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Author Topic: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion  (Read 13323 times))

Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #160 on: June 09, 2020, 06:22:37 AM »
Very nice job.. that’s a great looking stock and nice grain. Been following this thread as I would love to have a 257 traditional stocked rifle myself. Great thread!

Thank you. Now I need a new front rest bag with wider slot, any good ideas what to use in place of that stock bag? I know there's a wider bag available but I need to DIY something for the next weekend.
  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #161 on: January 24, 2021, 10:07:28 AM »
It was time for after season check for the gun. The gun did well past season scoring some first places in BR and it worked very well even in our silhouette shooting serie. For silhouette I need at least 150 fpe at the muzzle and more is better so it's different tunes for BR and silhouette. I took the gun apart and found nicked barrel/probe o-ring, split o-ring in the valve block and the depinger was in really poor shape.

depinger-mk2_zps0ba86aa8 by abbababbaccc, on Flickr

The depinger had four 6mm holes in that disc and it was held in place with a M4 nut in a thread bar. The nut had stripped it's threads and the disc was at the valve block. I made a new disc with four 8mm holes and used three nuts in the thread bar.

The gun had emptied itself and I suspected the valve seat which was damaged earlier. I made a new conical seat which allowed me to reduce the poppet diameter by 0.5mm. That doesn't sound much but it's 11% reduction in force keeping the valve shut.

I then started wondering about the tune of the gun. While it made decent power it was an air hog and it was clearly pushing air out of the barrel long after the bullet was gone. So I decided to see what would happen if I lightened up the hammer a bit.

The original hammer had extra weight "tophat" inside and the whole thing weighed 56 grams. Removing the tophat dropped the weight to 38 grams, a nice one third reduction. Following table shows what happened when I dropped the weight while keeping the same dual spring setup and tension then how it went when I swapped in a 2mm wire spring.

                   HeavyHammer max   LightHammer max   LightHammer SSS
bar/shot              14,5                           10                            8
max vel m/s      297                           291                           302
max vel fps      974,16                           954,48   ´              990,56
vel peak pressure  200                           190                           200
energy               151,6907243           145,6237145           156,841148

I was able to cut the air usage almost in half which also reduces the recoil quite a bit. The downside is that the trigger is heavier with the SSS setup. An alternative would be to use the old dual spring and just live with the recoil and air usage. The heavy hammer setup can also be downtuned to 920 fps which I like for BR by turning the adjuster out 4 turns, that also gives me 8 bar / shot ... I guess I need to play with this a bit more. Some stock modifications next.
  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline Hobbyman2007

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #162 on: January 24, 2021, 12:53:17 PM »
Nice tune Riku. I really need to take mine off the rack and shoot it. Seems like once I find a good tune and I’m happy with where it shoots . I’ll hang it up and move onto another rifle. There is a local farmer that needs to reduce the coyote population. I really should go visit him . I think I have the solution ........
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Offline Motorhead

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #163 on: January 24, 2021, 01:15:28 PM »
Excellent results.  See a similar trend where a Light hammer operating with the same spring energy driving it can SPEED UP the opening cycle and increase amplitude of the air driving out the projectile.  And being light can stop faster at max lift reversing direction faster chopping dwell w/o effecting power.
In the case shown actually gain a bit of power due to the higher amplitude of the pressure pulse happening before projectile gets going.

Good stuff !!

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Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #164 on: January 25, 2021, 05:09:04 AM »
This gun has 31" barrel, if it was shorter I think I would have seen increase in speed with lighter hammer. I also think that around 980-990 fps is the practical velocity limit for 72 grain bullets at 200 bar with this barrel length. I was able to hit 1030 fps when I overfilled to 210 bar so there's more to be had with higher pressure.
  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline mackeral5

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #165 on: January 29, 2021, 03:18:12 PM »
Awesome build.  Your results with the lighter hammer are in line with what I have seen in various guns. 

After following Scott's lead with light/ultralight hammers I have a simple approach to hammer strike.  Configure it as such you can build your desired energy levels with as fast moving of a hammer as you can comfortably cock.  Of course this is all part of a system which includes other variables such as valve throat and pressure, buy generally speaking I like very light, fast moving hammers. 

Cocking with one finger is of no value to me if it is accomplished with a heavier, slower moving hammer.

BTW, I saw similar numbers with a 27" barreled Bulldog .257 conversion.  It maxed out a little over 165fpe on 3000psi.   Bear in mind this powerplant does just over 300fpe in .357, porting is in the .300 range.  Have a 35" 25-20 blank in process, I hope to see similar numbers just without running so hard. 

I really like your depinger setup, thank you for sharing.
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Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #166 on: January 31, 2021, 07:23:42 AM »
Thanks Mike! I've played a bit more and increased the strike length some 3mm. The power was down a bit as the hammer got lighter but swapping the main spring from 1.5mm wire to 1.6mm brought the velocity back to 990 fps. The problem with heavy springs is not the cocking effort (sidelever is easy to cock anyway) but the trigger gets heavier as there's more force pushing against the sear. As this is a BR gun a good trigger is one of the must haves. I'm actually not sure whether the current trigger pull is too heavy or not. The problem is that I need two tunes for this gun, one that slings those 257420s at 980+ fps for silhouette and another for BR where about 920 fps is enough (seems to be sweetspot for accuracy). I could use different springs and hammer for that but the threads on the block are already worn out so I'd like to switch tunes by RVA only.
  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline mackeral5

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #167 on: January 31, 2021, 11:07:01 AM »
Thanks Mike! I've played a bit more and increased the strike length some 3mm. The power was down a bit as the hammer got lighter but swapping the main spring from 1.5mm wire to 1.6mm brought the velocity back to 990 fps. The problem with heavy springs is not the cocking effort (sidelever is easy to cock anyway) but the trigger gets heavier as there's more force pushing against the sear. As this is a BR gun a good trigger is one of the must haves. I'm actually not sure whether the current trigger pull is too heavy or not. The problem is that I need two tunes for this gun, one that slings those 257420s at 980+ fps for silhouette and another for BR where about 920 fps is enough (seems to be sweetspot for accuracy). I could use different springs and hammer for that but the threads on the block are already worn out so I'd like to switch tunes by RVA only.

I re-read this thread and realized I was somewhat blending your and Denis' build in one.  Now I have a better understanding of the 2 builds....

That silhouette stock is sweet, I bet that really allowed you to focus on other areas during the shot, just keeping the gun vertical is no longer a major effort I'm sure.

I know this would create a whole development project in itself, but I have seen balanced valves that behave very much like what you are asking for.  Big porting, unregulated.  Simply adjust the RVA to go up/down across say a 100fps range, while having good ES throughout that range of adjustment.  The valve Bob described in his final version of the simplified balanced valve can very much perform this manner.  I don't know if you recall when the original SS valves came out they delivered regulated-like strings in unregulated format. 

If you wanted to take it to the next level, this very well may be it----potentially with the added benefit of reducing hammer spring requirements having a positive impact on trigger pull. 

But I could also see the point of view where you have a good thing going with a proven, stable gun.  I would almost be scared to touch it, lol...


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Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #168 on: January 31, 2021, 11:21:20 AM »
Thanks Mike! I've played a bit more and increased the strike length some 3mm. The power was down a bit as the hammer got lighter but swapping the main spring from 1.5mm wire to 1.6mm brought the velocity back to 990 fps. The problem with heavy springs is not the cocking effort (sidelever is easy to cock anyway) but the trigger gets heavier as there's more force pushing against the sear. As this is a BR gun a good trigger is one of the must haves. I'm actually not sure whether the current trigger pull is too heavy or not. The problem is that I need two tunes for this gun, one that slings those 257420s at 980+ fps for silhouette and another for BR where about 920 fps is enough (seems to be sweetspot for accuracy). I could use different springs and hammer for that but the threads on the block are already worn out so I'd like to switch tunes by RVA only.

I re-read this thread and realized I was somewhat blending your and Denis' build in one.  Now I have a better understanding of the 2 builds....

That silhouette stock is sweet, I bet that really allowed you to focus on other areas during the shot, just keeping the gun vertical is no longer a major effort I'm sure.

I know this would create a whole development project in itself, but I have seen balanced valves that behave very much like what you are asking for.  Big porting, unregulated.  Simply adjust the RVA to go up/down across say a 100fps range, while having good ES throughout that range of adjustment.  The valve Bob described in his final version of the simplified balanced valve can very much perform this manner.  I don't know if you recall when the original SS valves came out they delivered regulated-like strings in unregulated format. 

If you wanted to take it to the next level, this very well may be it----potentially with the added benefit of reducing hammer spring requirements having a positive impact on trigger pull. 

But I could also see the point of view where you have a good thing going with a proven, stable gun.  I would almost be scared to touch it, lol...




I've been testing a balanced valve in my .45 Evanix and while it gave me nice reduction in opening force I could never make it seal properly. It always started a slow leak after few shots, from the "plunger" o-ring I would say. I eventually got frustrated and put together a normal valve that sealed immediately.

Now I have considered a balanced valve for this .257 as well but I came to a conclusion that it would not be good in this application. For BR I want as small fps variation as possible and with balanced valve the forces acting on the valve are reduced while friction is increased, thus the variations in friction come more pronounced and may decrease shot to shot consistency.

The stock is nice but I will add a but hook to it for standing position shooting. I have removable weight for it that I add for BR and remove for silhouette. I'm also considering whether a rear monopod would be useful, anyone tried one of those things for BR?
  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #169 on: February 01, 2021, 07:55:19 AM »
One more tune, a bit lightened up hammer with longer stroke and 1.6mm wire stiff 12mm diameter spring = 299m/s or 980fps. That same spring + 15mm spring around it made 10 fps more while having stiffer trigger. I'm actually out of bullets so that's it for now. Action is now bedded to stock so time to figure out the hook and buttplate.
  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #170 on: September 18, 2021, 09:52:19 AM »
It's been 3 years since I started this conversion and the gun is now producing pretty good results. The latest mod was a thimble for the transfer port which allows me to index the barrel. These 100M groups I shot today tell me it was a good modification (measurements ctc):

20210918_153330 by abbababbaccc, on Flickr
  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline rintafile

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #171 on: September 19, 2021, 05:02:04 AM »
Good shooting! 5 shot groups probably? There is one competition left although we shoot 13 shots and 10 best counts. But you probably noticed that on Sihry's page.  That gun gonna be hard to beat at 5x5 Bech rest competition's if everything goes well... But that range what we use has own tricks to spoil groups but you already knowing that.  ;D wind is tricky there.

Are you taking part on that last competition?
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Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #172 on: September 19, 2021, 07:11:10 AM »
Good shooting! 5 shot groups probably? There is one competition left although we shoot 13 shots and 10 best counts. But you probably noticed that on Sihry's page.  That gun gonna be hard to beat at 5x5 Bech rest competition's if everything goes well... But that range what we use has own tricks to spoil groups but you already knowing that.  ;D wind is tricky there.

Are you taking part on that last competition?

Yes, 5 shot groups at Iittala range, it was relatively calm there. The groups were actually better than what I shot with my Anschutz 54 and SK Standards. Those shown were the best groups, there were strange flyers occasionally so the gun is not all spot on yet - average groups size around an inch I'd say. My guess is that thimble and barrel are not 100% lined up which causes occasional slight damage to bullets when loading. I'll try to get to the last competition, I hope life doesn't get in the way.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 07:14:55 AM by rkr »
  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #173 on: September 20, 2021, 07:23:03 AM »
The thimble and the barrel were indeed misaligned, there were small lead shavings at the junction point. I made a new thimble version, I hope this will be the final one - bullets show no damage when loaded and pushed back.





  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline rintafile

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #174 on: September 21, 2021, 11:36:52 PM »
And now just give me that address where to send last competition's first price ?  :P
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Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #175 on: September 22, 2021, 04:53:57 AM »
And now just give me that address where to send last competition's first price ?  :P

You should have my address Teemu, but let's do the actual competition first - we are also shooting from standing position and that's not my forte ;D

One more mod, a longer trigger blade. Shaves off few ounces from the trigger pull which is quite horrible when compared to Anschutz match trigger:

« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 04:56:23 AM by rkr »
  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #176 on: September 24, 2021, 12:04:07 PM »
When you start tinkering it's hard to stop, a muzzle brake to reduce the gun movement on bench rests:

  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline MJP

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #177 on: September 24, 2021, 02:50:42 PM »
Putting that lathe to good use!
Have any regrets, other than the fact why didn't you buy it sooner?

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Offline rkr

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #178 on: September 24, 2021, 05:09:29 PM »
Putting that lathe to good use!
Have any regrets, other than the fact why didn't you buy it sooner?

Marko

You just put my thoughts to words, I should have bought a lathe years ago. I'm just at the beginning of the learning curve but making small parts is fun and a good way of learning things.
  • Finland
Huub Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177 - plinker/training gun
BSA Scorpion .25 - 100M BR gun at 60 fpe
BSA Scorpion .224 - 100M BR gun at 100 fpe
Evanix Blizzard .257/.357 - 150/230 fpe
Exanix Sniper X2 .357/.45 - 210/270 fpe silhouette gun
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ a couple of springers

Offline Hobbyman2007

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Re: Winchester/ blizzard .257 conversion
« Reply #179 on: September 26, 2021, 10:44:57 AM »
Great work Riku. I seldom shoot my converted .257 as I don’t shoot paper much these days but have been focusing on hunting. I’ll return to it one day and hope to make better power for heavier and better BC bullets. The most accurate I have right now is the 257338 bullet . I just need to push it faster and the way my rifle is set up right now , I’m tapped out at about 720fps. I’m gonna blame it on flow as I don’t have any other excuses.
  • Dowling,Ontario, Canada
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