GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => UK Airgun Gate => Topic started by: Jay308 on October 12, 2022, 05:25:58 PM
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Just got it less then a week ago, waiting on the picatinny adapter and rings to come in for the Hawke Airmax 4-12X40 AO.
I cleaned the barrel with dry patches and shot about 10 pellets and then chrono’d at the muzzle in FPS. 72 degrees f / 40% RH
I feel the heavy pellets are bit low but I hope it increases upon break in.
CPHP 7.9g
928
913
912
AA Diabolo 8.44g
881
862
856
H&N FTT 8.64g
887
885
895
AA Heavy 10.34g
777
791
785
CPUM 10.5g
771
782
759
H&N Cuda 10.65g
745
721
743
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Here she is, looking new for now!
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Not sure if I beat the record, but I broke off the rubber bumper for the cocking arm in 20 pellets. I put two #8 o-rings on the end of the arm.
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Numbers are absolutely on the money.
Here is one after 40,000 shots and a recent rebuild:
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Numbers are absolutely on the money.
Here is one after 40,000 shots and a recent rebuild:
Nice rifle! Thanks for the fps feedback. It’s killing me waiting to see how tight she shoots.
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Measure your gun by how small the groups are not by how low the ES is on your crony. ;)
-Y
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I bought a new LH one last year, out of the box it was running AA 8.44 915 fps average. After about 750 pellets I installed a Vortek PG4 kit, it now runs the AA 8.44 about 905 fps and the shot cycle is a lot smoother.
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Calculating ES's, velocities and KE's is a valuable tool, and one that is not massively dependent on operator skill / gun familiarity / mental state like shooting for groups is. It is good and proper to look at the numbers when evaluating a new, or newly tuned gun, even when accuracy is the end goal.
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Finally got the Hawke 4-12 Airmax AO mounted in UTG Pro POI pic rings and they are on the UTG dovetail to picatinny adapter(clamp is one piece).
Now if I can get some time, I may actually see if the TX200 will live up to the hype. The trigger felt good while on the chrono and broke at 1.5 lbs, going to shoot as is for now and adjust after break in, if needed.
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I made time to sight in and shoot a few groups. As I was going outside, I had to take a work phone call, losing light, so I muted the call when taking the actual shot lol. Sight in was done, call was over and now it was time to shoot a few 5 shot groups at 20 yards with the AA 8.44, groups were in the .20-.23” range.
I feel better knowing the rifle is accurate. I shot them fast and was on 4x, next time I’ll up the mag and concentrate a little more and see what she can do. Rifle has 75 pellets down the tube now and recoil was low and I notice no buzzing. Trigger was great, I didn’t have to think about it, just squeeze. I put my thumb at the forearm screw, so I held it at the same spot every time, hand between stock and front bag, no rear bag.
It is so easy to shoot, doesn’t have fliers and is stupid accurate. It’s like the first time I shot a 1/2 moa precision rifle, it’s a nice feeling when you are holding the rifle back, not the other way around.
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Did a quick Chrono at 200 pellets, picked up a few fps!
10.65 H&N Cuda gained 14, 760 avg
10.34 AA gained 15, 800 avg
8.44 AA gained 30, 895 avg
*8.64 H&N FTT lost 15 fps??? 868 avg
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Jay I use 4.52mm 8.64 H&N…885fps
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Jay I use 4.52mm 8.64 H&N…885fps
That’s the exact ones I have and they were in the 885 range, maybe I’ll re-chrono those again, because everything else increased with break-in.
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Warm up the spring with 5-10 shots before you check the speed.
Insure chrono is in same location.
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I weighed a open tin(300?) of AA Heavy 10.3 pellets. Looks pretty good, 10.2 had the most and 10.3 2nd(60/40). Only a few of 10.1 and 10.4, but these could open up groups. I will update if the groups get smaller shooting the same weight in a session.
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Sorting by weight didn’t really help my groups but maybe not using the 10.1 and 10.4 would prevent fliers. It might make more of a difference at 40 yards or someone with better springer skills then me? The 10.2 and 10.3 pellets shot the same.
The four 20 yard 5 shot groups were between .23” to .34”, still trying to get a good technique that works for me. It is really fun and more challenging then I would have thought!
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If you are using a rest, rest the forearm on you open hand not on the rest itself.
Do not hold too tight.
Allow the rifle to move but move the same way everytime.
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If you are using a rest, rest the forearm on you open hand not on the rest itself.
Do not hold too tight.
Allow the rifle to move but move the same way everytime.
Yes, I keep my hand between the front bag and the forearm, it shoots better that way and it is how you would shoot it off a deck rail or against a tree etc… I think I might need more follow through?
It’s a lot different then “driving” a center fire rifle, this seem harder then shooting my Sako TRG at 600 yards, I maintain half MOA at that distance too! I have a lot to learn it seems, do you think a tune kit will help?
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I shoot my tuned TX200 just like I shoot my centerfire bench rifles. Front rest with forend resting directly on it and a rear bag. I shoot mostly indoors 25 yds. Lots of .250 5 shoot groups and a fair amount smaller. Very, very light hold.
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Looks like I should balance the rifle in my left hand and this is the spot I should be holding the forearm, I will update if it helps.
I weighed a new tin of AA field heavy 10.3 and about 90% were 10.3 and the rest 10.4. I had one 9.4 and ten 10.2, I bought 5 tins at one time and this one was from that order.
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Well I noticed the big stock screw was loose and it was moving a 1/4 inch, still shot good oddly enough. POI went up 2” after tightening, I’ll check the screws more often.
Balancing the rifle in my left hand and then setting my hand down on the bag, made the groups tighter instantly. By it being balanced, it let me have a lighter overall hold. The groups were in the .22-28” range and more consistent. Now I can work on other small corrections.
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Where to start with the new tune… Thanks to Fred J, I decided to use Tinbum(TbT) basic kit and a Vortek piston seal with the stock spring. The TbT kit has a delrin rear guide and top hat, 2 slip washers(big/small), 2 power washers, breach seals and moly grease. I also got the bum-slide which has a high % of moly that is almost dry when applied.
Taking the TX down is as easy as stripping a AR15! I discovered the recoil stop holes are not blind and go all the way through, the trigger block was very hard to remove and the piston got hung removing it, due to the slighly protruding scope ring recoil stop pin!!! I fixed that issue and pressed on.
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The inside was nasty, the stock oil-grease is like gloop and was everywhere, caked inside the piston etc… Cleaned all that up, removed the stock piston seal with a small flat blade screwdriver and put the Vortek seal on. I used a hair dryer to warm it up and I put one side on and used my thumb to stretch it on the inside, around and down, it literally popped on. I lubed the piston seal and ring bearings with the bum-slide. I lubed the spring with a brush and the regular moly and wiped off the excess with a paper towel. I went to fit the tbt guides but they didn’t fit and would need to be sanded, so installed the stock rear guide and top hat.
I assembled and test fired, one shot was all it took to know the stock guides without caked on lube, twangs and buzzes loud as heck. I got to chrono it and the Vortek seal did lower the fps by 40 but when the stock seal was new it would only be 20 fps lower. Hopefully it will break in and I’ll get at least 20 back. It is shooting the 10.3 at 760 fps now.
I took it back a part and I was able to leave the piston in the comp tube, tipped it and the stock top hat fell out. I sanded the tbt guides for a few hours by hand with 80 grit and finished with the included 120 grit sand paper. I lubed them with bum-slide and screwed them on the spring. I used the thick slip washer with the top hat and power washer on the rear and this gave me same preload as stock/same thickness of the stock top hat. The shot cycle is now a thud with no vibration but does have some recoil, the recoil would be less with a 12 ft/lb kit, but I still want the power for pests. I can always switch out the big slip washer for the small as Fred J suggested to me. I like the power washer on the rear as the spring seems to have more purchase with it, probably not needed though. I will chrono with the new guides soon also.
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Also wanted to note that both piston seals felt loose to me, both were able to be pushed in with 1 finger with light pressure, I believe this is how they are supposed to be. I have never worked on a spring gun before. I heard some say the Vortek felt tight going in, but it must be a little tighter as I lost 40 fps.
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I checked the speed with the new tbt guides and it is up a little to 765-770. I did have a couple of extremes of 259 and 280. I only have 25 shots through it now. I guess the scope can go back on and shoot some groups and get pellets through it.
Wanted to note that my left front stock screw would not thread all the way in. There was a gap on the front left side of the stock. I used a spare 5mm screw to chase the threads and act like a tap. That mostly took care of the gap.
Here is a pic of the stock dirty internals, I did wipe off the piston and top hat though, but you can see what the stock lube looks like on the spring.
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Your tune numbers are very similar to my tbt tune with the stock spring with JSB 10.3gr pellets. With the Maccari spring I get 758 fps. Enjoy your TX200!
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Your tune numbers are very similar to my tbt tune with the stock spring with JSB 10.3gr pellets. With the Maccari spring I get 758 fps. Enjoy your TX200!
Thanks again for the advice. I hope the guides hold up, the cocking feels rougher, maybe the spring rubbing on the tight guides?
I shot it today, groups are a little tighter, the reticle only moves 1” up on the target, so I can see the aim point the whole time. Before it was up and left and would stop on the far left side of the target. Big improvement on the recoil.
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The cocking roughness should resolve itself after a couple of hundred shots. If it still rough then, I suggest removing the spring and guides, and apply a small amount of moly grease on the guides between the coils with a small paint brush. No need to remove the guides from the spring.
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The cocking roughness should resolve itself after a couple of hundred shots. If it still rough then, I suggest removing the spring and guides, and apply a small amount of moly grease on the guides between the coils with a small paint brush. No need to remove the guides from the spring.
I pulled it apart, swapped out the thick slip washer for the thin one. I cleaned the small plastic particles off the spring and lightly applied moly grease with a brush. The spring shaved off the sand paper marks on the guide. I think I had too much preload before also, it was easier to put the bolt back in the trigger block this time.
It cocks smoother(shot 60 times today)and recoil is reduce some more, but I lost fps 10.3@750-755 now. I only have about 160 pellets on the new seal. I hope it breaks in and I pick up some fps. I’m going to try the FTT and AA 8.4 again, since it is around 13 ft/lbs now. I’m happy with the shot cycle after using the thin slip washer.
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Measure your gun by how small the groups are not by how low the ES is on your crony. ;)
-Y
Yup, decades ago with my first .177 Beeman R9 springer (actually bought from Beeman) I was testing out different pellet brands and found that the cheap Beeman Bearcub pellet gave the most consistent velocity of all the other Beeman branded pellets I tested. Problem was that even though the velocities were "low single digit consistent" they were also the least accurate giving accuracy of 1/2" ctc at only 11 yards!
An interesting thing about those Bearcubs was that the tin they came from was labeled "Bearcup" instead of "Bearcub". After seeing this on Ebay I'm was wondering if I trashed a "collector worthy" tin with the errant label..........
(https://i.imgur.com/QIIm88C.png)
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Shot the AA 8.44(860 fps) and FTT 8.64 (840 fps) today. The FTT is grouping tight and will probably be the go to pellet now. The 8.44 did not do well at all, it didn’t like it stock either. It‘s cocking smooth as stock now, had to be excessive pre-load.
Too bad I bought 4 tins of the 10.3, my Hatsan 95 didn’t like the 10.3 but loves the Baracuda Match 10.65 but it shoots them at 840. Maybe when it gains more fps, I’ll try them again. 230 pellets on the new tune, 13.5 fpe with FTT 8.64.
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Shot the AA 8.44(860 fps) and FTT 8.64 (840 fps) today. The FTT is grouping tight and will probably be the go to pellet now. The 8.44 did not do well at all, it didn’t like it stock either. It‘s cocking smooth as stock now, had to be excessive pre-load.
Too bad I bought 4 tins of the 10.3, my Hatsan 95 didn’t like the 10.3 but loves the Baracuda Match 10.65 but it shoots them at 840. Maybe when it gains more fps, I’ll try them again. 230 pellets on the new tune, 13.5 fpe with FTT 8.64.
Jay - I have two .177" TX200s. My 'go to' rifle is fed a diet of 8.4gn AAF; the other is used for experimentation, including trying different pellets. I have found that if I use a pellet made from a harder lead alloy (anything H&N or RWS), then I have to thoroughly clean the barrel with a phosphor bronze brush before I can get accuracy from the AAF.
I put this down to the softer alloy AAF not being able to dislodge harder leading from other pellets.
We have found the same with TX200s and other rifles belonging to our HFT club members.
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I shot the FTT and AA 10.3 again today. The tightest group came from the FTT but I had more total tighter groups with the 10.3. When a flier occurred, the 10.3 was closer to point of aim then the FTT flier.
Maybe I will clean the barrel as Jim-in-UK suggested and then keep using the AA 10.3.
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I did clean the barrel, used a brass brush and patches with CLP. I put a straw through the baffles and hold it against the actual barrel to keep the debris out of them.
It worked, the AA 10.3’s are back to shooting great, thanks Jim! I guess it was the different harder pellets I ran through it. I have 1k pellets down the tube, I only used dry patches through it when new. The AA 8.4 still shoot poorly, it just doesn’t like them.
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I replaced the breech seals with a 108 buna-N 90 shore o-ring. It is noticeably stiffer then the stock 70 shore. The fps went up about 10, 760-765 w/ 10.3 AA’s. I sighted in again at 25 yards, as taking the stock off shifts poi. It was lightly raining but managed to shoot a few 5 shot groups. It is grouping well(.26 to .28)and passed the pellet on the turret test too!
Now hopefully I can go back to working on my shooting, instead of working on the rifle lol
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Looks like it’s time to shoot F/T targets as I shot 5 groups today and 4 were .22-.23” and 1 .26” @25yards. The tune is done and I will keep a eye on the fps to see if it increases with pellet count. 13.2 fpe