GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: TerryM on September 13, 2021, 10:10:07 AM
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Was looking at it in a local pawn shop a couple of days ago. It had (originally) the older, straight bolt handle which is missing. Pump linkage is in pieces and pretty much worn out. Hole in tube for the pivot pin might be seriously wallowed out. I'm going to take a closer look at it today, see if it cocks and try to get a look down the bore. Might bring it home if I can talk them down a few bucks. If so, it will be the most extensive restoration I have attempted so far... will never be a collectors piece but I'd like to see if I can make it a shooter again.
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Good luck on the deal $. Not many would be willing to take on the challenge. If you pick it up promise to take a lot of before photos. I'd like to find a decent basket case too.
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Was looking at it in a local pawn shop a couple of days ago. It had (originally) the older, straight bolt handle which is missing. Pump linkage is in pieces and pretty much worn out. Hole in tube for the pivot pin might be seriously wallowed out. I'm going to take a closer look at it today, see if it cocks and try to get a look down the bore. Might bring it home if I can talk them down a few bucks. If so, it will be the most extensive restoration I have attempted so far... will never be a collectors piece but I'd like to see if I can make it a shooter again.
If you can make inserts for the wallowed pump pivot-points the gun can probably be saved. It's sorta heart-rending to see a gun like that...
I passed on a '72 Crosman 760 a week or so ago because it was just too far gone. Someone had even managed to break off the pump lever near the pivot. How does that even happen?
Good luck,
J~
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Well, here it is. It was priced at 70 bucks, I got it for 55. To much probably, but, I wanted a project so it looks like I got one. Aside from the aforementioned issues, the gun is in pretty decent shape. None of the screw heads are bunged up. The piston was actually compressing air when pushed into the tube. Cup is a different type than I've seen. I have linkage from an 80s vintage 342 I parted out a while back, I think it will fit right in.
(https://i.imgur.com/NX5YgXe.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/UgXV5cI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EoKTARr.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/p5JseVf.jpg)
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It looks like a lot of fun. That's not a bad deal for that rifle. Sure, cheaper is always better but you won't be upside down on value when it's done. Good find.
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Well worth $55 for that gun.
If you loose interest you can always part it out for a lot more than that.
You can get $20 just for that safety lever.
I modded a few 317s, a 312 and a 342 awhile back.
Fun guns to work on.
I thought about making one into a PCP.
Need to find a good donor.
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A quick and ugly , temporary "fix". A machine screw for a bolt handle. (Seems vaguely familiar, somehow...) The 342 linkage fit perfectly, practically jumped in there by itself. I peened the brass around the pivot pin holes just a bit, had a new pin on hand. Cleaned the rear tube and hammer, front tube and piston, reinstalled with the old pump seal. Amazingly, the gun pumps up and shoots. Not like it ought to, but it shoots. A little past 500 fps with RWS Basic 7gr and 5 pumps. Leaks down if not shot right away. I'll give it a thorough cleaning and a proper reseal soon. I'll have to thread some holes for the old pump handle, which goes on with screws. I have to say, this gun isn't really the basket-case I thought it was.
(https://i.imgur.com/tZXVYUF.jpg)
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Is that pump cup synthetic or leather?
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I described it to Rick Willnecker this afternoon and he informed me it is leather. So this is likely a pre-1950 gun. I plan to replace the piston with one from the same 342 that the linkage came from. I just finished mating the old Tootsie Roll pump handle with the replacement linkage, funny how the pin/screw holes lined up perfectly. It's coming together...
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I described it to Rick Willnecker this afternoon and he informed me it is leather. So this is likely a pre-1950 gun. I plan to replace the piston with one from the same 342 that the linkage came from. I just finished mating the old Tootsie Roll pump handle with the replacement linkage, funny how the pin/screw holes lined up perfectly. It's coming together...
The little bullseye style head on the safety, the threaded bolt handle, and the fixed rear sight are a good indicator of it's age.
I'm not an expert but what you were told sounds about right.
30's would not surprise me.
Btw I say you got a good deal, and it's really not a basket case at all.
You should see the vintage Benjamin my uncle got a while back.
A plumbing client begged him to take some of the pile of old guns he was trying to get rid of, and for $50 he ended up with 4 rimfires ( one being a JC higgens model 29 he let me take ) and this old Benjamin.
It's missing 90% of the black, the wood is in terrible condition, the barrel is half separated, missing a couple of parts, you name it.
He's capable of doing most of the work the gun needs, but I don't think it's something he will likely ever do.
It will probably just get displayed or something.
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I was at a yard sale about 15 years ago when one of the guys running it offered me a 312 in such poor condition that even at a $2.00 asking price I initially refused it.
$2.00...
It was that bad.
Parts of the barrel had had become unmoored from the original solder, there was an obvious and serious crack in the compression tube near the cocking lever slot, the stock had been squished between the very aggressive jaws of a vice, and, of course, most of the finish was non existent. It was an awful mess.
But then I thought for two bucks I'd be willing to try to bring it back to life. And believe it or not, I worked on it and fixed the darned thing so that not only does it work again, it also looks great.
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It's a little incongruous, the condition of this rifle. I believe it was well cared for for many years and then abused by a different owner. I still don't see how most of the gun can be in such in good condition and the pump linkage totally wrecked. Even the wood is very good for it's age, I don't intend to refinish it. Not nearly as dirty inside as some I have seen and the bore looks good.
I ran into a problem a couple of years ago, resealing a 312 for a co-worker. The pivot pin holes had been wallowed out similar to the ones on this gun. It allowed all the force from compression to bear on the tiny plug retaining screws and they sheared off. I ended up reaming out all four holes and using a 342 plug, with roll pins. Hope to avoid that with this gun.
The rear sight is drift adjustable for windage. Does that help any with narrowing down the age of this oldster?
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Tore down the gun and cleaned it up, inside and out. Gently rubbed the tube and barrel with oily 0000 steel wool. Spot cleaned the wood with window cleaner, then rubbed it down with a walnut half. Looks pretty good but still needs a bolt handle.
Still not performing up to par. Something's not right with the check valve, the pump handle will spring back when starting the opening stroke, after putting in a pump or two of pressure. I used one of Rick's Sheridan kits, put in both new springs. Guess I'll have to pull the valve again...
(https://i.imgur.com/0crYlen.jpg)
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It looks good!
With a little more work you'll have a nice shooter to hang on to.
Ride on,
J~
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I enjoy seeing these finds and salvage work. I keep looking for a tootsie roll shooter and have never seen one.
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Whenever I think I've got these things figured out, I find what a rank amateur I actually am.
I put the old check valve spring back in along with a shorter, softer exhaust valve spring I had on hand. The gun still pumps up without cocking. I might be expecting to much from this old piece but, 500 fps with 5 pumps is a bit low, I would think. Seems to top out around 550-560 with 7-8 pumps. I tried 10 pumps a couple of times with no appreciable gain. The non-adjustable piston I installed is about 1/8" shorter than the original, I decided the back pressure on the pump arm is resulting from that excess head space. At any rate, I have a leather pump cup on the way that I will install on the original piston. Perhaps that will bring the velocity up some.
The gun does shoot well. Even with the primitive sights, I can easily hit 2" bullseyes at 20 yards.
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I wonder if you might have a bit of debris stuck on your check valve seat that's causing the pump arm rebound and low velocity.
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Nice save. It seems like the worst beaters with yankee ingenuity repairs are typically Benjamin for whatever reason, IMHO.
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Very nice work on that old Benjy Terry !!!
Excessive piston head space will just kill the the performance of any pumper.
You might consider a Mac-1 stainless adjustable piston head.
I installed one on my recent BS rebuild and it was super easy.
All ya need is a 1/4-28 die to thread the piston rod after cutting off the old piston head.
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Contact Rick at Precision Pellets, Tim at Mac1 or Mike Baker they may have a synthetic pump rod assembly that you could swap the leather one out with. I have learned the synthetic cup provides way better performance over leather and have been told that many times.
I love saving the impossible save when I find them at affordable prices, this spring I purchased my first basket case pumper (1956 Benjamin 312). When it arrived at my house and I held it for the firs time all I thought was what was I thinking, well not anymore after restoring it to shootable condition. It is also the complimenting variant that resides with my 1940s 312, this one is untouched and still holds air for days.
Keep going your there and I am certain you will get the performance issue sorted soon.
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Thanks all, for the tips and pointers. Rick offered to sell me an adapter with the Hy-car rubber cup when I spoke to him the other day but I had decided to try this piston with the modern Benjamin cup. I'm going to try the new leather cup just out of curiosity. The original piston with leather seal was just clearing the intake hole when it was in the gun. If that doesn't cut it , I'll try something else. I think the check valve seat is alright but will double check again, should I pull the valve one more time.
I made an improvement on my makeshift bolt handle. Got a stainless steel screw and sleeved it with a bit of stainless 1/4" tubing. Easier on the finger (and eyes) than the bare screw.
(https://i.imgur.com/bVgvQ48.jpg)
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Your bolt handle may actually be stronger than the original, the old bolts are a bit of a challenge to find and if you do people ask as much or slightly more than your purchase. There is a person that sells vintage Benjamin parts on ebay, I don’t know he is but wherever he is I hope to find him as he is somewhere within a 15 mile radius of my house because I want to ask for all the brass and wood he does not sell and possibly sells for scrap metal.
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Curious where you found a new leather seal for that gun? At one time, leather seals were pretty common for all kinds of uses, not so much any more. I once used a leather seal for a Coleman lantern (remember the old pump up lanterns?), but I don't think those are available now.
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Curious where you found a new leather seal for that gun? At one time, leather seals were pretty common for all kinds of uses, not so much any more. I once used a leather seal for a Coleman lantern (remember the old pump up lanterns?), but I don't think those are available now.
JG Airguns has them. This is only the second leather piston seal I have come across, the first one in a Crosman 102.
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Curious where you found a new leather seal for that gun? At one time, leather seals were pretty common for all kinds of uses, not so much any more. I once used a leather seal for a Coleman lantern (remember the old pump up lanterns?), but I don't think those are available now.
You can get them on ebay.
Pat
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Curious where you found a new leather seal for that gun? At one time, leather seals were pretty common for all kinds of uses, not so much any more. I once used a leather seal for a Coleman lantern (remember the old pump up lanterns?), but I don't think those are available now.
You can get them on ebay.
Pat
I think Mike Baker has them, too. You can probably find his email address if you search this site.
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Yesterday morning, I decided to shorten my bolt handle. Thought it looked to long so I took just under 1/4" off. This morning I decided to try a spyglass on the gun, popped on a vintage Weaver B6 using a Sheridan intermount. The bolt handle just clears the scope. I know it may make some purists cringe but, what can I say, this is how I roll. Have to see how accurate they are. Once dialed in, my first 5 shot, 20 yard group was right at 1/2". Amazing. Including a pic of my three old Benjis, a 342, 312 and now, a 317.
(https://i.imgur.com/7WLYocA.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/JL3mMi7.jpg)
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Beautiful rifles, the stock on the one in the middle is exceptional. If you Blue the bolt handle you made,
only the purist's would know! ;) Nice job!
Rich
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I tried the replacement leather pump cup in the original piston. Could not get it up to speed, was shooting worse than with the new rubber cup. So, I put the modern cup and piston back in.
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I worked up a fix for the velocity in this gun. I took a nonadjustable piston from an 80s vintage 342 that I parted out a few years ago, with an old, hard pump cup on it. Cleaned the inside surface of the cup and applied some silicone. Used the pump tube as a form. Coated the tube wall with a bit of Vaseline, dropped the piston in upside down just below the rim of the tube. Don't know how long it will last, but I get around 570 fps with 5 pumps now. 6 pumps puts it around 620.
(https://i.imgur.com/qCctlFe.jpg)
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VERY interesting! Keep us posted on how long that performance lasts!
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Shot some groups this morning. This doctored pump cup slightly extended the piston length, plus I filled the front cavity with silicone, reducing the headspace. 3 Pumps=470 fps, 4 pumps 530, 5 pumps 565, 6 pumps almost 600 fps. I tried a single shot with 8 and 10 pumps, 643 and 665. All with RWS Basic 7 gr. JSB 7.8 is more accurate, slightly slower. 50 or more shots this morning, hope this hybrid cup holds up. I might try something similar with my Crosman 101.
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Hybrid piston is holding up great after 200+ shots. Experiment with Crosman 101 showed no gain.
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You might consider a new hammer spring. I noticed quite a difference in my 312.