

Right about glueing clamp-mine have maybe 1.5" - too little

I will really have to be careful removing plates from my "compressing device" they are teetering up their-darned thing will want to fall toward me-at 70 yo-I think I can jump fast enough

since once it starts over  I will not try to save it

Thanks

Charlie
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Offline Jason_Garvin

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I have a real nice spring compressor for rifles, but the TX I just shoove them in with the rifle standing vertical, with the end plug in my padded bench.  You can shove a drift pin in if you need to take a break.  The all thread method works, and you need to collapse the spring to take a good set, coil bound.

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Offline phoebeisis

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Jason thanks for the tip-tips

I did try to muscle it in-I probably was still about 5/8" short will most of my 170 lbs on it-with it vertical-but I did not pin it as you suggest-to give me a rest

I might give that method a try again-with my 225 lb of son helping

But my guess is I will be doing the all thread-wiht 10mm diameter all threar rod-300 mm long-not to pricy on ebay-$8+ nuts+ washers

Oh my EXTREMELY dangerous method-putting 145 lbs of weight plates-compressing it for ONE FULL WEEK

Netted  1/8" yeah just .125" after a full week-

it was 11" now it is 10 7/8" ha,ha-

As you guys said-it needs to be coil bound-the 145 lbs only compressed it about 2"-and only netted 1/8" of "shortening" after a full week-not sure what installed cocked compression is

but it would be in the 2" range I think

HUGE ASIDE- these air rifles are pretty  efficient

-close to 18 ft lbs energy out    about 70 ft lbs cocking energy in

 18/70=.25= 25%-   pretty good efficiency for a simple device-

A Prius probably averages just 25% efficient-peak a bit under 40%  (what I read)

best turbo diesels claim 50%-peak(stuff I read)

Humans are said to be 5-20% efficient-

I will look up some firearms-but my guess is not anything like 25%- air rifles-lotta bang for the $$  in all respects

Thanks all

Charlie
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Offline gonzav

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I would have cut (hacksaw) the spring to one coil more than the original length and then collapse the coil (heat until red hot and clamp down using pliers) and lastly grind flat the end coil. The spring you bought is obviously the wrong length. Cutting, collapsing and grinding is the only other option you have to reduce the length required.
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Offline Yogi

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Do Roadworthy's way!  That is the way that ARH used to "set" their springs.
After you do that, please report back...
With OEM spring, is it a bear to cock for a 100 pellet shooting session at 170 lbs?  Eat your Wheaties! ;D ;D

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Offline nced

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Maccari-spelled wrong probably-has a "weaker than stock" spring on sale$20 I think

I bought it with the SS  front stock attachment bracket-also on sale-maybe $25(I can never resist a bargain)

I just too the stock spring out-it is at least 4-5 inches shorter(they set THAT MUCH?)- should have measured it-but I didn't

Well tried to install new "weaker spring"

WEAKER THAN WHAT?? I put most of my 170 lbs on the top of the action-I don't think it compressed 1 "

Now maybe I just put 70 lbs on-but is the spring rate THAT HIGH 70LBS/INCH- or more

There was some mention of presetting-tried to half @@@ that with a heavy cardboard tube and a long gluing clamp-only compressed about 1.5 "-and it did not actually seem to shorten AT ALL

after 24 hrs.

So how-what tool-do I need to install this spring?

And should a "weaker" spring be THAT LONG AND THAT STOUT?

I think the add said it was .125" and maybe 30 coils-did not count or measure

I might just stick with the stock spring-works fine-new-just chalk it up to "learned another lesson" LEAVE STUFF STOCK(cars  motorcycles  guns etc)
Not a "TX spring" however the Maccari E3650 spring I used would "set" about 3" shorter than before setting simply by cocking the gun............


I always use a "spring compressor" to install a new unset spring before setting. My "compressor" is simply a padded Groz sash clamp I bought online. Heavy construction with a long screw for a lot of spring preload if needed.........
https://www.amazon.com/Groz-39102-bar-Clamp-Length/dp/B01DAPPY20/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=Sash+Clamps&qid=1622832428&sr=8-11

 

As a side note, you can also pre-set a spring before installing with a rig like this.........

In the pic with 3 springs this rig was used to compress the spring to "coil bound" for 12 hours just to test out the drop in velocity.
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Offline phoebeisis

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Thanks for all the tips.

Sorry I initially said 4" too long-it was a HUGE exaggeration-actually  2 13/16 too long-more than I could muscle into place.

I have been "considering" all the plumbing I have to do

so I will get to home depot-will get ALLTHREAD rod nuts washers(probably have suitable washers) and will crush that sucker for several hours

I am really looking forward to having a weaker gun

not so much for cocking-the Diana 460  and the break barrel Crosman NP both harder to cock

but less power velocity will mean I can recycle more of the NOT LEAD(expensive) pellets I shoot.

The TX 200  177  is noisy powerful fast  so it severely damages most pellets

Even if a pellet is a little too distorted to bother using it in the TX 200- I will use it in the Crosman 1377-my accuracy is so poor another 1/2 off at 20 feet hardly matters(usually)

Oh my Diana 460  .22  is actually pretty indifferent to slightly deformed pellets- 30 foot hallway "range"  I shoot standing freehand-standard hold-not artillery-so that short distance

even significant distortion doesn't throw point of impact off too much

Yes I am CHEAP-don't hunt-so accuracy not as important-I shoot for fun...

Thanks for all the tips
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Offline phoebeisis

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I finally got to Home DEPOT  and did it Roadworthy's way

2 ft of 1/2 all thread two nuts 2 washers- $6 or so

It shortened exactly the 2" Roadworthy said it would

Started 10 7/8"   after 4 hours  8 7/8"- It was fully compressed   10 7/8" compressed to 3 7/8" all coils  fully stacked

I actually checked it at 2 hours  1 13/16" shorter-2 more hours down to exactly 2" shorter

It ended up at almost exactly the length 8 7/8 new  vs 8 13/16 original  as the OEM spring.

It is 30 coils  original spring 29 coils and they are .125 vs .129" thick

It is MUCH easier to cock-not that it was HARD to cock before-but it is easy to cock now-maybe too easy

No chronograph-but much quieter-much quieter

I shoot just lead free-zinc I guess-pellets 5.5 grains-I suspect more of them will be salvageable now-yeah I re-shoot pellets it they are "not too bad"

Not a great shot so 1/4 or more "off"at 30 feet-not too big a deal with my crummy eyes(mostly my wobble standing freehand shooting-not so much my bad eyes-not with the scope)

Thanks all

Charlie
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Offline phoebeisis

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This is what Roadworthy's $6 (Home Depot) spring compressor/setter  tool looks like

The spring was just under 11" on arrival(stock was 8 13/16 when removed)

4 hours of complete compression "set it" at  exactly  8 14/16  -roughly dead on stock length

It looks-because of angle-slightly over 4" compressed-but actually under 4" about  3 7/8" stacked

As I mentioned I checked it at 2 hours- 1 13/16 shorter- 2 more hours set it 3/16" more

Very easy-too easy maybe-to cock-much less noisy too -shoots just as well on my 30 foot range(hallway)

Oh it was very very easy to install-no tools-just 70 year old me-maybe slightly easier than stock

Maybe I will get a chronograph-any suggestions on a "cheap one" ?

Amazon has a Caldwell for $84.99-so with tax $93 (our sales tax is 9.25%)

Thanks all-especially Roadworthy=

Oh it looks less than fully stacked-maybe it spent the first 2 hrs like this-but fully stacked last 2 hours-

I wised up and oiled it -compressed much more easily-less "backlash"

« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 09:00:35 AM by phoebeisis »
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