GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: K.O. on December 01, 2018, 01:38:33 AM
-
needs longer scope base... is my main fret barrel is pulled down by band at muzzle end space is -.05... need to shim scope or fix... will order 2 more barrel bands open one up and also try free floating and semi floating (oring or foam) the 12mm barrel... will also try two bands tuned to position... right now it might have a harmonic prob with the JSB Monsters... also did not have a lot of time but It seemed to open up groups above 170 bar with all pellets... may be because the barrel is only contacting towards the back of the barrel band and there is room up front to fit it upwards probably about the .048 it needs... may be a narrow seat cause there is horizontal stringing to the extreme with the monsters... so I will floss the band and see what happens as my first bit o tuning...
these groups were shot at 160 bar start psi...
Tack was put out at 50 yards...after the targets took three shots to hit very small breeze... misses were small... scope was adjusted after the monsters to what the snipers showed was needed... then sent 10.3 AA... and then finally we will not talk about the CPUM and Winne domed... need to check the forcing cone/chamber/ /leade loading did not feel right...
right now the only slightly tuned $86 Maximus .22 (WW clearance) is slightly in the lead because of comfort to shoot...Storm is wood and thus protected from haint infestation.. ;)
oh all shot using the single shot tray which can push out very easy while loading from right side by the roll push method... have not messed with the mag yet... another oh almost forgot... the Tasco 3-7x20 mounts are not wide enough to fit... scope use is a center poinT zombie sniper 4x32... not bad and shows promise for a $116 + 7 shipping + 9.5% tax rifle...
-
groups that were measured were measured OTO... and forgot the sniper mag group is 6 shots....there were four and a sneeze at just the wrong time... so sent # 6 do not think a ten shot group would be much bigger...
-
well some barrel pics...
this is absolutely the worst looking forcing cone...I have ever seen hacked into a barrel... I could do better with a Christmas tree bit in a hand held variable speed drill and have... there are chatter marks and actual gouges.. ??? :o :-\ :( / >:( ...
the chamber is very rough... like Crosman they have no clue about the need for a leade... so yep the breech end of the barrel.. ::) Diana you are supposed to be adding some German Q.C. ... well the guy checking barrels was asleep I guess...
I checked Two more .177 pellets... Sniper Med and the crosman Copper Mags... nope all over at 30 yards... So yep pretty nasty accurate with only two pellets at 35 yards so far...
Sniper Mags which fit just tight and AA 10.3 which are very loose...
I think the barrel is on the large size.1775- .1778 or so... rifling looks to be about .0005-.001... But here is the good... it is very lightly choked the last .75 inch of barrel... so yeah I guess I still have to scratch my head in wonder about how some pellets can handle a nasty breech end well enough to be about .4 ctc at 35 yards... :o :o :o ... oh crown looks nasty but steep and even no burrs... looks real bad but in reality is fine...Hope the chamber/leade work fixes some of the pellet pickiness... seems to on most barrels...
so My Mission is to clean up the breech end and hope the Mags and AA 10.3 are not affected in a bad way... In fact hope the single hole they make gets smaller... rifling does look great once past the breech/leade...
So the thing is it ... the little Diana still thinks it is German...
and a 20$ barrel I have well it shows signs of it being fate that it really is meant for Stormy...
an Air force orphan I picked up a while ago and has just sat waiting patiently...
First it is just very very slightly larger in O.D. and is already turned enough breech end to show it was meant for this Breech... as it is already turned down just the right size some... in fact it fits the Breech and Barrel band just slightly better than the stock barrel.. 8)
So what is the Prob... well The Monkey King really did a trick on it and if it gets the Barrel I will never be able cure it's German delusion... in fact quite the opposite it will be like enabling said delusion...
-
So Should it Become... an Diana Airforce(L.W.) Stormrider..? it almost seems like fate...
I can just hear it say "I am a Diana see my fine German match grade barrel" with it's little nose in the air...
"And I do love just how light you are" I say back...
-
I've only one PCP version, and an old MrodAir version at that....so with a sample of 1 (two if you could a co2 version), they've been very accurate rifles. So seem a little pellet picky, but definitely liking heavier weights than light weights in both.
Don't see how smoothing the rough forcing cone (or lead) would hurt anything unless it is done to excess (making that area oversized).
-
well that looks a lot like but a lot rougher than crosman... crosman are pretty smooth but sometimes the port sports a burr... but both have just square edge rifling which can cause fins on skirts which is not a good thing...I have done about 20 cowboy leade jobs with a dowel and wet dry...in the process the burr usually gets knocked down... it has really improved some of the barrels and widened what pellets the barrel liked...
After giving my .25 Synrod a leade the Kings were still just as good it really helped the Benji Domed and took the 40g BBT down to under an inch at 50 yards... That was the round I was doing it for... Need to make a 1* lapp to finish the job... still barely catching the edge of the drive band here and there... I am talking a very small ledge causing a very slight miss-load...
so yeah the approach on this barrel is grinding stone for fixing the forcing cone... just a very light clean up.. then wet dry smoothing concentrating on the chamber.... also will knock down the rifling some... then a brass rod lapp to finish the lead... or maybe just a modded drill bit butt and wear in the leade...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But got the Urban last night so had to go feel it out...
So today was ugly heavy day... so wen I went up to 3000 wet cold mild breeze cloudy feet... with the Urban and hard to see small stickers...All three jsb could have done better in a cradle/sled I know I was the weak link... the 15g would have been a bug hole size...
so me and the urban centered the poi in about ten shots; JSB 15g and then we hopped back in the truck to warm up... then hopped out and did a few groups... First I sent the JSB 18g low right is the oblong hole thought it was when I could not see another hole appear after my second shot... I think it not being a tighter group is me and my side rest... bout 35 yards
next I feel the two to the right were on me... charge is down to about 2600-2500 now using the Monsters...
got to the JSB 15g next and yes the low shot was me... it was cold sue me.. ;) the cudas well pulled the one to the right the decided to adjust aim point to try for the golden smile... ~2300 psi
The cpum well it was cold and they only like the warm conditions... I think that shot number 5 is still headed for Brazil Have no idea were it ran of to.... Zombie Sniper 4x32 target disappeared when you were on... That was enough and a drizzle restarted so sent some 50 yard 18g dead branch hits and headed down the canyon... was taking the Urban in and spotted this guy below by my stang...asked him were the white rabbit was.... he said ask Bill and ran away.. ;)
-
Should have worn gloves...
-
well was able to get to my buddies house for a few took the urban for a few well lit 35 yard test shots in the falling snow...used yesterdays zero plate
first up were the Eun jin domed and yep the high one is on me...I will just say will be stockin up... then the Cosman pointed at about 2200-2300 psi... already pretty well stock up... and yes once again the reason it is not a single hole was me...
I think with a lower fill the Superdomes might not throw those two first shot up..?
I then tried the ruger 16g points... did not think they would do well and they did not... found with my Mk 1322 (crosman barrel) they did not like above about 750 fps...aim point was bottom right smile...
they did so bad and knowing the Remmy domed would be hitting high;had to shift aim point... to make it hard on myself I split my aim to inline with smile but at bottom edge of plate no mark to aim at... had smile giving good horizontal centering indication upper part of thin part of the duplex ret... crosshair on bottom edge imaginary diagonal cut half smile...
poi was half to real smile as you can see...I was smiling big time till shot 4 went just a touch low... really shanked shot 5 trying to make four of five in one small for .22 hole...
then had some some fun spinners, cans and such out 30-50 yards with Crosman pointed and the Remmy domed... did get a red plastic army man at 45 yards first try almost at the edge of light...with the Win domed...
so yep I am pretty happy with how many pellets it does well with at 35 yards so far....
The RWS may do better with lower velocity not so sure it will like the Ruger points at any speed...not a very pellet picky barrel/rifle so far what is not to love...
the orchard shooting is nice but only shrouded barrels used... do not want to bother the neighbors... so the can does it's job... even the storm makes the cut... just the Max and Buccaneer having no ldc/shroud are banned oh the MK-1322 is limited to 16 pumps...
My bud thinks the Storms single shot tray should have the stop on the left also... he likes to feed from the right also...
I have had zero probs with my Buccaneer's magazine... the Urban... well it glitches with the bolt a bit here and there... want the single shot fitting...
-
Single shot fitting (Urban) is not all that easy to use with some pellets...others seem to fall right into place. Either way, it's still not the easiest little slot to fill unless you break concentration (where most of the top-fill single shots can be leaded pretty well by feel).
I like single shots, so really wanted it to work well....didn't. Pellets with larger diameter skirts tend to hang up on the skirt, which makes them sideways to the closing bolt. Pellets with a skirt just a little smaller (but still shoot great) just drop down like they are suppose to about 19-20 times....the 1 out of 20 are usually found to have bases a little out of round...which makes them slightly fat...which brings us back to the same problem as fat-skirt pellets.
I'll enlarge it into a slight taper....but it tends to tick me off to have to phart around with what SHOULD have been such a simple little bit of injection molded plastic..
-
OK...it'spretty much the same as the .177 I have (MrodAir version).
(WHY...guess more than one of you bought one recently (the Gen. I's were on a pretty good sale at ASirGun Depot...and it'sa very lite/tidy little rifle for most hunting that I've found very useful.)
OK...although YOU have likely read all the oldpost...will post a summation again for those who haven't.
#1. Get rid of the LDC.
Gen.I LDC's are really a poor example of an LDC. That fat LDC actually only has a 10mm hole though the middle. IN that hole is a set of baffles about the size of a milk-shake straw. The volume is really really small and really can't handle the air being passed per shot(the Gen II reportedly have a bit better LDC).
The balck straw is the size of the hole though that biglooking LDC:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/plink/608d5c86-638d-4110-b521-0065a4f401fe.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/plink/608d5c86-638d-4110-b521-0065a4f401fe.jpg.html)
Replaced it.
#2. Adjust the one screw there is for the trigger...but it'skind of a hidden screw.So you'll need to destock it, take out the trigger,and then adjust the hidden screw. Will get rid of most of the two stage feel, but will results in a nicer trigger.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/plink/DSCN17271.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/plink/DSCN17271.jpg.html)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/plink/DSCN17281.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/plink/DSCN17281.jpg.html)
#3. There is no external striker spring adjustment, but you may not want to mess with it. If it runs over a pretty even bell curve type shot count from a max. fill (lets say 2900psi as a max),then the strength of the stiekr springis pretty much "right":
As issued tune: fast for a .177,but pretty well in line with the pressure range.
(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/plink/bdbee2a6-4a28-4f2a-b291-483a315bb266.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/plink/bdbee2a6-4a28-4f2a-b291-483a315bb266.jpg.html)
#4. If you want to play with reduced transfer ports,then it can work.Seems to spread the total energy produced into more/but smaller bites rather than actually change the total energy produced all that much.
(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/plink/b0d51c58-61e5-41b1-b979-3a3d9101c556.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/plink/b0d51c58-61e5-41b1-b979-3a3d9101c556.jpg.html)
#5. The barrel band/sight base seems important to the system...at least on mine (and the co2 version) it is. Just not a whole lot of reciever/barrel shank,and the screws are suspect (very common for one or two of them to be stripped).the barrel band actually does do something (good).
Bad has a tiny screw...don't go crazy tightening it or it will break.
If the breech/barrel fixation screws proove to be stripped....then try the ones from the removed LDC before running out to buy replacements (even if they stick up a little bit,it'sgoing to be under the scope where it will do no harm).
About here, I quit messing with it and just got into shooting the rifle. Seemed "good'nuff"for whatever I'd be doing with the little gun.
(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/plink/e8b90d3a-eaf6-4e10-984e-ecdae1219464.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/plink/e8b90d3a-eaf6-4e10-984e-ecdae1219464.jpg.html)
(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/plink/4e973ba5-35dc-48c5-bd12-23c2aee9a81a.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/plink/4e973ba5-35dc-48c5-bd12-23c2aee9a81a.jpg.html)
GUESS THE POINT OF THIS for you K.O. is this.
Would do all 5 of the above no matter what. Certainly before considering spending much more than the price of the whole rifle for an LW barrel made to fit. You won't lose anything by tying the above, and just might decide that the Chinese can actually make a pretty good barrel.
-
will post more text in a few..
-
Stormrider : I added an extra barrel band to mine, mounted as far forward as to not intefear with the fill port. Recrowned and smoothed out the leade. Added aftermarket ldc. The rifle shoots H&N 5.54's with laser like precision.
Urban : Absolutely hated everything about it and it went back.
-
Just because it's been a problem on a few Urbans, "gut" the LDC and try it without the clam-shell insert. Will be loud, but if it shoots better, you pretty well know the baffles/plastic flashing are a problem.
-
OK...there is a vid on the LDC that I found after the fact.
But it's pretty much a no-brain operation as the LDC is kind of keyed together.
#1. Drive the two roll pins (As small enough to just use a small solid drift to get them out).
#2. Lift up the end cap. It might be tight enough to need s blade to get it started(mine was).
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/urban/e17c8199-e79f-46f1-b18c-43c418e2087c.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/urban/e17c8199-e79f-46f1-b18c-43c418e2087c.jpg.html)
#3. Take a look-see under the end cap. The red plastic baffel set is kind of keyed into the housing.
On this one,can see what I call "feathers"...haven't been enough to really screw accuracy, but they certainly can't be doing anything good.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/urban/e784be78-0bcf-444d-a182-87875fb641ae.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/urban/e784be78-0bcf-444d-a182-87875fb641ae.jpg.html)
#4.Mark 12 o'clock (or 6 -o'clock for all the difference it makes) in order to get it back in the same orientation it came out.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/urban/d52a6170-7ccc-4476-85f7-2a7e4cb0bb90.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/urban/d52a6170-7ccc-4476-85f7-2a7e4cb0bb90.jpg.html)
#5. Hook the red inner set of baffles with something rounded/dull (so as not to mangle it) and pull it free.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/urban/f18a1f03-dbd8-4d6c-bf67-9f5cb6899515.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/urban/f18a1f03-dbd8-4d6c-bf67-9f5cb6899515.jpg.html)
#6. The red baffle unit is a "clam shell" system with molded "pegs"to align the two hlaves.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/urban/8651a8b7-f552-49e5-b9c4-6cd5a1dc272e.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/urban/8651a8b7-f552-49e5-b9c4-6cd5a1dc272e.jpg.html)
RIGHT ABOUT HERE you could put the end cap back on with the baffle unit out of the system....or shoot it with the baffle unit and end cap out of the plastic LDC housing.It will be lound (actually, with the end cap off and the baffles out, the tube acts more like a noise amplifier than an LDC).
#7. Look for any signs of pellet clipping(dings on the edges of the baffles) and any flashing/plastic feathers that could contact the pellet as it passes though. Can usually cure it with a small sharp blade (just don't egg them out to a larger size).
#8. As you maked 12 o-clock, it will go back in the way it came out...press on the end cap..check the pin hole alignment... and drive the pins back into place.
Will give Gamo credit.... while it is a non-detachable LDC...they didn't make it so you couldn't get the "guts"out....and you can get an eyeball on the actual muzzle crown.
-
OK...a head to head test...although I kept in in the best-of-the-best sweet spot range for either of them.
.22 Urban:
.177 Storemrider gen.I (in this case a MrodAir "Varmint"...but it'sthe same critter).
LEts take them at face vaule,no excises, not re-dos. There is like .01"difference in C-T-C spread (which acutully makes for a plus for the .22 Gamo as it has a bigger "shadow"around the center point)....but as Uncle Harry was known for saying, "It makes no nevermind
Yes..will "keep on keeping on to at least 50yards(hanging around .75-.85" for 15shots/ 3-5shot groups)… which is enough fore the energy level.
If you DREAMED of a cheap PCP giving sub 1"groups at 100yards,,,,keepo on dreaming for one that would do that consistently.
-
well from this quick and dirty testing I have a lot of possable different pellet that may improve with some tuning to find each pellets sweet spot
for now well there are the Eun Jin and 15g JSB need to get a bit more serious watch cheek weld breathing ect...and see what they can do at distance...
I have to get off my rear and cast some more ,217 BBT using 1.5 tin... I had not high expectation for them... they are rejects from my first casting session...rounded slightly uneven bases, wrinkles... have about 20 .217 BBT left and about thirty of the .220 BBT... thing is I cast them with 4-5 % tin they are probably about 10 bhn or maybe more because of trace sb... been savin them for fire lapping barrels... so <2 moa .6 ctc at 35 yards around 600 ish fps pretty encouraging...no lube
Ed inga was doing pretty good with the .217 BBT out of his Urban... and no signs of instability out of the I think 1:19 twist...at the 75-80 yards he checked for me... I will send some that far also just confirm results with a second urban...
he was at 13.5 turns in on the power and was at ~640 fps... I still am at stock settings... he was also running harder lead a probable 8-12 BHN... SASS range scrap...looked like running some lube tightened up groups for him...thread in Pellet an Boolit gate...
That is why in a while I will turn the wick up... goal is MOA at 40 yards with softer lead & more speed...and maybe lube maybe not...
May do a mild fire lapp if the choke starts leading...
The BSA barrel is .0001" smaller in diameter than the 24" Remmy 514 barrel I have.... I think the Urban is laying claim...
another 9" of barrel...hmmm gain 50-70 fps... to get them to about 33-34 fpe... and flying a bit flatter... I think I may be able to go Urbaneer with it if it proves accurate with the BBT 30g and Noe 37g and 39g...and that would add another ~50cc of psi...
So yeah long term have plans for the Urban...
The Storm well it will be staying with pellets but it being from my son it will get spoiled with easy change barrels... planning for three so far... gotta see what it will do with a 26" barrel...