GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Lt. Dan on January 14, 2019, 06:40:22 PM
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I was wondering if there is a trigger upgrade or fix for the Ruger Airhawk Elite II .
I bought one of the refurbished rifles from Sportsman's Guide and the rifle is a joy to shoot but the trigger, well let's just say the trigger is bad...hopefully it will improve with use.
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Watching this. Inexpensive but shoots decently, except for the terrible trigger. Can't figure out how to remove the trigger group from the gun. Have had it apart but it's a different trigger from the impact max and doesn't come out.
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Moved to the Asian gate. You will hopefully get some answers here.
Harry
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Sorry for silly question. I thought Umarex was a German company with a factory based in the US. Is this gate appropriate because, like many other companies, much of their actual production now comes from China?
I have no bias for manufacturing location, only product function and cost (to me) :-)
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I've reworked my trigger. It is better (for me) but still too heavy. Estimating over 6 lb?
I will eventually post full mods with photos, but have not had time to document yet. Also, still working on making it "better".
Some of my terminology may be incorrect. Sorry, but I'm still learning also. Let's see if a plain text description helps?
The rear stock "stud" (male threads into end plug, female threads for rear stock screw, and locks trigger group in place) is a LEFT-HAND thread into the end plug. Mine turns RIGHT to loosen!
Once removed, the trigger group comes out easily. No need for further disassembly or a spring compressor.
I'm calling this a ONE stage trigger.
Remove the trigger blade pin CAREFULLY. There is a "fake" first stage coil spring in the trigger blade. On my trigger, this is where all the CRUNCHINESS came from. I removed the spring, but that allows the trigger blade to flop around in what was the fake first stage take-up range.
There is a screw hole in front of the trigger blade which is empty. I took a small 2.5mm x 5mm screw from an old Crosman trigger and it threaded into that hole perfectly, but did not stick out the other side to take up any fake first stage slack. A longer screw was TOO LONG, so I carefully filed the plastic trigger blade under that screw HEAD until the 5mm screw stuck out the other side about 1mm when fully seated.
The rear adjustment screw supposedly provides preload on the intermediate sear and reduces primary sear engagement, i.e. "shortens the fake second stage". However, that screw cannot seat DEEP enough to actually do ANYTHING! The head bottoms out on an angled portion of the trigger blade long before the screw can do its thing.
I filed this area of the plastic trigger blade FLAT plus a little extra so the screw could be turned all the way in with the head flat to the plastic trigger blade. This allowed the screw to stick out the other side about 2mm which is enough to put TOO MUCH preload on the intermediate sear.
That screw was also POINTED and SCRAPED (Argh!) along the intermediate sear lever. I removed the screw and round polished the end, which also removed some length and made the final adjustment range almost ideal.
I polished all the sear contact points and added a thin coating of moly paste.
Reassembled with both screws flush on the INSIDE surface of the trigger blade as a starting point. I found on MY RIFLE that I could turn the front screw all the way in until it bottomed out. That would take up all the fake first stage slack and still allow the SAFETY to properly engage. If the front screw is too long or too far "in", the safety WON'T work.
Then I started turning in the rear screw to get SOME preload on the intermediate sear, i.e. "shorten the trigger travel". If I go all the way in, the sear overlap is VERY small and the trigger travel to release is SCARY SHORT. I have to back out the rear screw ~1.5 turns to get what I feel is a reasonably safe trigger.
Trigger is now a REAL single stage, VERY SMOOTH, comfortably short, and predictable. It is also still TOO HARD!
I'm about 98% certain this is due to the HEAVY primary sear spring. I believe I can hand wind a new custom (torsion) spring that will drop the trigger weight down into the 2-3 lb range and still safely/reliably engage the piston. I have already acquired assorted music (spring) wire and will attempt this in a couple weeks.
Sorry I don't have any photos at this time.
Word of caution... PLEASE be very careful whenever you attempt ANY type of trigger work!
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Do a search for "TO5" trigger. Your gun should have a chinese copy of that trigger (RWS) if it's the same as a Ruger Air Hawk. A little tweaking and adjustment should please you.
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Not even close. Many who don't actually have this rifle in hand say that. Like that Beeman mystery trigger, this is one of those mystery Frankenstein triggers with bits and pieces much closer to, but not quite like, an older Crosman/Gamo trigger. I'm calling it a mutant Crosman trigger for now.
It would be AWESOME if this trigger was anywhere NEAR as nice as the TO5 :-)
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Can you post a photo ?
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Sorry no photos yet. Please forgive my crude sketch, but it's the best I can provide for now.
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I've reworked my trigger. It is better (for me) but still too heavy. Estimating over 6 lb?
I will eventually post full mods with photos, but have not had time to document yet. Also, still working on making it "better".
Some of my terminology may be incorrect. Sorry, but I'm still learning also. Let's see if a plain text description helps?
The rear stock "stud" (male threads into end plug, female threads for rear stock screw, and locks trigger group in place) is a LEFT-HAND thread into the end plug. Mine turns RIGHT to loosen!
Once removed, the trigger group comes out easily. No need for further disassembly or a spring compressor.
I'm calling this a ONE stage trigger.
Remove the trigger blade pin CAREFULLY. There is a "fake" first stage coil spring in the trigger blade. On my trigger, this is where all the CRUNCHINESS came from. I removed the spring, but that allows the trigger blade to flop around in what was the fake first stage take-up range.
There is a screw hole in front of the trigger blade which is empty. I took a small 2.5mm x 5mm screw from an old Crosman trigger and it threaded into that hole perfectly, but did not stick out the other side to take up any fake first stage slack. A longer screw was TOO LONG, so I carefully filed the plastic trigger blade under that screw HEAD until the 5mm screw stuck out the other side about 1mm when fully seated.
The rear adjustment screw supposedly provides preload on the intermediate sear and reduces primary sear engagement, i.e. "shortens the fake second stage". However, that screw cannot seat DEEP enough to actually do ANYTHING! The head bottoms out on an angled portion of the trigger blade long before the screw can do its thing.
I filed this area of the plastic trigger blade FLAT plus a little extra so the screw could be turned all the way in with the head flat to the plastic trigger blade. This allowed the screw to stick out the other side about 2mm which is enough to put TOO MUCH preload on the intermediate sear.
That screw was also POINTED and SCRAPED (Argh!) along the intermediate sear lever. I removed the screw and round polished the end, which also removed some length and made the final adjustment range almost ideal.
I polished all the sear contact points and added a thin coating of moly paste.
Reassembled with both screws flush on the INSIDE surface of the trigger blade as a starting point. I found on MY RIFLE that I could turn the front screw all the way in until it bottomed out. That would take up all the fake first stage slack and still allow the SAFETY to properly engage. If the front screw is too long or too far "in", the safety WON'T work.
Then I started turning in the rear screw to get SOME preload on the intermediate sear, i.e. "shorten the trigger travel". If I go all the way in, the sear overlap is VERY small and the trigger travel to release is SCARY SHORT. I have to back out the rear screw ~1.5 turns to get what I feel is a reasonably safe trigger.
Trigger is now a REAL single stage, VERY SMOOTH, comfortably short, and predictable. It is also still TOO HARD!
I'm about 98% certain this is due to the HEAVY primary sear spring. I believe I can hand wind a new custom (torsion) spring that will drop the trigger weight down into the 2-3 lb range and still safely/reliably engage the piston. I have already acquired assorted music (spring) wire and will attempt this in a couple weeks.
Sorry I don't have any photos at this time.
Word of caution... PLEASE be very careful whenever you attempt ANY type of trigger work!
I'm very impressed with your work so far. If I had pictures I might even attempt this myself. After work today I'm going to re-read this to get a better grasp of what modifications you made. Thanks again and please keep us informed of any future pictures or tweaks you preform.
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Thanks! Great info. No wonder I couldn't remove the trigger group... It's a left hand thread and I was trying like heck to turn it like a normal screw. Also nice to know I don't have to put it in my spring compressor to get it out of there. I was doing that just in case. Will try it this weekend.
I lightened the safety by grinding down in the bump that the wire spring slides over to engage /disengage. It can be done by a finger flick now instead of having to push on it with your thumb.
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Thanks! Great info. No wonder I couldn't remove the trigger group... It's a left hand thread and I was trying like heck to turn it like a normal screw. Also nice to know I don't have to put it in my spring compressor to get it out of there. I was doing that just in case. Will try it this weekend.
I lightened the safety by grinding down in the bump that the wire spring slides over to engage /disengage. It can be done by a finger flick now instead of having to push on it with your thumb.
I also lightened the safety by "grinding the bump" based on YOUR suggestion in the other thread! MUCH better...Thank YOU! :-)
What is puzzling to me is the mods above helped smooth out the trigger action but only marginally reduced the trigger pull force. Actually the force may not have changed, but since the stuttery-crunchiness is gone it "feels" a little lighter to me. I may need to invest in a good trigger pull scale.
I recently resurrected/repaired a badly abused Swiss Arms Tac-1 which has a similar trigger group, just a bit closer to the old Crosman design. I polished sear points, moly'ed, and adjusted THAT trigger using only a slightly longer rear screw. The Tac-1 trigger is now buttery smooth with a crisp clean break around 1.5 lbs.
This needs more investigative work. Hoping to have some time this weekend.
I'm still thinking the heavy pull must be due to heavier sear springs in the AirHawk Elite 2. I don't think those springs need to be THAT firm.
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Michael, I think I figured out where some of the crunchiness is coming from. The primary sear (the one that engages the hammer) actually is designed to have lateral motion. Notice that the rear hole is actually a short slot that allows it to slide rearward on cocking. That pin is brass (or bronze?). When the hammer comes back during cocking, it pushes that primary sear back slightly in the slot. That allows it to drop down and engage the hammer and also engage the intermediate sear so that it stays cocked. Not sure if that makes sense. It's kind of like it cocks on two surfaces - the hammer and the primary-intermediate sear contact point.
In any event, the inside of that slot is very rough. I polished the slot and also the brass/bronze pin that rides in there and the action is quite smooth now. Unfortunately, I did something wrong re-assembling and it doesn't cock at the moment - just comes to a hard stop and goes no further. Not sure what I did wrong on re-assembly. Have to take it apart this weekend and try to figure that out.
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Michael,
Figured out why mine wasn't cocking - need to lift the sear so its leading edge nub sits on the receiver tube when reassembling. Anyway, it's back together now and very smooth. No first stage at all but a very tiny bit of roll before it lets loose. I put in a longer rear trigger screw and can definitely turn it into a hair trigger if you go too far. Trigger is very usable, not gritty or crunchy, breaks reliably at 2lbs 12oz. Pretty happy with it at this point - I paid $53 for mine and that makes it a solid deal.
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Michael, I think I figured out where some of the crunchiness is coming from. The primary sear (the one that engages the hammer) actually is designed to have lateral motion. Notice that the rear hole is actually a short slot that allows it to slide rearward on cocking. That pin is brass (or bronze?). When the hammer comes back during cocking, it pushes that primary sear back slightly in the slot. That allows it to drop down and engage the hammer and also engage the intermediate sear so that it stays cocked. Not sure if that makes sense. It's kind of like it cocks on two surfaces - the hammer and the primary-intermediate sear contact point.
In any event, the inside of that slot is very rough. I polished the slot and also the brass/bronze pin that rides in there and the action is quite smooth now. Unfortunately, I did something wrong re-assembling and it doesn't cock at the moment - just comes to a hard stop and goes no further. Not sure what I did wrong on re-assembly. Have to take it apart this weekend and try to figure that out.
Based on your description I think the primary sear may not be seated correctly. It WANTS to jump inside the compression tube when you install the trigger group and you almost need three hands to guide it into the correct position while sliding the trigger group into place. If it is installed incorrectly, the piston will never be able to get around it to the latch position.
You can carefully polish and lube the areas where the piston lip contacts the primary sear during cocking. This can smooth out the part of cocking cycle when the piston pushes on the primary sear during final latch-up. It's not a big difference in most rifles, but sometimes many small changes lead to a much more pleasant shooting rifle.
I usually don't mind a little cruchiness when "cocking" a springer. Most often it is due to an anti-bear-trap linkage or an auto-safety linkage, or both. If it really bothers me and I can't smooth it out with a little polishing and moly paste, I may remove those links.
When I'm doing a lot of testing and trigger mods, it can be very useful to be able to manually de-cock a rifle. I accept the risk for myself only. On rifles that I may take hunting or let other people use, those safety features are ALWAYS INTACT.
The crunchiness I had was in the trigger blade. That coil spring was scraping/stuttering along the intermediate sear lever and it REALLY annoyed me! That's why I made the changes listed above.
I put together a little trigger animation (not measured or to scale) based on my memory of how the Ruger Air Hawk Elite 2 trigger functions. I thinks this is the same basic operation of older Crosman and Gamo triggers, and probably MANY others as well.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1daQO9NX3Wq5_qPVQU5kFKZPnuaAv6hy-
Hope you get that rifle back to normal operation :-) ...... edit.... cross posted! Glad you got it working with a decent trigger!
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what an awesome gif - very clear. i'll keep that one for reference! thx.
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Was shooting mine again last night to test different pellets. The trigger may not be as hard as I posted above. The estimated 6 lbs may be more like 3-4 lbs? Need to get a trigger scale.
I do like the short crisp trigger action after adjustment and the "weight" does not seem to hurt the rifles accuracy.
POI does shift quite a bit between Dasiy wad cutters, Winchester round nose (the old 9.8 grain ones made in China, not the new 7.8 grain ones made in Spain), Daisy hollow points, Crosman Premier Piranhas (10.6 grain), and the WINNER-WINNER-CHICKEN-DINNER pellets for accuracy in my specific rifle, the Benjamin Hollow Points in the 750 count tin. This rifle really likes them and consistently groups 10-20 shots at 30' into a 1/2"ragged hole.
I removed the included scope for all the recent mod work, so the pellet testing was done using open-sights. IMO this is an underrated gas spring break barrel and the refurb version for around $50 makes it an excellent "project" rifle. I HAD a plan to get a B1-x project rifle, but this Ruger "shot" that plan with its gas spring, more power, better overall quality, a scope bigger than a soda straw, and a price cheaper than any new B1-x's I can find ;)
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Update...
The 2 front stock screws are normal right-hand thread (righty-tighty, lefty-loosey) so counterclockwise to remove. Use #2 Phillips.
The rear most stock screw is also normal right-hand thread so counterclockwise to remove it. Use #3 Phillips.
Once those 3 screws are removed, the action should come out of the stock.
Slide off the picatinny rail plastic section.
The rear stock screw threaded into another bolt/stud that locks the trigger group and end plug to the compression tube. This bolt/stud just behind the trigger group has a left-hand thread on my Ruger Air Hawk Elite 2. I have to turn it clockwise to loosen and remove it. That is opposite to most common threaded fasteners.
Once you remove that stud/bolt, the trigger assembly is free to slide backwards and be lifted away from the action.
Here is a photo array of the disassembly in progress, including the disassembled trigger pack.
The trigger blade has been modified from stock as described earlier in this thread.
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Another update...
My name is Mike and I have an air rifle addiction. I admit I purchased more than one refurb Ruger Air Hawk Elite II at that $51 price :(
Rifle2's trigger had the same crunchy fake first stage which seamlessly stuttered into the second stage. The actual release point felt inconsistent and was unpredictable. So I worked on rifle2's trigger today and took some photos.
These photos illustrate the trigger mods that I wrote about making on the rifle1 trigger earlier in this post. I performed the exact same mods on the rifle2 trigger.
Sanding material off the front and rear of the trigger blade and rounding the adjustment screw tip are non-reversable changes. However, the "stock" crunchy trigger action can be restored by removing the new front screw, backing out the rear screw, and replacing the small coil spring.
I have tried using a weaker sear (torsion) spring to lower trigger force. This DID lower trigger force, but the result was a very dangerous unstable latch & trigger opertion and I had to restore the factory sear spring. I don't think I can safely lower the trigger pull force and am going to call the triggers "good enough".
At this point both rifles have a safe single stage trigger that has a firm predictable crisp release. I can accept and usually prefer a firmer trigger for hunting. It is easy to get 1/2" 10 shot groups at 30' which makes these good hunting rifles for my use.
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A question about the Air Hawk Elite 2. I read some reviews somewhere about these, and some of the owners had broken the long Weaver rail. They said it, and the assembly it attaches to are made of plastic. Are they correct? I have watched Kenny Kormandy's Youtube review a few times, and he doesn't mention this. He did give this airgun very good ratings, and considered it a best buy at about $100.
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YES the Weaver/Picatinny rail portion IS PLASTIC. It is a strong glass fiber(?) reinforced structural polymer and is NOT metal. Therefore it "may" break under scope clamp stress and the repeated impacts of the springers (although milder gas spring) double recoil. You should be aware of that possibility before making the purchase.
I also read some complaints about rail breakage and would NOT have purchase this at the NEW price. A ~$51 refurb cost makes this a bargain project rifle for me, with really nothing to fix other than that crunchy stiff trigger and safety. I LIKE shooting open sights so if the rail were to crack on my rifle I think it would remain 100% functional for my use.
Also remember that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease". For every broken rail complaint angrily published (as they should be) there may have been thousands of quietly satisfied customers?
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I completed the modifications to my trigger today. In Mike's words my trigger had the same crunchy fake first stage which seamlessly stuttered into the second stage and the actual release point felt inconsistent and was unpredictable. After following Mike's very detailed instructions (with photos) my Ruger's trigger now has a true single stage trigger that has a firm predictable crisp release. I'm very pleased, thanks Mike.
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I completed the modifications to my trigger today. In Mike's words my trigger had the same crunchy fake first stage which seamlessly stuttered into the second stage and the actual release point felt inconsistent and was unpredictable. After following Mike's very detailed instructions (with photos) my Ruger's trigger now has a true single stage trigger that has a firm predictable crisp release. I'm very pleased, thanks Mike.
You are very welcome :) I'm glad the information was helpful and thank you for the feedback.
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I got an Airhawk Elite II and it had the stickiest, crunchiest trigger I'd ever felt. I oiled it and it just made it worse. So then I flushed the trigger mechanism with gasoline to flush out all the oil then used GRAPHITE and now it is one of the smoothest triggers I've felt. It pulls way easier too. Amazing the difference. I took the stock off then shot the graphite throughout the whole mechanism. Wha-la, quick fix.
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I got an Airhawk Elite II and it had the stickiest, crunchiest trigger I'd ever felt. I oiled it and it just made it worse. So then I flushed the trigger mechanism with gasoline to flush out all the oil then used GRAPHITE and now it is one of the smoothest triggers I've felt. It pulls way easier too. Amazing the difference. I took the stock off then shot the graphite throughout the whole mechanism. Wha-la, quick fix.
NomadMike-
I like your simple solution I'm assuming you removed the trigger assembly before putting the gasoline to it. I tried removing my trigger assembly- removed the LH threaded rear stock mounting stud, but I only get about an 1/8" of back and forth movement on the trigger assembly and won't disengage from the piston housing. Did you have to remove anything else, or just use more lateral force to pop it free?
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Figured it out. On my version of the Elite II, (maybe because it was marketed through Walmart?) you have to pull the piston stop out the back in order to slide the trigger group back far enough to remove it. Much easier than I thought it would be! I de-oiled it with a quick gasoline bath and put the powdered graphite to it after it completely dried out. Seems much better now, but I'll post again after putting more pellets through it.
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Figured it out. On my version of the Elite II, (maybe because it was marketed through Walmart?) you have to pull the piston stop out the back in order to slide the trigger group back far enough to remove it. Much easier than I thought it would be! I de-oiled it with a quick gasoline bath and put the powdered graphite to it after it completely dried out. Seems much better now, but I'll post again after putting more pellets through it.
Did you do the trigger modification shown on Reply # 17 & 18 ???
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Dan asked:Did you do the trigger modification shown on Reply # 17 & 18 ???
Nope, just the graphite treatment per NomadMike. It made a BIG difference. The travel is the same, but the crunchiness is gone. Smoothed it right out. That was my biggest gripe.