GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: guykuo on February 01, 2017, 02:07:45 PM
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With Dave Ez's kind permission, I am partially re-posting my review of the Carette 4500 compressor here at GTA. This is an option I wish existed just over a year ago when I began my quest for a compressor.
The Carette 4500 compressor is a Chinese compressor that seeks to fill the price performance gap between "big boy" dive compressors and Shoebox compressors. They unfortunately arrived amidst a wave of "junk" compressors. To my great surprise, their Carrette 4500 is very different.
Mr. Wang kindly supplied the demonstrator unit. I have not kept that compressor post testing. I gave it away. I already have a Bauer Jr and do not need another compressor. I found a fellow air gunner who is also a victim of another manufacturer’s poor built compressor. It was a nice surprise for him. I’m sure he will give it a good home.
As a demonstrator unit rather than a final production unit, the test unit may not exactly match the appearance and configuration of the actual shipped units. I have been told that the external finish will be better on the actual units. Also, the crankshaft bearing and rods will be more durable than those on the demonstrator.
The manufacturer is now running a introductory promotion for what I call the "full configuration." That is with a PMV (pressure maintaining valve) and auto bleed. I wanted the PMV to maximize water removal and the auto bleed to make usage convenient. They listened.
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The Carette 4500 compressor was well packaged to survive the trip from China. It was not on a palette, but the FedEx delivery man was able to lift the crate by himself.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/001%20delivery%20crate.jpg)
Lifting the hinged lid revealed the compressor and several bags of parts. The small manual was only in Chinese.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/002%20crate%20opened.jpg)
I really liked how neatly the compressor was bolted down to the bottom of the crate using wing nuts. Rubber strips protected the finish from the wood securing strips. That type of detail was echoed throughout the initial inspection of the compressor. It looks well put together rather than something thrown together in someones garage.
I was able to lift the compressor out of its crate using its handles without needing assistance.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/003%20well%20secured%20in%20crate.jpg)
Foster fill whip, high pressure hoses, and various fittings were neatly bagged. There are no instructions on how to add the fiddly bits to the compressor and high pressure filter.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/003b%20misc%20bits.jpg)
There was even a DIN fill whip and DIN/Foster adapter in the package, but I don’t know if that would be a standard item. I think they were making certain I had everything needed to hook things up.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/003a%20fill%20whips%20and%20hoses.jpg)
Shipment included a large, beefy, high pressure filter cylinder. It’s a user pack style that doesn’t use cartridges. Cartridge was already packed and a spare packet each of activated carbon and molecular sieve were also in the shipment.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/011%20high%20pressure%20filter.jpg)
For size comparison, here it is next to an Alpha filter. Note the bleed valves and PMV on the Alpha.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/alpha%20size%20comparison.jpg)
There are already multiple videos and pictures of the compressor on the web. So, I’ll just show what I found notable.
The compressor is a two stage design. Casting is definitely different from Mrodair’s compressor. The machining, fit and finish on this unit are considerably better than the Airmax Extreme’s. This “demonstrator” unit has a PMV and automatic bleeder installed. I’m told the production machines will have better crankcases bearings and rods than the unit I have for testing.
That said, this is a complete, self contained design without need for external water buckets or running water for cooling. Power for the compressor is 120 volts (despite a 220v label on the cooling fan).
Notice the relatively large water oil separator. It’s actually big enough to do a good job and not need bleeding as often.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/004%20front%20view.jpg)
The PMV is mounted on the water oil separator. It is adjustable via the locking nut and adjustment bolt on its end. Ideally, this would actually be AFTER the high pressure drying and oil filter. Because the filter unit is separate from the compressor, I can understand why it was mounted here. If the threads were compatible, I would move the PMV to the outlet of the high pressure drying filter for maximal effect. BTW, the brass knob atop the PMV acts as the fill whip bleed.
The little silver bolt just below the PMV, on the water oil separator covers a burst disc. Yes, this has an overpressure safety. The disc will rupture and help avoid catastrophic failure. The MrodAir completely lacked any overpressure safety measures. The Carrette 4500 costs more to make for at higher quality and safety.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/005%20front%20view%20pmv%20gauge.jpg)
There is a real motor control box that encloses all the electrical. You can’t accidentally touch bare metal conductors like you can in the Airmax Extreme. The motor control safely does NOT re-engage the motor if AC mains power is lost and regained.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/006%20motor%20control%20box%20exterior.jpg)
Automatic drainage of the water & oil separator condensate combined with auto shutoff at desired pressure allows unattended operation. My Bauer Jr has zero automation and didn’t even come with a motor control box. This machine lets you set both interval between bleeds and how long each bleed should last. BTW, the bleed will likely scare you the first time it opens.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/007%20auto%20bleeder.jpg)
Pressure gauge and automatic shutoff. Didn't come filled with glycerin.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/pressure%20gauge%20auto%20shutoff.jpg)
Cooling of compressed air improves water separation and keeps the cylinders cooler. This compressor has coiled tubing both between stages and again before the water oil separator.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/008%20interstage%20cooling.jpg)
nice… Not as big as the coils in my Bauer, but these only get warm (not even hot) after over an hour running at 2500 PSI. For this machine's air compression rate, they seem adequate. I’ll recheck once I do full pressure testing.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/009%20pre%20separator%20cooling.jpg)
Look at how nicely the cooling jacket is finished and fitting to secure the temperature probe. Little details make this stand apart another machine where the temp probe was simply potted in a hole with glue. Sure looks a different level machine.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/010%20cooling%20jacket%20and%20head%20detail.jpg)
Initial impression from inspection is that this machine adds features, design & safety changes I thought were sorely lacking on the Airmax Extreme. This is NOT an Airmax Extreme. The Carette is obviously a different design and seems a better build. Very promising….
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Compressor arrived (thankfully) without oil or coolant. You really don't want oil in the machine during shipment. The coolant is shown as antifreeze on the youtube video, but I was told water. I've filled with water since that has a higher heat carrying capacity than antifreeze.
I used Bauer synthetic compressor oil. The crankcase label indicates 300 ml and that is about what I poured. Oil level is easy to see as one fills the crank case. They've made the label and observation dot indicator very easy to understand. Just fill to the top of the red dot and no further.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/oil%20fill%20window.jpg)
Fill the cooling system is a little trickier because you need to minimize air. First tip the entire compressor backwards and use some blocking to keep it tilted about 5 degrees. The tilt helps get the radiator full filled and cleared of air.
Be sure to avoid the protrusions at the bottom of the water pump and water oil separator. You don't want to break those by making them support the compressor's weight.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/blocking%20for%20water%20filling.jpg)
Disconnect the coolant tube from the high pressure cylinder cooling jacket. That would be the tube going from the low pressure cooling jacket to the high pressure.
Connect a spare piece of tubing to the high pressure cooling jacket inlet to fill the system. I used one long enough to let me siphon the water into the system. By the green color of the residual coolant in the machine. I could see they had used antifreeze in this unit. (It had 30 minutes on its timer)
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/water%20filling%202.jpg)
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/water%20filling%203.jpg)
Once coolant fills the entire system, reconnect the original tubing.
EDIT: Rather than siphoning or using a syringe, I later found it was a lot easier to fill and de-air with a squeeze spray bottle to pump coolant into the compressor. This let me put in coolant without injecting air. Pressurization from squeezing the spray bottle also drive air that is in the cooling system out. Open the spray bottle cap and route the tubing from the low pressure side drain back into the spray bottle. Squeeze, squeeze, squeeze and you fully fill the cooling system.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/spray%20bottle%20with%20tubing.JPG)
Once oil and coolant are filled. You can proceed with adding the fill whips, bleeder valves, etc.
Initial run-in on a new Bauer is 15 - 20 minutes at zero load.
I'm letting this compressor properly "bed in" at lower pressure before moving up to higher pressures.
30 minutes at zero load, then 2,500 psi for a total nearing three hours thus far. The cooling system works. Nothing is hot to the touch. That's including all the high pressure pipes.
After being spoilt by the Bauer's self-contained cooling, you can't go back to a water bucket or hose. The convenience of just plugging in and turning on the compressor is delivered by this Carette 4500.
The Carette is quiet compared to my Bauer Jr (which is super quiet compared to the Airmax Extreme)
Bauer noise is 88 dB at normal operator distance and 85 dB at one meter
Carette noise is 80 dB at normal operator distance and 74 dB at one meter
That is quiet enough that the blast from the auto condensate drain startled me the first time it bled.
Power consumption
unloaded is 12.2 amps / 930 watts
at 2500 PSI is 14.4 amps / 1100 watts
I may have to move to a 20 amp socket for full pressure testing, but this is a far cry from the crazy amperages needed by an Arkansas machine.
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After completing run-in at lower pressures, it was time to move forward with full pressure testing. Because I wish to protect my equipment from both moisture and oil contamination, I did all fill testing with an Alpha filter between the compressor and device to be filled.
Although I could have tested with the Carette included filter, I decided to use the Alpha because it is a proven unit that protected my gear even against the horribly fouled output of the Mrodair Airmax Extreme machine. Remember, that one put out so much oil and moisture that I could barely see across my garage due to the suspended fog.
The Carette 4500 did not fill the air with fog despite two hours of run time. It still did put out some oil in its condensate, but it was pretty minor compared to what I was seeing with the "Arkansas fumigation" unit. I knew the Alpha filter can handle this easily.
Test Setup was as below. A white plastic tray was positioned to catch condensate drainage. Alpha unit is lashed upright for best function.
As an aside, an extra bleed valve at the Alpha output is needed because I was going to test fill a rifle directly. If you order an Alpha be sure to let them know whether you are also going to fill rifles directly rather than just tanks. If you don’t get this extra bleed valve, you can’t bleed down the fill whip. The input bleed valve on an Alpha does NOT bleed the far side of its PMV.
Anyways, the test setup allows measurement of electrical power usage, temperature at two points, and ready inspection of condensate. An SPL meter was also used at 1 meter to check noise level.
This picture is actually for the Great White testing, but just image an AGN Vulcan attached to the fill whip instead of the Great White.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/test%20setup.jpg)
The setup has two PMV’s. Typically, you would only have one PMV just before the final filter output. This complicates interpretation of timing when filling a small cylinder like a rifle’s. The compressor needs time to…
1. Build up enough pressure in the water separator to open the compressor’s PMV and begin releasing air out of the PMV outlet. This takes 43 seconds to open at 2500 psi.
2. Pressurize the alpha filter who’s internal volume is that of an air rifle cylinder. Its PMV opens at 1800 PSI. This is at 92 seconds after compressor startup.
3. Finally, cleaned air is delivered to the fill whip.
Topping up a Vulcan from 150 bar to 250 bar took a total of 307 seconds from star to finish. This includes the time to pressurize the water oil separator and alpha filter. One cycle of the auto vent also added about 30 seconds to the fill time (since that drops pressure to near zero)
So, in terms of actually filling action time, we’re looking at
total 307 to top off from 150 to 250 bar
of which 307 - 92 - 30 = 185 seconds are actually time filling the air cylinder.
Pressure gauge reading on the Carette matched the AGN manometer pretty well.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/carrette%20gauge%20when%20vulcan%20at%20250%20bar.jpg)
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/vulcan%20gauge%20at%20250%20bar.jpg)
So, yes you can pretty conveniently fill a rifle directly with this compressor. The total time is way faster than a hand pump. The auto shutoff means you could conceivably let it fill without watching the process, but total time is short enough that I think it would be silly to walk away.
Would I used this compressor without a filter? No. by itself the compressor (with a PMV) does a very good job of separating out oil and water, but a separator cannot do the entire job. I would still put a filter between this and any equipment I wish to preserve and use safely. On the other hand, I would say the same about any compressor that does not have its own high filter for moisture and hydrocarbon removal.
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The Carrette 4500 can easily top off a Great White in a reasonable time. 72 minutes total to top up from 2750 to 4500 PSI. Machine stayed quiet and never sounded strained, nor did it get hot. Very impressive was how cool the air remained, even that coming out of the high pressure cylinder output. The lower temperature means less cylinder stress AND better water separation.
Test setup was already shown an earlier post. I set the automatic condensate drain to every 10 minutes. You don't have to hang over the compressor while it works. 72 minutes is a while, but you can go about your business while the machine works. Without the manual bleed, you would need to bleed the machine every 10-15 minutes.
Temperature probe on high pressure stage output pipe
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/temp%20probe%20on%20high%20pressure%20outlet.jpg)
Here are some data points. I didn’t get them every 100 PSI because there really weren’t huge changes in power consumption or noise. The steady amperage level was surprising to see as pressure increased. They really HAVE geared things down so power draw and heat are well balanced with air production speed.
00 min, 2800 PSI, 14.8 amps, 1136 watts, 76 dB
04 min, 2900 PSI, 14.6 amps, 1120 watts
08 min, 3000 PSI, 14.2 amps, 1097 watts, 76 dB
12 min, 3100 PSI, 14.0 amps, 1073 watts
19 min, 3300 PSI, 13.8 amps, 1059 watts
32 min, 3700 PSI, 14.0 amps, 1070 watts, 76 dB
39 min, 3800 PSI, 14.0 amps, 1068 watts
52 min, 4100 PSI, 14.1 amps, 1083 watts
57 min, 4200 PSI, 14.1 amps, 1084 watts, 76 dB
60 min, 4300 PSI, 14.2 amps, 1089 watts
66 min, 4400 PSI, 14.1 amps, 1069 watts
72 min, 4500 PSI, 14.5 amps, 1089 watts, 76 db
Air output temperature at the high pressure cylinder was 35.3 C at 4500 psi. This is incredibly cool for air coming out of the high pressure cylinder AND that is before going through the cooling tube. The water oil separator never heats up! Lower temperature function will reduce risk of dieseling and make water separation more efficient. Instead of separating at an elevated temperature’s dew point, the Carette does its separation at a lower temperature. That lets it wring out more water than if it were trying to do it at a higher temperature. You can comfortably hold either high pressure tube during operation. It's simply amazing to for the air to remain so cool during compression.
The amperage draw, even at full pressure, is low enough for the average household receptacle. Ideally, a 20 amp circuit would give more headroom, but I had no difficulty at all on a 15 amp circuit.
The cooling system is well matched to the thermal load. It keeps the compressed air and cylinder jackets comfortable to hold. The 1st stage cylinder fins are the warmest portion I could find at 51c. Tons of air motion keep the motor housing at 38 c.
Pressure gauges matched up well when Great White gauge read 4500 psi
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/great%20white%20guage%20at%204500.jpg)
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/carette%20gauge%20when%20gw%20showing%204500.jpg)
Here is the condensate collected after doing the entire top up from 2800 to 4500 psi over 72 minutes.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/condensate%20after%20topping%20gw.jpg)
There is some oil that has been separated out in the condensate. The output air would have just a fraction of that in the condensate — easily handled by the activated carbon of a filter. Also, even more telling. a ray of sunlight entering the garage window didn’t light up any suspended fog despite the 72 minutes of operation.
The Great White was then bled down to empty. That takes quite a while.
Filling from empty was surprisingly linear in terms of PSI gain/hour
1:00 Hour 1500 psi
2:00 Hour 3100 psi
3:06 Hour 4600 psi
The condensate drainage for the entire 3 hour, continuous run looked like this...
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/condensate%20output%203%20hours.jpg)
Tellingly, bleeding the bottom of the Alpha filter yielded no visible output at all even after the three hours. This differs dramatically from what would happen with the Mrodair Airmax Extreme. That compressor failed to adequately separate water and oil from the air. Whenever I bled the bottom of the Alpha with the Airmax, material was expelled every time. The Carette's separator is doing an admirable job if I am see NOTHING come out of the Alpha's bottom vent.
We still need endurance data, but thus far, this machine is working better than expected. The Carette 5400's gentler speed is likely to reduce mechanical wear rate. It was a really smart choice to slow down the compressor. You can't build full scale dive compressor robustness and speed at this price range. However, the Carrette 4500 is appropriately engineered run a bit slower and get around electrical, mechanical, and water separation issues. The fill rate is still quite reasonable, and if one gets the auto condensation bleed and shutoff, once can just let it take care of itself during filling.
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High Pressure Cylinder
Coolant was drained from the compressor and coolant lines detached. High pressure lines were pretty standard high pressure fittings with tapered ends and compression nuts.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/high%20pressure%20head%20step%201.jpg)
The heatsink atop the high pressure cylinder head is secured by only one grub screw. However, on this unit, that grub screw was near the position of the thermal sensor and thus not visible during initial tear down. Also, be mindful of the short leads for the thermal sensor. You’ll either need a right angle phillips driver, or simply detach the sensor from the cylinder head as you remove the head.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/high%20pressure%20head%20heatsink.jpg)
Grub screw of heat sink. The screw just below and right of it is one of the heat sink securing screws. Once you loose the grub screw, the heatsink slips right off.
NB. Removing the heat sink may suddenly free the four stainless steel washers that may not have come out with the cylinder head bolts. Those four stainless steel washers are SINGLE USE ONLY. They must be replaced with new ones when the cylinder is reassembled. Otherwise, coolant will leak out around the bolt heads.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/high%20pressure%20cylinder%20head.jpg)
The cylinder head with heatsink removed reveals the piece under which the reed valve lives. I could never get enough torque to open the silver colored piece. It is cranked on hard. Resecuring the head to the cylinder didn’t help. I did not force it with a breaker bar because I can easily hear the valve wafer moving freely inside. No reason to break open until that valve needs replacement.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/high%20pressure%20head%20underside.jpg)
Bottom of high pressure cylinder head. A fiber washer surrounds the air inlet/outlet, but that is not the main pressure seal.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/high%20pressure%20cylinder.jpg)
The high pressure seal is formed by a higher temperature o-ring that is properly sized and fully captured within a groove. The larger o-ring is for coolant seal.
Notice that the bolt holes go THROUGH the water jacket. This is a crucial detail that affects how you put the cylinder back together. The bolts and their stainless steel washers must be water tight. This is why the washers must be replaced with new ones. Deformation of the washer as you torque the bolts tight creates a water tight seal. Once the washers have been used, they will not create a seal if you try to use them again. I tried. Definitely leaks.
NEVER disassemble the high pressure cylinder unless you have spare stainless steel washers to replace the four used to secure the high pressure cylinder head. The low pressure cylinder does not share this issue because its bolts do not go through the cooling fluid.
The actual working cylinder is a metal, cylinder nsert. Four bolts and washers secure the high pressure cylinder to the crankcase.
We worry about high pressure rings wearing out. Those were a quickly burned and destroyed phenolic rings in the Mrodair. What does this compressor have? Three, four rings? Are they metallic rings? Are they plastic?
Pull the cylinder and we see….
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/high%20pressure%20piston.jpg)
Wow! NO rings. This thing works by letting a precision ground piston slide inside a well fitted cylinder. There are NO rings to wear or burn out.
Sincere says the rod and cylinder on this demo unit are not as hard as those that will be in the production units. I really don’t see anything amiss in this high pressure cylinder after over 30 hours run time. No dieseling carbon buildup. There is just a tiny bit of darkening at the end of the piston.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/high%20pressure%20cylinder%20underside.jpg)
The bottom end of the cylinder is nicely finished and readily guides the piston back into the cylinder. No need to individually ensure each high pressure ring is safely into the cylinder without deformation. There aren’t any rings to damage. Just guide the piston in gently.
I am impressed by how the high pressure cylinder is built. A high level of parts precision is needed to dare such a design.
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Low Pressure Cylinder
Onward to the low pressure cylinder. The air filter unscrews by hand. Four bolts and washers hold the cylinder head.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/low%20pressure%20cylinder%20step%201.jpg)
Keep a grip on the cylinder head as the bolts are removed. It will come completely loose when the bolts are gone.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/low%20pressure%20cylinder%20head%20underside.jpg)
Bottom of the cylinder head is familiar looking. An output reed valve lives under that valve plate.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/low%20pressure%20inlet%20valve.jpg)
The inlet reed valve is also familiar. Remember that those index pins are actually loose. Don’t drop and lose them.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/low%20pressure%20cylinder%20contents.jpg)
gracious! What is this? How could there be so much oil bypass? This is worse that I ever saw on the Fumigator Extreme. Why didn’t I see more oil in the output if this is going on?
One wipe with a paper towel and….
No it isn’t oil. It is a pool of rusty water.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/low%20pressure%20cylinder%20wall%201.jpg)
It has corroded the cylinder where it pooled and there is even a palpable deep pit above where the water was collected.
The cylinder walls look awful in this image, but a lot of that darkness wiped away. The cylinder walls otherwise look like they started out well polished and smooth.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/low%20pressure%20cylinder%20wall%202.jpg)
After wiping clean. It looks much better. I also moved the piston further into the crankcase after wiping. That is why you see that residue line. The rings were definitely selling against the water.
I don’t understand how so much water accumulated in the low pressure cylinder. I checked the coolant o-rings and their seats. All look fine. I don’t think the water got in from the cooling system running. It is a mystery.
So, overall, the compressor, especially the high pressure cylinder is impressively built.
The low pressure side, is not bypassing large amounts of oil, but there is this puzzling pooling of water in the low pressure cylinder.
Edit:
CONFIRMED. The nasty water in the low pressure side is residual condensate from the long, 24 hour run. Longer run --> more condensate to clear.
I did NOT do any post run clearance procedure after the 24 hour test.
Recommendation from manufacturer now is to run the compressor 5 minutes with vents open to clear any condensate after EACH use of the compressor.
Running the compressor with the water oil separator valve open for 5 minutes DOES indeed clear out any condensate that may have collected in the low pressure cylinder. This post-run purge should be done at the end of each usage session.
Failure to do a post run purge may result in what you saw above. With the post-run purge, the low pressure cylinder should remain in good shape.
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Because, we discovered residual condensate had remained in the lower pressure cylinder after its 24 hour torture test, there was concern regarding how the low pressure cylinder would fare long term.
I DID NOT do anything special with the compressor at the end of the 24 hour run. I merely turned it off and bled down the vents.
HOWEVER, we now know the compressor should be run with its vents open for 4-5 minutes to clear the cylinders after EVERY usage episode.
I tested the effectiveness of this post run purge by intentionally loading the low pressure cylinder with 3 ml of distilled water. This is way more than was found during cylinder inspection post 24 hour run. This amount is more than the cylinder is likely to ever condense. If the purge procedure can clear this, it can clear anything the compressor can accumulate.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/distilled%20water%20in%20low%20pressure%20cylinder.jpg)
The compressor was reassembled and run for 5 minutes with the water oil separator valve open. Water did come out of the separator.
Upon re-inspection, of the low pressure cylinder, all the water was gone.
I did a backup test of running the compressor with load for one hour, followed by a five minute open valve "purge." The low pressure cylinder at the end of that was completely free of water. Only a very tiny bit of oil was found in the cylinder.
YES. Purging by running for five minutes with valves open works.
The rusty water I found could have been prevented by following the purge procedure. Rather than doing the purge every 2 months only during prolonged idle storage, the purge should be done AFTER EVERY USAGE EPISODE to keep the cylinders in good shape.
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The Carette 4500's motor control box has all wires passing into it via nicely snug pass throughs. The 3 prong, 120 volt AC power cord is permanently attached. No exposed bare wiring or electrical contacts are present which make this much safer than the Fumigator extreme's ungrounded metal chassis and touchable, bare 240 volt contacts.
The mother control box and its control panel were opened for inspection. The cover is sealed with a foam gasket around its perimeter. No smell of overheating or burning was detected when the control box was opened. This is despite my 24 hour torture test run.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/electrical%201.jpg)
Wires appear appropriate for the loads. All connectors are orderly and bundled in looms. Definitely not a rats nest. This is well planned and executed wiring. Clearly NOT built with absolute cheapest construction.
(http://cosalient.com/picture/compressor/electrical%202.jpg)
A proper contactor handles the motor load. There is a power supply to run the thermal sensing circuitry. They didn't go cheap and try to run everything with mains voltage.
Yes, the AC ground IS actually connected to the chassis to protect the user.
This is a better motor control box than what I built for my Bauer Jr.
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That is it for the re-post.
I wish this kind of info was available for the first compressor I bought. These expensive machines really need more than just a "run and I like it" review.
Really torture testing and then taking one apart to see how things are faring yields a lot more information about how it is likely to fare long term.
Guy Kuo
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You could repost the nimrodair disaster too, for comparison how not to do things.
Marko
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Ugh..... don't want to relive that sad story. I just hope the bad experience isn't repeated with a new, similarly configured machine hot in the presses. Time will tell on that one.
I have put a blurb over on the bargains sections (with Dave's approval) about an introductory special for the Carrette 4500 configured with PMV and autodrain.
I recommend a Dman or Brancato high pressure filter post the compressor to complete the system.
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Thanks so much for all the time spent testing and doing the tear down/inspection. A LOT of time involved! I'll be keeping my eye on this one.
Ed
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Thanks. It is an impressive machine and the company has been very receptive to suggestions to further improve their design. I really like them and the compressor. The test unit was subsequently given to someone who was also a victim of the Mrodair Airmax Extreme. What a difference in machine and honor level of company.
Which brings me to a new, outrageous portion of the saga....
Mrodair is now advertising a new "mark 4" compressor that unfairly capitalizes on my evaluation of the Carette 4500 and rips off the legitimate manufacturers 2 year design and research. Their ad features pictures of an old Chinese domestic version of the Carrette. The original identifying markings were crudely hidden , but the compressors they are actually selling are NOT made by the Carrette's creators. The Carette folks are understandably outraged by this outright cloning of their product.
It is not the same maker's machine. It's 220 volts. No one knows how they are constructed internally. Just because it looks outwardly like a Carette, does not mean it is the same quality build. They are very concerned about the Carette's quality reputation being ruined by a look alike clone from Mrodair.
It just sickens me to learn of this happening.
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Guy,
You might want to get your facts straight.
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I haven't gotten all the way through your report yet but I want to thank you for
taking the time to put together such a thorough review and testing of this compressor!
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The most believable data available is direct from the Carette manufacturer. He goes by the handle "Sincere" at the Talon.
....Sincere said he is shocked and angry to find out they advertise our compressor which was designed and tested by his team who spent two years for doing this job.
He would like you to open a post to remind any potential buyers of Mrodair's bad compressor which may look same or similar to ours but structured differently inside.
Maybe they did not even do any long time testing before selling.
We do not want Mrodair to ruin the reputation of our compressor's good quality.
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Sounds like second hand.
"Someone told me"
Perhaps direct info from them would be better.
In their own reply, it is from the same maker.
(Address as to the parts used)
It is one thing to mislead people guy, but this was already posted directly, not second hand that these were made by them for the china market.
With you already knowing this fact, it is misleading to even suggest otherwise.
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The statement further says "we guess" the picture is from china ?
What is my shop workbench doing in china.
Mrodair boxes are clear in the background.
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Either they have our airguns in the carette factory, or we have those compressors in our shop.
A little common sense please.
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The quote is direct from the manufacturer's translator.
Anyways, the Carette 4500 is a great machine. If deciding to purchase one based on what I found in my testing and tear down, be certain you are getting the genuine article from a reputable source.
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I agree,
We are torturing ours now and hope to have a inclusive video on them this weekend.
I very much appreciate your review and do in no way mean to take from it.
This has been in the works for quite some time for us as well as the small "Tuxing" type which we passed on do to frequent service.
As for our service, it is being improved as we go and no doubt still needs ALOT of improment.
Keeping our "feet to the fire" is a good thing and we hope to be adding 2 more to our staff in the next 5-6 weeks for that purpose.
It has taken a while, as we didn't want just someone off the street with no knowledge of our products.
Thanks Again for your work.
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Newbies, especially, be very careful out there.
Some are happy to take advantage of you while being absolutely OK with themselves.
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Joe Brancato at AirTanksForSale is now the exclusive dealer for the real Carrette compressors!
This pairs two entities, in whom one can trust, together. Definitely a great development for air gunners I think.
Finally, a decent mid-range compressor along with good, US support from a trustworthy dealer.
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Do you know when they will be available through JoeB?
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The manufacturer was saying the new configuration, production batch wouldn't be coming out of factory until end of Feb or March for their introductory special. Now that they are working with Joe, I don't know if things have changed. Best to inquire with Joe.
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Thank you very much for the extensive review with photos !
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What do you estimate the rebuild/service interval?
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I can't give an estimate in MTBF. What I can say is....
My usage, as a single air gunner, is topping up a Great White from 3000 to 4500 about once a month.
The test unit got through the equivalent of two years of my usage without any appreciable wear in the section most prone to wear failure, the high pressure cylinder.
I could observe no reason the compressor should need rebuild before a few times that usage.
The lack of high pressure rings to wear out is a huge design leap for this level of compressor. That is a big difference from the easily observed high pressure ring erosion that happens in higher RPM, 2 cylinder, phenolic ringed machines in just a hour or two of operation. Running so dramatically cooler and at a low RPM really lessen stress and wear for the Carette. Unlike its high rev peers with rings, you shouldn't need to rebuild the high pressure cylinder of the Carette for a very long time.
In a single user usage role, I would expect at least five years of service. With proper care, it's probably going to be quite a bit more than that. Personally, I would expect a unit to be still running at ten years, but we're just guessing.
Use actual dive compressor oil. Keep it at the correct level and change the oil regularly. Compressor oil does not darken as it ages. Just change it every year or when hours operation reach manufacturer recommended hours, whichever happens first.
Also, I would always let the compressor run for 2-3 minutes with its vents open AFTER each use. That will clear the cylinders of residual humidity, especially important given our long intervals between uses.
Here is the manufacturer maintenance schedule...
You definitely get the impression they are expecting a lot more use than I put in as a single shooter.
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Wow...great review. Just now found it. Thanks!
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Thanks.
I'm looking forward to hearing from people with production units. They should be arriving in the next few weeks.
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I'm number 2 on Bosun's list so I am looking forward to putting it in action in the next few weeks.
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I'm somewhere on that list as well....last communication I had with him stated that the units would be ready to ship........The 25th (Today)!
DJ
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I am also on the earlybird list, & haven't heard anything from Bosun, yet , but hoping every day , the only reason for making the decision was Guykuo's great write up. , roger
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Latest word on delivery timing....
Their motor suppliers were delayed delivering the motors for the compressors....
.....Today Sincere is going to receive the first batch of motors from Shanghai factory which is for Joe's first order.
And the motors from another factory in Fujian province just send out the motors yesterday. I guess after two or three days Sincere will receive them. Those are for early list buyers.
So basically, the early list buyers shall receive the compressor around 10th to 15th,April.
And Brancato may receive the first batch around early May.
We are really sorry for all the delay.
Best Regards,
Bosun
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Some knockoff maker taking all the motors.
Marko
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I spoke to Adam who works with Joe B today to check on my order. I was told they expect their first delivery for late next week and they should begin shipping out to customers on the pre order list the week of April 10, 2017 . I'm on the east coast so it will probably take a week for them to arrive. I'm pretty confident waiting for this one was the right choice in this price range. My grandfather use to tell us when he was a kid everyone who could had to be their own mechanics to keep the car running. I'm hopeful we can get away from that with the Carette. The other similar priced units are being rebuilt every 50 to 100 hours and while that's not that difficult who needs the headache.
Keep them coming Joe I am ready
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Some knockoff maker taking all the motors.
Marko
Knockoff? What do you mean? I don't see any 'Knockoff' Compressor yet.
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I think the theory goes that anyone other than Joe selling the carette is a knockoff... To be honest, this one looks very similar to my untrained eye: http://yhst-139878093962642.stores.yahoo.net/aimkivdescco.html (http://yhst-139878093962642.stores.yahoo.net/aimkivdescco.html)
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Now that is just dumb. All joe is doing is shipping these compressors here, add a few hundred dollars as profit, and shipping them to your door. There is no 'Knockoff' going on here.
I'm not angry or anything, i just hate to see that people think everything from China is a knockoff
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Now that is just dumb. All joe is doing is shipping these compressors here, add a few hundred dollars as profit, and shipping them to your door. There is no 'Knockoff' going on here.
I'm not angry or anything, i just hate to see that people think everything from China is a knockoff
The Carette is from China I believe. That is where they are made I believe. Does not mean they or any other ones are "knock-off" models. It is just a style of high pressure compressors. Lower quality materials could be used to make the prices lower, but how does one really know what they are made of until they get one and run it for a period of time. I bought an Omega Supercharger, guess what is written on the side of the box...."Made in China". Does not mean it's junk by any means. That is just where it is manufactured. I did my research before ordering one and was confident it would meet my needs in a home compressor so I purchased it. Are there other compressors out there that look like an Omega for less? I'm certain that there is, but I bought from a reputable dealer that is endorsed here at GTA. That was all I needed to know I was getting the best because only the best dealers are endorsed here.
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Looks the same and and acts the same but is it the same?
Carrette manufacturer went trough the trouble and sent one person at tag a sample unit to evaluate namely guykuo.
And told he is the original designer of the compressor that was evaluated, and all of a sudden someone who has a questionable reputation on sellin even more questionable compressors has a product that looks the same, same but slightly different, so I will call it a knockoff.
And in the mean time carrette manufacturer has made deal with JoeB to distribute for them?
Go check on tag what's what.
Marko
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The actual Carette manufacturer and developer of the compressor put in the time, work, and development effort to create the Carette compressor. They have selected Joe Brancato as their only US distributor. When they learned of someone making similar looking compressors being sold, they are understandably upset. China has a horrible problem with knock-offs. Unscrupulous individuals are very good at making things look nearly identical. Where the legitimate manufacturer is located makes no difference. They are still being ripped off.
These compressors must safely work at 4500 PSI and you're taking a risk going with unknown build quality. If you buy a clone, you have no idea what build quality or materials are being used. You're also supporting the low life cloners. The legitimate manufacturer is using quality parts and working with a dealership that will stand behind the product.
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So we have 2 choices on these similar looking compressors.
From what I can tell they look almost identical (Not a professional compressor inspector)
The claims are identical
The price is almost identical
Why would someone take the chance on the untested version; clone or not?
This in depth review sold me as I was having a tough time between this compressor and the Omega Air charger.
I don't have a lot of expendable cash so when I make a large purchase like this, I expect to get my money's worth.
An email was sent to Joe B. today putting my name on the list for the next shipment.
Keep in mind that if this review would have been done on the "clone" version, with the same results, a compressor from Mrodair would possibly be heading to my residence.
2 cents :D
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Thx for your elaborate work on reviewing this new compressor. I'm sure by now in Holland & Belgium they have been following up on what you ve established.
I have a question for you on identification of the compressor you have reviewed. Here in the Lowlands a new Chinese compressor is being introduced by its importer.
(https:) //luchtbuks.com/nl/lbc-300-bar-compressor-internal-cooling
Would you say the compressor shown in the above link, is exactly the same compressor, coming from exactly the same origin as the one you have described and reviewed here? or is it perhaps the 'lookalike' compressor? I would just like to be sure. Can you pls tell me?
Thx.
PS : At trying to post, i ve just now been informed i cannot post external links (so i have to leave out https: in the reference) , but would you pls have a look at the site of the importer for Holland & Belgium, which is luchtbuks.com , googling my reference to the link. Thx alot.
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It looks right, but I really can't tell externally.
I will ask the Carette manufacture whether that is their distributor for Belgium and Holland.
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I don't know explicitly either, but that most certainly is their YouTube advertising....
DJ
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Got confirmation from Bosun that it's legit.
They are the sole distributor in Europe.
Just got their first 30 units in stock in the Netherlands.
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Has anyone got theirs yet?
And if so what do you think of it?
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Got confirmation from Bosun that it's legit.
They are the sole distributor in Europe.
Just got their first 30 units in stock in the Netherlands.
Thx Guy. Appreciate that.
A nice weekend, to you and your family.
And to all others on GTA. Great little club here.
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So whats the update on this thread?
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One of the "early birds" reported on TAG forum reports he has gotten a tracking number and is expecting delivery the 20th.
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Looky looky here!
DJ
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Sweet.
Who did you get it from?
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The manufactures direct Eric....
DJ
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[/quote]Looky looky here!
DJ
............. Derrick, ok what is your opinion on the unit now that you have it ? mine is supposed to be here tomorrow (monday )
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The one tank that I have filled so far (2900-4500) was smooth as ice....The unit is beautiful!..Robust machining,gorgeous logical layout, and .....QUIET!!....you simply will NOT believe how quiet it is...off all of the videos that I had seen of the Carette, none of them gives you a real sense of it's sound in 1st person....
Now that the weather is warm, my shooting will ramp up....which means more air used, more tanks to fill.....I hope to be using this one for long, long, time!
DJ
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Sweet~ Mine just arrived this morning, but of course I forgot to order some high quality oil for it so I'll have to wait till that arrives before I can play with my new toy ::)
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Don't use regular motor oil or synthetic motor oil. You need high pressure air compressor oil like https://www.augustindustries.com/shopexd.asp?id=613&bc=no (https://www.augustindustries.com/shopexd.asp?id=613&bc=no)
or the Coltri equivalent.
The high pressure compressor oil is formulated to resist detonation at the high pressure/temperature of a high pressure compressor. Motor oils are not suitable for this application.
=====
Tank Filling procedure...
roper filling is to start with the tank main valve and tank fill whip bleed valve closed.
Close the bleed at the top of the PMV, but open the manual drain at the water/oil separator.
Set the auto shutoff pressure to 4500.
Start the compressor. Because the drain valve is open, it will see no load. Let it warm up for about 10-15 seconds to distribute its oil before it gets loaded.
Close the drain valve. The pressure will steadily rise in the compressor. You should see the Carette gauge gradually rise. At the point the PMV opens, you will notice the rate of pressure rise drop for a moment. That's probably around 2200 PSI.
Let the pressure continue to build to approximately equal to your tank pressure. Gradually open the tank valve to full opening. This lets compressed air enter the tank. The timing of opening the tank when the compressor reaches tank pressure is to avoid suddenly loading the compressor with full tank pressure.
Don't keep the compressor running too long without a path for air to exit. You don't want to over pressure the compressor. The auto shut off should kick in before something goes awry, but it is best to keep an eye on things until you know all is functioning well. On my first run, I intentionally set the auto shutoff low so I could verify its function.
During tank filling, the Carette pressure gauge should read pretty close to what your tank gauge reads. If they are grossly mismatched, something is impeding flow and/or you have a leak at the fill whip bleed. If the gauges are way off match, stop the compressor and troubleshoot before continuing.
You will see the pressure in the compressor rise as the tank fills.
Let the Carette auto drain fire every 10 minutes for about 2-3 seconds. You can also manually drain the separator, but the auto drain should do the work for you.
Once the tank reaches fill target pressure (4500 PSI), turn off the compressor.
Close the tank main valve.
Open the manual drain valve and bleed valve at the top of the PMV.
Turn on the Carette and let it run for 3-4 minutes without a load to clear out its cylinders of any residual moisture.
Turn off Carette and close the drain and PMV drain.
Open your tank bleed valve to ensure the hose is depressurized.
Disconnect tank
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I've got Chemlube 751 on the way after doing a lot of reading over the past few months. Of course I could've ordered it sooner, but my procrastination always gets the best of me ;D
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Sounds like you'll be all set.
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I picked mine up from fedx 30 mile round trip. BUT the latches were broke on the lid,it was loose, in fact the fedx girl brought it to my attention, she & here male helper loaded it in my truck while I was showing my drivers lic & signing for it, I am not even sure everything is included , if anyone has a pic of the contents , would you please post them ? this not worthy bigtime, I am going to wait to order oil till I can confirm that I have everything.
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might be easier if you posted picts of the crate contents
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might be easier if you posted picts of the crate contents
I will take some tomorrow , it is still in the truck, I have a bad left hand & shoulder, cant move it till I can get some help tomorrow.. really wanted to today , but had to get my semi truck ready to start the construction season& ran out of time..
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I received one of the early bird Carette's yesterday from FEDEX. My crate had been busted open as well and the lid was not sealed shut when they delivered it. One of the braces was broken but it held and no damage was done to the compressor. All of the contents were there. It included a plastic bubble wrapped final output filter, a bag with the hoses, desiccant, charcoal, and spare filter spacers made out of thick round white fiberous cotton, a bag with the owner's manual, and a bag containing the manual drain, a double male hose connector, and replacement round copper inserts for the burst disk. It also had white delrin O-ring replacements for the hoses in the same bag. That's it.
My assumption is that the goons in either Chinese export customs or U.S. import customs broke open the crates for inspection to make sure there was no contraband inside. I don't think FEDEX would break open the crates to do an inspection. The Carette people sealed the latches and locked them in place. The custom goons don't care to take a second extra to open them without just breaking the latches to do a quick inspection. In spite of the crate being handled roughly, my Carette was perfect and my impression after assembly and testing is that this is the best bang for the buck compressor there is for tank owners. I have owned a Shoebox Max, Shoebox F8, a full sized Bauer professional compressor, and closely studied the Omega, Nimrodair, Air Venturi, and the Altaros. The Carette has the most features, is the quietest, least stressed, and more closely resembles a true dive compressor than any of the others at a competitive price for the hobbyist user. Actually seeing and using the Carette has exceeded my expectations of it's build quality and potential. It is exceeding quiet and just exudes quality throughout. It is the closest thing to plug and play there is and it should be a winner in the marketplace.
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For your guys that have the compressor. What are you using for moisture removal? Thanks
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Ignore the compressor in this picture.....The blue filter on the right is what I use...purchased from a gentleman on another forum (I think they are readily available)....PLUS Carette sends one with the unit....it too looks pretty effective...
DJ
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DJ, thanks for the info.
I would like to know it the moisture filter that you said comes with the compressor, is it part of the standard package or at an additional cost?
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David,
I'm not sure how Joe from air tanks for sale is packaging them ( he is the only official authorized distributor for the Carette). I would shoot him a quick call.
My unit came from the manufacturer direct ( China).
DJ
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http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/ (http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/)
Taken from the other Chinese compressor thread. Anyone know more about this? Yeah, I know JoeB is gonna come in and wail on me, but to save $400 on the same item is to save $400, straight up. I'd love to buy from Mr. Joe, but money is money and I might even go the cheap route with the $65 HP filter being linked on AliExpress. Sure, it may blow up and kill me dead, but so possibly could Joe's Carette, if they are in fact the same item.
Looking on Joe's site with all the fixin's including a Great White and his Alpha filter puts me up around $2,500 plus. His site is somewhat hard to figure the deals. No, I'm not a moron, but it does take some thinking to get a final price with the various packages.
I would definitely trust buying from Joe, though, but I'm not made of money and if I can save a buck or two by shopping around, I will.
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http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/ (http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/)
Taken from the other Chinese compressor thread. Anyone know more about this? Yeah, I know JoeB is gonna come in and wail on me, but to save $400 on the same item is to save $400, straight up. I'd love to buy from Mr. Joe, but money is money and I might even go the cheap route with the $65 HP filter being linked on AliExpress. Sure, it may blow up and kill me dead, but so possibly could Joe's Carette, if they are in fact the same item.
Looking on Joe's site with all the fixin's including a Great White and his Alpha filter puts me up around $2,500 plus. His site is somewhat hard to figure the deals. No, I'm not a moron, but it does take some thinking to get a final price with the various packages.
I would definitely trust buying from Joe, though, but I'm not made of money and if I can save a buck or two by shopping around, I will.
Actually it looks just like the one Mrodair has on their sight but cheaper (even has the same sticker on the drive guard).
I agree with the idea of saving money but messing with 4500 psi is no time to cut corners!!! In one of my lines of work, I have to deal with Chinese copies all the time. Some look and perform just like the original at a fraction of the cost. Others are not even close! Some of my customers stop by to gloat when they find a cheaper price somewhere else. They are very excited until I show them the differences between what they bought and the real thing. Some are happy, some are not.
I still feel like $1000 is a lot of money and I would hate to waist it on something that isn't gonna last or perform as well as the original...IMO
Whatever you decide, be careful!
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David-I agree with you 100%. What does bug me is that IMO there are also vendors that exploit the desire for a proven, safe product by boosting prices unreasonably and hard selling additional equipment, also at exorbitant prices, that may not be desired or necessarily needed. That's not acceptable to me either.
MY opinion, just sayin'. ;)
Ed
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The Chinese are not the Europeans they don't believe in MAP pricing AKA price fixing, They want the fast dime not the slow buck. When they get control of the air gun market the prices will fall. As to the compressors, I expect another dozen models in the next couple years. They too will be priced to sell and the US dealers will have to compete with a new set of rules.
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David,
I'm not sure how Joe from air tanks for sale is packaging them ( he is the only official authorized distributor for the Carette). I would shoot him a quick call.
My unit came from the manufacturer direct ( China).
DJ
So are you saying your purchased yours from this link?
http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/] [url]http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/ (http://[url)[/url]
If so, how long did it take to get after order? As to my original question about the filter, I did call and found out that it is another $300 to get the filter. All this adds up in a hurry.
I had a Daystate/Coltri 220v that I sold after owning for 8 moths for $2200. It was someone on this site that bought it from me. The only reason I got rid of it was it was 220 and not as portable and was very loud. A smaller, lighter, quieter, & 110v is very appealing for $1400 but not without effective moister removal, and that's when the Carette starts loosing its appeal. My hand pump will have to serve me for now I guess until things change a bit.
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But I had thought the carrette comes with a filter? Atleast I can see one in guykuos review.
Its not the biggest filter but should work none the less.
Marko
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I have been in the market for a compressor for a while. I have spent countless hours searching, reading, and changing my mind. I even contemplated renting a nitrogen tank and use that instead of air (this really would solve all of my problems). My final 2 was between the Omega and the Carette. These 2 choices were decided upon by reliability, safety, product support, and quality. I have seen good reviews and comments about both and very little negative. The Omega didn't come with a final filter and the Carette did (I believe even the knockoffs do).
After adding the cost of the Omega with filter, it wasn't much cheaper than the Carette. I made a few phone calls and read a little more. If you decide on the Carette, call Joe B and mention you are on the GTA. He passed a little savings on to members of this forum (I think the offer still stands).
Anyway, I put my name on the list for the Carette a while back but if I start seeing posts about quality issues, I may change my mind again.
I don't think its a "one size fits all" solution for everyone since everyone has different criteria.
What does bug me is that IMO there are also vendors that exploit the desire for a proven, safe product by boosting prices unreasonably and hard selling additional equipment, also at exorbitant prices, that may not be desired or necessarily needed. That's not acceptable to me either.
MY opinion, just sayin'. ;)
Ed, I agree with you. I feel that this hobby is very expensive. Small markets make prices go up I guess! I sometimes think I am a little crazy for spending so much hard earned money to get a small chunk of lead to hit a target, and I don't even own any " high end" pellet slingers; yet ::)
As long as the demand is there, the price will be high. As for the "clone" Carettes, its gonna be a lottery pick. From what I have been told by a number of my distributers, copyright laws in China are not the same as in the states. If another factory can produce the same looking item, that does the same job, then its legal. It doesn't matter if the item is of the same quality as the original.
Disclaimer: I don't work for anyone in the airgun industry. Just another guy, with opinions, that loves this hobby and wants the most bang __uh or__ pfffftt for my buck!
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David,
I'm not sure how Joe from air tanks for sale is packaging them ( he is the only official authorized distributor for the Carette). I would shoot him a quick call.
My unit came from the manufacturer direct ( China).
DJ
So are you saying your purchased yours from this link?
[url=http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/]http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/] [url]http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/]http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/]http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/] [url]http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/ (http://[url=http://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/)[/url]
If so, how long did it take to get after order? As to my original question about the filter, I did call and found out that it is another $300 to get the filter. All this adds up in a hurry.
I had a Daystate/Coltri 220v that I sold after owning for 8 moths for $2200. It was someone on this site that bought it from me. The only reason I got rid of it was it was 220 and not as portable and was very loud. A smaller, lighter, quieter, & 110v is very appealing for $1400 but not without effective moister removal, and that's when the Carette starts loosing its appeal. My hand pump will have to serve me for now I guess until things change a bit.
David,
I did NOT purchase from that link....
During the time that Guyko was sent an evaluation unit (thread can be found on the TAG forum), the manufacturer was VERY involved with the thread.....there came a point after the unit passed the "sniff" test with flying colors., that the manufacturer made an early group buy offer....I was an early participant in on that deal......so again, mine came from the source itself. As far as length of time, once the units were built and ready to ship, it was at my door in a week and a half.
DJ
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I'm curious how Joe B. is attaching the Alphafilter to the unit. For the price I would expect something more than zip ties or duct tape.
I realize this was the test set up but I expect something better than tape.
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb403/guykuo1/carette/test%20setup_zpsekvtd1ae.jpg)
Hose clamps are a bit better but I expect something better.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=121231.0;attach=185640;image)
Would be nice to see Joe B's units he is shipping out.
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Whats wrong with hoseclamps, i have filter attached to my coltri with hoseclamps.
Marko
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What is the recommended oil for the compressor? I see that Mr. Guy used Bauer compressor oil but not really any specs.
I would like to have it waiting before the compressor arrives.
Thanks guys for all of the input!
Steve L, I attempted to reply to your email but was unable to as the email came back undeliverable. Just don't want you to think I am ignoring you ;)
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What is the recommended oil for the compressor?
I use Chemlube 751 synthetic compressor oil. The stuff isn't cheap, but it gets a lot of recommendations from what I have been reading. I think the Nuvair 751 is very similar also.
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Seems he is selling a bare bones unit for $1399 plus shipping, not the one Guy tested.
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I am very interested in one. But until I can make sure I know what the base unit ($1400) includes as far as moister removal and MPV and such, I will continue to use what I have.
Maybe someone that has purchased a base unit from Joe will chime in on what they actually got.
His site is extremely confusing and all over the place. Talking to him, I was told I will need the $300 adder to get a moister removal filter plus a couple of other items and that the description on his site was (not accurate).
Maybe Joe B can clarify all this.
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Seems he is selling a bare bones unit for $1399 plus shipping, not the one Guy tested.
Seems that that one would work just fine with a few dollars left over to spend on pellets.
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I am very interested in one. But until I can make sure I know what the base unit ($1400) includes as far as moister removal and MPV and such, I will continue to use what I have.
Maybe someone that has purchased a base unit from Joe will chime in on what they actually got.
His site is extremely confusing and all over the place. Talking to him, I was told I will need the $300 adder to get a moister removal filter plus a couple of other items and that the description on his site was (not accurate).
Maybe Joe B can clarify all this.
Agreed.
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I too am on the fence about buying one.
I need to see more details in print. Not "Call me for more information"
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>w.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/#prettyPhoto<<
Taken from the other Chinese compressor thread. Anyone know more about this? Yeah, I know JoeB is gonna come in and wail on me, but to save $400 on the same item is to save $400, straight up. I'd love to buy from Mr. Joe, but money is money and I might even go the cheap route with the $65 HP filter being linked on AliExpress. Sure, it may blow up and kill me dead, but so possibly could Joe's Carette, if they are in fact the same item.
Looking on Joe's site with all the fixin's including a Great White and his Alpha filter puts me up around $2,500 plus. His site is somewhat hard to figure the deals. No, I'm not a moron, but it does take some thinking to get a final price with the various packages.
I would definitely trust buying from Joe, though, but I'm not made of money and if I can save a buck or two by shopping around, I will.
I checked out the link above, that unit is listed as a 220 volt. I sent an Email to the company inquiring about the 110 volt unit, we'll see. I agree 400 bucks is a lot of money, however thats not the total, he wants 400 + 99. shipping. The unit direct from China is shipped free to your address for a thousand bucks. That to me is a 500 difference. The pmv is made in China and can be bought also. The auto condensate drain is just a whistle and bells attachment that I can live without. All this chatter about filters is just that, I had an Omega that worked gust fine without any filter at all, and a manual condensate drain. It appears he is selling the basic unit for fifteen hundred.
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I just re-read Joe's site about the Karette compressor. That price includes the PMV and auto drain.
"ALPHA-CARETTE PCP COMPRESSOR ONLY $1395
Stand Alone Unit pumps quickly and quietly.
Our are the same models as tested and reported on the forums, with auto-condensate drain and Pressure Maintaining Valve (PMV)
Tops off a 97 Cu Ft Great White 3000 to 4500 PSI in about 36 minutes (Tiger in 24 minutes)
Fills a 97 Cu Ft Great White 0 to 4500 PSI in ONLY 1.8 Hr (Tiger in 1.2 Hr)
Automatic Shutoff can be set from 0-4500 PSI
110V for use anywhere
Available with Optional High Quality Moisture/Air Filter
click here for Filter Info
1 Year Warranty
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The ad copy on the Yellow is rather confusing as well. I'm trying to get things clarified.
WITH the PMV and auto-drain the base package is a good value.
Without the PMV and auto-drain is a different ballgame.
I'm pretty sure Sincere and company weren't planning to ship any stripped down units to the US.
So, it's probably really unfortunate ad copy confusing the situation.
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A phone call to airtanksforsale yielded the following quote of approx 1850 shipped w/tax for the base unit. They indicated the base unit was 1395. No auto or pmv. As of 5/5/17. Now if joeB could manage having them drop shipped from China for the 1400ish w/ auto and pmv then great. But 1850 is too close to too much.
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Lots of confusion but Joe cleared it up in his vendor gate:
Was this thread dedicated only to pre-orders or are we still in "pre-order" status? Was this for a different introductory price or same price listed on ATFS at $1395 and is that a shipped price or is that a belt-load extra? Thanks.
We are updating the website. Here is what we will do for GTA Members.
We are updating the websites with the following prices
$1799 for Carette with Alpha Filter, Auto-Condensate Drain (ACD) and Pressure Maintaining Valve (PMV) (we call this the Fully Loaded Version)
$1399 for Carette without Alpha Filter, Auto-Condensate Drain (ACD) and Pressure Maintaining Valve (PMV) (We call this the Economy version)
Shipping is not included.
If you mention the GTA when you call, we will offer the following prices
$1699 for Carette with Alpha Filter, Auto-Condensate Drain (ACD) and Pressure Maintaining Valve (PMV) (we call this the Fully Loaded Version)
$1399 for Carette WITH Auto-Condensate Drain (ACD) and Pressure Maintaining Valve (PMV). Filter is not included. (We call this the GTA version)
Shipping is not included.
This offer for special pricing is good until the end of June.
NOTE: We are currently shipping units, and more are arriving every couple of weeks. The first few shipments were/are shipped via Air Freight to get them to customers ASAP.
Call us at 714-907-0067 if you wish to place an order.
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I checked today and got things clarified.
The base Carette without PMV and autodrain is $1399 + shipping.
However, IF AND ONLY IF YOU MENTION THE FORUMS while ordering, they will include the PMV and autodrain for $1399 + shipping.
Being a forum member really helps out.
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Also, the current shipments of compressors arriving at JB's do NOT have the Carette filter with them. That was supplied by the manufacturer just for the early birds.
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Also, the current shipments of compressors arriving at JB's do NOT have the Carette filter with them. That was supplied by the manufacturer just for the early birds.
Bummer. >:(
Good to know.
No offense to Joe. Something beyond his control I'm sure.
My plan was to use it & the Alpha filter together.
It's the things like that make it a yea or ney.
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Don't use regular motor oil or synthetic motor oil. You need high pressure air compressor oil like https://www.augustindustries.com/shopexd.asp?id=613&bc=no (https://www.augustindustries.com/shopexd.asp?id=613&bc=no)
or the Coltri equivalent.
The high pressure compressor oil is formulated to resist detonation at the high pressure/temperature of a high pressure compressor. Motor oils are not suitable for this application.
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Tank Filling procedure...
roper filling is to start with the tank main valve and tank fill whip bleed valve closed.
Close the bleed at the top of the PMV, but open the manual drain at the water/oil separator.
Set the auto shutoff pressure to 4500.
Start the compressor. Because the drain valve is open, it will see no load. Let it warm up for about 10-15 seconds to distribute its oil before it gets loaded.
Close the drain valve. The pressure will steadily rise in the compressor. You should see the Carette gauge gradually rise. At the point the PMV opens, you will notice the rate of pressure rise drop for a moment. That's probably around 2200 PSI.
Let the pressure continue to build to approximately equal to your tank pressure. Gradually open the tank valve to full opening. This lets compressed air enter the tank. The timing of opening the tank when the compressor reaches tank pressure is to avoid suddenly loading the compressor with full tank pressure.
Don't keep the compressor running too long without a path for air to exit. You don't want to over pressure the compressor. The auto shut off should kick in before something goes awry, but it is best to keep an eye on things until you know all is functioning well. On my first run, I intentionally set the auto shutoff low so I could verify its function.
During tank filling, the Carette pressure gauge should read pretty close to what your tank gauge reads. If they are grossly mismatched, something is impeding flow and/or you have a leak at the fill whip bleed. If the gauges are way off match, stop the compressor and troubleshoot before continuing.
You will see the pressure in the compressor rise as the tank fills.
Let the Carette auto drain fire every 10 minutes for about 2-3 seconds. You can also manually drain the separator, but the auto drain should do the work for you.
Once the tank reaches fill target pressure (4500 PSI), turn off the compressor.
Close the tank main valve.
Open the manual drain valve and bleed valve at the top of the PMV.
Turn on the Carette and let it run for 3-4 minutes without a load to clear out its cylinders of any residual moisture.
Turn off Carette and close the drain and PMV drain.
Open your tank bleed valve to ensure the hose is depressurized.
Disconnect tank
Hi Guykuo, I have the Carette but I haven't started it yet since Im still trying to figure out the best way to install the glycerin on the gauge. Any suggestions or techniques? I tried the 60 ml syringe with the nitro fuel tubing from my model airplanes but the fill hole is bigger than the fuel tubing.I was thinking of using the duct seal to seal the gap on the tubing but is concerned some of the duct seal might get inside the gauge. I tried to use the wrench to turn the gauge but it is so tight. Thanks in advance
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Sorry, been away.
Current recommendation from the factory is NOT to fill the gauge with glycerin.
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I did fill it up to the lowest needle gauge since I kept missing up the fill procedure(spillage).I was even wondering the conductivity of glycerin since I see exposed wire contacts inside the pressure gauge. I wonder if there is a catastrophic event when those wire get shorted out. Okay thanks for letting me know. Now I have to drain the glycerin. Is draining the glycerin safe enough? Do I need to rinse/ air dry it? Should I contact the manufacturer? Do you have their email address?
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The issue regarding the glycerin is leakage of the glycerin, not a explosion hazard. If you already filled it, emptying it back out is probably sufficient. If it's not leaking and you leave the glycerin, just be willing to watch for messy leakage if the stopper fails.
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Thanks for the assurance. How about the exposed wires inside the gauge soaked in glycerin?
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The gauge handles doesn't directly handle the high current/voltages. It signals the controller box which handles the actual power switching. I don't think there is a spark hazard in the gauge. If you're asking whether the wire insulation will hold up submerged in glycerin, I don't have actual data on the insulation material for the internal wiring. However, I doubt the glycerin would degrade the insulation. The essentially identical cutoff gauges on the (awful) Mrodair was OK with glycerin and had to handle full supply voltage.
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Mr Google told me that pure glycerin is non conductive.leaking is not a concern for me but oxidation on the dials are.the YouTube Carette is see or the clones have glycerin. I'll start the pump today.
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I finally drained the glycerin. It was leaking inside the connector plug and not from the filler cap. Filled it will oil and coolant. I did run it for 11 minutes but the pressure never goes up above 1700. The automatic bleeder works. How long is the delay for the pressure to go above 2000?.
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MY Carette stays in the 1700 psi for like 5-10 minutes. And never goes up. Is that normal? I just stop the machine I'm afraid something might blow up. Highest cylinder temp is 140 degrees.I'm calling Joe B tomorrow.
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Provided there isn't a leak, it will go above the 1700 PSI point in about 2-3 minutes. Check that all the connections with some soapy water to find the leak.
I am assuming you have the basics done.
1. Teflon tape to effect the seal on the water separator manual drain.
2. Output connected to a tank and not just sitting with its end free.
3. Manual bleed valves at the PMV is also closed.
4. RE-Check all the connections with soapy water to ensure there are no leaks. Start at the high cylinder output and check pipe and fitting in sequence. You'll probably find a leak.
***** NEVER TIGHTEN CONNECTIONS WITH THE COMPRESSOR PRESSURIZED. ALWAYS DEPRESSURIZE BEFORE WORKING ON ANY FITTINGS!!!!! ******
5. Pressure isn't climbing on your tank gauge differently from the compressor gauge. This would indicate a bad gauge.
For these high pressure, low volume compressors, a tiny leak will stop pressure from rising.
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I didn't connect to a tank since my tank is at 4000 psi and the compressor at 1700. The manual doesn't mention the Green Arrow gauge dial.I played with it but nothing happens also. Okay thanks will check for leak today.
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If you didn't connect it to a tank (or a dead head) the end of the hose is WIDE OPEN. You won't see the pressure rise any further that the set point of the PMV. This is normal function.
Only when there is RESISTANCE to the output will pressure build further.
The compressor should not and will not go above its PMV set pressure WITHOUT a load. That's like pumping on your HILL pump without a gun cylinder connected and expecting the pump's pressure gauge to climb.
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The hose is connected to the Alpha filter. I thought and per manual to wait for the pressure in the pump to equal to the tank before opening the tank valve.
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"I didn't connect to a tank since my tank is at 4000 psi and the compressor at 1700"
I really do not understand what you actually have connected at this point.
>>>> IS THERE A DEAD HEAD OR TANK at the end of the entire connection sequence? <<<<
There HAS to be dead head or a tank (whether with its valve open or closed) for there to be any back resistance to build up pressure beyond what the PMV's are set at. The Alpha has a PMV (well most versions of it anyway) and bleed valve(s) that need to be also closed.
Yes, you open the tank valve once the compressor gets close to the tank pressure. The tank MUST be connected for pressure to build up to that level.
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Sorry for the trouble.I'm a PCP hPa newbie. I spoke to Jo B right before I opened your reply. I realized now that I have to connect the tank for the pressure to build up, then slowly open the tank valve. Thanks a bunch Guykuo.
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Thanks Guykuo. It's WORKING now! I don't have to drive to that paintball place and pay $25 each time. Now to figure out how to charge my steel scuba tank 3442 psi with the right connector and it doesn't have the tank pressure gauge.
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Glad you got it up and going.
I was getting perplexed, but now it's clear what was going on.
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I have owned a Shoebox Max, Shoebox F8, a full sized Bauer professional compressor, and closely studied the Omega, Nimrodair, Air Venturi, and the Altaros. The Carette has the most features, is the quietest, least stressed, and more closely resembles a true dive compressor than any of the others at a competitive price for the hobbyist user. Actually seeing and using the Carette has exceeded my expectations of it's buid quality and potential. It is exceeding quiet and just exudes quality throughout. It is the closest thing to plug and play there is and it should be a winner in the marketplace.
You owned a Bauer professional compressor and you are saying the Carette is better? Then why is Joe B still selling the Bauer compressors at 4-5k? I believe this is a nice compressor for the money but never thought it was better than a Bauer in build quality.
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Thanks Guykuo. It's WORKING now! I don't have to drive to that paintball place and pay $25 each time. Now to figure out how to charge my steel scuba tank 3442 psi with the right connector and it doesn't have the tank pressure gauge.
The cheapest way to fill that scuba tank is get a din300 to male foster connector. Depends on the head on the scuba tank. Some you can convert to female din 300 so you could use the adapter on the top photo for 53.00.
Or you might need the scuba yoke hose (has a gauge) but its 150.00.
If you trust the gauge on the compressor you can just fill based on its cutoff.
(http://puu.sh/wd24B/fbb3e4c35e.jpg)
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Finally had a chance to make the maden run on the Carette. Setup was quite easy, following this post even though some of the parts were slightly different. Filled it with fluids and let it run for 15 minutes without a load. Continued with another 5 minutes at 1800 psi. Filled my SCUBA tank from 2800 to 3500. Disconnected the tank and let run for an additional 5 minutes with no load. Worked great.
Two things to note... the low pressure cylinder gets warmer than the high cylinder, which I found odd. The other is that I can't tell if the cooling water is circulating since I removed all the air from the cooling system. I dont see a flow indicator but I assume if it wasnt working, I would have had more heat.
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I have owned a Shoebox Max, Shoebox F8, a full sized Bauer professional compressor, and closely studied the Omega, Nimrodair, Air Venturi, and the Altaros. The Carette has the most features, is the quietest, least stressed, and more closely resembles a true dive compressor than any of the others at a competitive price for the hobbyist user. Actually seeing and using the Carette has exceeded my expectations of it's buid quality and potential. It is exceeding quiet and just exudes quality throughout. It is the closest thing to plug and play there is and it should be a winner in the marketplace.
You owned a Bauer professional compressor and you are saying the Carette is better? Then why is Joe B still selling the Bauer compressors at 4-5k? I believe this is a nice compressor for the money but never thought it was better than a Bauer in build quality.
I believe he is saying the carette has the most features over the omega, air venturi and altaros and most closely resemble his bauer.
Not that its better than the bauer.
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Thanks Guykuo. It's WORKING now! I don't have to drive to that paintball place and pay $25 each time. Now to figure out how to charge my steel scuba tank 3442 psi with the right connector and it doesn't have the tank pressure gauge.
The cheapest way to fill that scuba tank is get a din300 to male foster connector. Depends on the head on the scuba tank. Some you can convert to female din 300 so you could use the adapter on the top photo for 53.00.
Or you might need the scuba yoke hose (has a gauge) but its 150.00.
If you trust the gauge on the compressor you can just fill based on its cutoff.
(http://puu.sh/wd24B/fbb3e4c35e.jpg)
Will the AirVenturi scuba yoke that I used to fill from my scuba tank to my Marauder with the K valve which is rated at 3000 psi work?
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Thanks Guykuo. It's WORKING now! I don't have to drive to that paintball place and pay $25 each time. Now to figure out how to charge my steel scuba tank 3442 psi with the right connector and it doesn't have the tank pressure gauge.
The cheapest way to fill that scuba tank is get a din300 to male foster connector. Depends on the head on the scuba tank. Some you can convert to female din 300 so you could use the adapter on the top photo for 53.00.
Or you might need the scuba yoke hose (has a gauge) but its 150.00.
If you trust the gauge on the compressor you can just fill based on its cutoff.
(http://puu.sh/wd24B/fbb3e4c35e.jpg)
Will the AirVenturi scuba yoke that I used to fill from my scuba tank to my Marauder with the K valve which is rated at 3000 psi work?
Thats what I am using except mine is a Ninja brand. Worked fine.
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Thanks Guykuo. It's WORKING now! I don't have to drive to that paintball place and pay $25 each time. Now to figure out how to charge my steel scuba tank 3442 psi with the right connector and it doesn't have the tank pressure gauge.
The cheapest way to fill that scuba tank is get a din300 to male foster connector. Depends on the head on the scuba tank. Some you can convert to female din 300 so you could use the adapter on the top photo for 53.00.
Or you might need the scuba yoke hose (has a gauge) but its 150.00.
If you trust the gauge on the compressor you can just fill based on its cutoff.
(http://puu.sh/wd24B/fbb3e4c35e.jpg)
Will the AirVenturi scuba yoke that I used to fill from my scuba tank to my Marauder with the K valve which is rated at 3000 psi work?
Thats what I am using except mine is a Ninja brand. Worked fine.
I would be careful on that. Filling from the tank to the gun only requires a 3000 psi rated parts. But Going from the compressor to the tank requires at least 4500 psi parts. I would check the ratings, don't go cheap using 3000 psi parts when charging to 4500 psi. You on a tightrope without a net man.
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RAJOD, I thought as long as you set the compressor to 3000 psi limit that it should be okay going to the AirVenturi 3000 psi scuba yoke. I'm waiting for the DIN300 to Foster adapter but it will not have the pressure gauge.
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RAJOD, I thought as long as you set the compressor to 3000 psi limit that it should be okay going to the AirVenturi 3000 psi scuba yoke. I'm waiting for the DIN300 to Foster adapter but it will not have the pressure gauge.
Oh yes that is fine thought you were filling over 3000. I thought you also were filling 4500 psi too so could easily get it all mixed up and use 3000 psi line while doing a 4500 psi fill. If they are all 4500 psi rate then you can screw up and not worry about OOPS. Yea that would work going to the scuba.
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Finally had a chance to make the maden run on the Carette. Setup was quite easy, following this post even though some of the parts were slightly different. Filled it with fluids and let it run for 15 minutes without a load. Continued with another 5 minutes at 1800 psi. Filled my SCUBA tank from 2800 to 3500. Disconnected the tank and let run for an additional 5 minutes with no load. Worked great.
Two things to note... the low pressure cylinder gets warmer than the high cylinder, which I found odd. The other is that I can't tell if the cooling water is circulating since I removed all the air from the cooling system. I dont see a flow indicator but I assume if it wasnt working, I would have had more heat.
Ok guys...I've got to chime in here....almost every description that I read of the process of filling a bottle already containing some air , I notice an important omission...when filling, before opening the compressor valve, are you waiting until the unit gets equal or greater to the pressure already in the bottle?...or is every one skipping this step?
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Finally had a chance to make the maden run on the Carette. Setup was quite easy, following this post even though some of the parts were slightly different. Filled it with fluids and let it run for 15 minutes without a load. Continued with another 5 minutes at 1800 psi. Filled my SCUBA tank from 2800 to 3500. Disconnected the tank and let run for an additional 5 minutes with no load. Worked great.
Two things to note... the low pressure cylinder gets warmer than the high cylinder, which I found odd. The other is that I can't tell if the cooling water is circulating since I removed all the air from the cooling system. I dont see a flow indicator but I assume if it wasnt working, I would have had more heat.
Ok guys...I've got to chime in here....almost every description that I read of the process of filling a bottle already containing some air , I notice an important omission...when filling, before opening the compressor valve, are you waiting until the unit gets equal or greater to the pressure already in the bottle?...or is every one skipping this step?
Djbriez, you are correct. Per the caret manual ( "when filling air to the gas cylinder, please check first whether the valve of cylinder is closed. When the pressure gauge of machine shows that the exhaust pressure is higher than the existing pressure, the valve of the vessel can be opened to supply , or the pressure may be reversed, which may cause the sudden stop and damage.) I read it and didn't understand so I called the dealer Joe B. which he said its okay to open the valve when its like 2200 but I wait until its 3000. Correct me if I'm very wrong.
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I simply always wait until the pressure is equal or greater to the pressure in the bottle....The good news is that's all the monitoring that I have to do with this bad boy!after that part is done, I carry on with whatever the heck I was doing.....
DJ
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Thanks to Guy Kuo and others I am getting this compressor. It should be here tomorrow. I've been a big proponent of hand pumping and had not intended to get a compressor yet since I'm only 68 :D ... but my 4th hand pump is going out and I'm not very handy or patient enough to rebuild one. I don't have a tank yet... maybe next year, so I will be filling my airguns directly from the compressor.
I was considering an ebay compressor, but I'm concerned about how long it would last. Might be the same situation I'm in now with my pumps.
I was considering a booster, but don't have a compressor to feed it and considering the additional cost it may be best to just buy a stand alone compressor. Also boosters seem to be slower. Right now that wouldn't be a problem since I don't have a tank, but down the road it may be a consideration.
For the money the Carette seems to be the best available, at least from what I've read. Hope it works out for a compressor newbe... Wish me luck!
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i'm really interested in this compressor i called air tanks 4 sale to ask for a quote on a package deal yesterday and was told i would have some prices mailed to me in 15 minutes but never got them. so today i mailed them with what i wanted to ask for quote still nothing.
very discouraging.
makes me wonder what kind of after the purchase service you'll receive if there was a problem especially sense i'm looking at spending $2500.00 to $3000.00
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i'm really interested in this compressor i called air tanks 4 sale to ask for a quote on a package deal yesterday and was told i would have some prices mailed to me in 15 minutes but never got them. so today i mailed them with what i wanted to ask for quote still nothing.
very discouraging.
makes me wonder what kind of after the purchase service you'll receive if there was a problem especially sense i'm looking at spending $2500.00 to $3000.00
Yes I agree that is quite strange. the absolute best service is usually on the sales end.
I am still in wait mode on these compressors. Its too early in the game, I applaud the early adopters as you pave the way for better future products and usually have to pay through the nose doing so.
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His email response is very slow. But he answers the phone call right away(owner) even after office hours. He has stated here in the other Gate that he doesn't monitor all of the Gates.
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His email response is very slow. But he answers the phone call right away(owner) even after office hours. He has stated here in the other Gate that he doesn't monitor all of the Gates.
I did call and talked to someone but still haven't heard back.
also sent a pm through this form still nothing
Maybe this is a sine i shouldn't buy
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I did call and talked to someone but still haven't heard back.
also sent a pm through this form still nothing
Maybe this is a sine i shouldn't buy
Joe is a great guy, I'm guessing you talked with one of his employees and since you mentioned the forums he had to check with Joe about forums specials,
give Joe a call and ask to speak with Joe he will answer your questions.
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I did call and talked to someone but still haven't heard back.
also sent a pm through this form still nothing
Maybe this is a sine i shouldn't buy
Joe is a great guy, I'm guessing you talked with one of his employees and since you mentioned the forums he had to check with Joe about forums specials,
give Joe a call and ask to speak with Joe he will answer your questions.
good advice! i called and to me disbelief he answered (yay) spoke with him and he explained that the email wasn't going through?
all's good and will be getting tracking# soon for
1) carette 4500 compressor
1) tiger 71 cu ft tiger shark with all the dressings
1) Regulated din300 hose assembly for tethering and tank fill
thanks for the advice and i will keep every one up to date on performance once it gets some run time
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Mine got here today. It came with a quart of oil so I was able to try it out. It also came with a syringe for filling the coolant line... the syringe was too big to do any good but I had a smaller one here. Filling the line and getting the air out was the hardest part of the setup. Joe has a couple of youtube videos that I watched a couple of times. The videos and this thread were far better than the manual, and made operating the compressor a piece of cake. Filled my Rainstorm II .30 in just a few minutes with no effort on my part.
I'm a happy guy! ;D
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Hi!
Do you know who are the providers outside of USA?
I'm very interested on buying this compressor..
I was looking a very similar or equal on 1ct1c.com but I didn't find any review/comment about buying from that Web
thanks
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I applaud the early adopters as you pave the way for better future products and usually have to pay through the nose doing so...
I paid dearly being an early adopter of the Mrodair Extreme compressor. You know, the true "three cylinder" one that only has two cylinders and has similar clones still being sold. That went pretty terribly and made me spend more time as an compressor mechanic than spotting. By the time I was done, I was 2/3 of the way to the cost of a Bauer. It really soured me on Chinese junk. Under design, over rev, and build with nearly zero safety features and you get a cheap compressor that makes you buy another, working, compressor in short order.
The Carette was a completely different experience. Testing showed me positives possible if one finds a Chinese manufacturer that actually cares about their product quality. Rather than do the same thing and promise a better result, they actually changed things in a smart manner and upped the build quality.
I'm glad there is finally this choice for air gunners.
Don't forget to change your oil as recommended and also run the Carette for a few minutes unloaded (with the water separator bleed valve open) after each usage session.
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Guy, what is the normal safe running temperature for the Carette? When do we let it shut off at what temperature? The highest I saw is from one of the cylinder bolt at 148 F.
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Hi!
Do you know who are the providers outside of USA?
I'm very interested on buying this compressor..
I was looking a very similar or equal on 1ct1c.com but I didn't find any review/comment about buying from that Web
thanks
I don't think you can go outside the USA. Joe is the sole USA distributor. If you attempt to buy from the company they will just refer you to Joe. I think they are priced a little high if you get that post filter. They use to sell one with an included post filter for 400.00 less but they since have taken that out of the equation but kept the price the same which adds 400.00 to the listed price.
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Thanks for the answer...the thing is...I'm living outside of USA ::) that's why I'm needing another vendor :)
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Thanks for the answer...the thing is...I'm living outside of USA ::) that's why I'm needing another vendor :)
Then I would get it through the company directly. They answer emails. I think they don't want to undercut USA distributors. But if you have a outside the USA address they would probably sell it to you factory direct or maybe another distributor.
Try this email and ask.
bosunhu1984 AT gmail.com
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This is where I bought mine from: https://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/ (https://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/) After ordering, they sent me an email saying they only have 220 volt models, and would refund my money, if I didn't want that. I responded that 220 volt was OK. After about 1 week, I emailed asking when it would ship, and they responded to my email with a tracking link. Received it a few days later. Compressor is very nice, well made, and mine came with the optional water separator installed, and extra packs of silica and charcoal, along with some spare parts. Hardest part was filling with water/coolant. Mine came with no oil, so I'm using some 10-30 full synthitic motor oil, for the break in period, then I'll drain and fill with some Royal Purple compressor oil. However, there is no drain plug that I can find. Guess I'll have to siphon the old oil out the fill hole? I've been using a Yong Heng compressor, and have no complaints about it, other than very high rpm, and noise. This Carette is quiet, compared to Yong Heng, runs slower, and stays cooler. Only had for one day, so more to come, "IF" I have any problems ;)
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This is where I bought mine from: https://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/ (https://www.1ct1c.com/product/big-tank-filled-air-compressor-10l-12l/) After ordering, they sent me an email saying they only have 220 volt models, and would refund my money, if I didn't want that. I responded that 220 volt was OK. After about 1 week, I emailed asking when it would ship, and they responded to my email with a tracking link. Received it a few days later. Compressor is very nice, well made, and mine came with the optional water separator installed, and extra packs of silica and charcoal, along with some spare parts. Hardest part was filling with water/coolant. Mine came with no oil, so I'm using some 10-30 full synthitic motor oil, for the break in period, then I'll drain and fill with some Royal Purple compressor oil. However, there is no drain plug that I can find. Guess I'll have to siphon the old oil out the fill hole? I've been using a Yong Heng compressor, and have no complaints about it, other than very high rpm, and noise. This Carette is quiet, compared to Yong Heng, runs slower, and stays cooler. Only had for one day, so more to come, "IF" I have any problems ;)
The oil level indicator window is your drain plug.
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The Carette is a good looking compressor with lots of features for sure. I went with the AV compressor because it has a large, built-in 5-quart cooling reservoir that is simple to fill and drain. It looks like the Carette cooling system holds much less coolant than the AV and is much harder to fill. I believe the noise level of the two are about the same.
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I have the AV. Using it about 5 months now. It has a yr warranty...Working good and filling well but the air drain is now spitting black when I crack it during a fill. The guys at AV said to change the oil and don't worry about it. It seemed some better, but still doing it some. I use reg compressor oil from Home Depot. They said that was fine but what do you all use /suggest? I want to try different oil. The book says 5 W 40 syn. Not easy to find locally.. Thanks Brian
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This is the Carette thread so briefly, I use Ingersoll Rand all season full synthetic compressor oil. I changed mine after the first 3 hours of runtime when the oil started visibly getting darker in color so I haven't seen any black in the release liquid, just white. I figure it was good to change earlier than recommended being that it's new and possibly having some metal shavings in it. I am not going to let my oil turn black before changing it.
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Keith, any synthetic compressor oil is okay? Is there like a HPA compressor oil? I also have the Carette and have like 8 hrs run time. I have to replace the burst disc at 8hrs. It was hissing. Now it's okay. I got a 5k plug from amazon. I wonder what is the difference of the $40 per quart oil than the $20 .
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My AV manual states to use 5W40 motor oil or standard compressor oil. I go for the Ingersoll Rand full synthetic all season compressor oil just cause it sounds like the best to use to me. I have another shop compressor that says to use that same IR oil too. I am probably spending more money than needed on the full synthetic all season oil, but hopefully it will make it last longer. I really don't know anything about the Carette oil requirements, but would assume its about the same. I would check with Joe B. to make sure.
I have read that the difference in compressor oil verses motor oil is the detergent additives. The compressor oil does not have these detergent additives which is supposed to be better for compressors and have less harmful effects on them. I can say the oil I use is transparent/crystal clear with no opaque at all.
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The fresh compressor oil I put in turned very dark after only 20 minute run. I have changed the oil 3 times with less than 2 hrs total run time. I get black residue even on fresh oil when I crack the air drain. But I have not tried IR. The oil I have been using is Campell/Hosfield. It says formulated for max compressor life, but no where does it say synthetic. Maybe that is the difference.?? Now using 5W 40 full synthetic Shell Rotella seems to have helped a bit. Jordan at AV told me again it was just fine. I find all this very interesting and informative. Thanks..Brian
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Looking at what the compressors cost, I can't think of a one reason to go cheap on oil. You are spending hundreds and thousands on toys but can't seem to find 20-40$ on good quality oli designed specially for HPA compressors!
Regular comprsor oils are not ment to be used on HPA compressors, if you don't believe me look at the manufactures recommendations for HPA oils!
If one day one of you blows up by using motor oil or what not hydraulic oil. I can say I told you, but be very sad on the impact it will cost on our hobby and on all HPA equipment inspection and what not.
Marko
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Hi Marko
Thanks. I went with what the manufacturer and dealer told me to use over the phone as to protect my warranty. Brian
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Bauer compressor oil (Synthetic) - Chemlube 800. It's pricey and sold by the gallon but I think nobody would question your oil on a warranty issue.
Whatever your pick, I think I would stick to ester based synthetics with an ISO grade of around 150 regardless because of the high temps involved.
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Looking at what the compressors cost, I can't think of a one reason to go cheap on oil. You are spending hundreds and thousands on toys but can't seem to find 20-40$ on good quality oli designed specially for HPA compressors!
Regular comprsor oils are not ment to be used on HPA compressors, if you don't believe me look at the manufactures recommendations for HPA oils!
If one day one of you blows up by using motor oil or what not hydraulic oil. I can say I told you, but be very sad on the impact it will cost on our hobby and on all HPA equipment inspection and what not.
Marko
Thanks for snapping me back to my senses. I forgot how expensive this Carette compressor to be skimping on oil. I will follow manufacturers recommendation or the better quality .
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The Carette is a good looking compressor with lots of features for sure. I went with the AV compressor because it has a large, built-in 5-quart cooling reservoir that is simple to fill and drain. It looks like the Carette cooling system holds much less coolant than the AV and is much harder to fill. I believe the noise level of the two are about the same.
I own a Carette and a local buddy owns an AV. These two compressors do not have the same loudness level. The AV runs in excess of 90 decibels whereas the Carette runs at 70 decibels. The AV is 3 times louder. In physics every 6 decibels doubles the sound level. It is no problem to stand next to a Carette and hold a normal conversation. An AV is much much louder. Also, it is a simple modification to add a small overflow tank to a Carette to fix it's only design shortcoming which is the process to remove all air from the coolant lines. It is easy to install an overflow tank between the output line of the low pressure cylinder to the radiator tank. Gravity will remove all air from the lines in seconds and make future coolant changes an easy job. I added an overflow tank to mine at a total cost of $8 in parts from Home Depot. The Carette will then have no air in the system just like the AV with it's overflow tank. The Carette doesn't require a large overflow tank because its water is cooled by an internal fan and radiator tank which the AV doesn't have. The AV is not a bad compressor, but the Carette is far superior in useable features and longevity. It does not fill as fast, but it is designed to last rather than stressing the motor and pistons to achieve the fastest fill time.
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You might want to take another look at the AV. It does have a cooling fan and radiator although small. It also has a very large fan for the motor which also blows over a large coil of tubing to cool down the air passing through it. I am just glad I don't have to rig up a bucket of water to keep the AV cool like some do.
It is good if the Carette has some strong points over the AV. It should because it does cost more than the AV. I do like the auto purge timer that is included with the Carette, but it is not a deal breaker for me.
Maybe there will be one coming out that is better than both of these with a lower price tag. The main thing is to get one and start enjoying your air freedom on your own schedule.
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Great another one to ponder.... :'(
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I have my AV in my heated air conditioned work shop. I could care less about the noise. That is just me. Then I like the quicker fill for sure and the free shipping as opposed to the "about" $150 from ATFS Carrette. And no bucket of extra water. My AV runs very well in the correct temp range..Brian
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Great another one to ponder.... :'(
One thing to consider in your search is how long does it take to fill your tank/gun. In my view, the quicker they fill, the less they have to run, and the longer they will last before needing a rebuild. And once a rebuild is required, where are you getting the parts from.
The Carret looks like a really nice unit, but is slower to fill than the AV and may or may not be built better. Hopefully Joe B. can hook you up with some parts and instructions.
I can say that the AV is fast and run times are low ~ 20 minutes from 2900 to 4500 on a 88cf tank. Also the tank is not hot when finished filling so you loose very little pressure from tank cool down afterwards.
The AV comes with an extra HPA filter, dead head, male-to-male Foster, and a whole bag of rebuild parts and a spanner wrench. I see many, many other parts like power switch, gauges and circuit board available on the PA site you can order. help or questions about the unit are just a phone call away too.
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60 hour oil change on test unit. No drama. Holding my cheap sound meter at eye level standing next to compressor running 80dba, placing the meter down between both cylinders 94dba. Pretty darn quiet. When it blows off it's 104dba.
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One more new Carette owner here. Ordered a Carette with everything, Alpha filter, auto drain, etc....Came boxed and run-in as advertised - easy to set up and fill with oil, and 1/2 hour later was filling my Guppy. Quiet and performs as advertised. Here in the Northeast, there is not a scuba shop on every corner, even if there were, I am too lazy to go! Appears to be a well designed product at an appropriate price point. Thanks Joe! (BTW, I used the operating procedure outlined earlier on this thread - Thanks guykuo!)
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One more new Carette owner here. Ordered a Carette with everything, Alpha filter, auto drain, etc....Came boxed and run-in as advertised - easy to set up and fill with oil, and 1/2 hour later was filling my Guppy. Quiet and performs as advertised. Here in the Northeast, there is not a scuba shop on every corner, even if there were, I am too lazy to go! Appears to be a well designed product at an appropriate price point. Thanks Joe! (BTW, I used the operating procedure outlined earlier on this thread - Thanks guykuo!)
Don't hesitate to change the oil at the 1st 5 hr interval because the oil window will stay a fresh gold color but when you drain it ,it's actually showing a metallic sheen.
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Scuse me for not having read through this whole thread. But my Carette has gotten very slow in filling. Does not have too many hours use. Checked for leaks, found none. Some blow by out of crankcase breather. :-\
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The Carette still works great, and unfortunately I have to use it more often because I bought a Guppy - I only get 1 1/2 fills with it for my Crown....didn't realize how small it is....Time to get a Great White!
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Found a very small leak at a foster fitting, that was causing my slower fill times. Still, takes awhile to reach 4500 psi. I also have 2 Hung yeng or whatever they are called. They do fill faster, but the water bucket, ice, I dunno. Some other compressors look nice, but I don't like the idea of no oil, and just grease that you turn a squeeze into every so often. Doesn't seem like it would last as long as an oil lubricated compressor. :-\
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Found a very small leak at a foster fitting, that was causing my slower fill times. Still, takes awhile to reach 4500 psi. I also have 2 Hung yeng or whatever they are called. They do fill faster, but the water bucket, ice, I dunno. Some other compressors look nice, but I don't like the idea of no oil, and just grease that you turn a squeeze into every so often. Doesn't seem like it would last as long as an oil lubricated compressor. :-\
What brands are like that? I'd just as soon avoid them too.
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The Omega compressors use the grease fittings for lube. Don't know if it will last but Air guns of Arizona sells them and claims good results. Wayne
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The Omega compressors as I understand it, uses the grease for lube instead of having oil mixing in with the compressed air. I think you just have to turn a knob before filling on occasion to feed in more grease. Doesn't sound like a bad idea, but IDK. I have heard they are slower to fill than a Carette or AV. I have and like the AV, but the air does smell of compressor oil. It has become less smelly with use.
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Omega Super Charger/Turbocharger compressors.
Knife
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Food grade white grease used in the Omega Super Charger to lube the piston. No smelly smelly. I love my Omega. It has about 85 hours on it now. Was rebuilt at about 25 hours but did not need a complete rebuild. There was a defective part (check valve ball) that was made from too soft of a material that caused it to be blown out into the bottom of the case when the HPA built up enough. After replacing the check balls with new and improved ones, I have put an additional 60 hours of trouble free operation on it. It's a great compressor. Settable pressure gauges (dual limit needles) to shut off at a specific pressure, auto moisture purge and self contained are the big pluses for this unit. The minuses are the price and the weight. Portable? Well, yeah. But heavy as heck to move around. LOL
But there are HPA compressors much higher in price and a lot less portable than this unit. This one works for me!!!
:)
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At 108 hours with my ALPHA 90 ( Basic unit of the Omega Super charger ) .... rebuilt/resealed the 3 pump stages at 88 hours.
It is getting a Rod Knock now that is having it sound like a ShoeBox knock knock knock .... bummer & no idea now long it will continue to work or worse.
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Is there a bearing or a bushing on the rod?
If a bushing then just swap it out or if there is no bush, take it to a machinist who can fit one.
Better to fix it while it still works.
Marko
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Is there a bearing or a bushing on the rod?
If a bushing then just swap it out or if there is no bush, take it to a machinist who can fit one.
Better to fix it while it still works.
Marko
Captive needle bearing in a VERY light press fit to connecting rod. garbage soft rod at that !!
It was starting to knock before the 88hr service ... pressed out the bearing ( Actually nearly finger pushed out ) and then set it back in with loc-tite 680 sleeve retaining compound.
lasted @ 10 hrs and started knocking again.
Sadly it looks like RAPTOR INTERNATIONAL who was importing them is no longer around with only finding AOA as the only dealer via web searches. That really s ucks !
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New bearing and mic the shaft if its worn. But most likely just new bearing could cure it. Locktite hard bearing retainer glue and it wont come off without heating.
Marko
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With Dave Ez's kind permission, I am partially re-posting my review of the Carette 4500 compressor here at GTA. This is an option I wish existed just over a year ago when I began my quest for a compressor.
The Carette 4500 compressor is a Chinese compressor that seeks to fill the price performance gap between "big boy" dive compressors and Shoebox compressors. They unfortunately arrived amidst a wave of "junk" compressors. To my great surprise, their Carrette 4500 is very different.
Mr. Wang kindly supplied the demonstrator unit. I have not kept that compressor post testing. I gave it away. I already have a Bauer Jr and do not need another compressor. I found a fellow air gunner who is also a victim of another manufacturer’s poor built compressor. It was a nice surprise for him. I’m sure he will give it a good home.
As a demonstrator unit rather than a final production unit, the test unit may not exactly match the appearance and configuration of the actual shipped units. I have been told that the external finish will be better on the actual units. Also, the crankshaft bearing and rods will be more durable than those on the demonstrator.
The manufacturer is now running a introductory promotion for what I call the "full configuration." That is with a PMV (pressure maintaining valve) and auto bleed. I wanted the PMV to maximize water removal and the auto bleed to make usage convenient. They listened.
Guykuo,
I purchased the 110V version a few months back. All was well untill recently motor is tripping the overload. The motor is getting HOT(140F.) I removed the belt guard. Motor and compressor pulley seem to turn with ease.
Voltage at outlet: 122VAC
Popped open the peckerhead (motor control box) to find labels reading 50Hz. Can you confirm that this motors windings are wound for 50Hz and not 60hz?
If its a 50Hz motor i am running it 20% faster on 60Hz. That would explain temperature rise in this motor (which i am assuming is Class B insulation.)
This would also explain my hotter temperature readings on the first stage cylinder. (155F)
On top of all of this the belt is wearing bad on the drive side pulley(motor).
Funny thing is that when i run the compressor off of a 100' 16AWG extention cord, the motor still gets pretty hot but does not trip. Voltage drop through said cord under load brings it down to 113VAC. Motor pulls a solid 14A under these circumstances but does not trip overload.
Anyone feel free to chime in on any tips/ect. to help me out here.
Thanks in advance -Seth
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If you purchased your Carette a few months ago it would still be under the manufacturer's warranty. First recommendation is to call the distributor, AirtanksforSale, and see what they can do for you. If your motor pulley or compressor crankshaft pulley has loosened and gotten slightly misaligned it would cause motor overheating and premature belt wear. The belt should last hundreds of hours with no wear. Did you check to see if either pulley lockdown set screw has loosened and caused the belt create stress on the motor?
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Thanks for the input. I will double check. I know the tightness and alignnment are no issue. I will check pulley to shaft play and report back. I contacted Joe B. His only recommendation was to remove 2nd stage cylinder temperature sensor. Im 99% sure that that sensor is not tied in with the motor overload so it is irrelevant. He did however ensure me that we are going to get it fixed as it is indeed still under warranty. I will return with a report on pulley on shaft play.
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Okay,
Just ckecked. Neither pulley is loose on the shaft. Not sure where to go from here. I guess ill be calling Joe back sometime next week. Any recommendations/tips are still welcome. I am working through the weekend so wont have much time to check anything in depth until next week.
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Okay,
Just ckecked. Neither pulley is loose on the shaft. Not sure where to go from here. I guess ill be calling Joe back sometime next week. Any recommendations/tips are still welcome. I am working through the weekend so wont have much time to check anything in depth until next week.
OK, your electrical knowledge exceeds most guys. I'd try two things. Are all of your outlets showing that high a voltage? I'd check my outlets and see if all of them are at 122. I'd replace the belt with a new one and make sure everything aligns with normal tension as well to see if the original belt was the problem instead of the result.
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I'll guess maybe you got the wrong motor on that unit ???? :-\
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I fully intend on getting a new belt. (Cogged) asap. Going to look monday but if i cant find one locally ill have to order one. I send Joe a message. I will be calling him as well on monday as it will be my first day off after this weekend.As for the voltage. All outlets are reading 122v +/- .3V at the time of measurement. That is on separate corcuits around the house.That ofcourse will vary a bit throughout the day but not to the extent of effecting the motor.
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I described your situation to a friend who is much more knowledgeable than I am about electrical circuits. His first thought is for you to check to see if your motor is wired properly. There is usually a plate on the motor or in the electrical box that shows the correct wiring configuration for each voltage. He had a motor overheating that was supposed to be a 110 but was wired as a 220 with a 110 plug. Once he rewired it for 110, the overheating issue stopped. Is your motor wired correctly for 110 volts?
Also from what you describe about your belt problem, he also said that if it wasn't misaligned and you say it turns freely, could it have been too loose?
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I described your situation to a friend who is much more knowledgeable than I am about electrical circuits. His first thought is for you to check to see if your motor is wired properly. There is usually a plate on the motor or in the electrical box that shows the correct wiring configuration for each voltage. He had a motor overheating that was supposed to be a 110 but was wired as a 220 with a 110 plug. Once he rewired it for 110, the overheating issue stopped. Is your motor wired correctly for 110 volts?
Also from what you describe about your belt problem, he also said that if it wasn't misaligned and you say it turns freely, could it have been too loose?
Thank you for your input. Im doubting it is wired for 220. I will most likely be looking again as soon as i get a chance but if i remember correctly there is only a neutral and hot wire ran from box to motor.(white and black)
As for the belt the tension seemed plenty fine and alignment seemed good as well.
Latest update is that Joe B. Sprung into action today creating a group message with the manufacturer included. Still waiting on a response from them but they are in china so hopefully i wake up to some sort of helpful information. Good news is that Joe B is involved and is taking action. Im still open for suggestions ect. Thanks again.
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Mine died on the 9th hr. The motor siezed. I got a replacement with 4 hrs on it. But I havent used it that much since I got the F10 Shoebox and my shooting time diminished because I added another hobby,,, 3D printing!
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Mine died on the 9th hr. The motor siezed. I got a replacement with 4 hrs on it. But I havent used it that much since I got the F10 Shoebox and my shooting time diminished because I added another hobby,,, 3D printing!
Great to hear of your new hobby. Not so much about the motor failure. Would you mind elaborating (events that let up to the problem, when you realized you definitely had a problem, and how the replacement under warranty went?) Also how is the new one running? Any better?
Im around my 6th hour plus Joe's break in hours. Any information will help me! Thanks.
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It was chugging along fine until that last time it sounded it was struggling. "Knocking sound. I'm not sure if I remembered if I had stop the filling or I finished the 4500 psi tank. Then on the next fill, it won't turn even with a wrench. I got the replacement right away but I lost my confidence over longevity and so I ordered the Shoebox F10 as primary compressor or as the back up .
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Man thats unfortunate but sounds like good customer service. Sounds like a bad bearing was the cause. Not sure if you were able to determine if it was the motor side or the compressor side that was locked up bit either way something had it in a bad bind for sure if a wrench wouldnt even do the trick. I really need this one to work for me. Ive went through TWO bad air venturis before this that were having the same issie as Brian Smith stated. (Black oil from water oil seperator and some skipping/shacking/stuttering going on.) I received great customer service from PA and ended up getting a full refund. Other than Brian i heard nothing but great things about the AV. Other that you, i have heard nothing but great things about the Carette. I just cant catch a break here.
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This is a great thread and has me thinking the Carette might be the way to go. It has been a while, just wondering how these are running for the people that have them?
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Me too! Saving for something. LOL
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If my F10 breaks down with major repair needed (doubtful the way they're designed) I'd try finding something better that needs rebuilding like a 4 stage ???
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I bought mine directly from China. They called it a "Karette" so is it a knock off? Who knows. Looks identical to the ones Joe sells. And those come from China too. Mine was fine at first, now after a year or more, and not really that many hours, (no hour meter) it struggles to reach 4000psi, and no way will go to 4500. Stays cool while running. Was thinking about pulling the high pressure side to have a look see, but after going through this post, I see there are no rings on the high pressure piston. So I guess if/when it wears, you'd have to replace the piston and cylinder? Guess I'll have to drag out my Yung Heng, and use it, till I find a solution. It was nice to not have to use a 5 gallon bucket of water, ice, etc. etc. I'm really wanting a REAL scuba compressor, but the money...... :-X
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Check the valves before and after the last stage. Most likely a valve problem.
Or it doesn't need a big leak between the stages, some soapy water will reveal that easily.
Marko
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I bought mine directly from China. They called it a "Karette" so is it a knock off? Who knows. Looks identical to the ones Joe sells. And those come from China too. Mine was fine at first, now after a year or more, and not really that many hours, (no hour meter) it struggles to reach 4000psi, and no way will go to 4500. Stays cool while running. Was thinking about pulling the high pressure side to have a look see, but after going through this post, I see there are no rings on the high pressure piston. So I guess if/when it wears, you'd have to replace the piston and cylinder? Guess I'll have to drag out my Yung Heng, and use it, till I find a solution. It was nice to not have to use a 5 gallon bucket of water, ice, etc. etc. I'm really wanting a REAL scuba compressor, but the money...... :-X
Steve when the guy that owned the dive shop I use to go to gets back from Florida I'm going to ask him to keep an eye out for one. If I could finding one for a grand or less that needs a rebuild I'd go for it. I think that most of the guys that fill their own dive tanks have the Bauers or better.
here's what Terry has ;D He found it by word of mouth at a closed down fire station, he got a deal on it for 3K. I think the compressor cost over 20K new.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1812/42068966215_65228083a1_c.jpg)
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Steve when the guy that owned the dive shop I use to go to gets back from Florida I'm going to ask him to keep an eye out for one. If I could finding one for a grand or less that needs a rebuild I'd go for it. I think that most of the guys that fill their own dive tanks have the Bauers or better.
here's what Terry has ;D He found it by word of mouth at a closed down fire station, he got a deal on it for 3K. I think the compressor cost over 20K new.
Wayne, the best Bauer man I know of is Carlos Kuster in Ft. Lauderdale. He rebuilds lightly used Bauers and sells them on Craigslist and Ebay. His Ebay identity is Too_Deep. He buys used Bauers from mechant ships used to fill onboard firefighting air tanks. He refurbishes them and replaces any parts needed. He removes the 50HZ motors and puts U.S. spec 60HZ 230V motors on them. I bought a Bauer Utilus from him that I used for 3 years that ran flawlessly. My advice is to get a Jr. II, Posiedon, Utilus, or Capitano that he has refurbished to as new operating condition. For a single user the huge Bauer pictured from the fire department is overkill. The ones I'm referring to won't take up as much room, require expensive large air filter replacements, etc. That fire department unit is likely to have a 10 HP 3 phase 460 Volt motor. The one pictured is like owning a 747 to take kids to school each morning. Fanstastic compressor but too large for a non commercial application.
Carlos Kuster can be reached at 954-607-0073. Great guy to work with, he prices his compressors right, and ships at actual cost.
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Cootertwo, check out this video from Carette. A friend of mine had the same issue and removing and cleaning the high pressure cylinder internals cured it. Make sure you're using high quality synthetic compressor oil and changing it annually. The yellow liquid brushed on the piston in the video is compressor oil. Cleaning the reed valves will most likely cure the high pressure buildup problem you're having. If it doesn't, you have a hose or fitting leak somewhere in your system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pxOBwMISg&t=51s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pxOBwMISg&t=51s)
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Thanks for the video. It will be very handy in the future when my carette show signs of trouble.
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I've been looking at the Carette as one of three possible ways to go. However, the one thing I need to know is the fill times.
Looking on JB.s site, he list two different times for the same size bottles. The times are wildly different. Same start pressure, same finish, same bottles, yet one fill time is double the other. GRRRRR!!! >:(
PS, just found a fill time here that was from JB, nad it was yet again, different than the other two. Much faster.
Odd such a long thread, but no user statements on fill times that I caught, other than a little Guppy. Weird!
Can this compressor stand up to a daily fill of an ** cf tank? According to Motor head, no!
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I've been looking at the Carette as one of three possible ways to go. However, the one thing I need to know is the fill times.
Looking on JB.s site, he list two different times for the same size bottles. The times are wildly different. Same start pressure, same finish, same bottles, yet one fill time is double the other. GRRRRR!!! >:(
PS, just found a fill time here that was from JB, nad it was yet again, different than the other two. Much faster.
Odd such a long thread, but no user statements on fill times that I caught, other than a little Guppy. Weird!
Can this compressor stand up to a daily fill of an ** cf tank? According to Motor head, no!
Knife,
I can answer both questions you asked. First, if you convert 25 liters per minute to cubic feet per minute the fill time using a Carette is .9 CF/minute. So that means it will fill a 75 cubic ft. tank from zero in 83 minutes, or a 98 cubic ft. tank in 1 hour and 40 minutes from empty. In my experience it took 20 minutes to top off my 3 liter tank and one hour to top off a 9 liter tank. These times are reasonable but half the rate of the Air Venturi and Hatsan Lightning compressors. However, the Carette uses a belt driven motor that purrs along quietly at 1200 rpms instead of the much noisier direct drive 3200 rpm direct drive motors on the AV and Hatsan. Less heat, less noise, less wear and tear, and IMO a much longer useable life span. Look at the Carette teardown video I posted in this thread a few posts above this one. It is easy to service the high pressure check valves and even replace the piston and piston sleeve without knowing how to perform brain surgery. The Carette will probably never wear out its high pressure piston or it's sleeve.
Can a Carette top off a tank if used daily? Yes, no sweat. It never runs hot. I only sold mine because a friend wanted it so I helped him out. I am a PCP compressor junkie who has bought and sold six different compressors over the past 15 years. I trade compressors like some guys trade air guns. I really enjoyed the Carette and especially some of its convenience features like the hour meter, automatic moisture drain, and factory PMV. I replaced the included factory high pressure filter housing for a gold Tuxing filter housing and its repackable desiccant cartridge. In the $1600 price price range of a new Carette, I endorse it highly. It is extremely well made and support from the manufacturer is superior to most of the competition with the possible exception of Pyramyd Air for the Air Venturi. For value, features, and performance the Carette smokes the Hatsan Lightning, Air Venturi, and especially the Omega compressors.
Currently I am using a Daystate LC110 compressor. It fills at 1.1 CF per minute which is only slightly faster than a Carette at .9 CF. It runs on 110 volts and is very quiet. It is air cooled, has 3 separate stages with steel piston rings, and has a long life dive compressor head design that Coltri has sold for over a quarter of a century. The LC110 requires an aftermarket filter so I added a gold Tuxing identical to the one I added to the Carette. The LC110 doesn't have an hour meter or auto moisture drain, but I can manage without them. I'll use the Daystate until another compressor interests me enough to sell it. Hopefully not!
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Finally info I can use! and it is appreciated. I believe that I decided to spend 1600 bucks though, I think I would pony up and go with the Daystate/coltri.
I knew that they planned to up the cylinders from two to three on the lower cost Daystate model. Now it is even more tempting. ;)
I am currently using an Altaros and it does a fine job. Been using it for over 3 years now. but my large shop compressor that feeds it is getting tired. Looked at a larger "Quiet compressor to feed it, but can't quite figure out what the out put needs to be, and if any of the under 400 usd units can do the job. GRRRRR!!! It would be nice if their charts on their site related to their largest customer base. In the USA, as it is hard to figure out where it needs to be by their numbers.
Thanks again for taking the time to post this!
Knife
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Ok just finished up 120hr maintance on the test unit. Still running just fine.
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Nice!
Ok...it's about time for me to chime in on the Carette .....
I've had mine for a while ...very early adaptor, straight from the manufacturer, with all the bells and whistles...I fill big tanks (I have a ton of Big bore)...So, as I sit at 91 hours....I did a complete teardown back at 80 hours....why?...I had developed a squeak ( under load).....torn down high side....fairly clean, typical gunk build up cleaned up, reassembled....tore down low side...WHOA!...reed valve rusted, screws, rusted ......cleaned up (shiny)...reassembled....belt....bad shape (and source of my squeak)...replaced changed oil....changed anti/water mix.....changed outboard filter desiccant......wiped downed , cleaned up.....humming again (quietly), and filling perfectly...would STILL highly recommend! The daystate LC110 was not available when I was shopping....and I STILL don't know if I would have given up the hours meter and more importantly...the AUTO PURGE...that feature is invaluable to me!
DJ
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Thanks for the update! I know Motor head had issues with his Carrett.
I broke down and ordered an F-10. cheaped out I guess. I ran an original, #34 for years. The new model is miles ahead of the older one.
We'll see! ;)
Knife
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Am glad that by reading the outstanding review/tear down, etc., of the Carette compressor on here has veered me in the right direction--for me--in making a decision of whose compressor to buy.
Am pretty much sold out on the Carette so will take a drive to Joe Broncato's place in the near future and purchase one to replace the AV Nomad, which lately has become too noisy and shaky for comfort.
So before it quits working and leaves me sans means to air fill rifles, etc., figured better get ahead of the game...
-fjm
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They are great compressors. There are a few design deficiencies, but overall it is very good. I do suggest a modification that will shut it down if the internal 12v supply dies, as it will overheat otherwise. The onboard temperature sensor will not stop it if the 12v dies and the pump stops. That was the design of mine, that I got in early 2018, unless they have since tweaked it.
Mine also came with a solid belt, that wore out rather quickly. Joe replaced it with a notched one, that will surely last much longer, as it doesn't get nearly as hot. The heat is from the fact that the motor side pulley is so small, and the belt must bend around it, compressing the inner side. That causes heat to build up and the belt to break down much faster. If the newest ones they are selling come with the notched belt, then great. If not, you can expect to need to change it sooner, rather than later.
I also added a one way check valve after the PMV on mine, to protect the PMV, and allow me to just load up a bottle for top up without waiting for the compressor side to build up to almost equal pressure first. If you don't do one of those two, then you will damage the PMV.
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...
I also added a one way check valve after the PMV on mine, to protect the PMV, and allow me to just load up a bottle for top up without waiting for the compressor side to build up to almost equal pressure first. If you don't do one of those two, then you will damage the PMV.
Is this a known risk for all PMV's, or are just certain ones susceptible? Their design appears to inherently act as a check valve.
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...
I also added a one way check valve after the PMV on mine, to protect the PMV, and allow me to just load up a bottle for top up without waiting for the compressor side to build up to almost equal pressure first. If you don't do one of those two, then you will damage the PMV.
Is this a known risk for all PMV's, or are just certain ones susceptible? Their design appears to inherently act as a check valve.
I do not know if it's all or only this particular design. Joe himself confirmed to me that it will damage the PMV on their units if you open a valve on a tank with too much pressure without waiting for the supply side to open up the PMV. It will damage one of the orings inside.
As I wrote, I don't want to hang around the compressor waiting, so I added an actual check valve, so that I can just start the compressor, open the tank valve, and walk away for a while.
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Wow! What a great thread, and a great community! OK, I've taken the high side head off mine. Cleaned the ball bearing check valve. Still won't go past 3000psi. However, it will hold the 3000psi over night, so I'm assuming that means I have no leaks, right? If there was a problem with the low side cylinder, would that prevent getting past 3000psi ??? I sent Joe an email asking how much for a complete high side cylinder and piston, but have not got a reply. I hate phones, but guess I'll have to give him a call. I'm really suspecting my high side piston and cylinder have worn out. No hour meter, but don't really use it all that much, as I have 2 large tanks, and one smaller. In the past use, have set the cutoff at 3500psi, but now own a Huben, and would like to top my tanks to 4000psi As it is right now, with a plug in the end of the hose, it will take around 10 to 15 minutes, just to get to 3000psi, then it just sits there and runs. As a finaly try the other day, I put a little shelac gasket sealer on the red fiber head gasket of the high side piston, thinking it may be leaking. No difference. Tried searching for parts on-line, can't come up with anything. Found Ali express lists a high side cylinder assembly for a Yong Heng, but I doubt if it's exactly the same. I sure don't want to spend another grand or more on something similar, after my experience with this Carette
Been eyeballing this one. Claimes 4 cylinder, $2100.00
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HMVG7FV/ref=emc_b_5_i (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HMVG7FV/ref=emc_b_5_i)
From the other thread:
A photo of the failed fiber washer and oring in the compressor high side. I am waiting now for new ones to arrive.
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If it will get to 3000, but no higher, and takes that long to get there, then first triple check that there are no slow leaks at any hoses or fittings. Also, how old is your oil? If it has broken down, the compressor will misbehave in this way also. I have seen such a case almost solved with an oil change, as strange as that may sound.
If the above doesn't help, then a rebuild with new orings and new fiber washer would be next. If that does not solve it, then a new high side piston is needed. The tolerances are quite tight on it, so it can be damaged.
One other tidbit if information about how I use my compressor, is that I also added a large fan that blows across the cylinders from the side, much like even higher end compressors have. This actually does help keep the stages cooler beyond what the water cooling does. Cooler parts last longer, and the entire compressor runs more efficiently. If you have a moderately out of specification high side piston, then this trick might be enough to get a bit more psi out of it.
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Question, I have not been into the low side yet. If there was a problem with the low side, would it stop the compressor from going over 3000psi? I don't think so, but thought I'd ask. Mine will hold 3000psi overnight, with a plug in the end of the fill hose, so I assume I have no leaks. And if anyone has any links to where to get a high side piston and cylinder, it would be great. I emailed Joe, but have not heard back.
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Question, I have not been into the low side yet. If there was a problem with the low side, would it stop the compressor from going over 3000psi? I don't think so, but thought I'd ask. Mine will hold 3000psi overnight, with a plug in the end of the fill hose, so I assume I have no leaks. And if anyone has any links to where to get a high side piston and cylinder, it would be great. I emailed Joe, but have not heard back.
I doubt it, but you can always tear it down for an inspection. It isn't really any more complex than the high side.
I bought mine via Joe, so he is the only stateside contact that I am aware of. Try to call him. He sometimes gets busy, so phone him up if email is not getting a response. I have no idea if he stocks rebuild kits now that you could buy. When mine had a problem, the parts came directly from overseas.
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Wow! What a great thread, and a great community! OK, I've taken the high side head off mine. Cleaned the ball bearing check valve. Still won't go past 3000psi. However, it will hold the 3000psi over night, so I'm assuming that means I have no leaks, right? If there was a problem with the low side cylinder, would that prevent getting past 3000psi ??? I sent Joe an email asking how much for a complete high side cylinder and piston, but have not got a reply. I hate phones, but guess I'll have to give him a call. I'm really suspecting my high side piston and cylinder have worn out. No hour meter, but don't really use it all that much, as I have 2 large tanks, and one smaller. In the past use, have set the cutoff at 3500psi, but now own a Huben, and would like to top my tanks to 4000psi As it is right now, with a plug in the end of the hose, it will take around 10 to 15 minutes, just to get to 3000psi, then it just sits there and runs. As a finaly try the other day, I put a little shelac gasket sealer on the red fiber head gasket of the high side piston, thinking it may be leaking. No difference. Tried searching for parts on-line, can't come up with anything. Found Ali express lists a high side cylinder assembly for a Yong Heng, but I doubt if it's exactly the same. I sure don't want to spend another grand or more on something similar, after my experience with this Carette
Been eyeballing this one. Claimes 4 cylinder, $2100.00
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HMVG7FV/ref=emc_b_5_i (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HMVG7FV/ref=emc_b_5_i)
From the other thread:
A photo of the failed fiber washer and oring in the compressor high side. I am waiting now for new ones to arrive.
Chinese coltri mch6 clone, I would at that money consider finding a used bauer jr.
Or new Komtec compressor, its German made.
Marko
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Last Saturday drove to Joe Brancato's business location to pick up an Alpha-Carette 4500 compressor, Alpha air filter, a carbon-fiber scuba tank and couple of other peripherals.
The air filter was equipped with a bleed-valve so air rifles can be directly filled; just need couple of metal hose clamps to mount it on the compressor.
Am still unsure what is needed to fill rifles from the scuba tank; what exact type of "whip" is required. Any and all suggestions are welcome!
Other than filling it with oil and topping off coolant the compressor will be ready to do its thing; hope everything works without any glitches...
FX Dreamline Classic (walnut stock, .25 caliber)
Fully Hajimoto modded Gaunlet (.22 caliber)
Benjamin Armada (.177 caliber)
ATI Nova Liberty (wood stock, .22 caliber)
Sig Sauer MCX CO2 semiauto rifle (.177 caliber--converted to highb pressure air via Air Venturi regulated tank)
-fjm
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Last Saturday drove to Joe Brancato's business location to pick up an Alpha-Carette 4500 compressor, Alpha air filter, a carbon-fiber scuba tank and couple of other peripherals.
The air filter was equipped with a bleed-valve so air rifles can be directly filled; just need couple of metal hose clamps to mount it on the compressor.
Am still unsure what is needed to fill rifles from the scuba tank; what exact type of "whip" is required. Any and all suggestions are welcome!
Other than filling it with oil and topping off coolant the compressor will be ready to do its thing; hope everything works without any glitches...
FX Dreamline Classic (walnut stock, .25 caliber)
Fully Hajimoto modded Gaunlet (.22 caliber)
Benjamin Armada (.177 caliber)
ATI Nova Liberty (wood stock, .22 caliber)
Sig Sauer MCX CO2 semiauto rifle (.177 caliber--converted to highb pressure air via Air Venturi regulated tank)
-fjm
I'm surprised he didn't sell you the connections for filling the rifles from the tank. He has those connectors. On Amazon, they are called 4500 psi fill whip. Don't go cheap. I had mine burst before. Check the type of quick disconnect that is compatible with your rifle.
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It depends on what valve the tank comes with.
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[/quote]
I'm surprised he didn't sell you the connections for filling the rifles from the tank. He has those connectors. On Amazon, they are called 4500 psi fill whip. Don't go cheap. I had mine burst before. Check the type of quick disconnect that is compatible with your rifle.
[/quote]
Actually did find a whip under some stuff inside the box where spare oil and dessicant capsule plus other things that were placed in so didn't see it before--my bad.
The whip is already equipped with female Foster quick-connectors, as is the scuba tank, so am all set.
JB and his super-great assistant seems to be very thorough anticipating what their customers require for successful usage.
Is fantastic to see such attention been paid to even the smallest details...
-fjm
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It depends on what valve the tank comes with.
Checked the scuba tank's valve assembly while ago and ascertained that it is equipped with a male Foster nipple, so is compatible with everything else...
-fjm
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Someone messaged me to ask the details for the better style notched v-belt for the Carette. The belt that Joe sent me, which has been working great and already outlasted the original solid belt, has the following markings.
GeiLi 17-360 13x864Li 6350
Note that the 13x864Li is the critical piece to search for that will locate many of these belts in the correct size. However, be sure to note the belt itself with those search results as some will be solid, while other have the notches. Given the small motor pulley on the Carette, I highly recommend the notched one. The notched one stays much cooler, as it is able to flex around the small pulley with less internal belt friction, bending, and heat build-up. This prolongs the life of the belt a great deal.
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I was contacted by the Carette manufacturer after they read my posts on Face Book; got a message asking me if everything is working correctly with my A-C compressor to, which indicated everything is been working fine since the stuff was bought.
Appears that the manufacturer is keenly interested in seeing their product works reliably...
-fjm
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I think - I know the corrosion problem has bitten me.my carette after only 15 hours of use has weakened to pump only 200 psi per hour. How can I contact the manufacturer directly to get warranty inrepair/
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I think - I know the corrosion problem has bitten me.my carette after only 15 hours of use has weakened to pump only 200 psi per hour. How can I contact the manufacturer directly to get warranty inrepair/
Whom did you buy it from?
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Any updates on the reliability of the Daystate LC110?
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Well, my Carette, AKA Alpha, AKA Kalitte, or whatever, is out of commission. The high pressure piston has no rings, so after it wears some, it will not get past 3000 psi, and takes hours to get there. High pressure piston shows signs of wear and heat towards the end of the piston. I'm trying to source parts, but no success yet. The DAV I bought off Amazon, is working fine. Air cooled, so no water, pumps, buckets, etc. etc. Fingers crossed it lasts me awhile.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HMVG7FV/ref=emc_b_5_i (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HMVG7FV/ref=emc_b_5_i)
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Reach out to Bosun......he may be able to help....
bosunhu1984@gmail.com
DJ
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Here's a look at the high side piston of the Carette compressor. Note, NO rings. It is a machined fit, and with a little wear, looses it's ability to make high pressure. Note the heat discoloring on the top end of the piston (rod). And yes, my water pump was and has always run, yes I run Royle Purple compressor oil. In the pic, the end of the piston (rod) has a taper that I ground on it. I tried to get a seal for a Yong Heng on there, but no success. I also tried to machining the groves larger, and deeper, to accept the Yong Heng seals, but the piston is as hard as a drill bit. My mini lathe wouldn't even scratch it.
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Did you reach out to the email I provided?
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Yes, I reached out, and got an email asking for pics, to identify the parts I need. Thanks for the tip. Haven't heard back yet. ;)
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Royal Purple is NOT the proper oil for one of these compressors and might explain the premature wear. Get proper Bauer style compressor oil and use it is much more expensive. Also, that piston looks totally different than mine. That is not the version sold by Joe unless they have had major design changes.
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If there are no scratches on the cylinder or piston I don't think they are the problem. And you're probably having a leaking valve between the stages or after the final stage.
Coloring is from the combustion of your royal purple oil.
People don't care if it's safe or the correct oil for the job as long as it's cheap.
Hydraulic oil is not bearing lubricant and engine oil is not compressor oil.
Shop compressor oil is not high pressure compressor oil and so on.
Marko
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I got a reply from Bosun Hu, saying that the compressor I have is not the same as the one Joe sells. So maybe it is totally different. The Royle Purple "compressor" oil I'm running, is supposed to be good. What do others recommend? The high side piston does have scratches, and deterioration marks. The 4 cylinder DAV (also running Royle Purple), is doing fine, I just wanted to get this Carette going. If I can't repair it, I'll just strip it off he frame, and mount a Yong Heng on it, and use the cooling system.
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Scouring and flaking indicates bad hardening of the parts. Chinese knock-off of a Chinese compressor.
Try to get parts from Bosun to replace the bad ones.
Or does yours have warranty still?
Marko
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Bosun is looking. No warranty, and besides, I've had it for a couple of years. It was my first step up, from Yong Heng. It worked well at first, but got slower and slower, then less pressure, and less. I need 4000/4500 to keep my tanks full, (2 large and 1 pony) The DAV 4 cylinder radial I recently bought is working fine, so far. Chineese knock off of a chinnese knock off probably. Guess you get what you pay for. I think I dropped around $1200 for this Carette/Kalette/whatever
Does anyone have a pic of the piston that is used in the ones that Joe sells? I've been told they were different. :o
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Some pictures innthis thread from the teardown?
Marko
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Yup, went back and looked. It is the same piston that is in my unit. Mine has a name on the switch box, "Kaleite" It is identical to every picture diagram I can find, to the Carette. I'm gonna be hard to be convinced that they don't come out the same door, somewhere in China. The pic of my unit is minus the high side cylinder assembly, fan belt and shroud.
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And.... can someone try to explain to me the cycle process of this compressor, that has holes in the top of the second stage piston ?????? Trying to figger it out makes my eyes go crossed!
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Marco, I have tried many times in vain to explain hear on the fourm that shop compressor oil intended for 140 to 175 psi Compressors Is Not High Pressure rated oils.
I have given up. It is easier to let them ruin their comprssors. Sad, but I have been beating my head agains the wall on this, one of two issues people will simply not listen to.
the other is the need to properly size slugs to fit the bore, not just stuff what ever in and expect good results.
I'm afraid it is useless. People will either not listen or tell you that xxx oil is fine!
even Air Venturi at first said differently. I wrote then several times after seeing friends units fail. Now they sell a proper oil. Rare, but at least one party finally listened. LOL ::)
Seems you simply can't talk people into common sense, or not saving a few bucks even if it will save them thousands.
Knife
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Pic of the power box on the test unit.
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Yeah I know, just thought I try one more tine.
Is that test unit still running fine, how many hours do you have on it?
Steve, I would need more pictures to explain the working, looks like the valve for the second stage is in the piston?
Can't say for sure from one picture. How does the air circulation go in the cylinder?
Marko
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133:3 hrs on test unit. Running slow and steady.
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Bosun came through, and found the parts I need that should get this unit back up and running. He said my unit is an original, but older model, no longer made. Parts will be $120. About the oil, I'm not a hard head, but have read elsewhere that Royal Purple was the top shelf oil. I found some Baur oil that with shipping is $45. Is this what I should be running in ALL my compressors? Thanks Bosun and all of you, for your help and suggestions. ;)
https://www.augustindustries.com/product/bauer-synthetic-lubricant-oil-0024/ (https://www.augustindustries.com/product/bauer-synthetic-lubricant-oil-0024/)
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And about the holes in the piston. I don't have a clue how this is supposed to work. Seems as if there would be a whole lot of crankcase pressure ????? When I try to follow the path, I get lost ?!? Strange for sure
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That's the oil I use in mine.
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Ok so that one is also based on a regular shop compressor. V2 with first stage one cylinder using standard piston and cylinder and high pressure stage on top of standard piston used as a carrier.
Marko
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Marko, so in other words, that second stage piston with rings and holes in the top, does nothing but hold the high pressure piston (rod) so to speak....???? It is very strange............ :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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Bosun came through, and found the parts I need that should get this unit back up and running. He said my unit is an original, but older model, no longer made. Parts will be $120. About the oil, I'm not a hard head, but have read elsewhere that Royal Purple was the top shelf oil. I found some Baur oil that with shipping is $45. Is this what I should be running in ALL my compressors? Thanks Bosun and all of you, for your help and suggestions. ;)
https://www.augustindustries.com/product/bauer-synthetic-lubricant-oil-0024/ (https://www.augustindustries.com/product/bauer-synthetic-lubricant-oil-0024/)
Yes, that oil. It has held up much better than even what Joe had shipped me in his own container.
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And what about this oil? I do have a DAVV that I use most. Soooo confusing.?
https://www.augustindustries.com/product/synthetic-lubricant-500/ (https://www.augustindustries.com/product/synthetic-lubricant-500/)
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Yeap, so it seems with all the holes on top of the piston.
That syn500 is ok for hpa use, should work just fine.
I use coltri oil, or bauer depends what I find locally.
Marko
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Bosun came through, and found the parts I need that should get this unit back up and running. He said my unit is an original, but older model, no longer made. Parts will be $120. About the oil, I'm not a hard head, but have read elsewhere that Royal Purple was the top shelf oil. I found some Baur oil that with shipping is $45. Is this what I should be running in ALL my compressors? Thanks Bosun and all of you, for your help and suggestions. ;)
https://www.augustindustries.com/product/bauer-synthetic-lubricant-oil-0024/ (https://www.augustindustries.com/product/bauer-synthetic-lubricant-oil-0024/)
that is wonderful news Cooter! Yes, Royal purple is top shelf and does a fine job for its intended purpose. Lube for shop compressors up to 175 psi and slightly above. It is not designed for high pressure systems. And that is exactly what they told me when I called them. I ran it in my drag car for years. None better!
(that was Auto oil in the Drag car).
Yes, Real high pressure Oil is ridiculously expensive. But saves a lot of money in the meantime. Coltry HPA Oil is a little less expensive.
Mike
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/www.nuvair.com/products/parts-accessories/oil/coltri-750.html
Much better prices! Coltri 700 synthetis 21.oo usd 1/2 liter.
33.67 for 1 Liter.
I think the last time I looked the Air Venturi was around 19 bucks. from Pyramyd Air.
At least we now know why Joe was not any help. Not what he sells, so no way he culd help.
Knife/Mike
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Thanks Knife, I just ordered 2 liters of the CE750 ;)
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You are very welcome Steve! I want to see your compressor live a long and happy life!
Mike/Knife
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Steve when the guy that owned the dive shop I use to go to gets back from Florida I'm going to ask him to keep an eye out for one. If I could finding one for a grand or less that needs a rebuild I'd go for it. I think that most of the guys that fill their own dive tanks have the Bauers or better.
here's what Terry has ;D He found it by word of mouth at a closed down fire station, he got a deal on it for 3K. I think the compressor cost over 20K new.
[/quote
Wayne, the best Bauer man I know of is Carlos Kuster in Ft. Lauderdale. He rebuilds lightly used Bauers and sells them on Craigslist and Ebay. His Ebay identity is Too_Deep. He buys used Bauers from mechant ships used to fill onboard firefighting air tanks. He refurbishes them and replaces any parts needed. He removes the 50HZ motors and puts U.S. spec 60HZ 230V motors on them. I bought a Bauer Utilus from him that I used for 3 years that ran flawlessly. My advice is to get a Jr. II, Posiedon, Utilus, or Capitano that he has refurbished to as new operating condition. For a single user the huge Bauer pictured from the fire department is overkill. The ones I'm referring to won't take up as much room, require expensive large air filter replacements, etc. That fire department unit is likely to have a 10 HP 3 phase 460 Volt motor. The one pictured is like owning a 747 to take kids to school each morning. Fanstastic compressor but too large for a non commercial application.
Carlos Kuster can be reached at 954-607-0073. Great guy to work with, he prices his compressors right, and ships at actual cost.
I know this information is over a year old now, but thanks. I'm going to reach out to him to hopefully find a good used dive compressor.
Nathan
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Soooo, Knife, I got the good oil, and put some in my DAVV. Runs quieter and cooler! Ordered parts for the Kalitte/Carette compressor from Bosun, but there are shipping problems, and I'll probably never see the parts. Only out $120. The stupid Kalitte/Carette is a joke of a design. It is basically a Yong Heng with a radiator. The first stage cylinder pumps air into the high side piston/rod, and from there to what ever you're filling. What looks like a second stage cylinder on the Carette/Kalitte has a piston with holes in the top, so it does absolutely nothing but go up and down in the cylinder. What it does do, is support the high pressure piston/rod, and that's all. So the Carette/Kalitte is still a simple, 2 stage compressor. 8)
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the holes vent the compression to the crankcase, that the piston would be making if it didn't have holes.
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Soooo, Knife, I got the good oil, and put some in my DAVV. Runs quieter and cooler! Ordered parts for the Kalitte/Carette compressor from Bosun, but there are shipping problems, and I'll probably never see the parts. Only out $120. The stupid Kalitte/Carette is a joke of a design. It is basically a Yong Heng with a radiator. The first stage cylinder pumps air into the high side piston/rod, and from there to what ever you're filling. What looks like a second stage cylinder on the Carette/Kalitte has a piston with holes in the top, so it does absolutely nothing but go up and down in the cylinder. What it does do, is support the high pressure piston/rod, and that's all. So the Carette/Kalitte is still a simple, 2 stage compressor. 8)
Wow, that is disappointing to learn Steve. The carette being much like a youn heng. GRRRR!
Steve, the oil really does make a difference. It is really hard to get people to understand this however. Mostly beating my head against the wall trying to get the masses to understand that high pressure is not the same as a typical shop compressor at 120 to 175 psi. Such a HUGE difference!
so glad you are finding success with the proper lube!
What Davv do you have?. I've been interested in them for a while now. I understand that the larger one is basically a coultri design?
MIke
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From all I can tell, it is a Coltrie design for sure. Direct copy, more like it. It's pretty neat. 4 cylinder "radial" air cooled, 2 moisture traps. I believe it's even advertised as breathable air.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HMVG7FV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HMVG7FV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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This thread is mixing data now about different compressors. The Alpha Carette setup sold by Joe at airtanksforsale.com and what this thread was original about is not the same as the one being discussed now, and it is nothing like a Yong Heng. ::) ::) ::)
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The Alpha Carette and the Kalitte are the same, period. Also both are only 2 stage compressors, "like" the Yong Heng. The Carette and Kalitte with their V-twin appearance, seem to be 3 stage, but with the second cylinder having holes in it's piston, it, and it's only purpose, is to support the high pressure piston/rod, that is attached to it, "like" the Yong Heng" I have no idea why they designed it that way, but it is, what it is. BTW, Bosun was/is trying to get me parts for my Kalitte. He said he's getting them from the same source that Joe Brancato gets his compressors from. China, China, China. 8)
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Thanks Steve! I will be watching as I am interested in it. Let us know how she holds up! ;)
Mike
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Nobody ever said it was a 3 cylinder, and of course they are made in China. Is that supposed to be some special knowledge? Everyone knows that.
They are not the same just because you said period. This coming from someone who didn't know the correct oil to use? There are subtle differences in the compressors, and a big difference from a Yong Heng, so not sure what you are trying to prove.
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??? ???
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WoW! Somebody needs some roughage.... I got my parts from Bosum today, via FedEx. A lot more parts than I expected. VERY quick shipping, all things considered. Now in the next few days, I'll take my time, and put her back together. 8)
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I usually speak up when I see misinformation, that's all. I am glad you got your parts. Good luck with your rebuild. Bosun helped me to get parts also when I had to rebuild mine due to a different failure.
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Nice one Steve!
Bosun does care about his customers, and that is Something you can't say about any young hen seller!
Oil and oil again, I got tired of talking to the walls about oil, so I stopped.
Let people see for them self if they won't listen.
No body seems to care that Chinese trying to destroy the hens they are selling so they can sell more. Use hydraulic oil, or this and that but no hpa compressor rated oil.
Hydraulic fluid is meant to be run in a closed system, no air in the system at all! It aerates like crazy when turned in open crank case.
Think about the design criteria of oil you are going to use, if it says hydraulic fluid does the first thing that comes to mind resemble scuba diving or excavator?
Marko
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Now that's just flat funny Marco. But exactly to the point. ;)
Sadly, it is worse than no one listening. They will argue the point, not having a clue what the heck they are talking about til the Cows come Home. GESH!!! A shame I have to say it is such a kind and sweet manner here. it needs a stronger message! Texas Style.
Knife
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Another small suggestion for anyone with an Alpha Carette compressor. Replace the power cord with a 12 gauge or better cable. It ships with a 14 gauge cable, which is ridiculous for a compressor that pulls right at and sometimes a little over 15 amps. Mine was always attached to a supply line that was 12 gauge and under 50 feet to the breaker box. After running it for a few years and for long fills, the cord degraded. The internal control box lead terminals look like attached, and the cord got hot too often. I replaced it with a 10 gauge cord (as I like overkill) and now it doesn't even get warm. And to any who ask, yes the supply voltage was and is plenty, no sag. In theory and on paper, their 14 gauge is enough, and is even rated for 105 degrees Celcius. In practice, it's really marginal though, and what happened to mine over time is not surprising.
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David, thanks for the tip. I got my Kalitte rebuilt, and it's working fine, so far! ;)
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Great to hear Steve! Please keep me in the loop on the davii.
Mike
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One word of a warning, dont trust the Davy seller for anything he might promise. Shanghai Davey machinery or something that its called now. Was just Davey energy back then but still the same company.
Daveychina, davy compressors, daveycompressorchina etc.
I bought some parts from them, first time the price was ok, and I got what I paid for.
Second time I tried to buy the complete rebuild kit for the Coltri style compressor as it was very affordable. Well I ordered the parts. Waited a week and asked for tracing info.
Got a answer a week later stating that I only paid 10% of the sum that the parts are worth. From their web store was price and list what was included and shipping price.
Asked for price for the complete kit and was already opening a case with paypal.
Got a price list for every individual part and the total was way over the price of the complete new compressor.
Send all the emails to paypal and got my money back.
Be very careful and ask for a total before giving any money to Davy.
Marko
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OK Guy's, I must confess. Now talking about my "Kalitte Carette" compressor. I did not buy it from Joe B. It worked fine for a few months, then got slower and slower filling, then got to where it wouldn't go over 3000psi and took forever to get there. Ordered, and received new high pressure piston and sleeve, and gaskets etc. from Bosun Hu (bosunhu1984@gmail.com). Very nice kit. Installed, and saw no difference in performance. The more I tinkered, the worse it got. Had to walk away several times. Finally, it got to where it wouldn't make any air at all! I mean "0" on the gauge, and nothing coming out the whip! I had replaced the ball check valve and spring, at the top of the high pressure cylinder, so I knew it was working, so while it was running, at "0" psi on the gauge, which BTW is located on top of the first stage condensation collection tube. I took a wrench, and started to crack open the stainless steel line coming out of the high pressure cylinder, to see if anything was coming out there. As soon as I cracked the nut, it blew the line out from the ferrule and nut, Knocked a dent in the wall, and wound up bent totally upside down. Noise as loud as a 38 special fired from a revolver! After cleaning my pants, I discovered there is/was a check valve at the bottom of the condensation tube, "where the line goes in from the top of the high pressure cylinder" that is one way "in". I presume to prevent back pressure getting to the compressor if you open a partially filled tank, etc. etc. That little check valve was STUCK CLOSED !!! The poor compressor was trying to work, but couldn't get past that first check valve. All the pressure was being built up in that small stainless line, between the cylinder head, and the bottom of the condensation tube. Took the whole tube off, and cleaned it out. It's just hollow, nothing inside. The check valve had a small green "O" ring that looked out of place. I lubed it, reinstalled, but it still would not open ????? So I took the green "O" ring off, and reassembled, and she's been working like a champ ever since. How in the heck that little check valve was holding all that pressure, I'll never understand. Yes, it was installed in the right direction. Blows my mind. Now I feel sorry for the poor thing, all this time it was trying. Now I'm using it more than my newer DAVV. ;) :D ;D 8)
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That is good news that you got it sorted!
Could it be that the O ring is from somewhere else?
Marko
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OK Guy's, I must confess. Now talking about my "Kalitte Carette" compressor. I did not buy it from Joe B. It worked fine for a few months, then got slower and slower filling, then got to where it wouldn't go over 3000psi and took forever to get there. Ordered, and received new high pressure piston and sleeve, and gaskets etc. from Bosun Hu (bosunhu1984@gmail.com). Very nice kit. Installed, and saw no difference in performance. The more I tinkered, the worse it got. Had to walk away several times. Finally, it got to where it wouldn't make any air at all! I mean "0" on the gauge, and nothing coming out the whip! I had replaced the ball check valve and spring, at the top of the high pressure cylinder, so I knew it was working, so while it was running, at "0" psi on the gauge, which BTW is located on top of the first stage condensation collection tube. I took a wrench, and started to crack open the stainless steel line coming out of the high pressure cylinder, to see if anything was coming out there. As soon as I cracked the nut, it blew the line out from the ferrule and nut, Knocked a dent in the wall, and wound up bent totally upside down. Noise as loud as a 38 special fired from a revolver! After cleaning my pants, I discovered there is/was a check valve at the bottom of the condensation tube, "where the line goes in from the top of the high pressure cylinder" that is one way "in". I presume to prevent back pressure getting to the compressor if you open a partially filled tank, etc. etc. That little check valve was STUCK CLOSED !!! The poor compressor was trying to work, but couldn't get past that first check valve. All the pressure was being built up in that small stainless line, between the cylinder head, and the bottom of the condensation tube. Took the whole tube off, and cleaned it out. It's just hollow, nothing inside. The check valve had a small green "O" ring that looked out of place. I lubed it, reinstalled, but it still would not open ????? So I took the green "O" ring off, and reassembled, and she's been working like a champ ever since. How in the heck that little check valve was holding all that pressure, I'll never understand. Yes, it was installed in the right direction. Blows my mind. Now I feel sorry for the poor thing, all this time it was trying. Now I'm using it more than my newer DAVV. ;) :D ;D 8)
Steve....can you share a picture of the area that you are speaking about?...I'm pretty sure that I've had that area open, and didn't notice any sort of check valve. The reason I ask, is that I am now having trouble with my beloved Carette....I have broken this machine totally down, upper and lower, and cleaned it, replaced orings, the belt, etc...This was at about the 90 hour mark, and all was well until recently....It stopped pressure at around 2500 psi...so time for another detailed maintenance at (153 hrs).....except this time, it exhibits the same symptom (no pressure beyond 2500)...no leaks (I spent hours verifying), changed the PMV, changed all orings, steel washers, etc (I've been to this dance before)...the ONLY other thing I can think of is the actual piston, and sleeve (which were cleaned, and seemed to fit with the same tolerance when re assembling)...UNLESS I am missing something small and sneaky.....
DJ
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No problem, in the pic, it's the fitting on the bottom. That stainless steel line comes directly from the top of the high pressure cylinder. It goes into the bottom of that black condensate tube, then out the line on the top, over to another tube, that has all the filter stuff in it, and from there the whip. I dunno about the green "O" ring. Besides, it seems as if it were a rather redundant check valve, as it has a much larger ball and spring check valve at the top of the cylinder. I dunno, and almost too old to care! Ha! Keep us posted as to your progress with your compressor. We might learn something new. ;)
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No problem, in the pic, it's the fitting on the bottom. That stainless steel line comes directly from the top of the high pressure cylinder. It goes into the bottom of that black condensate tube, then out the line on the top, over to another tube, that has all the filter stuff in it, and from there the whip. I dunno about the green "O" ring. Besides, it seems as if it were a rather redundant check valve, as it has a much larger ball and spring check valve at the top of the cylinder. I dunno, and almost too old to care! Ha! Keep us posted as to your progress with your compressor. We might learn something new. ;)
Hey Steve....I finally got the the Carette rebuilt, (I ended up finding the little valve you were talking about)...I too needed a new piston and sleeve (154 hours on it)...during the course of this rebuild, I replaced all O rings, and placed better gaskets on the low end (just cause), cleaned up all internals nice and shiny.....and Bam......back in service filling to 4500 with no sweat...HOWEVER....It is time for me to move on from the little Carette that could (I still love this thing, but I will now put it up for sale)....Because....this happened.....
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And airgunning hobby escalated a little more ;D
Marko
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;D ;D ;D
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Nice move Derrick. Now you have a "REAL" compressor. You know, if I totaled all the money I've spent on Yung Hengs, and the Kalitte/Carette, and DAVV, I could probably buy one Alkin, and have a lot of change left over! Good luck with the new compressor. She is a beauty. ;) :D
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Aw man that compressor looks sweet, unfortunately I bit the bullet today and bought the Carette compressor from JoeB (My Chinese Fast Filler was not up to the task for hogging up a 45 minute tank). Anyways, He looked stressed to heck today at the shop and I mainly got help from the assistant. The compressors working at the moment and hopefully will get back to working on the Hercules that's on the back burner. ): Overall the information being posted on the Carette compressor is very supportive. Thank you
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Aw man that compressor looks sweet, unfortunately I bit the bullet today and bought the Carette compressor from JoeB (My Chinese Fast Filler was not up to the task for hogging up a 45 minute tank). Anyways, He looked stressed to heck today at the shop and I mainly got help from the assistant. The compressors working at the moment and hopefully will get back to working on the Hercules that's on the back burner. ): Overall the information being posted on the Carette compressor is very supportive. Thank you
Charle...I STILL advocate the Carrette ....it's a darn good compressor that I, (and others) used a LOT!....maintenance and rebuilds if/when needed are easy....it was just time for me...to worry less about air, and dedicate more time to shooting (and buying)!
PS ...they are releasing a fanless design soon....
DJ
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Aw man that compressor looks sweet, unfortunately I bit the bullet today and bought the Carette compressor from JoeB (My Chinese Fast Filler was not up to the task for hogging up a 45 minute tank). Anyways, He looked stressed to heck today at the shop and I mainly got help from the assistant. The compressors working at the moment and hopefully will get back to working on the Hercules that's on the back burner. ): Overall the information being posted on the Carette compressor is very supportive. Thank you
Charle...I STILL advocate the Carrette ....it's a darn good compressor that I, (and others) used a LOT!....maintenance and rebuilds if/when needed are easy....it was just time for me...to worry less about air, and dedicate more time to shooting (and buying)!
PS ...they are releasing a fanless design soon....
DJ
:O After running the compressor for two days, the Mrs. seems to have no issues with the noise either and my tanks are filled. :)))))) Fanless...........o,O) I think the Omega compressor is also fanless..... but I should be thinking of mah wallet D: This hobby...........
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Welcome to the darkside of the darkside my friend!
DJ
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4 months into use (2-3 fills every week since), the automatic stop on the gauge has died...........I am watching it fill and the contact points aren't making a connection by the time the pressure needle comes into contact with the other two needles......Hmmmmmmmm dumbfounded.........Looking at other gauges under "YXC100" on the web and so far shows identical gauges, but with moved features......Not much info found on the gauge .....Have a feeling the alarm component hasn't failed.... need pictures.....