BSA R-10, now what?

[Racing]

Always nice when you pull a job and get paid as in two PCP guns! One of them this BSA R-10 in .177"cal and the other an early Evanix AR-5 (Duk Il arms).
As i got it, didnīt hold air. No wonder..havenīt seen use or service since Stonehenge.



Have to admit to being impressed with it. Very very nicely built old rifle with a rather anal approach to detail. It HAD been sitting around for a while though, and albeit a Mk2.. weeeeell..
Using 8,4īs across the FX brick of mine handed 3,1 Joules 



Took the reg apart.. nothing at fault i could see at least so back together again it came. Off with the rear cap and out the stock very feeble hammer spring came. Quick dive into "the spring drawer" made me end up with a slightly heftier, and WAY newer, one.. and kept adjusting stiffer n stiffer..
Why at the end before closing shop i saw about 30 Joules.
Bolted a LDC to it and that in liason with the stock shroud made it.. silent. For real.

Anyways guys.
As much as i LOVE the deal in itself i really donīt know what to do with it? Granted iīve got a new found respect for the .177"cal on pests (read - rats) but that being said i wouldnīt be a stranger to making this a 22 or 25cal by replacing barrel, modifying the probe.. yadda yadda..

That said this is a REALLY neat little carbine why i at the same time is giving serious thought to keeping it .177"cal and just push her a tad to reach like 50J at will? Barrel on there, as iīve gathered, is the longer version which is on approx 400mm. Guess thatīd suffice for that task huh?

What iīm thinking is of course yet another "ratter" just a more compact such and in the lightest of calibers.

Any ideas on the subject gents? Hit me up, all ears!

[Racing]

Btw.
As this is the later Mk2 regulated version, anyone out there aware of volume of the plenum on this thing? IS there any for starters?

[ranchibi]

Jesper, nice R10 you acquired! Very well built and I do hope you keep it...maybe mod it into a .20? Anyway, beautiful gun!

[rkr]

The plenum in those guns is limited and getting past 40 fpe is problematic requiring major modifications - which is bad news for .25 caliber swap. The regulators in these guns have bad reputation and many replace them with HUMA units. I'd keep it in .177 and make it a short 12 fpe carbine, 8" or 10" barrel with LDC would be a good match for the bottle length and still get decent shot count.

[Racing]

The plenum in those guns is limited and getting past 40 fpe is problematic requiring major modifications - which is bad news for .25 caliber swap. The regulators in these guns have bad reputation and many replace them with HUMA units. I'd keep it in .177 and make it a short 12 fpe carbine, 8" or 10" barrel with LDC would be a good match for the bottle length and still get decent shot count.

I hear ya.
This just me thinking out loud, but as the bottle is past its heyday anyways why not jump the entire plenum debate and install a buddy bottle incl a reg and then block off the original all together? Thatīd at least hand some volume me thinks?
Worst case, make a short plenum to fit between the main block on the gun and the new bottle/reg?

Or am i off entirely?

[rkr]

I did it like this using the first air tube part from BSA Ultra as a plenum. This was just something I put together from my parts bin but it should work for R10 as well.

IMG20220809152735 by abbababbaccc, on Flickr

[Racing]

Then iīd say weīre on the same page.
Will look into how solving this.

Donīt get me wrong. The idea here is NOT for a "fire breather", got others to handle that part, but more so a well and nice shooting "ratter".
On that note, have to say that them H&N 20 grain pills in 177 have come to impress me severely. They DO make short notice of the d*mn rodents. Too. All to aware that the same series holds lighter slugs too.

Dispatched a larger one week that passed (just shy of half a kilo) and that 20 grainer.. welp. No hesitation what so ever. *Pfuff*. Youīre dead, in your tracks. End of story.

[rkr]

For rats .25 shooting around 700 fps would be excellent, 30ish fpe and trajectory good enough for 40+ yards while dumping about all the energy in the target. I've had good luck pesting with H&N Baracuda hunters but they are only 10.5 grains in .177.

[Racing]

Uhu.
Push came to shove and seeing this thing has just been standing around since Stonehenge i opted to pick the entire thing apart. Happy i did, got to look into a number of issues.

Probe seems a tad damaged at the front so i believe iīll make a new front and install. After all simple enough, and while at it get rid of that nickel plating too.

Thought iīd pick the reg apart as well and hand it some TLC.

Got a few spare bottles laying around, on larger volume, but honestly.. i find the smaller bottle a design feature. As in part of the looks of the gun, which is saying something i guess.

Any luck going back together the next couple of days and hope the work invested will be worthwhile.

[SADave]

You can get a stainless steel probe from Apex

https://www.apexairguns.com/bsa-r10ultrascorpion-stainless-steel-loading-probe

Good luck on your project.

[rkr]

The flaking probe problem normally happens under the probe where the ball bearing rolls against the probe surface. Damage at probe nose is probably caused by magazine not locked in place.

[Racing]

Thx guys.

Yeah. I figured as much. Easy enough to remedy on the lathe though. I get why the plating was done, should have been a different material all together tho, as in stainless for instance.
But whatever really..

Yes. Most likely someoneīs used ample force to damage that probe front. Will take the measurements needed and turn what i need i guess. As the probe is what it is grease will sure help.

All in all i have to say that the build is rather "elaborate". Lots of parts, nooks n crannies.. No matter though as thereīs real good vids on YT on even the small bits n pieces - so all good.

Todays exercise will be about going through the regulator block, the bottle and what not. Got a few spare bottles laying around, all on M18*1,5 though, that are larger and.. well.
Undecided.
Feel the gun will be looking its best on the stock offering but.. future will tell i guess.

[Racing]

Yeah. This thing has sure been dormant for a while cause.. nope.
Itīs NOT supposed to be green in there. Thatīs just plain wrong 

So yeah. Cleaning the entire regulator/main block up was/is needed no doubt.



In turn. Iīve seen my fair share of regs by now, whatīs up with them zillion belleville washers? On that note, how far up can these things be adjusted, being very well aware of the 232bar limit of it.

The probe in turn.
Yes. It had seen more violence than needed. As i put the thing on the lathe to take a few cuts it FELL apart at the thread for the banjo. So.. to *ell with it, iīve opted to make me a new one out of hardened steel.
Enough already, and keeping heavy machinery it sure isnīt the end of the world. Before heading home tonight the thing was like 50% done so..

Yes. Yes, i DO work on guns.. just not PCPīs. PCPīs are a hobby so.. let it take the time it needs and get done right the first try out. Could i have opted for stainless? I guess, but in all honesty around here weīre about as spoiled as they come when it comes to steels in general and i happened to have a piece of SIS-2541 tool room laying around so.. reasoned as such that why not?

On that note.
RKR.
I believe you wrote somewhere that a slug probe is a bad idea on these rifles for some reason? I seem to have missed why tho, if i could ask you to spill the guts on it please?

[Racing]

As it has come up...
Yes. I work on powder burners, mainly old ones.
Around here those are exempt leaving that many that donīt want to hazzle with permits take that route. Yep. Apart from working on electronics really (mainstay) i do work on these older pieces why i thought iīd show a couple of examples as an off topic exemption.



This pic taken by close friend Patric. It is an original Colt 1860 Army that was made in 1861, one of my own guns. Works like new after the work invested. Wanted to keep the original patina as the gun.. kind of craved that.
Real nice shooter, being a Colt, and very very reliable (which certainly canīt be said for most of them!)



Then thereīs those where the ship has simply sailed, this was one of them - why i opted to toss the entire book at it. Again one of my own guns, i use this one for CAS (Cowboy Action) as one of a set of two. Both being Remington New Model Army 44īs.
Made in 1864 and works just as well as did it back then.



Last but not least a rather rare revolver from 1864. A Freeman 44 Army. Less than 2000 were claimed to have been made. Very "modern" in its design and handling.

Anyways.
Now you know what i do, apart from electronics, why it might be a tad more clear that i donīt really shy away from even more in depth jobs on PCPīs. 

[rkr]

I assume you mean needle nose probe? They become a problem with self indexing magazine. If you make the needle long enough the magazine may crush pellet skirts or jam totally as it may start rotating before the probe "body" part gets in to the drum. This is especially a problem if you shoot both slugs and pellets. You can make it a pull back probe if you want to avoid that problem and get max performance, I have some photos somewhere if you are interested.

Very nice revolvers you have, that Colt looks amazing.

[Racing]

Ah.
Yes. Even more of an issue with a gun that carries its breech seal on the actual probe. Hm. Point taken.

[Racing]

Yeah. About as boring as anything gets, the gratitus lathe pic. Uhu, a fresh pellet probe in the making.



Have to say. Many a times this here with close tolerance is anything but when it comes to many PCP rifles. Not so with a BSA R-10 though. Like the main diameter of the probe, as it fits within its sheath, weīre talking dead nuts 9,00mm. Goes to show ya i guess.



No. No, a friggin pellet probe will never turn "sexy". Granted. No matter, i made this one with a separate front piece to be able to toss n turn by just replacing said front piece as i see fit.
As weīve touched upon, it might very well see the development of a more dedicated slug setup.. need to readress that such a case scenario.

Then. More to it than meets the eye. Yes, the "middle section" of it needs to be drilled n tapped for the "banjo bolt" these guns sport. In turn the front actual "pellet" version.. counter drilled at 4,2mm (this is a 4.5mm gun remember).
In turn the detent section for the ball detent needs to be provided for and what not.

No matter. The probe is now out of tool room steel and as such i really couldnīt care less as far as any flaking and what have you. This thing wonīt budge, iīll tell you that much.
Nope. No need to harden it already as is the material comes in at like HRC 56 or so..

[rkr]

While you are at it increase the probe turning angle to prevent it from popping open when shot. Here's the pull-back probe thing showing the increased turning angle (probe nose not finished):

IMG20230505162111 by abbababbaccc, on Flickr
IMG20230505162118 by abbababbaccc, on Flickr
IMG20230510112304 by abbababbaccc, on Flickr

[Racing]

Hm. A little late to the party i guess, but truth be told that ball detent setup kind of works. Keep in mind that this is NOT a "powerhouse" kind of deal so keeping  the thing shut at the after all rather sane power levels at hand...?

Got to dress the thing up today, again, and got to fire it at least. Still dead silent, it really is. No IDEA as of power level as of current, thatīll be the next step i guess. On that note, that regulator setup with a bazillion belleville washers.. what will it take? As far as pressure i mean.
Could really do with an added pressure gauge me thinks. RKR btw. I run a Finnish made Jaki suppressor out front and it works REAL well in combination with the stock BSA shroud setup.

As weīve been onto though iīve entertained and played around with a 350cc bottle today. Sure. Thatīd bring an adapter, which i guess would be a good thing in this case?
Now giving thought to a "limited" volume CF bottle (say close to the 300cc mark) with a regulator at the end, handing that i could remove the stock regulator and block the stock holes left off entirely and that way gain a little plenum volume.
No.
No iīm NOT after plenum enough to "sustain" anything really, just reasoning as such that these days we regard that there with plenum size a little different and as the R-10 as i understand it was mainly developed as a 12fpe gun.. a tad of plenum volume sure wouldnīt hurt and.. every little bit counts as i see it.

But.
"Ratter". Indeed. Rats are mostly nocturnal which brings active IRīs and thermal. Yes, i do run a thermal but then mainly as a spotter. An Infiray which by any means sure can be installed to any given rifle really but.. iīve, as many others, come to rest with the thermal to help locate the critters and then active IR to dispatch.



So yeah. I do run Pards, Yukons and what have you. Then this little thing, which is rather novel around here. An Accufire Noctis TR-1. A US made piece, out of Texas i believe.
Last generation active IR? I guess, but as much as i feel the Accufire being the real deal the thing here is that MAYBE they should have waited like 6 months to a year before letting it set sail and hit the general public.
It oozes of high quality, thatīs certainly not the issue, while at the same time suffering from whatīs no doubt software issues.
For instance.
Got two "modes". Traditional and Ballistic. The former.. doesnīt hold zero. Nope. Not an issue as youīre USING the thing, it is however after being put away and being called upon again. Doesnīt happen every time.. but happens.
Being a US based manufacturer i bet they will get it sorted out aaaaaaand.. that will no doubt make this piece come full circle. That aside, about got every bell n whistle you could ask of it.
But yeah. In contact with Accufire directly to be informed of when that software/firmware update is available, cause it sure needs it.

As i stood there putting the rifle back together i noticed the end plug for the hammer spring was missing. No IDEA where itīs at which ended up in me turning a new one on the lathe. Hammer spring is a way stiffer deal, which is called for as i see it.
But yeah.
I hope to get to tuning the thing next couple of days, time permitting.
Where thatīll end up is anybodys guess at the moment. Iīll of course keep you guys posted.




Then. I find the BSA R-10 a REALLY good looking rifle. Nimble, light and with very pleasing lines - to the eye. However the Minelli made stock had a rather "mundane" hue to it so i took to handing it a tad of dye, all for the better me thinks.
That darker hue.. kind of makes a real purdy rifle even more so. Iīm one of those that LOVE wooden stocks on guns while at the same time i absolutely LOATHE clearcoated ones.
(Reminds me... need to strip that &^^& off of the Duk Il/Evanix Hunting Master AR-5)
Anyways.
idea here is to hand it stock oil over time to see where it "settles", getting darker n darker for every layer i bet.
Nah
Happy with that.

[rkr]

R10 can indeed win some airgun beauty contents. Your's seem exceptionally light in colour so perhaps some dye should be used? Anyway, bolt swings up at 12fpe bur it only starts to pop open and retract at 45+ fpe so you are probably good to go. It's just that I hate poor designs so I try to fix it when possible. According to John Bowkett the bolt action design was BSA alone and it kind of shows if you look at the banjo to probe bearing nose contact width - less than 1mm so no wonder it pops up.