GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: cw308 on September 14, 2021, 11:36:18 PM
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After sighting my new HW95 I wanted to also add the Williams FP-AG-TK peep sight to make the sight picture clearer , l'm shooting with progressive lenses . It looks like the only way to use the peep I would have to remove the rear sight. The original sights work fine but would have liked all three . I would guess everyone using peep sights the rear sight is off.
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You mean remove the part that screws in to the tower or the sight itself? I have tried that but it didn’t work for me. I too wear progressive bifocals and really struggle to get a good sight picture unless the lighting is really good.
On my 95 I have gone back to the factory sights.
A target peep, like on my Daisy 853, puts the eye piece closer to my eye and solves the issue.
Using the Williams on my 30, I can get closer to the eye piece. Not so much on my 95.
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Yeah Chris the OE rear sights gotta go. I can't use Buckhorn sights indoors either. I need readers now and can only use some Buckhorn sights outdoors in perfect conditions. Have fun Thursday
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Well this is my own personal take on this.
First off, at 68 yrs. old, I wear soft contact lenses. Don't know my exact vision level, but at distance it's pretty much 20-20. I can read street signs two blocks away. I do need 1.5 power readers however such as for typing this on my laptop. Anything within about three feet of distance, I'll have my readers on. Beyond that distance, my vision is quite good, so I guess I should consider myself blessed in that regard.
However, with my Williams FP-AG, or any of my scopes, I do not need my readers. I can see perfectly and accurately through an FP-AG (0.05" aperture) using only my contact lenses. On a couple of my Weihrauch, I have an attached Seibert or Gehmann aperture which have a focusing lens. That helps as well (obviously).
Now one may think - why should I need readers to type on a laptop, but I can sight through an FP-AG 3" away? I don't know. I only know that I can utilize the tight aperture of the Williams, and aside from a very slight astigmatism, I can center the front sight and hit my target.
But let's get back to the subject of the peep and the original HW rear sight. If you're referring to the HW rear sight as the one mounted on the breech block, yeah, that has to go bye bye if using a peep, mounted on the scope receiver grooves.
DO NOT misplace that HW rear sight. Put it in a safe place where you will remember.
Use only one or the other. The rear peep on the scope mount grooves, or the OEM breech block Buckhorns.
You cannot employ all three.
Peeps sights provide the advantage of a longer sight radius and more accuracy within a long enough time to study the target, but the original breech mounted Bucks provide for faster target acquisition.
It's all about what you want to shoot, and how you want to shoot it.
Hope this helps.
:o
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Well this is my own personal take on this.
First off, at 68 yrs. old, I wear soft contact lenses. Don't know my exact vision level, but at distance it's pretty much 20-20. I can read street signs two blocks away. I do need 1.5 power readers however such as for typing this on my laptop. Anything within about three feet of distance, I'll have my readers on. Beyond that distance, my vision is quite good, so I guess I should consider myself blessed in that regard.
However, with my Williams FP-AG, or any of my scopes, I do not need my readers. I can see perfectly and accurately through an FP-AG (0.05" aperture) using only my contact lenses. On a couple of my Weihrauch, I have an attached Seibert or Gehmann aperture which have a focusing lens. That helps as well (obviously).
Now one may think - why should I need readers to type on a laptop, but I can sight through an FP-AG 3" away? I don't know. I only know that I can utilize the tight aperture of the Williams, and aside from a very slight astigmatism, I can center the front sight and hit my target.
But let's get back to the subject of the peep and the original HW rear sight. If you're referring to the HW rear sight as the one mounted on the breech block, yeah, that has to go bye bye if using a peep, mounted on the scope receiver grooves.
DO NOT misplace that HW rear sight. Put it in a safe place where you will remember.
Use only one or the other. The rear peep on the scope mount grooves, or the OEM breech block Buckhorns.
You cannot employ all three.
Peeps sights provide the advantage of a longer sight radius and more accuracy within a long enough time to study the target, but the original breech mounted Bucks provide for faster target acquisition.
It's all about what you want to shoot, and how you want to shoot it.
Hope this helps.
:o
Somes up my situation pretty well too.... ;)
-Y
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I totally misunderstood, didn’t realize you were asking if you need to remove the factory rear sight.
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: Struckat
I removed the rear sight completely , installed the Williams peep .Worked out fine , I set it 1/4" from the safety, I just snugged down the screws hopefully they will stay in place . Now it's up to me from here on.. What do you do to the rear sight post and screw holes? For now I just pot a strip of black electrical tape to stop &^^& from going in the holes.
Chris
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It may or may not be what your used to but give one or both of the front aperture sight inserts a try with the rear Williams or a real rear aperture in the future. You may find they shoot as well or better then with glass.
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: Struckat
I removed the rear sight completely , installed the Williams peep .Worked out fine , I set it 1/4" from the safety, I just snugged down the screws hopefully they will stay in place . Now it's up to me from here on.. What do you do to the rear sight post and screw holes? For now I just pot a strip of black electrical tape to stop &^^& from going in the holes.
Chris
I leave the holes empty. Nothing ever collected in there on me. People have various techniques to hide or plug the holes because they bother them. They used to bother me too. I never found an elegant solution and left them open until I found one. I'm so used to the open holes now I don't even see them anymore.
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I leave the holes empty. Nothing ever collected in there on me. People have various techniques to hide or plug the holes because they bother them. They used to bother me too. I never found an elegant solution and left them open until I found one. I'm so used to the open holes now I don't even see them anymore.
Ron I notice your new R9 has the sight cover plate in your picture.
I also have the plate on my R1 but use black plastic furniture plugs on my R9, R7 and HW50
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I went to Ace and bought four little plastic plugs that fit in the holes on both of my rifles.
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Ages ago, ARH (The original Robert Law owned ARH) offered brass grub screws to fill the sight holes. I have two ARH HW30 S-X's that have those brass screws installed. Beeman offered them up as well, but they are long out of production.
Very odd 5mm x 0.5mm pitch thread.
Those cover plates are EXTREMELY rare, so hang on to any of them that you may have!!
:D
(https://i.postimg.cc/2yDQQtjH/Weihrauch-sight-hole-screws.jpg)
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"What do you do to the rear sight post and screw holes?"
I've shot hunter class field target matches and squirrel hunted during times of rain so I simply used black RTV silicone rubber to plug the sight screw holes. Easy peasey and it rain proofs the previously open holes.........
Before........
HW95 rear sight screw holes showing the spline that was pressed into the breech block wherre water could enter and cause corrosion............
(https://i.imgur.com/igDoh9n.jpg)
After.........
Holes filled with silicone rubber, wiped flush, then allowed to cure. If I ever want/need to reinstall the screws the soft silicone rubber is easily removed from the holes..........
(https://i.imgur.com/dsCaIgX.jpg)
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Mmm, those are nice Dennis.
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Mmm, those are nice Dennis.
Yes, and tasty looking as well, neh?
CraigH ran me a few test versions of recreations of them. They are quite difficult to reproduce in an efficient manner, so those that I have on hand from the test run I am going to keep, out of total greediness and appreciation to CraigH.
However, I just thought I'd toss out the idea that if someone could produce them, the dim's are 5mm x 0.5mm pitch x 5mm length.
HTH
:D
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This is really frustrating as this issue has come up so many times.
Sight hole inserts.
Is there really no one out there who can machine these little screws?
I know I can't because I don't have the machinery, but surely (not Shirley) someone can do it?
???
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I leave the holes empty. Nothing ever collected in there on me. People have various techniques to hide or plug the holes because they bother them. They used to bother me too. I never found an elegant solution and left them open until I found one. I'm so used to the open holes now I don't even see them anymore.
Ron I notice your new R9 has the sight cover plate in your picture.
I also have the plate on my R1 but use black plastic furniture plugs on my R9, R7 and HW50
You caught me, Lol. Yeah the R9 is the only gun I own with a blanking plate. It was put on with the muzzle brake when it was bought new. I have no love for it but it's already there and it's listed on the original bill of sale. So it stays.
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I leave the holes empty. Nothing ever collected in there on me. People have various techniques to hide or plug the holes because they bother them. They used to bother me too. I never found an elegant solution and left them open until I found one. I'm so used to the open holes now I don't even see them anymore.
Ron I notice your new R9 has the sight cover plate in your picture.
I also have the plate on my R1 but use black plastic furniture plugs on my R9, R7 and HW50
You caught me, Lol. Yeah the R9 is the only gun I own with a blanking plate. It was put on with the muzzle brake when it was bought new. I have no love for it but it's already there and it's listed on the original bill of sale. So it stays.
As I said.
Keep it.
Learn to love it.
It is VERY rare.
If you really don't want it, send it to me.
I have one of those cover plates, but it is for a longer breech, of which gun I do not know fits to.
Here's an example of a cover plate on a rare Maccari stocked and tuned rifle. I'm still, after four years now, trying to buy this rifle from the owner.
;)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Wbwb5H8B/Macccari-HW30.jpg)
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Cslinger
I removed the rear sight, when looking at the rear sight I noticed you could change the shape of the cut out by rotating the sight plate , nice feature , even though I'm going with the peep. I also ordered the smaller target aperture .050 x 1/2" . I also put back the rear sight bace it does not interfere with the sight picture. The globe front sight doesn't come with inserts
I would have to order a different globe like on the HW95L, for now I'm fine with this one.
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Stinger
Could probably find a set screw .
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Stinger
Could probably find a set screw .
Stainless 5 x 0.5mm stainless screws are available at McMaster Carr at mcmaster.com/metric-machine-screws/thread-size~m5/thread-pitch~0-5-mm-1/length~10-mm/head-type~rounded/
If you don't mind the button head, the shortest (10mm) ones might work - or you could shorten them as needed. If you want to make extra sure the hole is weatherproof, a small o-ring around the screw and under the head could be used.
Longer screws could also be cut down into shorter sections, then have one end slotted to make grub screws. My "hand slotting" skills aren't strong, so I'd probably live with the protruding head.
-bes
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I order thermal strip labels from McMaster , I place the label on my 308 to monitor my barrel heat .Great company. I just reinstalled the base without the sight , reinstalled the post and screws , worked fine.
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Yup - we order all sorts of stuff from McMaster Carr. Not the cheapest, but they usually have what we need in stock and ready to ship. -bes
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Stinger
Could probably find a set screw .
Stainless 5 x 0.5mm stainless screws are available at McMaster Carr at mcmaster.com/metric-machine-screws/thread-size~m5/thread-pitch~0-5-mm-1/length~10-mm/head-type~rounded/
If you don't mind the button head, the shortest (10mm) ones might work - or you could shorten them as needed. If you want to make extra sure the hole is weatherproof, a small o-ring around the screw and under the head could be used.
Longer screws could also be cut down into shorter sections, then have one end slotted to make grub screws. My "hand slotting" skills aren't strong, so I'd probably live with the protruding head.
-bes
I personally don't like "bright bling" on my springers however I did find a M5 x 0.5mm tap and die set online and it was shipped and expect delivery this week. I plan to modify some "locally available" steel screws to use as inserts to replace my silicone rubber "plugs".
Another scheme will be to cut new M5 x 0.5mm threads on "normally available" M5 x .08mm set screws from a "big box store". The rear sight filler screws won't require a lot of strength so I'm thinking that adding a 0.05mm fine thread over an existing 0.08mm thread just might work.
For the unthreaded "sight locating dowel hole" I plan to simply machine a slip fit "flanged filler plug" and secure it with thread locker. If the filler needs to be removed later some heat on the head with a soldering iron will produce enough heat to break the bond. Here is a pic of the factory sights removed from my HW95.........
(https://i.imgur.com/ubn0oxT.jpg)
Anywhoo.....we'll see what happens. ::)
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nced
Your using this rifle with a scope , I just reinstalled the base , screws and post in place , works fine using a Williams peep , I never shot with a globe front sight , did it interfere with the scope . I like keeping things in place as long as it doesn't interfere with another sight system. Have a @$%^ load of bags listed with original , springs , pins , triggers and firing pins.
Chris
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NCED - I agree about the bling. You could turn plugs out of 6061-T6 or 7075-T5 rods, then have them anodized. I suppose you could also cold blue steel plugs. I've had more luck cutting coarse threads over fine threads than the other way around (smaller minor diameter), but prefer not to have to do either.
CW308 - The globe front won't be a problem when using a scope. This is one of the many (dumb to him, but not to me) questions I've asked a buddy who is an optical physicist and general optics guru. He explained that the front sight assembly (globe etc) is way too close for most scopes to focus on. Even scopes that can focus at ~5 meters aren't likely to "see" the globe. By 10 meters, you should be well in the clear.
He did say that the globe sight assembly would theoretically cause a slightly dimmer image (it blocks some light), but it is not enough to notice.
-bes
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nced
Your using this rifle with a scope , I just reinstalled the base , screws and post in place , works fine using a Williams peep , I never shot with a globe front sight , did it interfere with the scope . I like keeping things in place as long as it doesn't interfere with another sight system. Have a @$%^ load of bags listed with original , springs , pins , triggers and firing pins.
Chris
I've always used optics due to my eyesight but for my first break barrel I left the front sight attached. This worked ok with no "scope issues" however grabbing the end of the barrel when cocking did wear away the bluing on the barrel. Because of this I started fitting "muzzle breaks" on my break barrels to prevent wear on the finish..........
(https://i.imgur.com/gt4snQ6.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/7yMWtCC.jpg)
Here is a pic of the cocking lever on my HW77k showing a "patina" similar to the break barrel muzzle without a muzzle break...........
(https://i.imgur.com/57jMyfQ.jpg)
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No worries. CraigH made me several sets of the brass filler screws, but we both agreed that it was not worth the effort to custom make them.
Good luck finding any though. As I said, they are a 5mm x 0.5mm pitch thread.
:D
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Stinger
Could probably find a set screw .
Stainless 5 x 0.5mm stainless screws are available at McMaster Carr at mcmaster.com/metric-machine-screws/thread-size~m5/thread-pitch~0-5-mm-1/length~10-mm/head-type~rounded/
If you don't mind the button head, the shortest (10mm) ones might work - or you could shorten them as needed. If you want to make extra sure the hole is weatherproof, a small o-ring around the screw and under the head could be used.
Longer screws could also be cut down into shorter sections, then have one end slotted to make grub screws. My "hand slotting" skills aren't strong, so I'd probably live with the protruding head.
-bes
Before I asked CraigH to make my brass screws, I actually ordered some short 5mm x 0.5mm x 25mm screws from China. They're lying around here somewhere. I was going to cut them to length and slot them, but then Craig came up with his version.
:D
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My almost 75 year old eyes aren't doing so well either. New to the sport I also was thinking about always handling the barrel on the break barrels , thought of wearing a glove with the thumb and first finger cut off to protect the bluing , could be over thinking but I baby all my firearms. Have you ever used the pellet pen/seater?
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I sometimes use a pellet seater, but only on my best rifles and with the best pellets. I have yet to buy an actual "Pellet seater". A ballpoint pen works just as well.
As for handling, I don't wear gloves, but I ALWAYS wipe down my guns after shooting with either a cloth and Beeman MP-05 oil, or at least some sort of de-greaser and a wipe of some sort of oil.
Even a wipe-off with WD40 is better than leaving greasy, acidic finger prints on it, and though you may not see them immediately, they are there.
I'm like you. I baby all of my firearms.
It's sort of a ritual when putting them away for the day.
:D
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I use a home made Turkey call striker for my pellet seater. The H&N 5.53 FTT 14.66 pellets fit snug in my 95.
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I would think seating the pellets to the same depth would help in accuracy. The pellet pen would be good for hunters and Shakey hands . Haven't tried the pen yet , you can load up 20 .177 WC pellets in the pen ,pop one in the chamber at the other end of the pen is the seater , you can adjust to what ever seating depth you want. Seems pretty good to me, hope to try it out tomorrow.
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I sometimes use a pellet seater, but only on my best rifles and with the best pellets. I have yet to buy an actual "Pellet seater". A ballpoint pen works just as well.
As for handling, I don't wear gloves, but I ALWAYS wipe down my guns after shooting with either a cloth and Beeman MP-05 oil, or at least some sort of de-greaser and a wipe of some sort of oil.
Even a wipe-off with WD40 is better than leaving greasy, acidic finger prints on it, and though you may not see them immediately, they are there.
I'm like you. I baby all of my firearms.
It's sort of a ritual when putting them away for the day.
:D
I'm surprised that you don't shorten your ritual with a wipe down of Ballistol. It's an amazing product developed for the German army over a hundred years ago that's yet to be topped. It's safe to use for cleaning and preserving everything, steel, wood, and leather. Plastic too for the cheaper guns. It's non toxic and biodegradable. A single wipe down does it all. Also good for bore cleaning.
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Hi Ron
Ballistol is my favorite , it does it all . I do give my firearms a wipe down every time I finish shooting. I don't leave finger prints on my guns when I put them away . With these brake barrels you have to handle the barrel every time , I'm sure it will effect the bluing on the barrel but that's the nature of the best. Best I can do is give it a wipe down after shooting. Didn't get a chance to shoot Thursday , 8 grand kids puts a crimp in my shooting every once an awhile. Stay Well Ron.
Chris
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Hi Ron
Ballistol is my favorite , it does it all . I do give my firearms a wipe down every time I finish shooting. I don't leave finger prints on my guns when I put them away . With these brake barrels you have to handle the barrel every time , I'm sure it will effect the bluing on the barrel but that's the nature of the best. Best I can do is give it a wipe down after shooting. Didn't get a chance to shoot Thursday , 8 grand kids puts a crimp in my shooting every once an awhile. Stay Well Ron.
Chris
Don't sweat marring the bluing from handling the barrel. My first Hw30 has tens of thousands of rounds through it and the bluing is still fine. I wore the paint of the sight hood but that's it.
Hey did you get the front sight with the removable inserts on your gun?
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I would think seating the pellets to the same depth would help in accuracy. The pellet pen would be good for hunters and Shakey hands . Haven't tried the pen yet , you can load up 20 .177 WC pellets in the pen ,pop one in the chamber at the other end of the pen is the seater , you can adjust to what ever seating depth you want. Seems pretty good to me, hope to try it out tomorrow.
I could be over thinking this, but I have concerns about the possible effects of varied pellet depth. Since springers have a very limited volume of pressurized air, I worry that even fairly small amounts of extra volume behind the pellet could cause velocity loss.
It is entirely possible (likely even?) that this is essentially a non-issue, but it is something I've considered. If every pellet was seated (for example) precisely 0.100" (2.5mm) deep in the barrel, I would expect a slight velocity decrease. I'm not sure whether or not this would affect the StDev or Spread of the shot strings.
Has anyone played with this in the past? If not, I may make up a couple different seaters and run a few strings over the chrono to see if there are any measurable changes.
-bes
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The idea of seating pellets is not new. I use the Beeman Pell Seat sometimes.
Here is one of the items out there:
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/12/beeman-pell-seat-does-it-work/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/12/beeman-pell-seat-does-it-work/)
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I've tried seating pellets at various depths to not at all. Some pellets would shoot a little faster or slower but the accuracy never really changed. Typically the deaper it's seated the slower it went. It's similar to enlarging the transfer port. It enlarges the area between the pellet and the the piston, reducing the compression rate. Similar to enlarging the combustion chamber on an engine.
I made several depths of seating tools made of wood to protect the leede. I'll still take them out once in a while to diagnose a rifle but I ultimately always return to finger seating. YMMV
Ps the pellets that seem to improve performance the most are the really tight ones or the ones with inconsistent fit.
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First place I thought of was McMaster... no set screws in that pitch.
However I did find these M5X0.5 in a 6mm length. wouldn't have to take much off the length for them to set flush, if any.
https://www.belmetric.com/m5x05-fine-rare-c-6_342_1625_382_1948/ss5x05x6flat-set-screw-fine-black-p-14343.html?zenid=3renb5f4cjduemktrqbjscm8r4 (https://www.belmetric.com/m5x05-fine-rare-c-6_342_1625_382_1948/ss5x05x6flat-set-screw-fine-black-p-14343.html?zenid=3renb5f4cjduemktrqbjscm8r4)
What I find interesting is my R9 came with a front muzzle brake and no sights , not even holes for any... scope only.
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Ron
My 95 doesn't come with the inserts , what I misunderstood in the description of the HW95 was 4 different sight settings was a revolving plate on the rear sight giving you a different sight picture. The globe is fixed but it's fine for now . The HW95L comes with the inserts on the front globe. Shooting with the peep sight , what front post works better for you. Never shot with any of those fancy inserts. Have you ever been to the Mitchell Field range.?
Chris
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All Weihrauch’s to my knowledge come with the front globe inserts. It’s is a very small flat cardboard container usually tied to the trigger guard. Check your box it’s easy to miss if not tied to the trigger guard.
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My HW95L from AoA did NOT have iron sights & is scope only.
(https://i.imgur.com/xdtTXHUh.jpg)
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It's the HW95 Luxus not L sorry
Chris
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The std 95 comes with single blade globe sight. Not the kind that has interchangeable inserts.
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I like the pellet pens when I'm shooting groups, load however many I want to group in there (ie 11 or 12) then I can (intentionally) not count shots and I'm done with that group when the pen is empty. It makes absolute sense that seating the pellet to the same depth would increase accuracy, but I haven't been able to prove it. Some of the best groups I've shot were thumb seated.
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Ron
My 95 doesn't come with the inserts , what I misunderstood in the description of the HW95 was 4 different sight settings was a revolving plate on the rear sight giving you a different sight picture. The globe is fixed but it's fine for now . The HW95L comes with the inserts on the front globe. Shooting with the peep sight , what front post works better for you. Never shot with any of those fancy inserts. Have you ever been to the Mitchell Field range.?
Chris
I prefer the sight that came on your gun. Many people that shoot circular targets prefer the front sight with the circular aperture inserts. The base 95 usually comes with the fixed globe. I have plenty of the other style if you want to try it out. I have shot at Mitchell field dozens of times. I belong to the Freeport club and prefer it. I prefer Brookhaven to Freeport but it's a hike for me.
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Haven't been to Brookhaven in over a year , most of my shooting is at Midnight except for the day's my neighbors aren't around then I set up on my deck and use my home made trap in the back yard at 20 yards , only air rifle of course. I dshould have the .050 target peep. ,