GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => Turkish AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Blowpipe Sam on August 08, 2021, 03:55:24 PM
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Pointless. There must be a couple dozen of these amateur reviews in the archives here dating back at least a decade.
But I thought I had a couple of observations I’d like to open up for discussion.
I’ve had a plain Jane .22 cal Vortex ram Model 125 for a couple of years now. After some initial teething issues it has settled down to be a darn good airgun. I just purchased a .25 cal refurb springer from Hatsan. At this point I’ve put around 300 shots through it. Mostly 20gr FTT’s. After a little judicious lubrication it sounds more like an air rifle and less like a piece of agricultural machinery. Smoothness and accuracy are both improving and the sound of the shot is a sturdy thump. Interestingly it is free from the dreaded Hatsan “Ping”. My .22 version rings like a wind chime every shot. Here is the quirk. My .25 is the plastic “Sniper” stock variant. Because of the stock contour, the cocking slot is deeper and wider than the slot on my .22 variant. This creates a “slit drum” effect and it amplifies both the cocking noise and the shot noise. I’m thinking of cutting some rubber gasket material and gluing it inside the horns of the stock forearm. I think this will deaden a lot of the action noise. Has anyone tried anything like this with a synthetic stocked springer?
Here’s a comparison of the two guns.
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I took a selection of pellets out this morning to see what would shoot well. The H&N FTT’s won. The top photo I got a fair group at 30 yards on the right hand spinner. Four shots in about 1 inch right at POA. There is a flyer at three o’clock and my initial ranging shot at five o’clock.
The bottom photo is from 25 yards and again the right hand spinner has a nice 5 shot, 1 inch group right about POA. Not too shabby for a $150 refurb and an old man with crummy eyesight! ;D
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Pointless. There must be a couple dozen of these amateur reviews in the archives here dating back at least a decade.
But I thought I had a couple of observations I’d like to open up for discussion.
I’ve had a plain Jane .22 cal Vortex ram Model 125 for a couple of years now. After some initial teething issues it has settled down to be a darn good airgun. I just purchased a .25 cal refurb springer from Hatsan. At this point I’ve put around 300 shots through it. Mostly 20gr FTT’s. After a little judicious lubrication it sounds more like an air rifle and less like a piece of agricultural machinery. Smoothness and accuracy are both improving and the sound of the shot is a sturdy thump. Interestingly it is free from the dreaded Hatsan “Ping”. My .22 version rings like a wind chime every shot. Here is the quirk. My .25 is the plastic “Sniper” stock variant. Because of the stock contour, the cocking slot is deeper and wider than the slot on my .22 variant. This creates a “slit drum” effect and it amplifies both the cocking noise and the shot noise. I’m thinking of cutting some rubber gasket material and gluing it inside the horns of the stock forearm. I think this will deaden a lot of the action noise. Has anyone tried anything like this with a synthetic stocked springer?
Here’s a comparison of the two guns.
One of many things I've tinkered with. The stock is from a Webley VMX. Butt is packed full of PA pellet foam. I was trying other things for a QE baffle system and one was the sound deadener they use in car stereo installations to line the trunk with. That's the silver foil stuff you see inside the stock. the underside is a self sticking putty like stuff that helps deaden sound. Makes the stock a bit heavier, does help a little and might well work for you? Not sure I want to try taking it out of there but since you were planning to glue rubber in yours, you might not care.
If you have a car stereo shop around that does those installations, they may well have some scraps laying around they might give you for nothing. Cocking noise may well be just the metal of the cocking arm riding the underside of the piston. Cock it, very carefully remove the action from the stock and grease that slot on the piston. Should help lessen that noise some.
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Thanks for the suggestion Steve. I also considered green felt but I thought the black rubber would look more sano.
After some more lubrication I went out and ran some field tests on my new portable backstop. I shot probably a hundred pellets today. Accuracy is improving and I have pushed the range back to 35 yards. At this range the groups have opened up to around two inches. Two reasons for this are, operator error and the fact that I’m using the Hatsan Vortex Strike pellets during the break in period. I’m still learning to shoot this gun. I can get 3 and 4 shot clusters that average half an inch but flyers always open them up. The gun is much smoother and quieter now. Still dieseling after approximately 400 shots. But interestingly it only diesels when I load an under sized pellet. Lots of the Hatsan pellets are under size. I’ve been sorting them and trying to only shoot those with the tightest fitting heads.
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I worked an early shift today and got home with some daylight left. Unhappy with yesterday’s results I brought the range back down to thirty yards and shot another fifty Hatsan Vortex Strike pellets. Accuracy with these has improved to the point where I can ring a 2” spinner consistently at thirty yards. I greased the cocking slot per SteveP’s advice and achieved another incremental reduction in noise. The gun is now noisiest at the end of the cocking stroke. I guess it’s that last few inches of spring compressing that makes the sound.
I’m averaging around fifty shots a day through the gun and it should be somewhere north of 450 shots by now. A five shot test group with 20 gr FTT’s made a 1 1/8” group at thirty yards.
I’m using a fairly gentle artillery hold. Seems to be working.
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Dry spring crunch that last inch or 2 would be my lame guess too but only because I've had that same crunch in the smaller Hatty's. Only have experience with one bigger Hatty rifle and that's a Walther Talon Magnum .22 made by Hatsan for Walther and that's very little. Same rifle as your 125 only Walther logo'd and now owned by Tommy Wood. I had very good luck with the JSB Heavy .22's so maybe when a few places finally have some, you can grab a tin or 2 of the .25 cal JSB 25.39gr's to try.
I always defer to mikeyb on the bigger Hatsan guns since he owns and has worked on most of them so hopefully he'll see this and chime in with things he's seen and found.
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Thank you Steve. I shot another 50 pellets today. The sound is decreasing but I think only a real lube tune will eliminate it totally. Some where around 350 shots we passed a milestone. Accuracy is heaps better. Today I shot two 4 shot 30 yard groups that clustered right around .5 inch except for one bobble each that opened them up to 1”. Now that bobble is probably my fault. I ain’t the greatest shot and I don’t use fancy shooting aids. I shoot from a lawn chair with an old lighting tripod for a rest so accuracy is subject to my abilities on a given day. But I believe that this gun is capable of half inch groups.
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Tried some crow magnums today. I’d been shooting FTT’s at thirty yards so I just switched to the Crow Magnums and immediately shot a four shot group that measured less than half an inch then the fifth shot opened it up to 1”. So I switched targets and shot another one hole, four shot cluster followed by a flyer. By the third target my groups had opened up to around two inches. The springer curse strikes again! I put it down. I’m confident now that this .25 will be a fine hunting rifle next season. ;D
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And there’s the proof. Came home today and picked the rifle up. The first five FTT’s at thirty yards made this 3/4” group. I don’t think I’m going to get any better groups out of it with the FTT’s. I’ll be ordering some 27gr JSB Kings next payday. Half inch groups are kind of my benchmark. If I can put five shots out of seven into a half inch at 35 yards then the accuracy of the gun is acceptable for hunting. This gun isn’t there yet but it is getting better. I’m learning to shoot the gun as well. This gun requires a light artillery hold and a firm, steady trigger squeeze until just short of the sear release point. Then a little more pressure and the trigger breaks cleanly. The shot cycle is definitely more active than my vortex piston .22 model.
The power is addictive. The .25 cal pellets arrive at the target with audibly more energy than the .22. They also fling my heavy rim fire spinners around with gusto! Can’t wait to take this cannon hunting!
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Carter: what kind of velocity are you getting on that .25 springer?
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Carter: what kind of velocity are you getting on that .25 springer?
Ive used a cell phone app chronograph for a couple of years now with indifferent results. I haven’t tried the app on this gun because it is a PITA to do and requires my wife’s assistance. Her cell phone skills are way beyond mine but I haven’t wanted to ask her to spend a boring(for her) hour outside in the awful heat here. The refurb card from Hatsan claimed a ten shot average velocity of 770 FPS. I’m assuming that was done shooting an approximately 20gr pellet. Anyway that was 500 shots ago and the gun is sure to have lost some velocity during the break in period. The seat of my pants says that my 20gr H&N FTT’s are doing about 720 FPS maybe a little less. This is based on my estimation of the lag between the shot and the sound of the impact on the target. This lag is about the same as the lag for my 700-720 fps .22 guns. I know Hatsan advertises 850 fps for this gun but my experience has shown that in the real world Hatsans shoot approximately 100 fps below the factory advertised specs.
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On e thing I have to remember when shooting my Hatsans is lift the trigger not pull it straight back.
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On e thing I have to remember when shooting my Hatsans is lift the trigger not pull it straight back.
Thank you for the reminder. I usually place my thumb high on the wrist of the stock to help with leverage but this gun has different stock ergonomics than my .22 Mod 125. Might help to experiment. :D
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Yes I will keep flogging this horse.
Well I’ve had a couple of days this last week when I came home, picked up the Hatsan, walked outside and shot two or three near flawless 5/8” groups at thirty yards. So the the gun is well and truly broken in now and I’ve come to terms with its preferred hold style (moderately loose artillery hold). The Hammers 3-9 scope is still solid. After approximately 600 shots (my nephews shot it probably 100 times last weekend) the spring is still a little noisy but not obnoxiously so. The shot cycle is surprisingly smooth with just a thump for the report. None of the small parts that I have had problems with before on other Hatsans has been trouble. Now that I have some experience with it I’ve revised my intention to use this gun to hunt (small) feral pigs. There is plenty of power and the accuracy is good enough out to 25 yards but I just don’t think it has enough penetration. Empirical penetration tests using different media show that the .22 caliber model 125 has the edge.
Final analysis? I like it! While I still don’t like the look of the “Sniper” stock I do like the ergonomics much better than those of the plain Jane stock on my .22. Think I might swap stocks between the two guns and see how I like that.
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What is the heaviest .22 pellet you have tried in the 125 ? It may be worth trying one of the upper mid heavies to give some more down range smack\.
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Tommy Woods had one of the best explanations for using that Quattro trigger and the odd pull it takes.
Slide your finger down the trigger until the bottom edge of your finger is on the trigger guard. Now just keep it there when pulling the trigger and your finger riding up the inside of that trigger guard as a guide makes that odd upward and back trigger pull way easier. Worked for me (least it does when I finally remember to do it that way...lol) and maybe will for you??
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What is the heaviest .22 pellet you have tried in the 125 ? It may be worth trying one of the upper mid heavies to give some more down range smack\.
I tried a lot of pellets when I first got my .22. I think the heaviest were 21gr Baracuda Hunters. They did alright but the beast prefers 18gr Sniper Magnums and 18gr AA Diabolo Field Heavies. For long range penetration nothing beats the Sniper Magnums. I’m not too worried about the ,22’s ability to down medium sized game if I do my part. I was hoping the .25 would be a little more forgiving of shot placement. I have since decided that the difference in power between the two calibers isn’t enough to matter and the .22 is (fractionally) more accurate and has much better penetration.
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8) yup the 18 gr is what I was thinking would be great.
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Tommy Woods had one of the best explanations for using that Quattro trigger and the odd pull it takes.
Slide your finger down the trigger until the bottom edge of your finger is on the trigger guard. Now just keep it there when pulling the trigger and your finger riding up the inside of that trigger guard as a guide makes that odd upward and back trigger pull way easier. Worked for me (least it does when I finally remember to do it that way...lol) and maybe will for you??
That is a good suggestion and I’m gonna try it out tomorrow. I’m getting some pretty good and consistent groups right now so I think I have proved to my satisfaction that the gun is accurate. I just need to work out a consistent hold and trigger pull to take advantage of it.
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I’m feeling a bit under the weather but I took the .25 out for a dozen shots this evening. I shot two Hatsan Vortex Strike pellets at an old target. The results were so good I stuck up some fresh targets and shot the 1” group in the top photo at 30 yards, seated unsupported.
Looked so good I shot 5 H&N FTT’s at another target. The first shot was dead on POA.
So I took a picture of it.
Then I shot four more for the nice 7/8” group in the bottom photo.
I got some good advice from people here about tuning the gun to make it smoother and quieter. I’m hoping to receive some parts from Hatsan in the next few weeks. A better shot could probably wring smaller groups out of it but as far as I’m concerned it’s ready for hunting season. ;D
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Tommy Woods had one of the best explanations for using that Quattro trigger and the odd pull it takes.
Slide your finger down the trigger until the bottom edge of your finger is on the trigger guard. Now just keep it there when pulling the trigger and your finger riding up the inside of that trigger guard as a guide makes that odd upward and back trigger pull way easier. Worked for me (least it does when I finally remember to do it that way...lol) and maybe will for you??
That is a good suggestion and I’m gonna try it out tomorrow. I’m getting some pretty good and consistent groups right now so I think I have proved to my satisfaction that the gun is accurate. I just need to work out a consistent hold and trigger pull to take advantage of it.
Hi "Captain" Carter
Here is a past post that I did on pulling the Quatro Trigger.
For best accuracy, the trigger should be "pulled( Squeezed)" in a slight upward arc by allowing your trigger finger to follow the curvature of the trigger guard.
The pictures of this method are below.
Best Wishes - Tom
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Tommy Woods had one of the best explanations for using that Quattro trigger and the odd pull it takes.
Slide your finger down the trigger until the bottom edge of your finger is on the trigger guard. Now just keep it there when pulling the trigger and your finger riding up the inside of that trigger guard as a guide makes that odd upward and back trigger pull way easier. Worked for me (least it does when I finally remember to do it that way...lol) and maybe will for you??
That is a good suggestion and I’m gonna try it out tomorrow. I’m getting some pretty good and consistent groups right now so I think I have proved to my satisfaction that the gun is accurate. I just need to work out a consistent hold and trigger pull to take advantage of it.
Hi "Captain" Carter
Here is a past post that I did on pulling the Quatro Trigger.
For best accuracy, the trigger should be "pulled( Squeezed)" in a slight upward arc by allowing your trigger finger to follow the curvature of the trigger guard.
The pictures of this method are below.
Best Wishes - Tom
Thats the technique I used to get the two groups I posted today. Thank you! I think it has shaved a quarter inch off my groups. I’m also going to pick up a longer trigger adjustment screw for the Quattro trigger.
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Tom, thanks for chiming in :)
Carter, happy to see it ended up working out for you. Nice groups, sir :)
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Hi Captain Carter.
OK ... I managed to do a little shooting this evening with my 25 cal. Hatsan 125 Spring Piston rifle.
The target was placed out at 40 yards. (paced yardage 38 to 40 yards)
I took 27 shots with 4 different brands of 25 cal. pellets.
The temperature was 68 F. The wind was calm with no noticeable breeze.
I took the shots standing, semi offhand, with the for-stock resting in the vee formed between my thumb and fingers.
My for-stock hand was braced on a doorway.
The butt-stock was resting firmly at my shoulder but not super snug.
All shots were aimed at the exact center of a Birchwood Casey 3 inch stick on target.
None of the shots hit dead center on the target.
Gee Whiz Carter ....I sincerely hope this information is of some assistance to you.
I employed the "Special Hatsan" Quatro Trigger Pull on all shots.
The pellets I shot were as follows in order of accuracy.
1. H&N 19.91 gr. Field Target Trophy domed pellets = 10 shots with 9 covered by a quarter.
The H&N pellets shot 1/2 inch low but on center.
*These pellets were by far the most accurate.*
I'll be hunting with the H&N pellets this year... after I tweak in the scope some.
2. Benjamin 27.8 gr. Domed pellets = 6 shots with 4 covered by a quarter.
The Benjamin pellets shot 4 1/2 inches low but on center.
3. Hatsan 19,91 gr. Vortex Supreme Domed pellets = 5 shots with 3 covered by a quarter.
The Hatsan pellets shot to the right by 3/4 of an inch. One shot was off of the target, trailing to the lower right.
4. Gamo Rocket Penerator 20.86 gr. Domed pellets = 6 shots with 4 covered by a quarter.
The Gamo pellets shot 3/4 inch high with one shot trailing to the lower left.
Carter, click the image, once or twice if you wish to enlarge the picture.
Best Wishes - Tom
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For shooting a magnum springer, that are some great results Tom !
Also, it is interesting to see that there is some slight difference in results based on the pellet you have been shooting, but not by a huge difference.
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Hi Captain Carter.
OK ... I managed to do a little shooting this evening with my 25 cal. Hatsan 125 Spring Piston rifle.
The target was placed out at 40 yards. (paced yardage 38 to 40 yards)
I took 27 shots with 4 different brands of 25 cal. pellets.
The temperature was 68 F. The wind was calm with no noticeable breeze.
I took the shots standing, semi offhand, with the for-stock resting in the vee formed between my thumb and fingers.
My for-stock hand was braced on a doorway.
The butt-stock was resting firmly at my shoulder but not super snug.
All shots were aimed at the exact center of a Birchwood Casey 3 inch stick on target.
None of the shots hit dead center on the target.
Gee Whiz Carter ....I sincerely hope this information is of some assistance to you.
I employed the "Special Hatsan" Quatro Trigger Pull on all shots.
The pellets I shot were as follows in order of accuracy.
1. H&N 19.91 gr. Field Target Trophy domed pellets = 10 shots with 9 covered by a quarter.
The H&N pellets shot 1/2 inch low but on center.
*These pellets were by far the most accurate.*
I'll be hunting with the H&N pellets this year... after I tweak in the scope some.
2. Benjamin 27.8 gr. Domed pellets = 6 shots with 4 covered by a quarter.
The Benjamin pellets shot 4 1/2 inches low but on center.
3. Hatsan 19,91 gr. Vortex Supreme Domed pellets = 5 shots with 3 covered by a quarter.
The Hatsan pellets shot to the right by 3/4 of an inch. One shot was off of the target, trailing to the lower right.
4. Gamo Rocket Penerator 20.86 gr. Domed pellets = 6 shots with 4 covered by a quarter.
The Gamo pellets shot 3/4 inch high with one shot trailing to the lower left.
Carter, click the image, once or twice if you wish to enlarge the picture.
Best Wishes - Tom
Impressive shooting Tom, especially with those FTT pellets at 40 yds. That hold is what I use while hunting, but using a tree or limb instead of door post of course. ;D
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Wow Tom. That is some awesome shooting. It’s actually humbling. I’ve said several times that I believe that my gun can shoot half inch groups. Just not sure I can!;D
I’m getting better. My group size has been declining and first shot accuracy is improving. I would like to be achieving the level of practical accuracy that Tom can. If I could shoot like that at 40 yards I would feel perfectly confident assaying a head shot at a squirrel at 30-35 yards.
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I personally think the whole point of having a large-caliber magnum springer is to not need headshots on small game. A HW50 can do that, and way easier in all regards. Put a .25 cal magnum pellet behind the front leg of a 16 lb. hare, and it goes down. JME.
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I have Hatsan 125 .22 sniper (springer) and had a 125TH .25 which was a referb. The 125TH would give me a migraine within 5 shots, caused by the harsh vibrations and noise transferred through the stock. Unresolved neck and back issues didn't help any at the time. I ended up giving that gun away to someone who needed a heavy hitting airgun instead of smoothing it out. I use(d) JSB/Air Arms 25.4gr pellets exclusively, I found the trajectory to be manageable and they carry energy well.
Later I got the sniper .22, which was much better right out of the box. It loves cheap CPHP's and is one of my more powerful airguns. Scoped it with a 3-9X Centerpoint freebie which has been holding up well. Though honestly, the gun doesn't get shot much. Only comes out when I'm not sure a .177 is up to the task. The cocking effort is just too high for leisurely shooting (for me)
The .25 caliber is a great choice. It's a hammer on (small) small game. I found it's very good for eliminating red squirrels and the like, as you can take almost any shot that puts the lead through the vitals, no matter what direction/position your quarry is in or facing. With a .22 I find I have to be a bit more selective and precise with my shots. Usually I limit myself to 30yards or less, no matter the caliber. Sometimes I've had to reach out further, but I try not to if avoidable. I occasionally think of getting another 125 in .25, but can't justify buying one as I have a Remington VTR 725 for slinging .25 caliber pellets.
Anyways, great shooting with those magnum breakbarrels! With groups posted here and the power the Hatsan 125 makes, any small game should be taken very easily within range.
Take care and be safe.
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I’m thinking about getting a .25 hatsan Springer.
How effective is the barrel pickle?
This might help deaden action noise. I’ve filled internal slots that didn’t get in the way of the action with a mix of pellets and gorilla glue. Went in after gorilla glue expanded with an exacto blade to clean up.
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It's effective in reducing muzzle report. The action of my .22 125 sniper is louder than the report, I'd imagine the .25 report would be even softer with a pickle. Loud reports echo off my shed, I don't get any when shooting the 125 sniper, 95QE or 135QE. I do get it with Non-pickled guns, lol.
I dug out my Hatsan 125 sniper to give another go (it actually has a centerpoint 4X scope, not a 3-9). Took a dozen shots to relearn the hold. Here's a 5 shot group at 25 yards. The low shot was me. I pulled it as a truck towing a trailer going by had something clank around, HARD! Thought it was an accident at first. Luckily it wasn't, Lol. Didn't want to wear myself out shooting any more so this group will have to suffice for now. These guns will wear you out if shot in high volume, but the power is addictive ;D
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Good group. Definitely could get some bunnies or doves with that.
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This is an interesting thread for me.
I too have a 125 in .25 (coil spring) that Hatsan indicated was running at 770 fps with mystery pellets.
I bought it in .25 because I have a 350 in .22.
If not, practicality would probably driven me to .22.
That said, I'm coming to realize the difference in BC between .25 & .22, and shooting .25 looks pretty good to me. Certainly within reasonable range. Call that 30 or 40 yards.
I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that the .25 doesn't drop as much as I had imagined. In fact I just bought some high BC mid weight JSBs to take advantage of that.
So, my 125 isnt broken in yet but I have been shooting it some (how I envy everyone with an airgun friendly back yard!). I haven't had a chance to chrony it.
The shot cycle is sudden and strong, and the pellets seem to get to target fast.
I can tell you that it hits steel spinners noticeably harder than the 350 does.
The 350 does it without that little "ping" though... ha ha.
With the pellet shortage, I like to think that Hatsan is using the cheapest pellet available to them, which I guess to be ther own Strike 24.7 grain. If true that 770 fps works out to around 32 fpe.
I suppose its possible though it doesn't seem likely.
But if my rifle turns out to be an outlier, I'll definitely send it for a tuning. Seals, hone, spring, choke etc.
I can't quite forget about the odd feeling that I got while at the range - that the 125 seemed to shoot nearly as fast as the 350 on 25 yard spinners. I wish I had moved the spinners back to 50....
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My guess is they are H&N.
Hatsan probably rates it at 770fps using the 19.9grain FTT for ~26fpe.
Tune it anyway, not only if it gets 32fpe.
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Hi Sam
That's what I originally assumed too, and they probably have a supply of whatever cheap pellets they test with.
But it was actual data (refurb). If it was with 20's the energy numbers are low. And it doesn't seem to shoot "low". I'm looking forward to finding out what the velocity really is.
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I’ve read a few reviews of refurb .25 cal model 125’s. More than one of them mentions that the refurb card that came with the gun claims a tested 770 FPS. The refurb card that came with my refurb .25 cal claims 770 FPS. Now Kragman says that his refurb card indicates 770 FPS. Am I just cynical or does anyone else find that suspicious? I don’t have a chronograph to test my guns but I’m starting to think it might be worthwhile. The seat of my pants tells my that mine is making between 730 and 750 FPS with 20gr pellets.
I just ordered another three tins of 20.06gr H&N FTT’s and a tin of 27gr Baracuda Hunters from PA. The 24.5gr JSB’s don’t stay on the shelves long these days. I’m buying what I can get in .25 ammo. Fortunately both of my .25’s run good on FTT’s.
Anyhoo. . . I’m not disappointed with the performance of either of my Mod125’s. IMO .25 caliber may be the best match for this power plant. My .25 has broken in to be a real sweet shooting gun out to at least 40 yards. It is more accurate than my .22 cal Mod 125 and the .22 is plenty accurate. With some heavier pellets I might stretch it’s range past fifty yards but not by much.
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Ha! I wondered about that too after reading about one other 770, and assumed that I was being paranoid.
But three now, well that feels different.
Really need to get a reading on mine darn it!
Seriously, it doesn't matter much to me.
I would LIKE it to be a velocity performer, because I didn't buy it to be a plinker.
If its not, well, whatever.
It still hits hard, and accuracy seems fine so its a 30 yard large pest gun either way.
But if they just pencil whip that form (or just run copies of the thing) I'd be a little disappointed. Better for everyone if they didn't lie about such a needless thing.
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A healthy Hatsan 125 should make at least 26fpe. Some have reported 28-Ish fpe and up to 30+fpe in .25 caliber with some work. How true 30+fpe claims are I can't say. To my understanding the spring version has a bit more power than the Vortex ram out of the box generally. They were putting in Nitro Piston gas rams early on and some claimed less power with those, between 24-26fpe from what I've read. Reportedly, There was a rash of 125's and 135's that had out of round compression chambers that robbed these Uber magnums of power and caused other issues earlier on, though I haven't read any reports of this recently. After learning the Vortex ram can be adjusted, it may be possible to squeak a couple more ftlbs. out of those guns, at the cost of a harsher shot cycle. Any airgun making 24fpe+ in .25 is serious medicine on small game out to 50+ yards, if you can put the lead on target. I've only done it once (50yard shot on game with .25), but was impressed by the results. Slow and heavy works good ;D
Hatsan's are geared towards maximum power, no matter which model (aside from the Alpha). The velocity claims have been darn close to exceeding in my limited experience with Hatsan. I spent a lot of time looking into the 125 and 135 springers a few years back before buying one of these monsters. I got a 135 springer in .177 and was hooked. That was followed by another 135qe referb, a 95QE, a 150 and then the 125TH and 125 sniper. All these guns blew the NP B19 guns I was used to at the time out of the water, in terms of power. Accuracy with all but the 150 has been great. My only issue with Hatsan is when it comes to repair. The screws are soft and the trigger assembly always gives me fits when going back together. But that's a whole different topic.
After a quick search I found a 125 sniper and a plain Jane 125, each a springer in .25 caliber for under $225 new on amazon. Very tempting, but I rarely shoot the monster springers I already have. My supply of 25.4gr pellets are fairly old and usually are saved for "special occasions".
My apologies for the long winded post. Too many thoughts rambling around...
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Ha! I wondered about that too after reading about one other 770, and assumed that I was being paranoid.
But three now, well that feels different.
Really need to get a reading on mine darn it!
Seriously, it doesn't matter much to me.
I would LIKE it to be a velocity performer, because I didn't buy it to be a plinker.
If its not, well, whatever.
It still hits hard, and accuracy seems fine so its a 30 yard large pest gun either way.
But if they just pencil whip that form (or just run copies of the thing) I'd be a little disappointed. Better for everyone if they didn't lie about such a needless thing.
I just think Hatsan is a bit “optimistic” about their figures. IMO Hatsan overclaims for their performance figures but not as much as Crosman or Gamo. Real world wise my Hatsans seem to run about 100 to 150 FPS slower than the factory claims. That is plenty good enough for me and still head a shoulders above a Ruger Air Magnum or a Crosman NP2 powered gun. I read a lot about how many people are disappointed with their magnum springers when they can’t hit the target or achieve the performance numbers on the box and how fatiguing they are to shoot. I LOVE my magnum Hatsans! They are accurate and extremely powerful. I don’t have any trouble shooting these guns fifty or more time in a session. Of course I am 6’6” tall, 290 lbs, and I have arms like a gorilla. ;D
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A healthy Hatsan 125 should make at least 26fpe. Some have reported 28-Ish fpe and up to 30+fpe in .25 caliber with some work. How true 30+fpe claims are I can't say. To my understanding the spring version has a bit more power than the Vortex ram out of the box generally. They were putting in Nitro Piston gas rams early on and some claimed less power with those, between 24-26fpe from what I've read. Reportedly, There was a rash of 125's and 135's that had out of round compression chambers that robbed these Uber magnums of power and caused other issues earlier on, though I haven't read any reports of this recently. After learning the Vortex ram can be adjusted, it may be possible to squeak a couple more ftlbs. out of those guns, at the cost of a harsher shot cycle. Any airgun making 24fpe+ in .25 is serious medicine on small game out to 50+ yards, if you can put the lead on target. I've only done it once (50yard shot on game with .25), but was impressed by the results. Slow and heavy works good ;D
Hatsan's are geared towards maximum power, no matter which model (aside from the Alpha). The velocity claims have been darn close to exceeding in my limited experience with Hatsan. I spent a lot of time looking into the 125 and 135 springers a few years back before buying one of these monsters. I got a 135 springer in .177 and was hooked. That was followed by another 135qe referb, a 95QE, a 150 and then the 125TH and 125 sniper. All these guns blew the NP B19 guns I was used to at the time out of the water, in terms of power. Accuracy with all but the 150 has been great. My only issue with Hatsan is when it comes to repair. The screws are soft and the trigger assembly always gives me fits when going back together. But that's a whole different topic.
After a quick search I found a 125 sniper and a plain Jane 125, each a springer in .25 caliber for under $225 new on amazon. Very tempting, but I rarely shoot the monster springers I already have. My supply of 25.4gr pellets are fairly old and usually are saved for "special occasions".
My apologies for the long winded post. Too many thoughts rambling around...
Are you satisfied with how Hatsan locates the barrel breech block in the forks? It’s probably based on however Webley did it.
Have you had a D34 or XS25 to compare the Hatsan to?
That’s my gripe with crosman Springers. Bad design.
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Ha! I wondered about that too after reading about one other 770, and assumed that I was being paranoid.
But three now, well that feels different.
Really need to get a reading on mine darn it!
Seriously, it doesn't matter much to me.
I would LIKE it to be a velocity performer, because I didn't buy it to be a plinker.
If its not, well, whatever.
It still hits hard, and accuracy seems fine so its a 30 yard large pest gun either way.
But if they just pencil whip that form (or just run copies of the thing) I'd be a little disappointed. Better for everyone if they didn't lie about such a needless thing.
I just think Hatsan is a bit “optimistic” about their figures. IMO Hatsan overclaims for their performance figures but not as much as Crosman or Gamo. Real world wise my Hatsans seem to run about 100 to 150 FPS slower than the factory claims. That is plenty good enough for me and still head a shoulders above a Ruger Air Magnum or a Crosman NP2 powered gun. I read a lot about how many people are disappointed with their magnum springers when they can’t hit the target or achieve the performance numbers on the box and how fatiguing they are to shoot. I LOVE my magnum Hatsans! They are accurate and extremely powerful. I don’t have any trouble shooting these guns fifty or more time in a session. Of course I am 6’6” tall, 290 lbs, and I have arms like a gorilla. ;D
With your build, Carter sir, you could break a person in half ;D
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Are you satisfied with how Hatsan locates the barrel breech block in the forks? It’s probably based on however Webley did it.
Have you had a D34 or XS25 to compare the Hatsan to?
That’s my gripe with crosman Springers. Bad design.
I've had no problems with Hatsan's break barrel lock up design. It's pretty good when compared to Crosman's design, in my opinion. I honestly went from Crosman to Hatsan, then Ruger (Air Magnum &BlackHawk ) to Diana and finally to Weihrauch with one Gamo thrown in. They can all achieve better accuracy than I'm capable of shooting, but Crosman NP & XL models seem more temperamental than the rest. The Diana and clones use a ball detent instead of a chisel. I think Crosman and maybe Gamo are the only one's to use synthetic/plastic pivot washers.
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Are you satisfied with how Hatsan locates the barrel breech block in the forks? It’s probably based on however Webley did it.
Have you had a D34 or XS25 to compare the Hatsan to?
That’s my gripe with crosman Springers. Bad design.
I've had no problems with Hatsan's break barrel lock up design. It's pretty good when compared to Crosman's design, in my opinion. I honestly went from Crosman to Hatsan, then Ruger (Air Magnum &BlackHawk ) to Diana and finally to Weihrauch with one Gamo thrown in. They can all achieve better accuracy than I'm capable of shooting, but Crosman NP & XL models seem more temperamental than the rest. The Diana and clones use a ball detent instead of a chisel. I think Crosman and maybe Gamo are the only one's to use synthetic/plastic pivot washers.
Hatsan uses one synthetic washer and one flat steel washer. The compressibility of the synthetic washer is what provides the pivot tension. The synthetic washers wear out. I recently ordered all the pivot parts I needed from Hatsan to rebuild the pivot on my Striker. Given what I now know, next time I’ll cut a thin shim out of artist Mylar sheet to shim the plastic washer and save myself some money and time.
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Are you satisfied with how Hatsan locates the barrel breech block in the forks? It’s probably based on however Webley did it.
Have you had a D34 or XS25 to compare the Hatsan to?
That’s my gripe with crosman Springers. Bad design.
Own 2 D34's and had an XS25 now owned by LtDan, no complaints on how any of them locate the block in the forks and so far, never had any lock up issues and I've owned or still do a bunch of Hatsans/Turk built Webleys.
Unless they're making their own pellets, they're likely using the H&N's to run their fps tests. I'm give or take about 585 feet above sea level where I live and although low, fps on all of them has been within 45-65 of what Hatsan advertises.
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I know it's not a .25, but I did chrony my (Spring) 125 Sniper in .22. I'm sure most of the .25 caliber guns are putting out similar, if not more ft lbs. Most Hatsan's make a bit more power with heavier lead, though fps will be lower.
Using CPHP 14.3's:
high 944- 28.3fpe
Low 930- 27.5fpe
The tight ones were faster, usually 938-944 fps. This tin varies in size, mostly the looser fitting run 930-935 fps.
Hatsan claims up to 1,000 fps and 33fpe maximum for the .22, I think 1,000 fps isn't too far off. A lighter lead pellet that's tight (and fresh spring & factory lube ;) ) would definitely get 1,000 fps.
These are powerhouse springers for sure. If the gun shoots good, don't worry about not making power. It's there ;D
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I know it's not a .25, but I did chrony my (Spring) 125 Sniper in .22. I'm sure most of the .25 caliber guns are putting out similar, if not more ft lbs. Most Hatsan's make a bit more power with heavier lead, though fps will be lower.
Using CPHP 14.3's:
high 944- 28.3fpe
Low 930- 27.5fpe
The tight ones were faster, usually 938-944 fps. This tin varies in size, mostly the looser fitting run 930-935 fps.
Hatsan claims up to 1,000 fps and 33fpe maximum for the .22, I think 1,000 fps isn't too far off. A lighter lead pellet that's tight (and fresh spring & factory lube ;) ) would definitely get 1,000 fps.
These are powerhouse springers for sure. If the gun shoots good, don't worry about not making power. It's there ;D
Thanks for posting your numbers. I used my cell phone chrono app on my Vortex ram .22 cal Mod 125 a while back. I checked my notes and the average velocity was somewhere near 922 FPS with CPHP’s. The cell phone app is a PITA to use and requires you to edit a lot of flyers so I only claim approximate data from it.
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My H135 .25 cal developed 40.6 J / 29.9 fpe with Polymags before I tore her down, to find a canted mainspring and a nicked piston seal.
The gun is in bits now, due to no time for AG's, but I have no doubt the H135 can reach 46 J / 33+ fpe, given insides in (realistically) perfect condition.
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Sam - I can give you some numbers from my 125.
(coil spring, .25 cal, refurb, round count around 100)
FTTs 20.06
835.9
828.7
828.3
834.9
831.0
avg 831.8 fps
30.81 fpe
JSB 25.39
739.5
737.6
739.0
743.4
742.6
741.2
745.4
740.0
741.7
743.3
avg 741.4 fps
30.98 fpe
Benjamin 27.8 domes
avg 699 fps
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Oooops - my cut and paste got cut a little short....
Benjamin 27.8 domes
696.8
701.2
698.9
Avg 698.97
30.15 fpe
Crow Mag
721.8
724.8
720.9
715.9
715.2
30.15 fpe
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I don’t know if you just got a good one Brian. But those are some impressive numbers!
Thanks for posting these. It’s nice to know what numbers other people are really getting. I read reviews and the factory specs so I know what the factory and the reviewers claim for the velocity.
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Well, I hope to get some kind of borrowed scope on it and get it and some other guns back to the range this weekend. Maybe the same 3, this time with targets!
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Believe it or not I’ve shot better than 1000 pellets through this gun at this point. About three days ago I had the first issue with it. I noticed that the gun was not holding zero. I had been trying out some heavier pellets and I noticed that the POI seemed to be dropping during the shooting session. The next morning I was hoping to take the gun hunting so I checked the zero with one shot and it was spot on. I carried the gun slung while I walked about a mile through my permission. After about two hours I had seen several squirrels and had shot at two. All missed. Back home I tried a few shots on my known distance range and found the POI had dropped six inches. I tried a couple of different pellets and could not get the gun to group in any diagnosable pattern. Without a chronograph it’s really hard to tell what the problem is but I’m going to quit wasting expensive pellets and tear this thing apart. I received two piston seals and a handful of screws and washers that I ordered from Hatsan.
I’m going to do a scope swap to make sure that the scope isn’t knackered but I’m committed to installing a longer spring guide and doing a lube tune so putting new seal in was on the menu anyway.
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Well Sam, I'm sorry to hear that your rifle is giving you trouble.
But looking forward to see how well it runs after it gets some attention!
BTW, I did get a a temporary scope mounted and took a few shots with mine.
It clearly liked the JSB 25.39's. I don't remember if I've posted this group, but here it is JIC. Not much more than 1/8" at 9 yards.
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Thank you Brian. I’m a little bummed but as I wrote I’m going to tear it down anyway and de-bur it. My diagnosis is a burned piston seal. I was planning on putting a new seal in it anyway. Hopefully my home made spring guide will be a success and the lube tune will tame the twang. If all goes well it will be much smoother, quieter, and maybe a little more accurate. I expect to lose a little power but 26-27 fpe is perfectly adequate for what I use this gun for.
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Sam, when I was a kid I learned a few valuable things from my older uncles. One of the good ones was "If you have to fix it, you might as well improve it." They were all machinists or toolmakers, so you can see where this attitude came from.
So while its a bummer for your rifle to be down, the big silver lining is that it will come out of it better than before.
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Crisis over. I checked all the screws and everything was tight. Then I checked the barrel pivot tension with the gun cocked and un-cocked. Yep, un-cocked the barrel was loose. So I tightened everything up and ran some 25.39gr JSB Exact Kings through it at thirty five yards. Yowsa! I’m going hunting tomorrow! ;D
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I let the loc-tite cure on the barrel pivot screw overnight and took it out for a test run this morning. I got off about ten really accurate shots before the POI started to drift again.I checked the barrel tension and it is loose again. I have encountered this problem recently with my Striker so I know what the solution is. The barrel pivot screw needs to be replaced along with the synthetic washer. I have a brand new barrel pivot screw that I ordered from Hatsan and a new synthetic washer. I’m going to try and cut a shim for the old synthetic washer out of 2mil artist Mylar first and see if that helps.
Really thinking about doing a barrel and stock swap with my Vortex ram 125. I’d put the .25 barrel on the Vortex chassis and stick it in the Sniper stock. Then put the .22 barrel on the springer chassis and stick that in the plain Jane synthetic 125 stock. I’ve been planning on doing this from the start but I was going to buy a chronograph and chronograph everything first. Then, whichever gun was the most powerful would get the .25 barrel. Buying a chronograph is getting farther and farther in the future. Maybe after I get my tax return next year. :P
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I hear ya. Chronos are such irreplaceable tools to any airgun modding / tuning efforts.
People did shoot springers for generations before everyday chronos were available, but then power levels were modest, they varied only a little between different springer models, and hunting ethics weren't much of an issue.
PB shooters have questioned springers as hunting weapons to me, precisely because "how can you tell if your airgun's spring has fatigued and pellet velocity and KE has dropped to unethical levels?" Chronoing is the only (ethical) answer.
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O’kay. I replaced the barrel pivot screw and I think I have figured out a way to keep it from loosening. I’ve run sixty or seventy shots through it since. The zero kept wandering so I removed the Hammers scope and replaced it with a UTG 3-9X32. It is shooting to point of aim at thirty yards with JSB Kings now.
I’m off tomorrow. Flash and I’ll be up early. It’s time to test out the 6.35mm antisquirrel gun. ;D
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Carter, I found the barrel pivot screws on my AirTact were a bit too short. I got 4 mm longer ones (with Allen heads) at the hardware store and added zinc plated steel washers between the star washers and stock.
My thinking is that the star washers will keep the tension and the zinc-plated washer will let it pivot smoothly without chewing up the stock. Loctite to keep them from backing out. No need to mess with replacing plastic bushings, right?
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Carter, I found the barrel pivot screws on my AirTact were a bit too short. I got 4 mm longer ones (with Allen heads) at the hardware store and added zinc plated steel washers between the star washers and stock.
My thinking is that the star washers will keep the tension and the zinc-plated washer will let it pivot smoothly without chewing up the stock. Loctite to keep them from backing out. No need to mess with replacing plastic bushings, right?
In the case of your AirTact, the screws you replaced and put washers under are the stock screws. Flat washers got recommended because every time you cock the rifle you
put pressure on those screws. The actual barrel pivot on the AirTact is actually a bolt in the barrel forks themselves and marked in yellow in the picture. The stock screws both
attach in tapped screw holes in the receiver an inch and a half or so behind and below them, marked in red.
In the case of Sam's 125 and others with the SAS, that barrel pivot screw also doubles as the front stock screw, goes completely across and sits in (or should be) metal washers made to fit inside the stock.
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Well I finally got the first squirrel with this gun. Taken at about eighteen yards with a 25.39gr JSB king. Terminal results were pretty much as expected. The squirrel expired after a single head shot (although I did a follow up shot to make certain). I don’t consider this a real test of the gun’s abilities but it’s a start. Accuracy was excellent with both shots hitting POA. Next, I hope to stretch it’s legs a bit and try some H&N Baracudas.
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I think that'd drop a squirrel!