GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => UK Airgun Gate => Topic started by: Jay308 on March 31, 2023, 11:11:12 AM
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I’m about to install the TbT guides and wondered what do you lube the outside of the Comp tube with and does anyone put moly on the cocking shoe and cocking arm pivot pin or just gun oil?
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Cocking shoe, yes.
Pivot no.
Why?
It is exposed to the elements and the moly will attract dust/dirt.
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It's a personal preference thing. Anywhere I'm worried about dust I use molybdenum disulfide powder. Most other placed I use Krytox. I don't use moly lube. Petroleum is incompatible with Krytox. With the kind of humidity you've got dust should not be a problem, I'd worry more about rust than dust.
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Cool, I was worried about attracting dirt also on the pivot pin. I guess just some Rem-oil on the compression tube should be good, it dries and leaves behind teflon.
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Also, I have the Vortek piston seal but have read it hurts the fps more than it should or takes 1k’s of shots to break in. I thinking of just using the stock one as long as it is not damage upon inspection. What’s your thoughts?
TBT guides with stock fac spring.
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If the original piston seal is not damaged and fits snugly in the compression tube it should be fine. It should take three to five pounds of force to move the piston with seal installed. A looser seal will yield more fps but it can also cause damage when the piston slams into the end of the compression tube. It also accelerates spring breakage. A too loose seal is far worse than a to tight seal. If your seal is too tight you can make it looser by turning it down, just don't go too far. Keep trying it for fit during the process, always lubricating the seal before insertion into the compression tube. Beware that a higher power spring will shorten the life of the cocking shoe. It can crack or break over time rendering the gun unable to be cocked.
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If the original piston seal is not damaged and fits snugly in the compression tube it should be fine. It should take three to five pounds of force to move the piston with seal installed. A looser seal will yield more fps but it can also cause damage when the piston slams into the end of the compression tube. It also accelerates spring breakage. A too loose seal is far worse than a to tight seal. If your seal is too tight you can make it looser by turning it down, just don't go too far. Keep trying it for fit during the process, always lubricating the seal before insertion into the compression tube. Beware that a higher power spring will shorten the life of the cocking shoe. It can crack or break over time rendering the gun unable to be cocked.
I appreciate the knowledge, thanks!
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I’m about to install the TbT guides and wondered what do you lube the outside of the Comp tube with and does anyone put moly on the cocking shoe and cocking arm pivot pin or just gun oil?
I used "traditional" diesel prone petroleum based lubes application which very careful application so was no excess lube that could find it's way past the piston and in front of the piston seal to prevent detonation. I learned this after installing a new spring kit in my R9 and not adequately wiping out the excess excess molly paste that the piston seal "squeegeed" lube in front of the piston seal when installing the piston. Well, the first shot over the chrony showed a .20 cal Beeman FTS flying over the sensors at 1010fps with a great POW, a lot of smoke!, and the gun didn't cock properly after that. Upon disassembly I found that the single detonation caused a brand new spring to break when the piston reversed direction causing the front spring coils to reverse while the rear spring coils were still surging forward! I also found that "dinosaur ouil based" lubes out gas with time becoming thick or even "hard cakey"...........
(https://i.imgur.com/49r76NW.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/r2Zaw3y.png) (https://i.imgur.com/IN3gijA.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/IFUoKgs.jpg)
Years ago I started using non-dieseling Krytox GPL205 grease for lubing except I do use the Krytox GPL105 oil for the cocking lever rivet that can't be easily removed. Matter of fact, I even used the GPL205 grease to lube the spring loaded barrel latching chisel...........
(https://i.imgur.com/yR0KRn2.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/IIZ10ha.png) (https://i.imgur.com/sJmv1NE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2gbPqo0.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/gY7IFh5.jpg)
Krytox GPL20X is white colored instead of "staining black", it doesn't diesel so application isn't as tedious and it doesn't become "dry and cakey" with time. Existing petroleum lubes should be removed before applying Krytox because "petro lubes" don't mix with Krytox which is detrimental for high speed bearings, however I don't consider springers to be "high speed bearings". I disassembles my brand new HW95 to strip out the factory grease using non chlorinated aerosol brake cleaner and then wiping dry which has worked out just fine over the years.
LOL, here is an example of the factory lubing of my HW95 disassembled straight from the box.........
(https://i.imgur.com/GC4Lj5s.jpg)
Some Krytox info...........
(https://i.imgur.com/hiAGIrb.png) (https://i.imgur.com/Y2Dbdu3.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/zh9AxkE.png) (https://i.imgur.com/vdguI7B.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/7x9Dx1z.png)
Anywhoo......traditional "dinosaur oil based lubes" have been used successfully for decades with careful application so "no harm/no foul" whatever you use as long as it works well!
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I use thin layer of clear Vortek grease on the outside of the compression tube. I use a very small amount of 70% moly grease on the cocking shoe and cocking pivots. I don't put any lube on the inside of the compression it itself, but I do put a very small amount of clear Vortek grease on the side of the piston seal and piston bearings. For reference, I am using a Vortek molybdium disulfied piston seal, so it tends to be self lubricating once installed.
I am using TBT guides in my TX200, with a very thin coat of moly grease. I used a small brush to apply the Moly to the spring and guides. Then I wiped the excess off with a paper towel. You need very little moly if your TBT guides fit snugly on your spring. Your should have no vibration and torque, and less forward surge in your shot cycle. I think the recoil is a bit less. I have found that my FAC TX200 shoots best when I use the thin slip washer on the top hat, and not the thick slip washer.
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I use thin layer of clear Vortek grease on the outside of the compression tube. I use a very small amount of 70% moly grease on the cocking shoe and cocking pivots. I don't put any lube on the inside of the compression it itself, but I do put a very small amount of clear Vortek grease on the side of the piston seal and piston bearings. For reference, I am using a Vortek molybdium disulfied piston seal, so it tends to be self lubricating once installed.
I am using TBT guides in my TX200, with a very thin coat of moly grease. I used a small brush to apply the Moly to the spring and guides. Then I wiped the excess off with a paper towel. You need very little moly if your TBT guides fit snugly on your spring. Your should have no vibration and torque, and less forward surge in your shot cycle. I think the recoil is a bit less. I have found that my FAC TX200 shoots best when I use the thin slip washer on the top hat, and not the thick slip washer.
Thanks Fred, I will try the small slip washer and no power washers. I’m going to put the Vortek seal in and hope for the best. I have bum-slide for the piston seal and piston bearings, the kit has normal moly grease I’ll use on the spring and wipe it off like you said. I might try bum-slide on the cocking shoe. I wanted to keep the fps up, so I can use the AA 10.3.