GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => Czech & Russian Air Guns => Topic started by: buellm2 on December 16, 2020, 09:15:39 AM
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I've sorta wanted one of these. https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-av-46m-match-air-pistol?m=5257 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-av-46m-match-air-pistol?m=5257) Now I have to decide what I'll get rid of to keep things semi balanced with the wonderful wife.
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Nice find, sir!
I was going to buy a 1701P pistol but this might be a better choice 🤔
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My partner in Kansas has an Original Baikal 46M.
He ordered one of the AV46M.
Due Christmas Eve..
But mine looks just as good...
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The new one is a bit different..
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I noticed it was for sale at Pyramyd, then received email giving 15% off plus free shipping - could'nt resist $90 off + free shipping. 8)
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Let us know if these new ones are as good as the originals.
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The furniture is being made in Sweden.
Probably by the same company that makes the wood for the FX rifles.
Gaylord is working a shakedown.
I think we can agree the only thing that is important is the barrel.
Probably the same company, IMHO.
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Received mine yesterday - beautiful looking gun. Went to shoot the first shot and the breech seals are bad. Sent an email to PA to request replacements. I don’t want to ship it back- and certainly don’t want to pay $30 for replacement seals on a brand new gun.
Gun came in a plain cardboard box with no manual and no spare parts. Included are a couple of front sight posts and rear sight bar (I guess you would call it)- didn’t have time to look close enough to see if they are replacements or different sizes, as I was just rummaging through the otherwise empty box looking for an extra part kit.
The manual is online for anyone looking for one:
https://www.pyramydair.com/air-gunsresources/manuals/AV-46M-owners-manual.pdf (https://www.pyramydair.com/air-gunsresources/manuals/AV-46M-owners-manual.pdf)
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Received mine yesterday - beautiful looking gun. Went to shoot the first shot and the breech seals are bad. Sent an email to PA to request replacements. I don’t want to ship it back- and certainly don’t want to pay $30 for replacement seals on a brand new gun.
Gun came in a plain cardboard box with no manual and no spare parts. Included are a couple of front sight posts and rear sight bar (I guess you would call it)- didn’t have time to look close enough to see if they are replacements or different sizes, as I was just rummaging through the otherwise empty box looking for an extra part kit.
The manual is online for anyone looking for one:
https://www.pyramydair.com/air-guns
Very sorry for your hassles. I have suffered same many times. Just my opinion, I suggest refund and save a little more fora Garman pistol. I had a 46M for a while but is was sooo like a "Utility" pistol. It was accurate and nice trigger BUT I paid $200.00 used market. $600.00 is way to much for this type of kit.
resources/manuals/AV-46M-owners-manual.pdf (https://www.pyramydair.com/air-gunsresources/manuals/AV-46M-owners-manual.pdf)
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Gun came in a plain cardboard box with no manual and no spare parts. Included are a couple of front sight posts and rear sight bar (I guess you would call it)- didn’t have time to look close enough to see if they are replacements or different sizes, as I was just rummaging through the otherwise empty box looking for an extra part kit.
Gavin,
Did you look under the carboard flap? If this box is like the Russian Baikal box, there is a partition that makes the rectangular box more triangular. Under that, there was the sight inserts you describe, plus a full set of replacement seals, and a cleaning rod. With the manual over the top of the pistol.
If it is not too much trouble, could you post pictures showing the muzzle crown and breech end of the barrel? hey seem different to the Baikal pistol.
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Another thought; is it possible that you did not fully latch the breech as shown in image E in the manual, here: https://www.pyramydair.com/air-gunsresources/manuals/AV-46M-owners-manual.pdf (https://www.pyramydair.com/air-gunsresources/manuals/AV-46M-owners-manual.pdf)
You have to push down deliberately to fully latch the breech on my Baikal version of this pistol. It is possible to almost latch it, but without full engagement of the latch - if you don't push far/hard enough.
If you fire the pistol after lowering the breech, but not latching (the storage condition - except for being cocked), then the breech seals have a way of blowing out...
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The box has no extra parts- took it completely apart, just in case it was hiding a secret compartment. I did get a PM from Frank, after also researching on the forum, about the seals and correct positioning. I did have them incorrectly seated when I tried to put them back in.
Unfortunately it’s still a no go for me thus far. It is now down to pellets I’m using - as I’m a lead free basement shooter- using lead free GTO’s (6.79 grain I believe they are), or seals. The gun does seem to dry fire, but it doesn’t seem to be producing much power. Much less than I expected, even rated for shooting 480 FPS according to the product listing.
I will try to get some pictures of the barrel- I have had poor luck posting pictures recently, so I could email them to you if I take a few?
I made sure to have the correct loading procedure for the gun before I’ve shot it. The red dot on top, as best I can tell, is to show you that the gun is loaded- a loaded chamber indicator- as the dot is exposed when you press down the breech all the way, as shown in the manual. When not fully pressed down, you can’t see the dot.
I will have to get a different type of lead free pellet to use- hopefully something will work. I also have to try some additional tips that Frank also PM’d me. Wish me luck!
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Another thing I do with my IZZY??
Just like we were told to do with Sheridan pumpers, I leave air in the chamber when stored.
I fully cock the gun and return the lever to battery.
Then without loading, I lower the bolt and leave it unlatched to protect the breech seals.
When ready to shoot again, I close the bolt and dry fire the pistol.
I suppose you could raise the bolt and insert a pellet and fire it but I have never done that.
The sound of the pistol firing without the pellet tells me it is fully charged.
I know the manual doesn’t state to leave air in the pistol but I think seals last longer when the pistol (or rifle) is pressurized.
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Gavin,
This should not be required, but if it were my pistol, I would add to two four drops of oil to the compression pistol seal. Shown in the online manual. (First see my comment about over oiling reducing pellet velocity below) I use straight mineral oil in mine. Crosman Benjamin pneumatic pistol manuals suggest straight detergent free 30 weight motor oil. My Baikal manual states to use non-solvent "gun oil".
I mention this oil recommendation for those who are reflexive about oil combustion in PCP reservoirs - a valid caution, in that case. With a single stroke pneumatics, the compression is not fast enough to diesel the oil. The pressure is not very high; and the volume of compressed air is a tiny fraction of any PCP air tank.
The manuals do warn not to use solvents; and by inference that would mean don't use CLP. Spray lubes and cleaners containing ether would be much easier to light...
The other thing to do is to lay two sheets of TP over the breech when you shoot with a pellet. If there is a leak, the paper should move. Shooting without a pellet won't stress the breech seal enough to show a leak - unless it is outrageous.
If the assumption is that the breech leaks because the power is low, that may not be the reason. Despite being light, the tin alloy pellets may simply be too tight for your barrel.
If I had your pistol in hand, I would be able to tell if the cocking force was low, indicating a pistol seal leak (perhaps because it is dry), or a very conservatively set compression ratio - adjustable on this pistol. See how its done here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153027.msg155687779#msg155687779 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153027.msg155687779#msg155687779)
How to change piston seal (same preliminary steps required to set the compression): https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153388.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153388.0)
It may be possible that the valve leaks. Other than low power, that would show as power reducing significantly, if you wait a minute after cocking. If that is your suspicion, I would dry fire the pistols 50 times in a row. After applying at least two drops of oil to the piston seal: With the pistol flipped upside down, fully open the cocking lever to draw the piston all the way forwards. Drop oil right on the seal lip that should be visible at the end of the slot.
If you overdo the oiling, the gun will continue to "sneeze" oil for many shots - perhaps 50. During that time the velocity will actually be low due to the extra drag of the pellet wiping oil out of the bore. So, that is another thing you can check: Dry fire the pistol with the muzzle 1/2" from some brown cardboard. If it leaves more than the faintest oil drops, then your pistol may be over oiled. In that case, stand the pistols muzzle up for a few hours. Then dry fire it 25 times, muzzle up, some place you don't mind oil spray landing...
My 46M shoots 7.3 grain H&N Excite wadcutters at 500 FPS. This, after I increased the compression ratio, because it seemed under powered. This does increase the peak cocking force. However, the nature of the cocking mechanism is such that it is very gentle, and does not hurt one's hand, like the P17 tends to do. I do not have tin alloy pellets to try.
Will PM you my email address for pics, in case you struggle with attaching them by using the Attachments and other options function, directly below and to the left of the reply posting window.
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Thank you for the additional feedback and recommendations.
So the latest update...I made up a quick trap to shoot lead into, in my garage. Tried no less than 5 different types of lead pellets with different grain weights. Out of at least 45 attempts to shoot, I had 1 single pellet fire.
There is a decent amount of air coming out of the barrel when I dry fire it, which is encouraging.
So my guess continues to go back to my first thought of the bad breech seals. The tp test as recommended appears to blow the paper slightly. However my eyes are getting tired, so I will re-attempt this hopefully tomorrow. (I also want to make sure I can spare a square lol).
I was able to find in my stash some other lead free pellets that seemed to go into the breech a bit easier - these were some flat nosed Daisy pellets - uncertain gain weight as it’s not on the tin and currently getting too late to search for the exact ones on the interwebs. All of the lead pellets I tried were all were fairly snug like the GTO’s I first tried.
I really want this gun to work. I love the design, and have always wanted the original version. Hoping for a simple fix with the seal replacement and not some other gremlin plaguing the pistol.
However, at the price point, this gun should be ready to run out of the box and also include some spare parts. For that, I am disappointed and frustrated. Hopefully everyone who has ordered one will not have issues. For potential buyers, it is up to you to roll the dice, like any other Airgun that we buy.
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Gavin,
If one lead pellet fired, does it mean the others were stuck in the breech? Something is very wrong.
For that much money, this is something that PA would want fixed; else they have just killed a large percentage potential sales.
I suggest they take another pistol out of the box; verify it works right; ship it to you - before yours has even arrived back at the shop. They can email you a pick-up label to return yours; but if they don't fix this fast, you might lose interest - along with a bunch of other people.
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Gavin emailed me a selection of images. With his permission, I have attached the clearest ones, below. I cropped the images to show just the interesting aspects, and added notations to some.
A very quick observation is that the breech cone has chatter marks all the way around it, that correspond with each land, in angular width. I can see how those facets could allow air to leak past the skirt of a seated pellet, and mimic a poor breech seal.
I suggested that Gavin try deep seating some of the lead pellets that would not shoot at all. By deep, I mean, with the skirt just flush with the inside diameter of the cone.
The breech cone may also have burrs at the ID; although what I am seeing may be lead flakes. Look at the edges of the lands I indicated with arrows in particular - click on the images to enlarge them. If the breech is wavy and constricted, both those conditions would reduce power and result in poor accuracy.
The breech seals look OK. They should seal as intended against the rear face of the barrel and the receiver top (assuming the barrel face is perpendicular). Of course, the degree of compression against the barrel face and at the transfer port can't be judged by these images.
The muzzle crown is what one might call, unusual.
For reference, directly below are the breech and muzzle of my Baikal made MP-46M, out of the box. There are lots of fine circular machine marks, but the rifling is crisp and burr-free:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=153027.0;attach=255478;image)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=153027.0;attach=255476;image)
Click on the attached images below to view enlarged pictures of Gavin's pistol:
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Besides the pistol and the manual, the box should include a set of extra seals, another rear sight blade, cleaning rod and screwdriver...This bad-boy should be on it’s way back to Ohio and I mean right now!
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I sent another email to PA this morning to request a shipping label for return and also requesting a replacement. And that it be tested prior to shipping. If the next one is a dud, I will be looking elsewhere to spend my $.
It’s going back in the box until then.
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What a disappointment!
I was quite ready to get this pistol :(
HW5 sir, I hope you get a good replacement!
I would go for a refund though if it were me.
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Gavin,
Please let us know what PA have to say about your pistol. Also, if they replace it, if that one is right.
Thanks
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I will certainly keep everyone posted on any new developments.
I am also curious to hear other reviews- good or bad, hopefully folks will chime in.
Also, the serial number on mine is #80. (I will double check it, but pretty sure that’s what it is).
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Gavin emailed me a selection of images. With his permission, I have attached the clearest ones, below. I cropped the images to show just the interesting aspects, and added notations to some.
A very quick observation is that the breech cone has chatter marks all the way around it, that correspond with each land, in angular width. I can see how those facets could allow air to leak past the skirt of a seated pellet, and mimic a poor breech seal.
I suggested that Gavin try deep seating some of the lead pellets that would not shoot at all. By deep, I mean, with the skirt just flush with the inside diameter of the cone.
The breech cone may also have burrs at the ID; although what I am seeing may be lead flakes. Look at the edges of the lands I indicated with arrows in particular - click on the images to enlarge them. If the breech is wavy and constricted, both those conditions would reduce power and result in poor accuracy.
The breech seals look OK. They should seal as intended against the rear face of the barrel and the receiver top (assuming the barrel face is perpendicular). Of course, the degree of compression against the barrel face and at the transfer port can't be judged by these images.
The muzzle crown is what one might call, unusual.
For reference, directly below are the breech and muzzle of my Baikal made MP-46M, out of the box. There are lots of fine circular machine marks, but the rifling is crisp and burr-free:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=153027.0;attach=255478;image)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=153027.0;attach=255476;image)
Click on the attached images below to view enlarged pictures of Gavin's pistol:
Just looked at my Izzy.
Looks like yours.
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I will certainly keep everyone posted on any new developments.
I am also curious to hear other reviews- good or bad, hopefully folks will chime in.
Also, the serial number on mine is #80. (I will double check it, but pretty sure that’s what it is).
How did you get that image? This is the best I could get!
(http://)
Where is the serial number located? I just received my AV46 M but didn’t see the serial number. It is not in the same place as the IZH.
Will be checking accuracy and function as soon as the weather allows.
Corky
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What is that screw?
I don’t have a screw on the IZZY..
The serial number on the AV46 is on the right side of the air tube below the word, “precision”.
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Found the serial number......71.
Corky
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Frank,
The screw holds on the front sight blade. Look at the other end...
The breech on yours shows how shooting it has polished the edge of the lands - and that the machining was crisp.
As a general comment to everyone, I went looking for reviews on the new AV pistol. I found only sales talk, about features - no happy or unhappy customer reports. Posted on another forum were just "have you seen this pistol"; as opposed to "I have one".
I just sent pstar on agnation a PM asking about their new AV 46M. Lets see if they reply. Thread here: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/air-venturi-producing-a-new-version-of-the-izh-46/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/air-venturi-producing-a-new-version-of-the-izh-46/)
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I’m on both forums so I can carry on here.
This is the best photo I could get of the breech opening. It’s not good, but doesn’t look like the other photo. I will clean the barrel and at least run a few pellets through it tomorrow but won’t be able to really test it for a while.
Corky
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Thanks Corky,
The most striking difference is that the breech cone is blued - or dark (as is the one used in the AV promotional material). Unlike the problem pistol in this thread, where the metal is bright. Ditto for the original Izhmash and Baikal models.
If the problem pistol started off with a dark breech cone, who recut it, and why? Could it be a customer who tried to "improve it", then sent it back because it would not shoot... The latter rhetorical questions could be answered by seeing if there are lot of bright steel breech cone AV 46Ms out there, or just one...
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“Frank,
The screw holds on the front sight blade. Look at the other end...
The breech on yours shows how shooting it has polished the edge of the lands - and that the machining was crisp.”
Oh yeah. It would help if I read a bit more of the post.
Here is my breech.
A bit dirty:
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A continuing saga!
I did get to shoot a few pellets this morning. Although it was touch and go to start with. After cleaning the barrel it would not fire a 13 gr JSB. Made several attempts, it made the right sounds if I dry fired it but would not launch a pellet.
I checked the seals and it looked bone dry so I gave it four drops of oil and worked the internals a bit. Still no go on the JSB’s. Knowing they were not even close to what I would be shooting I got the Baikal out to retrieve some lighter RWS 7gr wad cutters. Duh, no problem, everything functioned normally.
The AV pumps a little easier than the IZH but that could be two things. Tha AV is still a little dry (will work on that) and the IZH has been tuned by Mach 1.
Won’t comment on the accuracy. I was shooting offhand at 10 yards and not really attempting to hit anything. But, the group was about an inch or so big.
Corky
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Thanks Corky,
The most striking difference is that the breech cone is blued - or dark (as is the one used in the AV promotional material). Unlike the problem pistol in this thread, where the metal is bright. Ditto for the original Izhmash and Baikal models.
If the problem pistol started off with a dark breech cone, who recut it, and why? Could it be a customer who tried to "improve it", then sent it back because it would not shoot... The latter rhetorical questions could be answered by seeing if there are lot of bright steel breech cone AV 46Ms out there, or just one...
The gun was announced and began shipping last week, not enough time for someone to have sent it back. So that would've been done at the factory.
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Hard Air says they have one for review, 000001 serial number.
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/just-in-the-air-venturi-av-46m-match-air-pistol/
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Hard Air says they have one for review, 000001 serial number.
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/just-in-the-air-venturi-av-46m-match-air-pistol/
Tom Gaylord is working on part 2 of his review on PA website.
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My partner in Kansas has a IZH46M.
He has shot it about 50,000 times without a hiccup.
The new AV46 came today and inscribed on the barrel is the warning to read manual before firing.
You guessed it....
No manual.
Extra sight blades and nothing else.
I think these pistols are being shipped in parts to PA and they are being assembled and packaged in Ohio.
He called PA and they are sending him a manual.
I downloaded a copy and sent it to him via text.
The original 46M came with the sights, extra o-rings, screwdriver-type tool and cleaning rod.
I bet those are for sale from PA!!
Anyone???
UPDATE>>>>
Just off of the phone with my friend in Kansas..
He cocked the pistol and loaded a RWS R10.
Squeezed the trigger and pfft.
Cocked the gun and the pellet still in the breach.
Close the bolt and squeeze....pfft
Cock the gun and the pellet still in the breach.
He had to do that exercise four times before the gun finally fired.
I suspect that any oil in the pistol is stuck and needs to be worked into the seals.
I told him to cock and fire the pistol without a pellet while holding the pistol vertically for awhile.
He has pistol #54.
I suspect PA will be getting that one back...
He did say how much he liked the grips and that someone with smallish hands, might not.
Now I will go get my IZZY and touch off about 50..
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Hard Air says they have one for review, 000001 serial number.
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/just-in-the-air-venturi-av-46m-match-air-pistol/
Isn’t HardAirMagazine owned by ......A R C H E R Airguns?
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I called customer service at PA. They referred me to Air Venturi. Waiting for a call back.
I have also contacted Mach 1 in California to see if they will upgrade/work on the AV’s.
Corky
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Air Venturi is the maintenance arm of PA.
Nothing wrong with the originals.
10 shots at 10 yards standing, offhand, open sights.
75 year old eyes.
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I called customer service at PA. They referred me to Air Venturi. Waiting for a call back.
I have also contacted Mach 1 in California to see if they will upgrade/work on the AV’s.
Corky
Thanks for the feedback, Corky. Real pity about your pistol.
A clearer picture of your pistol's breech might help. I would also suggest you close the breech fully with a strip of paper between the seal and the barrel breech (not overlapping the hooked shaped section with the paper). Pull the paper out and see if there is drag on the strip. Then repeat with another strip for the bottom seal.
Yes, I am speculating; either you also have a wavy breech, or the barrel may not be back far enough to compress the breech seal.
Another test for the wavy breech, is to push the pellet perhaps 1 or 2 mm into the breech, so the skirt has engagement just beyond the cone. Shooting it over a chrony may also be helpful - seated normally, and just helped along the way.
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The AV pumps a little easier than the IZH but that could be two things. Tha AV is still a little dry (will work on that) and the IZH has been tuned by Mach 1.
This comment makes me wonder if the AV pistol has its piston set to too low a compression - for the sake of super easy cocking - or just a mistake. With my Baikal MP-46M, I was unhappy that it was shooting closer to 400 FPS than the advertised 500, so I increased the compression via the factory adjustment (have to remove the cocking lever hinge pins to do this).
I got my missing FPS, but the peak cocking force was noticeably higher. Not objectionable, due to the clever mechanism; just probably 25% higher. This makes sense, as you can't get out energy that you have not put in.
In any event, the fact that there appears to be more than one AV pistol with the same glaring problem (pellet won't leave the breech), almost suggest that not only were individual pistols not checked for function at the factory, that that collection of parts in that configuration was not subject to a first-off test on assembly.
One could imagine other possibilities, such as the lube they used has corrupted the piston seal over time (not much time). The faceted breech cone seems like the most obvious cause, as it is not imagined - on at least one of the reluctant pistols.
I wish AV a speedy recovery on this. The 46M is one of my favorite pistols; and it would be a shame for Lazarus to die on the table, as it were.
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My friend in Kansas with #54 says his gun will not shoot R10 wadcutters.
He has to cock and fire four times before they do.
Other wadcutters are ok.
Diablo pellets are ok.
I have an un-founded theory.
I suspect air venturi is importing parts from Russia. Just parts. They are finishing the parts here with engraving, etc. I think the grips are being imported from the FX plant in Sweden..
In this way they can avoid import tariffs and tariff restrictions. Just like importing cars.
Foreign cars are imported rom all over the world and assembled here. The importers avoid import fees and sidestep any import tariffs.
These parts come to Ohio, they are engraved and assembled and sold.
Unfounded but it is my theory.
When I had my first IZZY I had to order some parts from EAA in Florida. On their website they had EVERY part of the IZH46M for sale. Every part.
I think air venturi (PA) is doing what I suggest..
Anybody want to ask them?
BTW here is the barrel maker:
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In addition, I have never seen any Russian manufacturer use Phillips screws.
They use poorly manufactured Stanley screws that our screwdrivers don’t fit very well.
I replaced the grip screws on my IZH46M with Phillips, metric screws.
The grips are not interchangeable with the IZH46M either.
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My friend in Kansas with #54 says his gun will not shoot R10 wadcutters.
He has to cock and fire four times before they do.
Frank,
Could you ask your friend for some clear pictures of the breech cone on his pistol?
Thanks
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He is not too handy but I will ask.
BTW he said no RWS pellets will shoot in his #54.
AA/JSB no sweat.
I suspect the head/skirt has something to do with it.
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“ I replaced the grip screws on my IZH46M with Phillips, metric screws.”
Correction....I replaced my screws with Allen, metric screws..
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OK here are some photos from my friend in Kansas...#54 pistol
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Look at the screw holding the front sight blade in....
No professional builder would do this.
Air Venturi (PA) is a joke!
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I think from the pictures we have found the problem.
Look at the photo of the breech.
Looks like it was cut with a Dremel..
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Compare it to this one:
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My wife, (a South Korean) who has never shot a gun in her life and knows nothing about guns, looked at the two breeches and immediately told me what was wrong.
What a joke!
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I notice that the RWS V10 wadcutter pellet has a very shallow skirt angle - image imbedded below. The skirt diameter I just measured from an open can of V10 pellets is only 4.63 mm. Based on pictures in earlier posts, I speculate that the AV 46M pistol has shallower breech cone than typical - with no secondary chamfer or radius at the very edge.
This suggests that apart from possible chatter at the cone, the way the shallow, "small diameter" RWS pellet skirt engages the steep AV 46M breech cone would have the skirt stop against the edge of the lands. This would leave a significant leak path between the pellet skirt and each groove.
What would make this effect worse, is that the 46M has unusually deep rifling (assumed true for the AV version too). I modeled a RWS V10 pellet and the breech end of the 46M barrel, trying different angles until it "looks right".
Everything looks larger when zoomed in on a screen, but I might have a point. Especially if one factors in rather unimpressive peak pressure the SSP pistols produce...
In my fifth image, I "cut off" the barrel right where the breech cone meets the grove diameter. The pellet skirt can be seen stopped against the edge of the lands, right where the breech cone ends.
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/RWS-2315014_zm2.jpg)
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I think from the pictures we have found the problem.
Look at the photo of the breech.
Looks like it was cut with a Dremel..
Thanks for the pictures, Frank
That ugly looking "breech" is actually the transfer port, at the far end of one of the breech seals:
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=181397.0;attach=341419;image)
The actual breech image (below) does not have obvious chatter, but the cone angle looks shallow and it does not seem very smooth - especially compared to yours. Yours either came with a smaller cone where the skirt engages, or it wore that way from lots of use (second image below):
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=181397.0;attach=341415;image)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=181397.0;attach=341421;image)
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Tom Gaylord's AV 46M seems to work:
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-1/)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-2/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-2/)
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Well, it is not my pistol but if it was it would be in the mail, today!
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Tom Gaylord's AV 46M seems to work:
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-1/)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-2/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-2/)
Tested before being sent for review? Maybe he will trade with me lol
Still waiting to hear back from PA - guessing it’s just because of the holidays. I haven’t had time to call during their business hours because of my work schedule.
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He is not too handy but I will ask.
BTW he said no RWS pellets will shoot in his #54.
AA/JSB no sweat.
I suspect the head/skirt has something to do with it.
This is a quandary!
My AV number 71 will only shoot the RWS? Looks like they can’t even be consistent in their problem. Ha!
No contacts back from my enquirers to AV or Mach 1. It’s the holidays so I’ll give them some time but things aren’t looking too good. I’d really like for this to work out but may have to get in line to get a return code.
Corky
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Just found out that the guns are de-tuned for export out of Russia (and to be clear, they are made and assembled in Russia, not here). And need to have the power restored before shipping. Sadly, for many of these guns that was not done before they began shipping out. But those who have purchased will be contacted by our customer service team and we will get them back and restore the power.
Sorry for the inconvenience. If any one has any further questions, feel free to shoot me a PM.
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Why would the guns be de-tuned for export out of Russia. USA has no power restrictions on air pistols (a few exceptions). Canada does. UK does. Russia does...What is the power limit in Russia?
https://www.airgunbuyer.com/international-airgun-power-levels/ (https://www.airgunbuyer.com/international-airgun-power-levels/)
6fpe..
The IZH46M and AV46 cannot achieve 6fpe....
The IZH46M was imported for years from Russia and was never de-tuned.
Gaylord’s AV46 is putting out 500fps.
Bovine cookies!
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Why would the guns be de-tuned for export out of Russia. USA has no power restrictions on air pistols (a few exceptions). Canada does. UK does. Russia does...What is the power limit in Russia?
https://www.airgunbuyer.com/international-airgun-power-levels/ (https://www.airgunbuyer.com/international-airgun-power-levels/)
6fpe..
The IZH46M and AV46 cannot achieve 6fpe....
The IZH46M was imported for years from Russia and was never de-tuned.
Gaylord’s AV46 is putting out 500fps.
Bovine cookies!
From my understanding they need to be detuned below 3J to clear customs to get out of Russia. IZH may have been a different story since they’re a firearms manufacturer on top of their airgun business. Export permits are likely different for them, been a long time since they were brought in so it’s hard to say.
FWIW, Ataman does the same thing. So it’s not uncommon among airgun manufacturers from Russia.
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Just got a recall notice. I have requested a detailed explanation.
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My partner in Kansas (#54) hasn’t received his notice yet!
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Just got a recall notice. I have requested a detailed explanation.
I had read of that before. Good to know that they are following up on it.
I would send it in.
:D
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But.....
For sale on the AA:
http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=197977&adSort=&StartingAd=0&NumberOfPages=3 (http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=197977&adSort=&StartingAd=0&NumberOfPages=3)
I know this is not the classifieds but, it do look nice..
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Just got a recall notice. I have requested a detailed explanation.
I had read of that before. Good to know that they are following up on it.
I would send it in.
:D
I want to know what is wrong with it and how they propose to fix it. Where did you read about it ?
-
But.....
For sale on the AA:
http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=197977&adSort=&StartingAd=0&NumberOfPages=3 (http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=197977&adSort=&StartingAd=0&NumberOfPages=3)
I know this is not the classifieds but, it do look nice..
Yes, I noticed that this morning.
I think it was discussed in this thread that the original 46M from Baikal is a preferred item.
I've owned one for about 15 years now and have never had an issue with it.
Of course, having the original box and tool would be nice. They also come up occasionally on Gunbroker and eBay.
Make note if they are a 46 or 46M. The 46M has a longer stroke.
:D
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Just got a recall notice. I have requested a detailed explanation.
I had read of that before. Good to know that they are following up on it.
I would send it in.
:D
I want to know what is wrong with it and how they propose to fix it. Where did you read about it ?
I don't recall offhand. It may have been within this very thread.
I think they fit it with a stronger spring, but don't take my word on that.
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Received the email today with a shipping label. Mine is on its way back to PA.
Just got a recall notice. I have requested a detailed explanation.
I had read of that before. Good to know that they are following up on it.
I would send it in.
:D
I want to know what is wrong with it and how they propose to fix it. Where did you read about it ?
I don't recall offhand. It may have been within this very thread.
I think they fit it with a stronger spring, but don't take my word on that.
Spring? This is a single stroke pneumatic. Isn’t that just air compression?
Corky
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Just received my notice as well.
Curious to see how many of these they have sold that need to be sent back.
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I want to know what is wrong with it and how they propose to fix it. Where did you read about it ?
This single stroke pneumatic pistol has the ability to adjust the clearance between the piston and the end of the compression chamber. Air Venturi are going to adjust them so that the piston is just in contact with the end of the cylinder at the end of the charging stroke. This is necessary to get the pistol to shoot at its rated velocity.
Why is this necessary? See quoted text below:
Just found out that the guns are de-tuned for export out of Russia (and to be clear, they are made and assembled in Russia, not here). And need to have the power restored before shipping. Sadly, for many of these guns that was not done before they began shipping out. But those who have purchased will be contacted by our customer service team and we will get them back and restore the power.
Sorry for the inconvenience. If any one has any further questions, feel free to shoot me a PM.
From my understanding they need to be detuned below 3J to clear customs to get out of Russia. IZH may have been a different story since they’re a firearms manufacturer on top of their airgun business. Export permits are likely different for them, been a long time since they were brought in so it’s hard to say.
FWIW, Ataman does the same thing. So it’s not uncommon among airgun manufacturers from Russia.
The Pyramyd Air rep on GTA told us the above. It is echoed here by what appears to be a PA employee as a comment on a user posting, here: www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Air_Venturi_AV_46M_Match_Air_Pistol/5257 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-av-46m-match-air-pistol?m=5257).
Click the link, then click on the Customer reviews tab.
By Val from USA on 2020-12-25
Hello everyone, Air Venturi is taking care of the products that shipped that did not have their power restored. When product is shipped from Russia, normally airguns are detuned to be under 3J to allow for a faster export process. Due to a human error the product got approved for shipping before the power was restored. All customers are being contacted and product will be returned and power restored.
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Received the email today with a shipping label. Mine is on its way back to PA.
Just got a recall notice. I have requested a detailed explanation.
I had read of that before. Good to know that they are following up on it.
I would send it in.
:D
I want to know what is wrong with it and how they propose to fix it. Where did you read about it ?
I don't recall offhand. It may have been within this very thread.
I think they fit it with a stronger spring, but don't take my word on that.
Spring? This is a single stroke pneumatic. Isn’t that just air compression?
Corky
Yep. I plead guilty to being stupid.
:o
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[/quote]
Yep. I plead guilty to being stupid.
:o
[/quote]
It’s not a very exclusive club. Ive been a member for years!
Corky
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Flash sale on AV-46M at Airgun Depot. $479.99 until 13:30 EST. If the review comments were a little more positive, I would immediately take it. Is it worth it? I'm pretty happy with my AV-V10
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Whoops sorry, I just read the fine print and the flash sale was only from 1230 to 1330------Yesterday. At least I no longer have to agonize over making a good decision.
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Whoops sorry, I just read the fine print and the flash sale was only from 1230 to 1330------Yesterday. At least I no longer have to agonize over making a good decision.
I've been mulling over your first query all day long since I read it this morning.
IMO, I think you may have dodged a bullet. and for the following reasons:
The AV-46M is a re-pop of the original Baikal MP 46M.
They have done the same thing with a re-pop of the IZH MP60/61 in the form of the Airventuri AR5 which IMHO falls far short of the original Baikal verions.
Being blessed to own an original Baikal 46M, AND the rifle version of it (MP532), plus several IZH 60/61's (including the steel breech versions) I can only say honestly, that if I did not already own an original Baikal 46M I might be tempted to buy AV46, but again, owning the original of several Baikal, I would stand down from the AV projects.
It's my opinion that AV is attempting to market something that, although assembled on a very solid platform, is somehow falling short. Consider also the fact that they are recalling them for an over-sight upgrade.
Up until last Spring, Krale was still selling the Baikal 46M. Krale was the last known resource (to my knowledge) for those original Baikal's but they stopped listing them around July of this last year.
I dunno. Prehaps AV is really on to something here, and hopefully they will come through and provide the market with a truly outstanding pistol in the form of the original Baikal MP46M.
My first impression though, is that they put a laminated grip (lipstick) on some stock over-run of parts.
The original Baikal MP46M is NOT a pig!!
Get one for a few hundred bucks more if you can, but make sure it is a 46M (not the shorter stroke 46) and try to get one with the box and papers.
$600 for the genuine is a pretty good price FYI.
The originals are FANTASTIC pistols!!
(https://i.postimg.cc/YCPkK8H4/46-M-grips-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3GPZvJr/46-M-grips-2.jpg)
HTH
:D
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Up until last Spring, Krale was still selling the Baikal 46M. Krale was the last known resource (to my knowledge) for those original Baikal's but they stopped listing them around July of this last year.
Click this link, and notice the green "in stock sign" for the original 46M: https://www.krale.shop/us/baikal-mp-46m/ (https://www.krale.shop/us/baikal-mp-46m/)
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Up until last Spring, Krale was still selling the Baikal 46M. Krale was the last known resource (to my knowledge) for those original Baikal's but they stopped listing them around July of this last year.
Click this link, and notice the green "in stock sign" for the original 46M: https://www.krale.shop/us/baikal-mp-46m/ (https://www.krale.shop/us/baikal-mp-46m/)
Well, sure enough!!
Before I posted my last, I looked at Krale just to make sure that I was correct. I only searched for air pistols, and the 46M did not come up.
Do a search on Krales website for MP46M and sure enough there it is!!
Apparently they are still available!!
If I didn't already own one, I would jump on that!!
Far and away better than that AV offering!!
Forget the lipstick laminated grips. Get this one!!
Thank you subscriber for posting that!!
JOY!!! :D
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Up until last Spring, Krale was still selling the Baikal 46M. Krale was the last known resource (to my knowledge) for those original Baikal's but they stopped listing them around July of this last year.
Click this link, and notice the green "in stock sign" for the original 46M: https://www.krale.shop/us/baikal-mp-46m/ (https://www.krale.shop/us/baikal-mp-46m/)
Subscriber
As I said previously, thank you for posting that link!!
Now, if you can find me another Baikal MP532, it would be greatly appreciated!!
;)
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Nice looking one on the AA, too.
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Nice looking one on the AA, too.
Saw that one, as was previously discussed in this thread. But thanks for the reminder.
For the few extra bucks, I'd rather have a brand new one, in the box, and with all the tools, warranty, etc. (Uh yeah - warranty with Krale, right? But you won't need a warranty if you buy that 46M new!!).
I am sooo tempted to buy one for my brother Alan........ ::)
If only I had not already bought something last week. :P
:D
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Now, if you can find me another Baikal MP532, it would be greatly appreciated!!
For sale in India for $1290, unless it is a scam (insist on paypal). It may be old stock, because it is expensive in a poor country: https://www.justhunters.pk/BAIKAL-Airgun-MP-532-SPORTING-4.5-Cal. (https://www.justhunters.pk/BAIKAL-Airgun-MP-532-SPORTING-4.5-Cal.)
Here the user manual to whet your appetited: https://issuu.com/eaacorp/docs/mp-532-manual_9731307933144f (https://issuu.com/eaacorp/docs/mp-532-manual_9731307933144f)
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Now, if you can find me another Baikal MP532, it would be greatly appreciated!!
For sale in India for $1290, unless it is a scam (insist on paypal). It may be old stock, because it is expensive in a poor country: https://www.justhunters.pk/BAIKAL-Airgun-MP-532-SPORTING-4.5-Cal. (https://www.justhunters.pk/BAIKAL-Airgun-MP-532-SPORTING-4.5-Cal.)
Here the user manual to whet your appetited: https://issuu.com/eaacorp/docs/mp-532-manual_9731307933144f (https://issuu.com/eaacorp/docs/mp-532-manual_9731307933144f)
I think I'll pass on that offering. I paid $450 for mine off eBay here in the US about three years ago. Rare chance, and very happy that I lucked onto it.
I buy from some ebay sellers in Russia, and even they say that those rifles are very rare.
I already have that manual, but thanks anyway.
You must have even more time on your hands than I do, LOL!!
Thanks all the same. At least I know what they are worth in India.
Dennis :D
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You must have even more time on your hands than I do, LOL!!
Possibly. I like a challenge. Also, I am supposed to be working, but I don't feel like it. No worries; I don't get paid when I am goofing off...
I would not pay $1000+ for one of these rifles. The manual states they weight over 9 lb. That puts me right off too.
Considering that the rifle version has a barrel extension tube and is very much just the pistol with the cocking lever on the side, I might be tempted to add a stock to my pistol, similar to the image below. I would do it in a reversible way that does not even exchange the stock pistol barrel.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k21/aom22/Baikal%20IZH-46M%20or%20MP-46M/IZH%2046m%20Gazelle/ucizh46gazelle2.jpg)
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You must have even more time on your hands than I do, LOL!!
Possibly. I like a challenge. Also, I am supposed to be working, but I don't feel like it. No worries; I don't get paid when I am goofing off...
I would not pay $1000+ for one of these rifles. The manual states they weight over 9 lb. That puts me right off too.
Considering that the rifle version has a barrel extension tube and is very much just the pistol with the cocking lever on the side, I might be tempted to add a stock to my pistol, similar to the image below. I would do it in a reversible way that does not even exchange the stock pistol barrel.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/k21/aom22/Baikal%20IZH-46M%20or%20MP-46M/IZH%2046m%20Gazelle/ucizh46gazelle2.jpg)
That's very nice, if you can find such a thing.
For me, I would rather have a Rink Formgriffe (https://www.formgriffe.de/en/shpSR.php?sfC=Haemmerli&A=86&p1=400&p2=255) on my pistol such as this.
(https://www.formgriffe.de/u/86aPic1B313152429_zz_FP160-mrb7.jpg)
I have spoken with Thomas Rink, and IIRC his price was around €290 for that grip style, and for an IZH46M. That quote was from about three years ago I believe.
I have a certain attitude about Russian guns, but I'm not sure I can state it here in this forum.
Maybe this will convey it:
Русские пистолеты похожи на своих женщин. Может, не все они такие красивые, но секс УДИВИТЕЛЬНЫЙ.
:D
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I see that the Krale notes “EU countries only”. Will they sell and ship to the USA?
Corky
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I see that the Krales notes “EU countries only”. Will they sell and ship to the USA?
Corky
I'll have to look at that link again, but I've purchased many Weihrauch from them with no problem. In fact, many of us have here in the US.
???
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I see that the Krale notes “EU countries only”. Will they sell and ship to the USA?
Corky
Corky - That "EU countries only" pertains to the taxation.
They do not apply taxes to sales to the US so you should have no worries.
Add about $37 (perhaps a bit more) for shipping and you should be good to go.
At least that's how it went down last time I ordered from them.
You will also have it within four days normally, but the Holiday weekend may delay that.
:D
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Corky,
I have made 5 purchases from Krale. The first was my Baikal MP-46M, two years ago. The most recent was in August this year. Their displayed prices have in each instance been split between US and Europe. The latter have additional taxes, that do not apply to US shipments.
Most recently, Krale spit it website by region. The link I posted has a "us" in it. Compare that to the "nl" home site -below. There, only the higher European price is shown: https://www.krale.shop/nl/baikal-mp-46m/ (https://www.krale.shop/nl/baikal-mp-46m/) . Yet, the system can see one's IP address, so it displays the cost of shipping to the US (for me). The page will probably come up in Dutch...
Two years ago my 46M cost $503, including shipping. The price increase reflect a lower dollar exchange rate; probably due to over two trillion in fiat currency being handed out, to all and sundry; thereby diluting the value of the US$...
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Thanks for the updates. It all sounds good.
What about the import restrictions? I’ve got enough headaches in my life right now without including US customs and the Federal Government!
Corky
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I have never had an issue with orders from Krale regarding US Customs. Even orders direct from Russia - no issues - yet.
I do have a pistol (MP53) in transit from Russia as I type this. Will wait and see on that one.
The only time I had an issue with Customs was when they returned an HW silencer back to the UK. I reordered it and it finally arrived to me.
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Corky,
By watching tracking info, it seems orders from Krale sail through US customs. I believe that if the value is above $800, they start charging duty.
The only delays were at customs in Germany and England. I had my 46M box opened and taped shut with "customs tape" in Germany. Ditto for an HW 95 in England. Don't know if that is a random inspection, since the box is just passing through a hub.
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Tom Gaylords third blog post about this pistol has been posted. The report is positive enough. It is a pity that he did not compare the new pistol side by side to the original 46M:
www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-3/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-3/)
The link above includes a picture of the AV 46M muzzle, after lots of shooting. Is it just me or does it look like the crown was swaged into the barrel? I say that because there appear to be rifling lands and grooves highlighted by the lead dust - below. If so, that would not be my first choice for a crowning process.
(https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/12-31-20-01-46M-front-sight.jpg)
More likely that the above marks are tool chatter, induced by the interaction between the rifling lands and the number of cutter flutes: A less than ideal number of flutes allows the tool to "drop in", to all the rifling grooves, all at once; setting up a vibration. A 5 flute cutter would be better than a 3, 4 or 6 flute cutter, when crowing a 12 groove rifled barrel. There are also milling cutters and reamers available with uneven flute spacing, precisely to minimize such potential for chatter. Perhaps this explains the chatter on the breech cone, shown earlier in this thread.
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Looking at the screw heads, it looks like a monkey put them together.
Back a couple pages you can see the muzzle on my partner’s AV46 in Kansas.
Screw head all bunged up!
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Tom Gaylords third blog post about this pistol has been posted. The report is positive enough. It is a pity that he did not compare the new pistol side by side to the original 46M:
www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-3/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-3/)
The link above includes a picture of the AV 46M muzzle, after lots of shooting. Is it just me or does it look like the crown was swaged into the barrel? I say that because there appear to be rifling lands and grooves highlighted by the lead dust - below. If so, that would not be my first choice for a crowning process.
(https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/12-31-20-01-46M-front-sight.jpg)
More likely that the above marks are tool chatter, induced by the interaction between the rifling lands and the number of cutter flutes: A less than ideal number of flutes allows the tool to "drop in", to all the rifling grooves, all at once; setting up a vibration. A 5 flute cutter would be better than a 3, 4 or 6 flute cutter, when crowing a 12 groove rifled barrel. There are also milling cutters and reamers available with uneven flute spacing, precisely to minimize such potential for chatter. Perhaps this explains the chatter on the breech cone, shown earlier in this thread.
Subs - Thank you for that update. I'll read B.B.'s blog report more thoroughly when I get home later tonight, but I can tell you right now.........., That AV crown is nowhere near the quality of my original Baikal MP46M, and I will post pics to prove it.
What a sad situation that AV is (apparently) attempting to sell a substandard item in the guise of a superb Russian air pistol!
And, one that can still be purchased freely to the US!! (https://www.krale.shop/en/baikal-mp-46m/)
I just don't get what AV is doing with this marketing venture.
Red laminated grips are like red lipstick on their re-pop AV46M pig.
There is no better barrel than a Baikal forged barrel, at least as far as Russian production, and they ARE some of the best!!
Then again, that's just my humble opinion.
???
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Right on target Dennis.
Absolute junk.
PA should be ashamed of themselves and recall/refund immediately.
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I forgot last night to take a pic of my own Baikal 46M muzzle end, so I stole this pic from another site (https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314950).
My pistol is identical.
Quite the difference from the AV version.
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk271/gb6491/IZH46M/a_700x514.jpg)
On that same thread, I found this really interesting method for adjusting the trigger:
(https://i.postimg.cc/pXZNBNDr/IZH-46-M-trigger-adjusting.jpg)
:D
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And...mine:
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From the pictures, the older IZH-46m has a different cocking lever than the one currently for sale at Krale. The AV-46M appears to be the same as Krale's.
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Yes, Alter; my Baikal has a one piece cocking lever, rather than the two pieces riveted together on earlier Izhmash pistols. Is that three rivet pistol a 46 or 46M?
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From the pictures, the older IZH-46m has a different cocking lever than the one currently for sale at Krale. The AV-46M appears to be the same as Krale's.
Good eyes there!! I had not noticed that.
They have obviously done something to change the geometry of the cocking link. I'll have to look into that.
This (finally, some pics) is my own Baikal 46M ca. 2005-ish.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nj5JSLyy/20210103-185929.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3GPZvJr/46-M-grips-2.jpg)
:D
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My 46M has three rivets:
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Yes, Alter; my Baikal has a one piece cocking lever, rather than the two pieces riveted together on earlier Izhmash pistols. Is that three rivet pistol a 46 or 46M?
Was wondering the same thing.
My 46M has the three rivets as seen above.
I'm searching for some 46 (non-M) pics to see if they are any different.
:D
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Another look:
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Yes, Alter; my Baikal has a one piece cocking lever, rather than the two pieces riveted together on earlier Izhmash pistols. Is that three rivet pistol a 46 or 46M?
Was wondering the same thing.
My 46M has the three rivets as seen above.
I'm searching for some 46 (non-M) pics to see if they are any different.
:D
Motorhead has a 46
And the 46 had three rivets and a shorter compression tube..
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46M, same as previously sold by Pyramyd. I just noticed that the one currently sold by Krale has the same appearance as the AV-46M, so it might be the same. The manual at Krale, has the AV logo on it.
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Another look:
Frank - Those lam grips look awesome!!
Where did you get them?
:P
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IZH-46
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IZH-46
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=181397.0;attach=342773;image)
Vielen Dank!!
I also found this showing the differences between the Baikal 46 and 46M.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/11/izh-46m-target-pistol-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/11/izh-46m-target-pistol-part-1/)
:D
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Thanks Alter and Dennis
I am pretty sure the functional inside dimensions are the same for the 46M versions, despite the obvious external differences:
I modeled my Baikal MP-46M in Solidworks to figure out how it works: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153475.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153475.0)
Here is the three rivet model taken apart. I am pretty sure it is identical to my 2+ year old version with the one piece cocking lever: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153388.msg155687765#msg155687765 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153388.msg155687765#msg155687765)
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Thanks Alter and Dennis
I am pretty sure the functional inside dimensions are the same for the 46M versions, despite the obvious external differences:
I modeled my Baikal MP-46M in Solidworks to figure out how it works: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153475.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153475.0)
Here is the three rivet model taken apart. I am pretty sure it is identical to my 2+ year old version with the one piece cocking lever: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153388.msg155687765#msg155687765 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153388.msg155687765#msg155687765)
Thanks Subs,
I have yet to get inside my 46M, nor do I see a need to in the near future, even after 15 years of occasional shooting!!
However, if I ever feel the need to, I know who to contact!!
Nochmals vielen Dank!!
:D
-
Bitte!
-
Bitte!
Oder vielleicht hätte ich angesichts des Themas einer russischen Pistole sagen sollen
«Большое спасибо» !!
:D
-
I think the one Krale is selling may be from the same source as the AV. Aren't the ones from the kalashnikov cartel banned from import ?
-
I think the one Krale is selling may be from the same source as the AV. Aren't the ones from the kalashnikov cartel banned from import ?
Yes. They have been for some years now, which is why the suspicion arises of these new AV's being built from various parts and pieces.
I was totally blindsided by the similarity in the Krale offerings vs. the AV's.
Thank God 7624452 pointed that out.
I literally almost bought one from Krale the other night!!
What was I thinking?? I already have one!!!
::)
-
I think the one Krale is selling may be from the same source as the AV. Aren't the ones from the kalashnikov cartel banned from import ?
The AV pistol maker has been mentioned. Either on this forum, or a PA blog. It is not Baikal or Izhmash.
Importing the Baikal pistol may be banned directly from Russia. It may be banned technically from Holland. Practically, many since mine have arrived in the US without any trouble. Perhaps Baikals are not banned because they are the sporting gun division of Izhmash: https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/IZHMEKH
-
Sneaky and weird: PA have hidden the blog about the original 46M. The link still exists, but has "trashed" as a suffix. If you search for 46M in PA's main search bar, then select blog posts, you get only the AV version. However, if you are in blog posts, and search from there you can still find the "trashed" posts. This is silly marketing strategy, at best...
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/11/__trashed/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/11/__trashed/)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-3/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-3/)
-
I think the one Krale is selling may be from the same source as the AV. Aren't the ones from the kalashnikov cartel banned from import ?
The AV pistol maker has been mentioned. Either on this forum, or a PA blog. It is not Baikal or Izhmash.
Importing the Baikal pistol may be banned directly from Russia. It may be banned technically from Holland. Practically, many since mine have arrived in the US without any trouble. Perhaps Baikals are not banned because they are the sporting gun division of Izhmash: https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/IZHMEKH
Subs - You are too cool for school!
Thank you for that link.
The rumor that I read (somewhere, years ago) was that the reason Baikal airguns were banned from importation was simply that they were made in the same plant as Baikal firearms. Again, that was just what I read.
I don't want to get off-topic here, but there is a certain eBay seller that I have been in frequent contact with. He is located in Baikal and he told me that he used to work in the Baikal plant. He has helped me to find some very hard to find parts for my Russian airguns. Perhaps I will drop him a line and ask what he knows about this topic, however, his English is probably about as good as my Russian, so it may not be so easy.
Anyway, sorry if I got off-topic, but this AV thing is still (to me) a mystery.
до следующего раза, друзья мои,
:D
-
Sneaky and weird: PA have hidden the blog about the original 46M. The link still exists, but has "trashed" as a suffix. If you search for 46M in PA's main search bar, then select blog posts, you get only the AV version. However, if you are in blog posts, and search from there you can still find the "trashed" posts. This is silly marketing strategy, at best...
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/11/__trashed/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/11/__trashed/)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-3/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/12/the-av-46m-single-stroke-pneumatic-match-air-pistol-part-3/)
They don't want people buying the better ones on the used market.
;)
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Stinger177 I have purchased some items from the Russian eBay seller you mentioned. It would be very interesting to see what he has to say about the AV vs IZH models.
The differences between the cocking arms are noticeable but the latest IZH model has the dog leg version. My original has the new lever
My AV is back in Cleveland being worked on. I’m going to hold off making comments about the old vs new until I get mine back and see how it performs.
-
Stinger177 I have purchased some items from the Russian eBay seller you mentioned. It would be very interesting to see what he has to say about the AV vs IZH models.
The differences between the cocking arms are noticeable but the latest IZH model has the dog leg version. My original has the new lever
My AV is back in Cleveland being worked on. I’m going to hold off making comments about the old vs new until I get mine back and see how it performs.
Corky - There are a couple or more Russian sellers, so just to verify, the person's first name (that I'm referring to) is Mikhail. I'll send him an email and see what he knows about this.
It looks to me like both of those guns in your attached pic have the same style lever. (?)
:D
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It looks to me like both of those guns in your attached pic have the same style lever. (?)
They are the same. It is my understanding that the arm was changed for the later models. I don’t know when the change was made. Somewhere I saw that there is a year of manufacture coded in the serial number but I don’t remember where I saw that or what the details were. Duh!
It’s *(&^ to get old. They say your memory is the second thing to go and I can’t remember what the first one is!
Corky
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For the IZH-46M, the first two numbers in the serial number are the year of manufacturer. The “dog leg” charging arm started in 2013.
-
Thanks Nick,
My new style cocking lever 46M has a serial number starting with 18. That is interesting, as I bought it at the end of December 2018, from Krale.
Mine does not have "Izhmash" anywhere on it. The maker is etched as "Baikal".
-
For the IZH-46M, the first two numbers in the serial number are the year of manufacturer. The “dog leg” charging arm started in 2013.
Yes, Thank You Nick!!
I was unaware of the dating code.
:D
-
I had a 2018 from Krale also, and a 2014, both had the new charging levers. The owners manuals have the serial numbers and specific dates of mfg also. Believe I have seen 2013 models with both types of levers. Interesting that
Air Venturi (Alfa Precision) provides no owners manual or date of mfg.
Would like to know what is going on with the AV vs Baikal IZH models. Almost want to buy another from Krale just to see if the date of manufacture is current and what the barrel looks like. Could it be that they are being made by both Baikal and Alfa Precision?
-
For the IZH-46M, the first two numbers in the serial number are the year of manufacturer. The “dog leg” charging arm started in 2013.
Yes, Thank You Nick!!
I was unaware of the dating code.
:D
My IZZY came via EAA Corp.
The serial # is 014xxxxx B
Does that mean 2001?
If so..well preserved.
-
Not related but a special post for Stinger..
He was asking what Steve was doing these days..
-
Frank, yes 2001. Do you have the owners manual that came with the pistol?
-
For the IZH-46M, the first two numbers in the serial number are the year of manufacturer. The “dog leg” charging arm started in 2013.
Yes, Thank You Nick!!
I was unaware of the dating code.
:D
My IZZY came via EAA Corp.
The serial # is 014xxxxx B
Does that mean 2001?
If so..well preserved.
Mine is # 0546xxxx B. Eight numerical digits. I know that I bought it in 2005, so I would say yes, yours is a 2001 model.
:D
Nick, you beat me to it while I was posting.
:D
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So this is a little bit off topic, but check out what Rink Formgriffe is now offering!!
Scroll almost all the way down for the IZH 46M offering.
https://www.formgriffe.de/en/shpSR.php?p1=446&sf=IZH+46M (https://www.formgriffe.de/en/shpSR.php?p1=446&sf=IZH+46M)
And here's a video of how they're made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vse5kFrneUc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vse5kFrneUc)
:D
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Frank, yes 2001. Do you have the owners manual that came with the pistol?
I have a manual and parts.
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Those stocks look very good , Dennis.
I would change out the rear sight blade for one with an aperture, because it is too close to your face. Of course, you could add a dot or scope...
I wonder what the stocks for the 46M cost? Ditto for the Croman PRod.
-
Interesting that your manual has Baikal on it, Frank. Just like mine.
-
This is mine from 2005. It came with a separate slip of documentation showing the serial number and date of manufacturing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3R8Ph6ZW/20210104-173703.jpg)
:D
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Interesting that your manual has Baikal on it, Frank. Just like mine.
I do not think this manual is for my pistol.
I have had three and the number inside the manual does not match the number on my pistol.
Too, the date the manual was signed was in 2014..
-
Those stocks look very good , Dennis.
I would change out the rear sight blade for one with an aperture, because it is too close to your face. Of course, you could add a dot or scope...
I wonder what the stocks for the 46M cost? Ditto for the Croman PRod.
If you watch that video, I think somewhere in there toward the beginning Andi tries to get Thomas to state a price.
:D
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I bought the Crosman stocks from Steve.....$90.00 delivered..
Looks like the Rink shoulder stock starts around 325 euros..
-
I bought the Crosman stocks from Steve.....$90.00 delivered..
Thanks Frank!
:D
-
I bought the Crosman stocks from Steve.....$90.00 delivered..
Thanks Frank!
:D
Looks like the Rink shoulder stock starts around 325 Euros..for the IZH46m
-
Thanks Gents,
325 Euros is a whole DAR, so the $90 (possible) option would be more appealing. Actually, I would be happy with a functional stock cut out of plywood. A perfect project; if only I could focus on one thing and finish it...
Who is Steve?
-
I bought the Crosman stocks from Steve.....$90.00 delivered..
Thanks Frank!
:D
Looks like the Rink shoulder stock starts around 325 Euros..for the IZH46m
I didn't think to try to order one to find the price - DUH!!
I think I'd actually rather have one in Walnut.
:D
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Thanks Gents,
325 Euros is a whole DAR, so the $90 (possible) option would be more appealing. Actually, I would be happy with a functional stock cut out of plywood. A perfect project; if only I could focus on one thing and finish it...
Who is Steve?
Steve Corcoran..
https://www.scstocksandgrips.com/ (https://www.scstocksandgrips.com/)
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Errr.
THe $90.00 was for the Crosman grips.
Check with Steve for the IZZY grips/price.
I do know he wants you to copy your hand with a scanner..
-
BTW...My IZZY has Baikal and Made in Russia engraved on the cocking handle..
-
Thanks for the video, Dennis. Interesting German discussion about the legal aspects of turning a pistol into a rifle. Not a problem for airguns in the US. Definitely a problem for PBs.
-
The only "Branding" on mine are what is etched on the main tube; the only "stampings" are the model and serial number on the left, and the cal, 4,5/.177 on the right.
Nothing at all on the cocking lever.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3GPZvJr/46-M-grips-2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YCPkK8H4/46-M-grips-1.jpg)
:D
-
Thanks Frank.
I figured the full stocks had to cost more than 90 bucks.
Those on Steve's site are amazing.
I think I will have to make my own...
-
Thanks for the video, Dennis. Interesting German discussion about the legal aspects of turning a pistol into a rifle. Not a problem for airguns in the US. Definitely a problem for PBs.
Another video on how he fits and makes grips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5OgAnGg4mc&t=13s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5OgAnGg4mc&t=13s)
:D :D :D
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Dennis,
That guy's ability to blend artistic skill and technology is amazing.
-
Dennis,
That guy's ability to blend artistic skill and technology is amazing.
Indeed!
Scroll down this page to "Our man in charge":
https://www.formgriffe.de/en/shpPfCnt.php?sCI=111 (https://www.formgriffe.de/en/shpPfCnt.php?sCI=111)
:D
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Dennis,
That guy's ability to blend artistic skill and technology is amazing.
Indeed!
Scroll down this page to "Our man in charge":
https://www.formgriffe.de/en/shpPfCnt.php?sCI=111 (https://www.formgriffe.de/en/shpPfCnt.php?sCI=111)
:D
I love the carbine stocks but they are very pricey ;D
The version with an adjustable comb is $500 shipped to the US.
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The version with an adjustable comb is $500 shipped to the US.
After drooling over those stocks and Steve's, I concluded I better make my own, or do without.
If you want to spend a lot of money on a fancy carbine, perhaps the latest Leshiy is a better idea - or not. :)
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I got mine back and it does not work properly, so I am going to refund it. It seems to have been a bit over tuned, very hard to cock and makes a loud (enough to hurt my ear) cracking noise when the lever exits the tube.
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I think the “cracking” noise is normal.
My IZZY has been doing it in excess of 25,000 times..
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I think the “cracking” noise is normal.
My IZZY has been doing it in excess of 25,000 times..
I'm sure there is nothing wrong with your pistol if you have fired it that much, but the noise and difficulty pumping really bothers me. And I have an unknown factor, not a genuine Izhevsk. Goodbye, unknown factor. ;D
-
My 2005 IZZY has a slight clack sound, but it's the forward-most part of the linkage that is releasing, and, it is right at the point where the lever is releasing from the main tube slot, but it is not excessively loud.
Frank, keep in mind that these newer AV46's have a diff linkage than ours, at least regarding mine.
???
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Frank, keep in mind that these newer AV46's have a diff linkage than ours, at least regarding mine.
The AV 46M has the same linkage as my Baikal MP-46M, made mid 2018. Internally, it is the same as pre 2013 models. The only difference is on the outside, where you lever is bolted or riveted to the inner lever. Mine and the AV versions have a one piece lever.
My advice is, don't hold the pistol next to your ear when you open the cocking lever. Fix it yourself, or send it back.
In the other thread, the loud clacking pistol sounds like it is going back for a refund...
-
Some bearing grease cured mine.
-
Frank, keep in mind that these newer AV46's have a diff linkage than ours, at least regarding mine.
The AV 46M has the same linkage as my Baikal MP-46M, made mid 2018. Internally, it is the same as pre 2013 models. The only difference is on the outside, where you lever is bolted or riveted to the inner lever. Mine and the AV versions have a one piece lever.
My advice is, don't hold the pistol next to your ear when you open the cocking lever. Fix it yourself, or send it back.
In the other thread, the loud clacking pistol sounds like it is going back for a refund...
Do you really think I hold it next to my ear when I cock it ?? I do not have the energy to fix it, so it is sitting on the porch waiting for the fedex truck.
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Frank, keep in mind that these newer AV46's have a diff linkage than ours, at least regarding mine.
The AV 46M has the same linkage as my Baikal MP-46M, made mid 2018. Internally, it is the same as pre 2013 models. The only difference is on the outside, where you lever is bolted or riveted to the inner lever. Mine and the AV versions have a one piece lever.
My advice is, don't hold the pistol next to your ear when you open the cocking lever. Fix it yourself, or send it back.
In the other thread, the loud clacking pistol sounds like it is going back for a refund...
Sorry Subs. I forgot that your IZZY was a later model.
:D
Alter - I don't think Subs meant that as a snarky remark, but I did have the same thought. :D
If you are truly dissatisfied, then for sure, return it, and buy a true Baikal IZH 46M.
That AV46 model will filter out on its own, however that turns out. From what I have been reading, I will not be spending my $$$ on one, and P/A should be paying more attention to this issue.
:D
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Do you really think I hold it next to my ear when I cock it ??
Not if it is very loud. I can understand that you failed to see any humor in my post. It was meant to be like the guy who went to the doctor, to complain that his head hurt when he banged it into the table. The doc told him, "well then, stop doing that".
It is a pity that the rest of us could not take a look at your pistol. It sounds like AV screwed up twice.
-
The doc told him, "well then, stop doing that".
That was a Henny Youngman one-liner.
:D
-
The doc told him, "well then, stop doing that".
That was a Henny Youngman one-liner.
:D
That was the guy that held a violin while he was talking back in the '50s. I did not like him. ;D
-
Do you really think I hold it next to my ear when I cock it ??
Not if it is very loud. I can understand that you failed to see any humor in my post. It was meant to be like the guy who went to the doctor, to complain that his head hurt when he banged it into the table. The doc told him, "well then, stop doing that".
It is a pity that the rest of us could not take a look at your pistol. It sounds like AV screwed up twice.
They did screw up twice. My hearing is not normal. I loaned it to the Army many decades ago and they returned it in poor condition. I can hear pretty well, but I hear a loud ringing noise all ther time and some sounds hurt my head.
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Do you really think I hold it next to my ear when I cock it ??
Not if it is very loud. I can understand that you failed to see any humor in my post. It was meant to be like the guy who went to the doctor, to complain that his head hurt when he banged it into the table. The doc told him, "well then, stop doing that".
It is a pity that the rest of us could not take a look at your pistol. It sounds like AV screwed up twice.
They did screw up twice. My hearing is not normal. I loaned it to the Army many decades ago and they returned it in poor condition. I can hear pretty well, but I hear a loud ringing noise all ther time and some sounds hurt my head.
First off, Alter, thank you for your Service to our Country, and I can appreciate the hearing thing.
Although my own hearing issues did not come from combat, they came from industry, even though I wore hearing protection. Sometimes it was just not available (circumstantial), and so I also suffer from that ringing (Tinitus they call it?). I am also uber sensitive to some certain pitches of sound, even off the radio, that just make me cringe. Even some peoples voices.
The doc told him, "well then, stop doing that".
That was a Henny Youngman one-liner.
:D
That was the guy that held a violin while he was talking back in the '50s. I did not like him. ;D
I remember seeing Henny Youngman on the Ed Sullivan Show when I was a kid.
He also had the one-liner "Take my wife,.. please", but you had to hear it in context. He was sort of the predecessor to Rodney Dangerfield.
Oh well, those were those days.
:D
-
Tinnitus it is. Me talking about it causes it to move to the forefront. If I do not think about it for a while it will fade to the background. @Subscriber - I was making a weak attempt at humor myself. 8)
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Alter,
I was wondering if the pop from a 46M muzzle would be uncomfortable for you. My impression is that it is very mild, and not at all sharp - provided you aim it at a 10 meter target, and not at a nearby wall to reflect sound back at you.
-
Alter,
I was wondering if the pop from a 46M muzzle would be uncomfortable for you. My impression is that it is very mild, and not at all sharp - provided you aim it at a 10 meter target, and not at a nearby wall to reflect sound back at you.
Sound in general does not bother me. Only certain tones hurt my ears and the av46m cocking is one of them. does your 46M from Krale have an Izhevsk or a Alpha precision barrell ?
-
does your 46M from Krale have an Izhevsk or a Alpha precision barrell ?
The only references on the pistol and in its user manual are Izhevsk and Baikal. Baikal is the sporting arms division of Izhevsk.
The other side of the comp tube has only the .177 / 4.5 mm caliber designation.
There is no Alpha Precision mentioned anywhere.
-
Alter,
I was wondering if the pop from a 46M muzzle would be uncomfortable for you. My impression is that it is very mild, and not at all sharp - provided you aim it at a 10 meter target, and not at a nearby wall to reflect sound back at you.
Sound in general does not bother me. Only certain tones hurt my ears and the av46m cocking is one of them. does your 46M from Krale have an Izhevsk or a Alpha precision barrell ?
I feel your pain, hearing-wise.
That's a totally different method of serialization than my 2005 IZH 46M.
FWIW - Mine is on the left side of the main (housing, I guess you'd call it?).
(https://i.postimg.cc/52yzHbrh/20210122-190317.jpg)
-
does your 46M from Krale have an Izhevsk or a Alpha precision barrell ?
The only references on the pistol and in its user manual are Izhevsk and Baikal. Baikal is the sporting arms division of Izhevsk.
The other side of the comp tube has only the .177 / 4.5 mm caliber designation.
There is no Alpha Precision mentioned anywhere.
Which photo does the muzzle of your pistol most resemble ?
-
Alter's question is a good one. Is the barrel on the AZH 46M currently available from Krale the classic Izzy barrel or is it like the one on the pistols sold by Pyramyd?
-
Which photo does the muzzle of your pistol most resemble ?
The top muzzle with an even cone angle. Not the bottom one with the deep recess.
-
Alter's question is a good one. Is the barrel on the AZH 46M currently available from Krale the classic Izzy barrel or is it like the one on the pistols sold by Pyramyd?
I am sure my Krale sourced Baikal MP-46M has the IZZY barrel. Both from appearance and because Baikals are made at the Izhmash factory.
-
Alter's question is a good one. Is the barrel on the AZH 46M currently available from Krale the classic Izzy barrel or is it like the one on the pistols sold by Pyramyd?
I am sure my Krale sourced Baikal MP-46M has the IZZY barrel. Both from appearance and because Baikals are made at the Izhmash factory.
The AV-46M is supposed to be manufactured by Alpha Precision. Their web site has nothing but barrels for sale and they do not reply to my email. On 17 July 2014 the Kalashnikov Concern (Izmash, Baikal, and Izhevsky Mekhanichesky Zavod products) were banned from import. https://www.all4shooters.com/en/shooting/law/concern-kalashnikov-izhmash-import-ban-us-department-commerce-sanction/ (https://www.all4shooters.com/en/shooting/law/concern-kalashnikov-izhmash-import-ban-us-department-commerce-sanction/)
Any gun already imported has no restrictions. The manual posted on the Krale web site has Alpha Venturi logos on it. Does anyone have a pistol from Krale that was manufactured 2015 or later ?
-
For what it's worth, this is the muzzle of my Baikal IZH 46M, purchased from AoA in 2005, and it is a 2005 production model.
Notable to me is that it has the convex shaped (tapered) muzzle crown, but also has the more straight sided squared lower area look of the latter sight block as in the lower pic as the OP posted above.
I hope that made sense. ???
(https://i.postimg.cc/Lshd46MJ/IZH-46m-muzzle-crown-cropped.jpg)
:D
-
Alter,
My Krale purchased, Baikal marked, 46M was made in 2018. It does not have the US markings that can clearly be seen on the pistol on Krale's site, here: https://www.krale.shop/us/baikal-mp-46m/ (https://www.krale.shop/us/baikal-mp-46m/)
Yet, on that pistol's flipside are Baikal and Concern Kalisnikov:
(https://www.krale.shop/media/catalog/product/cache/e8f3facdcba8bb7c90a91a6778cdffab/b/a/baikal-mp-46m_1.jpg)
(https://www.krale.shop/media/catalog/product/cache/e8f3facdcba8bb7c90a91a6778cdffab/b/a/baikal-mp-46m_2_1.jpg)
The funny thing is that when you download the manual off the Krale site, here: https://www.krale.shop/media/blfa_files/Baikal_MP-46M_manual_EN.pdf (https://www.krale.shop/media/blfa_files/Baikal_MP-46M_manual_EN.pdf) it is the one Pyramyd Air used when selling in the US before the import restriction.
My Krale pistol lacks the US importer markings, and its manual is different. The manual is in Russian and English, with no Air Venturi references.
The Dutch .nl site has the same pistol and manual as the .us site: https://www.krale.shop/nl/baikal-mp-46m/. (https://www.krale.shop/nl/baikal-mp-46m/.) It has not changed since I bought my 46M in December 2018.
I don't know what else to tell you. If you order the 46M from Krale, you will be getting an Izhmash made pistol, but technically that might seem to be breaking the import ban.
Consider the exact wording of that article at your link:
"Effective July 17th, 2014, the Company is banned from doing business in the United States of America, and American persons or entities are forbidden from doing business with the "Concern Kalashnikov"."
If I buy a 46M from Krale, I am doing business with Krale; not Concern Kalashnikov. So I am not violating what is specifically forbidden. Your mileage may vary.
-
Reading the link provided by Alter further makes buying the 46M from Krale seem like less than a great idea:
However, commercial triangulations (eg. attempting to import "Concern Kalashnikov" or IZHMASH guns on the U.S. market through a third Country exporter) may be punishable by the U.S. Government as an attempt to circumvent the sanctions.
-
To me, it is now apparent that the AV46 (or even the Krale import?) is an attempt to sell an item that was once of very good quality, but now, in order to import it, has been bastardized with replacement parts.
Anyway, IMO, this is the best model to own: https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/11/__trashed/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/11/__trashed/) : As always, with Tom Gaylord, we have to start with Part 3 to get to Part 1 of his complete blog.
Even though Tom Gaylord apparently can't shoot it, IMO, it is the best model/version (or perhaps I say that because that's the model that I own, and I'm trying to justify it. ;) ).
I'm still seeking some clarity on this AV46 thing.
???
And, don't we wish these were the days? https://www.amazon.com/IZH-46M-Match-Pistol-pistol/dp/B001BS2EZE/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 (https://www.amazon.com/IZH-46M-Match-Pistol-pistol/dp/B001BS2EZE/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8)
:D
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I'm giving up on getting a new one. Too much smoke and too many mirrors. I'll keep an eye out for a used one. Thanks Stinger177 and subscriber for your expert input. ;D
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I'll keep an eye out for a used one.
Here is a possibility for $400: https://www.ebay.com/itm/BAIKAL-MP-46M-IZH-46-Match-Air-Pistol-177-Excellent-Condition/114650607099?hash=item1ab1b56dfb:g:yXEAAOSwNM9gD2ly (https://www.ebay.com/itm/BAIKAL-MP-46M-IZH-46-Match-Air-Pistol-177-Excellent-Condition/114650607099?hash=item1ab1b56dfb:g:yXEAAOSwNM9gD2ly)
It allows and offer, or a bid. Make an offer...
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/BAIKAL-MP-46M-IZH-46-Match-Air-Pistol-Excellent-Comes-with-all-accessories/114654261621?hash=item1ab1ed3175:g:tVwAAOSwLYBgEhw7 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/BAIKAL-MP-46M-IZH-46-Match-Air-Pistol-Excellent-Comes-with-all-accessories/114654261621?hash=item1ab1ed3175:g:tVwAAOSwLYBgEhw7)
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So #80 came back from its trip to be adjusted about a week or so ago. I haven’t had time to post any updates because, well, life is busy.
I had asked them to look at the suspected breech issue (chatter) but nothing was noted. I did get a manual.
After some testing, about 50 rounds, the only pellet I can get to consistently shoot is the lead free daisy pellets I believe I mentioned earlier in this thread. I have several other lead free pellets on hand now and some H&N match green wad cutters (5.25 grain) shoot only after I cock the gun, fire it with no pellet discharge, cock it again- then it will fire. Clearly even with the power adjustment this gun is not right. I’m guessing with the suspected chatter, the breech is not sealing like it should. I did mention earlier in the thread, I’m a lead free basement shooter. I have no interest in a gun that cannot shoot lead free consistently and gives decent group sizes for the distances I’m shooting.
The daisy pellets are giving me about an inch (or so) group at 20 feet (or so). Not acceptable for me- that is using a dot sight mounted on the gun, and using a rest.
I will be contacting PA again to try an exchange. If that replacement doesn’t fly, I’m done with the AV46M and onto an original. I like the look of this model, with the red grip.
For this price point, this gun should more than deliver on expectations.
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Gavin,
That is a real bummer. Getting a working replacement, or a used original (like the link two posts up) is a good plan.
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I finally picked up an IZH 46 M (not the AV). The 46m just does not hang right in my hand compared to my Air Venturi V10 which naturally points almost perfectly for me. That grip is rather funky and I can see I'll be doing some work on it. I think I'll have to make a new grip shelf but that should be easy. The trigger is awesome, much nicer than the V 10. It's certainly more accurate than I am but so is the V10. I've always liked front heavy target pistols so that's another plus. It'll take a while to figure out how much or if it will actually improve my scores. I like the weird appearance of the 46M vs the more conventional look of the V 10.
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Congrats on your 46M. You will come to love it.
Comparing a 46M to a V10 is like apples to fish.
The original grip on the 46M is crude by intent. It is oversized to be custom fitted to your own hand at your own discretion.
It is extremely accurate, almost to an Olympic level for it's time period of production.
I have my trigger adjusted to a 0.46oz. level, and that is not a typo. Although way to light for ISSF parameters, it is still a safe level, even without a safety.
:D
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I just received a new catalog from Pyramyd today. They are still selling the 46M. Is it still the same problematic pistol?
Can the real Baikal 46M still be ordered from Krale? Anyone done this recently? (It isn't in stock right now, but is it orderable?)
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Bruce,
I bought a Baikal 46M from Krale 2.5 years ago. I know of a few after that. The last airgun I bought from Krale was about a year ago.
You can email Krale about availability, here: info@krale.shop
As for the PA version; in theory these are OK after the compression is reset to spec. There are members here that have both the AV and Baikal/IZZY versions. Their opinions would be most valuable.
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Signed up for an email from Krale when the Baikal-46M's are back in stock. Did this once before and they did email me. But the timing was bad, and funds weren't available. Stinks when that happens. :( Hope the wait isn't too long.
Gee, they are getting pricey. (Still cheaper then the 46M from Pyramyd, so that's not too bad.)
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I have a classified 46M on order. But reading the topic, though it is not fully clear to me on what is the issue then with the 46M.
The one I have on order has the Baikal brand on the left side of the tube, next to that the model name and then it has a section there that says Importer: Air Venturi.
So should that be a good one then ? or what can be the potential challenge ?
Thanks !
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Rudy,
What you described is the proper Russian "IZZY", as imported by Air Venturi ten or more years ago. A pistol that has Air Venturi markings, but not also "Baikal" or "Izhmash" would be the recent ones that have not worked properly, right out of the box.
The pistol you are looking to buy might need new seals, starting with the breech seals (very easily replaced). If you have seen a picture of the Baikal name on that pistol and know it is not a picture of another pistol, you should be good to go. Assuming the pistol has not been abused.
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Great stuff then ! Thanks, appreciate your feedback.
I trust the seller, he even shared proactively his cell phone number for sharing all the details and pictures.
From the pictures I can see that this particular 46M is really as new. According to the seller it was more like a collectors item for him, rather then that he has ever shot with it.
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Jolly good, Rudy
Perhaps a few drops of oil on the piston seal and cocking hinges and cam, and you are off to the races!
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I just saw this great bargain. ;D
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:)
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Replying to a an old thread. I thought with the current situation I would go ahead and pick up a 46M while they are still available. Mine came in from Pyramid today, and I lubed the breech seals with a little silicone, and pivots on cocking mechanism with some mobil 1 and went out to try it before it got too warm. I'm impressed right out of the box. Using a rest and shooting at a 50 foot pistol target at 10 meters, using a 6 o'clock hold it was right at the top of the black, so a bit of down adjustment. I did not want to go to the trouble of setting up a spotting scope so just shot two shot groups between adjustments an got it to the center of the bull. My eyes are not the best, but I was getting one ragged hole groups for the most part. I did order a trigger upgrade, strange that if you order and add yourself it's $30, and installed by Pyramid or the factory it was I think $70 more, so no brainer. I like the way it pivots to fit the finger, reminds me of my FWB 300. I may end up doing a little modification on the grip, mostly rounding some of the sharper corners, and possibly the bottom edge of the trigger guard which seems a little sharp. I hate to go filing on the metal, but suppose a dab of touch up blue will take care of that. I need to figure out how to remove the grip before doing anything as I do not wish to get any wood shavings or sawdust in the trigger.
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Yea .. just seeing this thread for the first time. yes as Frank has mentioned i have had an original BAIKAL 46 for years now. The FONT that precedes the serial # is RUSSIAN with caricature I can't read :o
Cocking arm is straight past contact point forward of trigger guard. Crown at muzzle a deep cone, smooth and chatterless. Also imported via EAA Corp Cocoa, FL Have original box, spares, different sight blades, tools, instructions ( 1 in USA text 1 in Russian text ), cleaning jag rod. Thanks to frank a few years ago, added a scope rail for a red dot sight, very slightly massaged corners of grips lower shelf for my big paws and installed a MAC 1 updated valve kit.
Russian Manual dated 1991 / certification dated 1998
Pistol has been shot some, shoots fine still and @ 99% cosmetically perfect. Pretty much a safe queen now dayz.
Scott S
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Scott,
The next time I come to visit the IZZY is coming too.
We can shoot some..
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I just saw this great bargain. ;D
I actually bought this pistol. I suppose the original high price was a mistake. It was re-listed and I got it for a reasonable price. Works perfectly and I have not had any problems with it. It is currently my favorite pistol.
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WOW ... low serial # on that one !!
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Graphic illustrations of objects posted on this forum may not be exactly as they appear. ;D
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Lol ... claiming hey thats MY air gun by serial # .... Good luck with that !
But yes ... noted ;)
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I have been shooting my AV 46M a little. Probably around 100-120 shots now, basically going out in the morning before it gets too warm. Off a rest if I do my part it's giving ragged one hole groups. I'm slowly getting used to that light trigger. So far performance has been flawless. Offhand so far, I'm doing pretty good on hanging soda cans, but it could be better, I need to develope some more strength in my arm so I can hold it steadier.
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Lol ... claiming hey thats MY air gun by serial # .... Good luck with that !
But yes ... noted ;)
I do not understand your remark. Can you be more explicit ?
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Lol ... claiming hey thats MY air gun by serial # .... Good luck with that !
But yes ... noted ;)
I do not understand your remark. Can you be more explicit ?
Based on PART of your published picture ( Serial number ) has been edited away.
My remark a sarcasm of HEY that's my gun ( stolen gun ) based on a whole serial number being shown as others may have done / do.
I digress ... ones Witt lost in translation :P
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Lol ... claiming hey thats MY air gun by serial # .... Good luck with that !
But yes ... noted ;)
I do not understand your remark. Can you be more explicit ?
Based on PART of your published picture ( Serial number ) has been edited away.
My remark a sarcasm of HEY that's my gun ( stolen gun ) based on a whole serial number being shown as others may have done / do.
I digress ... ones Witt lost in translation :P
I still do not understand the remark, but sarcasm is fine. I am not in the habit of arbitrarily posting unneeded information. Here's the other side of my pistol. 8)
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To us in America .. such Witt is just light humor and harmless. We're still missing a common connection half a world away we can still have a chuckle.
No disrespect intended.
Scott
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To us in America .. such Witt is just light humor and harmless. We're still missing a common connection half a world away we can still have a chuckle.
No disrespect intended.
Scott
OK, I'll play. Is the Witt a person or an object ? ???
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Is the izh46m just as accurate as the AV46m? I'm considering one of these. I found a Canadian online site selling the non AV version.
Doesn't have the Laminated stock, but otherwise, it looks the same.
Thanks
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Is the izh46m just as accurate as the AV46m? I'm considering one of these. I found a Canadian online site selling the non AV version.
Doesn't have the Laminated stock, but otherwise, it looks the same.
Thanks
Yes, I prefer the beech grips vs the laminated. I have a laminated and it delaminated/in two places.
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Steve Corcoran still makes wood for the IZZY:
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Is the izh46m just as accurate as the AV46m? I'm considering one of these. I found a Canadian online site selling the non AV version.
Doesn't have the Laminated stock, but otherwise, it looks the same.
Thanks
The IZH or Baikal versions are preferred over the AV version, except for warrantee. Unless the shop offers a warrantee for arriving broken on delivery, you are on your own with the original version. Other than a crushed, rained on, or empty box I don't know of any new but defective IZH or Baikal 46M pistols. I bought one a few years back from Krale, despite the no warranty situation. Used may be a different story, with the breech seals going flat from having the breech fully latched shut in storage. Else, a bit of lube in the right places, and off you go.