GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining => Share Your Simple Home Projects (TRICKS-N-TIPS) => Topic started by: ezman604 on July 14, 2013, 12:06:12 AM
-
If your airgun is equipped with a shrouded barrel, remove the shroud before attempting the below procedure!!!
I've always wanted to try this but have only had my hands on 1 airgun in 4 years that could use a bending. But it was under warranty so I just took that one back and swapped it. This week I finally got a chance to try this procedure. Grab a cold one and sit back while I tell my story....with pictures of course. :)
I have a co-worker that was interested in an springer with iron sights. He did not plan on glassing it. As you know, the selection is getting thinner for a decently priced airgun that has iron sights. So when Scott listed the Ruger Blackhawk for $59, we jumped on them. I bought one for me and one for my buddy. When the box arrived I opened one rifle, checked it out and handed it to my co-worker. I said it looks great so take this one and I'll just take my chances that the other one is just as clean. After I got it home, I opened it, looked it over and immediately started shooting it. I posted in the China Gate the results. I do not generally shoot iron sights due to my progressive bi-focal glasses. It's just too difficult for me to focus on the front sight, rear sight and the target. But the TruGlo sites on this airgun sure made a believer out of me. My Ruger was a tack driver at 15 yards.
A couple of days later my buddy came to my office and asked if I had shot mine. I said yep, and VERY impressed with it. He said his was shooting 3" low and 2" left at 10 FEET even with the rear sight adjusted to it's max. So 10 or 20 yards it would be WAY off. I told him if he wanted, I'd swap with him. I've always wanted to try bending a barrel but would give him my tack driver and take my chances again. LOL
After doing an internet search of barrel bending, I found a 5 part series Tom Gaylord (The Pelletier) wrote in his blog about bending barrels. I printed the article and read the entire thing 3X.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2012/09/bending-airgun-barrels-part-5/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2012/09/bending-airgun-barrels-part-5/)
Tom shows a bending jig anyone can build on the cheap. I rounded up the pieces and slapped a jig together. I had to make a run to Lowe's to get a heavy duty 6" C-clamp but I had the scrap wood laying around that I screwed together. I first physically centered the rear sight and placed my 5-1/2" ductseal lined pellet trap in the corner of the shop about 10 yards away. I took 3 shots with CPUM 10.5gr to get a baseline of how much I would need to tweak the barrel.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2142)
It was indeed WAY low and left. I decided to start with the windage bend first. But here is a picture of the barrel/receiver assembly seperated from the stock in the jig.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2143)
Not knowing exactly how much bend to give, I went slowly. After making a bend I had to remount the metal to the stock to shoot and see what the bend accomplished.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2144)
Back in the jig and bend again.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2149)
Now I've gotten a feel for how much pressure to put on the barrel.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2145)
Now that the windage was very close, I rolled the barrel assembly in the jig for an elevation bend.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2146)
Then I put a fresh card in and shot a few to verify the process. I tweaked the windage and elevation only 3-4 clicks after making the series of bends. So there's a LOT of room for adjustment should different rounds require it.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2148)
Now once again, I'll say I'm not a iron site shooter. :)
I was shooting in a standing freehand position also. No form of rest or support. After making sure this process worked, I decided to do a bore cleaning and shoot different ammo to see what would happen. I tried Predator Polymag 8gr and Gamo Fire 7.8gr ammo. They all grouped well but were off the center but not by much. So I decided to shoot and stick with the CPUM 10.5gr rounds. Those would pack a better punch downrange.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2147)
After making sure this baby was stacking well, I decided to press my iron sight luck by placing a 10oz Dr Pepper bottle out at 25-27 yards. Still standing and shooting freehand I made the bottle dance with 3 consecutive shots. That moved it back a bit with each hit. On the third shot, the bottle spun to give me a view of only the bottom. Now at 27 or so yards, that's not a very big target with open sights. But I was able to nail it with one shot. So I believe I accomplished what I set out to and this procedure DOES work. Follow Tom's great instructions and set up the very simple jig and you can get good results too. Next step is to strap a glass on it and see how that lines up. But I might just keep this baby as my irons only shooter. It sure restored my confidence in my old eyes. :o
SAFE & Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
8)
-
Great write-up on straightening that Blackhawk barrel, Dave. That's one of the few refurb Blackhawks that I've heard of any problem with but you fixed it with a little research and personal attention. I bet you could get your $59 back pretty quickly with this thread!! LOL! Great shooting.
joe
-
OR.... you could do like we used to do in the old days... lay it in between two chairs and beat it with a club. :D ;D I think Gene still does it that way. ::) ::)
Nah... don't do it that way. Makes too many bends and dents. ::)
Great writeup Dave
CDT
-
Nice Work. And great shooting.
-
i would like to see the actual bending in bbl bending 101. How did you bend it? or did i miss that part... yup, i see that i did in fact miss that part.
-
Steve, did you look at Tom's write up?
He goes into it in more depth with more pictures but I'll take a couple more pictures and add them.
Basically you lay the barrel assembly in the jig. You need 2-3 wood blocks cut from a 2x4 in lengths of 1, 2 & 3" pieces. I put a 1" at the breech to cushion it. Then placed a 3" piece out as close to the tip of the barrel as possible. I wrapped a piece of cloth (Tom used a piece of leather cut from an old belt) wrapped around the barrel JUST ahead of the breech block. There is where you set the C-clamp. All bending is made at the breech block. And the barrel will be bent in the direction you want the pellet to go, it's that simple. I had to bend my barrel right and up.
Tom's description is better than mine but I'll add more photos later today.
-
thanks, i'm sorry. spoke too soon and tried to correct it. i had totally skipped over the link.
-
I took a few more pictures of the actual process.
Bend the barrel in the direction you need the pellet to go.
All bends are made by applying the pressure to the barrel at the breech block.
Have a wood wedge as far out on the muzzle as safely possible to get more for less work.
Use a piece of leather or thick cloth to protect the barrel from being scarred by the clamp.
Work slow and good luck!!!
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2158)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2153)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2157)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2152)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2156)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2155)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=2154)
Although airgun barrels are not hardeded and are a softer steel, you can overdo it if you're not careful. In that case, just roll the barrel over in the opposite direction and try a less aggressive bend. But you will have to put quite a bit of force on the clamp to get a bend. The barrel will spring back after you release it but take your time. Try it a little at a time to get a feel for it.
-
Thanks for the link/photos and write up.
If I ever need to do it I will know how
-
Great "how-to" Dave! I think we need to get this one into the library!
pv
-
Having gotten into a discussion about bending a barrel versus a droop compensating mount, I was curious about the scope rail after bending this barrel. So, my final test was to slap a scope on this Blackhawk to SEE exactly how the scope lined up. I was wondering if the bending actually made a droop adjusting mount or shims a requirement to get a scope on target.
Looking around the shop I snatched a not so expensive 3-9X32 glass off of a Powerline 1000. The mounts were already installed so all I did was clean the dovetail with alcohol and strapped the scope on. Eye relief was good so I set a target out at 26-27 yards and fired away. I was able to walk this scope in with just a few clicks. No compensating mount system or shims needed.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/ezman604/0721131140_zpse5db3d3d.jpg)
Call it luck or call it a VERY good writeup by Tom. Either way this Blackhawk, after bending the barrel, is a definite winner, with irons OR glass!!!!
-
Thanks for a great lesson. I've only bent a barrel once but all I used was a wooden block and a 5# hammer. It did the trick but of course I had no control on how much it was bending . If I ever do it again, I'll use your method.
-
I just throw the barrel in my milling round vise and lean it in the direction I need it to go in. I go too far and then bring it back to the desired position. That is pretty much the only way it will stay the way it is bent. The process needs to end with a barrel void of stress and not wanting to rebend to where it was. Especially a barrel breaker that usesthe barrel as a cocking arm.
Often you look through them (guns that don't hit where they look) and they are bent in the direction they shoot. In that case you may just be putting it back where it started out.
When guns get triggered off they shoot high. When someone manhandles them while cocking they often get bent down. The enormous leverage Springers have gives the ability for a moderately strong person to do a lot of unintended damage with that leverage. Coming hard against cocking stops and slamming barrels shut does a lot of springers in over time.
I've straightened so many barrels in my life it is silly. Comes with the territory. It was the first thing my Grandfather taught me when I was a child and I he threw a bent barrel at me almost every time I worked. It is how you get good at stuff.
Bending barrels into the sights is something spring gun makers have been doing for decades and is often the reason the guns won't work with a scope because they have been bent to work with a peep or irons.
Once you got it pointing where you want the users must be schooled so they don't change the POI relative to the POA.
TimmyMac1
-
I'm about to commence to bending on my .22 xs25. Assuming I have a centered scope, at what distance should I attempt to get the POA and POI to initially intersect? (~770fps .22 cal) Perhaps the better questions is, should I leave my POI a little low, and if so, by how much? I shoot in my basement a lot (9 yards), and that's where I'll be doing the bending. (but I hope to use the gun outdoors, in an all out war on squirrels, at some point in the future...) Thanks.
-
I've read that back in the day gunsmiths would heat and tap with a hammer barrels of dueling pistols to zero them. This rig you have shown might fix a couple of my old B3's and I've got a TF89 I bought at a pawn shop hits about an inch high with the rear sight all the way down
-
I'm about to commence to bending on my .22 xs25. Assuming I have a centered scope, at what distance should I attempt to get the POA and POI to initially intersect? (~770fps .22 cal) Perhaps the better questions is, should I leave my POI a little low, and if so, by how much? I shoot in my basement a lot (9 yards), and that's where I'll be doing the bending. (but I hope to use the gun outdoors, in an all out war on squirrels, at some point in the future...) Thanks.
For the work I did above, I shot at 10 yards. And after tweaking the barrel at 10 yards, it was still dead on at 26 or more yards. That was for this airgun and the ammo I used. Your results may vary and it also depends on the power of the airgun. But I'd say make your test range 10 yards. Worked for me. That is the longest range I have in my shop corner to corner.
-
A big Shout-Out of Thanks for this thread....
I was just able to straighten barrel on my Ruger air Magnum, Perfect now useing this jig and an 8 inch C-clamp [was plenty strong enough to handle cheater bar].
I am Very Pleased, bought this WITH the popular Upward bend from firing with barrel Cocked, was totally useless but is now as good as New...
Proud to be a Member Here, Dave
-
I did some figuring and playing with Chairgun (first time for me) and it would seem that .5-.33" low at 9 yards will likely come close to putting me on zero at 20 yards (a zero distance recommended by B.B. Pelletier/Tom Gaylord). Hope to give it a try here soon.
-
Built the jig today. 3' 4x4 nailed on the top edge of a 3' 2x6. I had plenty of 2x and 1x blocks from building a spring compressor awhile back and a big c-clamp all in the garage. It worked fine with my Bam B3 Ak. The gun has a AK/SKS type front sight. All the way left poi was 1" left of poa. (you all know, adjustable front sight you move opposite) I centered the front sight and I shot off my table at 21 meters (all the room I got). Poi was 3.5" left of poa. Removed the gun from the metal and wood stock. Conservative first bend to right, no change in poi, but the gun tried to roll sideway. Next bend I laid it on it's side with a folded shop towel under the receiver, 2" block under the end of the barrel. Extended the jig out over the edge of the back porch and bent down toward the 2x6, re-assembled the gun, poi 1" right of poa. Zeroed from there with the sights. Tomorrow a couple of re-built B3's. One with a Mini 14 Ranch rear sight.
-
Good deal. Glad to hear of it working for others!!!
-
It worked for me and my TR77 nitro. Mishap with a trigger install and surprise and just HOW hard the barrel will flip up caused it to slip out of my hand.
AT 20 yards I was several feet high. Used your technique though my bender was a little more crude looking and I am back on track.
thanks Dave
-
Did one of my old B3's Sunday morning. Had to do an elevation bend as well as a windage bend. The gun has an old Mini 14 rear sight. Afterward just had to adjust the sight a little left and half a turn down and poi was right on poa.
-
apologize for digging this thread up.
I try to follow this way to bend the barrel. The barrel did bend initial but after i unscrew the C - Clamp, the barrel bend back to its original position. Besides I leave it bend for 24hrs. Still helpless.
My target is 10m, elevation set level(flush). All my shots groups are about 7inches away from my target point.
I guess im having a serious Droop.
using iron sights no problem.
BTW, why is it so that the further the distance my groups start to open up?
Can anyone guide me on this.
-
As stated in the instructions (possibly Tom's write up) the barrel will bend but will also rebound when you take pressure off. You have to carefully put MORE pressure on it to bend even further if it does not correct any. And as your distance increases, your groups will most definitely expand if it's not on target at 10 yards. You have to get on target at 10 yards and work from there. If it is off a little at 10 yards, it will be off a LOT at 20 and even more at 30 yards.
Just add a block as I showed in my pictures to give it more of a bend. And leaving it in the jig for an amount of time will not help. It has to be bent not just put under pressure.
-
Dave is spot on. The barrel will rebound, so you must carefully go "past center", as it were. Time won't help...you'll be pushing up daisies before it would make the total difference.
-
Ok understood :D
I will have to find a bigger clamp, my present clamp knob has been deformed due to the force I add.
Will update once I success.
Can I add force in the center of the barrel instate of what you have shown. As I feel adding force in the centre makes is easy to bend compare to the end point of the barrel near the rear sight
-
It's best if you apply pressure to the area that is in error. A straight edge probably told you if there was an error in the barrel. I think that if it's just misalignment from the receiver, that the earlier in the barrel that you bend the barrel would be better, as it leaves you a straighter final travel for the pellet. It won't be a drastic bend, after all. Yeah, you'll need a decent C-clamp for this. The ones w/knobs are cool for glueing and stuff, but not for this job. You can get cheap ones...or perhaps borrow one.
-
You wrote the open sights were ok and you might have a droop problem. I've bent the barrel on several rifles. My Benjamin Titan GP's POI was about a foot below POA with all the scope's up adjustment used.
Rifle has no open sights. I bought a UTG scope elevation compensator mount from Pyramyd Air part # sku py-a-4191 $18.95. It fixed the problem easy fast and cheap.
Long story short, it tilts the front of the scope a hair down.
-
Great write up Dez . David
-
BINGO!!
Thanks so much for the great write up and the advices from Dave and the rest.
Manage to bend the barrel with success !!
Now manage to zero at 10m with about 5 clicks up from elevation flush. :D
-
Great info here, Thank you spiralgroove for point this out to me, I think this simple technique is gonna help me get my Crosman Optimus with a bad droopy barrel shooting like it should.
(http://quotespics.com/wp-content/quote-images/yeah-baby-yeah.jpg)
-
Wow! The very idea of going after my gun like that scares the s@#t out of me! Not the concept of correcting the obvious misalignment of my Optimus (it's WAY out of wack, both low AND to the right), but having never attempted such a thing. Having no 'feel' for the amount of force needed, I'm afraid I'd end with calling Crosman for a new barrel! Nevertheless, now that I see how it's done, I have no doubt that I'll make the attempt. Tinkering should be a recognized addiction! ;D
-
While waiting on my replacement scope to come in, I'm taking notes on scope centering barrel droop and now Im feeling ready to get to bending if needed. Thought, I had this gun setup only to find I'm back to the drawing board. What's that about addiction?
-
I just throw the barrel in my milling round vise and lean it in the direction I need it to go in.
Since I didn't have a secure way to clamp my barrel in my bench vise I used a simple U-bolt jig. I just kneel down and lean on the rifle to tweak the barrel.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c362/jojisan/image.jpg1_zpsc1r1nycd.jpg)
-
Hi Guys.
Having grown up in Africa and spending most of my free time in the bush hunting I have had to "make do with what is at hand", and in this case I bent a barrel without any tools by simply using a forked branch in a tree.... it worked a treat! LOL :D
-
Richard, that's the good old fashion way. With some of my old cheapo's I just bang the barrel on top of the porch or table I'm shooting off. Less trouble than getting out the old barrel bending jig and cheaper than a compensator mount.
-
Don't think I'll be asking either of you to work on mine.
LOL
-
;) ROFL
-
Jeez me either!!!!! David
-
I'm talking about a gun about to go in the parts bin or trash.
-
Well I joined this club back in December... actually Christmas morning to be exact! I had a new scope, 4 or 5 tins of new pellets to test out in my Hatsan 135 (.22) and the rest of the day to play... Cocking the gun ON THE FIRST SHOT the barrel slipped out of my hands and whammo! A beautifully bent barrel. :'( It's probably zero'd at 150 yards now...
I did throw together a jig on my workbench but could not force the barrel far enough past center to get it straight. (I was using the back side of my bench vice that extends out when you close the vice for pressure.) I probably went 3/8th of an inch past center and it really did not affect the barrel much. I'll try the c-clamp technique shown here and see how it goes...
Can anyone advise on how far past center I may need to go?
-
A little at a time. :)
Try 1/2". Test fire and see. Then try a bit more if needed. Or flip the battle over and go the other way if needed.
Just try small steps to SEE and get a feel for what it will take.
-
Roger that. Thank you Sir!
-
i would like to see the actual bending in bbl bending 101. How did you bend it? or did i miss that part... yup, i see that i did in fact miss that part.
I've been bending HW barrels for years to get the poi within 1/2" of the aim point at 30 yards with my optically zero'd scope. Here is the rig I use made from a couple pieces of 2x4 construction lumber and a modified 1/2" eye bolt with flat washers and nut...........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3452015/1449927197_236660486_BarrelTweakerTop.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=78974)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3452015/1449927194_277482989_BarrelTweakerSide.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=78973)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3452015/1449927654_2080720119_BarrelTweak.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=78987)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Adding snoop and windage is easy with a break barrel and for this I use my "barrel tweaking tree" on the back yard practice lane..........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3542015/1450711769_869623035_PracticeLane.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=81492)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3542015/1450711766_1522352787_BarrelBendCrotch.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=81491)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
-
Outstanding, thanks for sharing that Ed!
Update: Here's my jig:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1d2RH-3qlPo/VpcFStZig6I/AAAAAAAAyHc/f2JNiAip_uQ/s1200-Ic42/upload_-1.jpg)
I have not yet had a chance to put it back together again...
-
I posted a brief update here regarding how my Hatsan 135 is shooting after bending my barrel back:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=104942.msg998834#msg998834 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=104942.msg998834#msg998834)
-
This morning the one piece mount came with one of my Hammers scopes fit the wide scope groves on my Slavia 631. Mounted the Hammers, leveled it, then centered it and it hit about 2 feet low at 25 yards. Adjusted till the elevation knob hit the top and it still hit real low. Re-centered the cross hairs and went to the tree fork by the fence. Took three trips to the tree fork then the gun was hitting 2" high and about 4" left. Zeroed from there. It's a nail driver now.
-
It's just too difficult for me to focus on the front sight, rear sight and the target. But the TruGlo sites on this airgun sure made a believer out of me.
You are not actually supposed to focus on the front sight, rear sight and target at the same time. Focus on the front site. Everything else will take care of itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lMYzJpD4n8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lMYzJpD4n8)
-
It's just too difficult for me to focus on the front sight, rear sight and the target. But the TruGlo sites on this airgun sure made a believer out of me.
You are not actually supposed to focus on the front sight, rear sight and target at the same time. Focus on the front site. Everything else will take care of itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lMYzJpD4n8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lMYzJpD4n8)
;) ;) So that's what I've been doing wrong all these years ;D ;D
-
Have to try this on my b 26. It shoots really high, had to adjust way to much to hit where I want and the poi shifts alot.
-
my new b26-2 .22 shoots too low so I bent it up but went too far so now I must go the other way. A way to see your progress is to look down the barrel, in my case the exit hole is mostly obscured due to my bend.
-
Amazingly enough I was able to bend the barrel on my droopy Titan GP using this very same method. Trial and error got my poi close enough that my scopes vertical adjustment was in the upper range where it was able to remain consistently in target. Before this I had actually installed the scope upside down so that the correction for the barrel droop was tightening the erector tube spring, it worked ok albeit unconventional. Bending the barrel was definitely a better fix.
-
Wow, great information. Working on restoring a Diana 23. The barrel looked like a corkscrew and working with my bench vise and three points I have been able to true it up except for one last bend at the barrel block and was not sure how to tackle that in a vise. C clamp and jig will work perfectly.
FWIW - three points in a bench vise works great for very localized bends.
-
Wow, great information. Working on restoring a Diana 23. The barrel looked like a corkscrew and working with my bench vise and three points I have been able to true it up except for one last bend at the barrel block and was not sure how to tackle that in a vise. C clamp and jig will work perfectly.
FWIW - three points in a bench vise works great for very localized bends.
Don't you just love this stuff!