GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining => Wood Chop Shop (Working with wood) => Topic started by: Ronno6 on July 12, 2021, 09:38:58 AM
-
In my continuing quest to get even color on various wood stocks, I thought I might give dying a try as opposed to staining.
Anyone have experience with using dyes on wood?
-
In my continuing quest to get even color on various wood stocks, I thought I might give dying a try as opposed to staining.
Anyone have experience with using dyes on wood?
I’ve attempted the Keda wood dyes. On a given stock that resulted in blotchiness, and uneven staining; the dye produced a similar result for me…
-
if you get blotchy, try sanding sealer first.
-
Wepster is right. Sanding sealer is just the thing. All woods have different absorption spots. A thin coat of sealer will help even them out.
IMO though, those differences in grain is what makes wood attractive. If you want the same just use a laminate stock.
-
I'll give that another try........
I'm also looking for more flexibility in color, as I am trying to match newly made forearms with factory buttstocks.
-
Here is an article about using rit dye in woodturning.
-
You forgot the link.
I look forward to reading it, because I used Rit dye on a gunstock once, with very good results - and it was easy to use.
-
ooops
https://worldwidewoodturners.org/rit-dye-in-woodturning-by-dane-chandler/
-
I thought I might have a link to the article I read on using Rit dye, but I couldn't find it. The technique I used was recommended for wood that is hard to stain without getting blotches - beech, pine, etc.
The procedure is you use the dye straight from the bottle. No diluting with water or alcohol or anything else. You wipe it on the wood, maybe you let it sit for a little while, and then you start rubbing it off until you get the degree of color you want. I think you dampen your cloth (but not wet!) before wiping it off.
The straight dye is kind of thick so when it goes on, it covers all grain, you just see dye.
It sounds like it might be kind of tricky but it's actually a pretty relaxed process. Just slowly rub with the damp cloth here and there until you have all the wood the same shade. Wipe too much off, you can add more. Wipe too little, just make sure your cloth is damp enough and wipe some more.
Obviously, this is a stain ON the wood, not in the wood. I used Rit brown, but before I started using it I wiped the wood down with some turpentine that I had soaked Alkanet root powder in, which made for a real dark red type of dye. The resulting color I got with that and the brown Rit dye was a nice reddish brown.
I did this on an H&R break-open shotgun. Turns out, I'm pretty sure the wood is maple, and I don't know if that's a problem wood for staining or not, but it looks pretty nice.
I sealed it with Tru-oil, enough to seal the dye but not enough to get a high gloss finish, which I hate.
-
Rather than sanding sealer, Minwax makes a special "conditioner" for evening out blotchiness. It's what we use on our finishes in our architectural millwork facility.
Sanding sealer is just a lacquer (or whatever other base) with more solids in it to fill the grain and speed up leveling. Acting as such, it will actually block the absorption of any stain or dye.
The "conditioner" is much thinner, has really no solids in it, but fills those open pores in certain woods that tend to "grab" the stain more aggressively.
https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner (https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner)
Since we don't use dyes, I cannot advise on how this product will work with such. Apparently it is meant for use with oil based stains.
HTH
;D
-
Rather than sanding sealer, Minwax makes a special "conditioner" for evening out blotchiness. It's what we use on our finishes in our architectural millwork facility.
Sanding sealer is just a lacquer (or whatever other base) with more solids in it to fill the grain and speed up leveling. Acting as such, it will actually block the absorption of any stain or dye.
The "conditioner" is much thinner, has really no solids in it, but fills those open pores in certain woods that tend to "grab" the stain more aggressively.
https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner (https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner)
Since we don't use dyes, I cannot advise on how this product will work with such. Apparently it is meant for use with oil based stains.
HTH
;D
I have used that on new wood.
Some of the problems I am having comes when doing spot repairs.
I can match the stain in some areas, but not all.
Trouble is not getting dark splotches, but rather light spots where the stain
just doesn't seem to penetrate.
-
I use a carrier for the dye if you want an even color. For instance if I wanted to finish a stock that has an uneven absorption rate such as beech I would use an aniline dye that is oil/solvent soluble and mix a little with tru oil and go from there. Each coat will make the project a little darker. If it gets dark enough but needs more depth I use straight tru oil. I use J.B.Mosers dyes which I get from Woodworkers Supply and a little goes a long way. The dyes come in solvent, water or alcohol soluble so you have to match to the finish.
-
I do a lot of spot repairs, and among other things in our trade, it's (sometimes unfortunately) one of my specialties. I hate going back and fixing scratches and scuffs and such that other trades cause after our installation. I say unfortunately because it's a huge PITA to do it right.
Rather than sanding sealer, Minwax makes a special "conditioner" for evening out blotchiness. It's what we use on our finishes in our architectural millwork facility.
Sanding sealer is just a lacquer (or whatever other base) with more solids in it to fill the grain and speed up leveling. Acting as such, it will actually block the absorption of any stain or dye.
The "conditioner" is much thinner, has really no solids in it, but fills those open pores in certain woods that tend to "grab" the stain more aggressively.
https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner (https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner)
Since we don't use dyes, I cannot advise on how this product will work with such. Apparently it is meant for use with oil based stains.
HTH
;D
I have used that on new wood.
Some of the problems I am having comes when doing spot repairs.
I can match the stain in some areas, but not all.
Trouble is not getting dark splotches, but rather light spots where the stain
just doesn't seem to penetrate.
My best method for that is airbrushing a "toner", which is a mix of thinned lacquer and the original stain. I airbrush it on in layers, applying it as necessary until I get a proper looking blend. Then finish the entire area with a clear coat.
That's the only way to do it, as there is that area which may be bare wood and immeditaley next to it is the surrounding area with the original finish. Just applying stain to the bare sanded area will always yield an obvious "splotch".
If your not getting it dark enough it's because the grain is already filled with the previous coating, and therefore not porous enough. That's why you literally have to spray on the toner, which is almost like spraying on a paint. It will never be exactly the same as having to whole thing stripped down to bare wood and starting all over again, but with a bit of talent, you can blend it and make it look passable. I've sometimes had to do some creative masking and create new character lines in the grain of the wood just to make it look more realistic.
I use a quality airbrush - https://www.iwata-airbrush.com/iwata-eclipse-hp-cs.html (https://www.iwata-airbrush.com/iwata-eclipse-hp-cs.html)
Not the most expensive, but still excellent quality and it suits both my woodworking repair, and my personal aircraft modeling needs involving WW2 German camouflage. You will need a regulator to be able to fine tune the pressure between about 15 to 20 lbs.
:D
-
I use a carrier for the dye if you want an even color. For instance if I wanted to finish a stock that has an uneven absorption rate such as beech I would use an aniline dye that is oil/solvent soluble and mix a little with tru oil and go from there. Each coat will make the project a little darker. If it gets dark enough but needs more depth I use straight tru oil. I use J.B.Mosers dyes which I get from Woodworkers Supply and a little goes a long way. The dyes come in solvent, water or alcohol soluble so you have to match to the finish.
Well, there ya go. Another possible solution that I've never tried.
:D
-
I had forgotten about Mohawk products. the furniture repair people I have seen all use Mohawk. A lot of online vendors, including, of course, Amazon.
https://www.mohawk-finishing.com/products/wood-touch-up-repair/touch-up-repair-kits/ (https://www.mohawk-finishing.com/products/wood-touch-up-repair/touch-up-repair-kits/)
-
Ron
I don't know if this has any value or not for Dying/Staining wood,
I had a friend in N .Calif that used to make those laminated gun stocks and pistol grips,
he would use a Food Saver sealer machine and put the wood strips inside these bags,
and pressure seal the wood in. with color he was using, he got a more uniform coloring of the wood etc.
Some of those stocks I seen were Flat OUT, knock you eye out, for color, ( I am color blind),
He offered to make me a rifle stock like that and I failed to take him up on it..............Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
I wish I had now ........ :'(
HTH's
Don
-
Wow! So little to try....so much time...
WAIT..........Reverse that!
Thanks to all so far...
-
some new stuff
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/search#q=osmo&t=product-search-tab&sort=relevancy&layout=card&numberOfResults=25 (https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/search#q=osmo&t=product-search-tab&sort=relevancy&layout=card&numberOfResults=25)
-
Following...I find myself thinking it is about time to remove the black wrap on my R10. There are a few bare rub points (edges really), but my finger residue is weakening the coating. It seems to be going through a polymer failure you see on some plastics, i.e. they start getting sticky. I'll take the opportunity to reshape a few places where I don't care for the current form. Probably Margaritaville for not being one to wipe something down every time I use it, but that's where it stands.
Hah! "Thinking" indeed; I've already started. While trying to clean it last night I found a weak spot and managed to scrape to bare wood, just like that. Turns out that the beech underneath has a good look of its own, though my daughter (interior designers/artist) says it should get a black or similarly dark stain.
-
the link I posted above has an ebony finish, sucessive coats make it darker, so easy to control.
or maybe with the rit dyes, sort of a tie die stock.
just kidding.
although, https://youtu.be/_7W829ilyS4
or https://youtu.be/TG_N1__Ydu8
-
What color you going for? For just dark brown to black you could use ferric nitrate stain. Or black with ebonizing which is tannin (tea bags) and iron acetate (nails dissolved in vinegar).
-
First, I strive to make forearms and match color to various crosman buttstocks.
Second, I have several buttstocks needing spot repairs, and blending color on repaired areas.
Third, on stocks that cannot be spot stained, I need to get uniform color on restaining those stocke, and making matching forearms.
Some Crosman stocks are light tan, some dark brown, and many shades in between.
Then there are some reddish colors, somewhat akin to Daisy colors.
-
Matching for repair is difficult.
-
On particularly porous woods, I have always used either a sanding sealer, or a thinned down urethane before staining.
I have also had good success using the stain/ urethane combinations, if you are not trying for a more "authentic" looking product.
-
On particularly porous woods, I have always used either a sanding sealer, or a thinned down urethane before staining.
I have also had good success using the stain/ urethane combinations, if you are not trying for a more "authentic" looking product.
That's a thought when refinishing the whole stock.
Thanks.
-
the mohawk refinishing kits are made for fixing damage on furniture, so they have stuff for match existing colors.
-
the mohawk refinishing kits are made for fixing damage on furniture, so they have stuff for match existing colors.
I'll check them out...thanks!