Hatsam Vortex Type 1 Ram..What Am I Missing??

[Ronno6]

I will say that, even with heat applied, it takes a good deal of effort and a good-fitting wrench to get the gland out.
I had to crank the ram tube in the vise pretty securely in order to hold it.
I had previously been afraid to do that fearing distorting the tube shape and affecting operation.
But, having found that there is NO piston inside (STILL floored  by that..)allayed those fears.........

Gotta clean the threads in the tube out well,tho.

[Ronno6]

Several of the Vortex air springs i own have "max velocity @ 125 bar" printed right on the tube. I have tried the "150 bar max pressure" on a couple rifles and I DID NOT LIKE THE RESULTS!! Velocity plateaued or went DOWN above 125 bar and both rifles needed TWO hands to cock. Shot cycles were HARSH and almost knocked the fillings out of my teeth! Accuracy also went DOWN because the rifles bucked like a mule and I FLINCHED in fear on every shot.

But... go ahead and try for yourself! You may be one of the few who like an air rifle that has maximum energy and minimum accuracy ;-)

The first Striker Vortex I toyed with was low on pressure, so I pumped it up to 1800# with my hand pump...or so I thought!
The gauge musta been a tad off, and the ram got way too much precharge...
It took 2 grown men and a teenage boy to cock it, and .25cal pellets were chronyi9ng at about 1200fps.......
I didn't like that, but the Type 3 ram had no way to release pressure.....(finally leaked down and I just replaced the O-rings....)
I swapped it out with an NP2 ram and been happy ever since.
When I disassembled to do the swap, I found the cross pin thru the breech was bending under the strain.

[H95Kidd]

Several of the Vortex air springs i own have "max velocity @ 125 bar" printed right on the tube. I have tried the "150 bar max pressure" on a couple rifles and I DID NOT LIKE THE RESULTS!! Velocity plateaued or went DOWN above 125 bar and both rifles needed TWO hands to cock. Shot cycles were HARSH and almost knocked the fillings out of my teeth! Accuracy also went DOWN because the rifles bucked like a mule and I FLINCHED in fear on every shot.

But... go ahead and try for yourself! You may be one of the few who like an air rifle that has maximum energy and minimum accuracy ;-)

Hey Mikey---  H95Kidd here. You, and many others, may recall the recent "fun" I had replacing the defective Type1 Vortex ram on my model 95. Happy to report she's still shooting just fine. Quite the learning experience doing that job. I'll certainly follow your advice next time if I ever need another g-ram replacement. Anyway, and just a FYI, both the defective ram, and the new replacement Type1 ram Hatsan sent me, indicate "Max 150 Bar" printed on them. I found that number very interesting, in view of your experience filling them to pressures higher than 125 bar. Wonder what the thinking is there at Hatsan headquarters placing that info on these rams? That info printed on the tubes kinda INVITES folks to charge them to 150. Clearly your experience indicates pressures this high are not likely to produce satisfactory results. I would be willing to bet the "standard" Hatsan fill pressure is more like the 125 Bar you indicated. 

[mikeyb]

My Vortex air springs are printed with "max velocity at 125 bar, max pressure 150 bar". My read is that the factory pressure is 125 bar (confirmed velocity to spec on my rifles using  a chronograph) and max SAFE pressure for experimenters is 150 bar. At 150 bar my rifles, my arms, my cheek bone, and my ears were getting pretty trashed. i am satisfied that ~125 bar is the best choice for MY rifles.

[Ronno6]

I wonder..........
Would increasing the diameter of rhe head of the button head screw on the inside end of the rod increase the ram's extensiom force??
It would provide more atea for the gas force, and present no additional cocking force.......
Or, would the force be neutralized by the pressure on the exposed underside of the head?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[mikeyb]

I wonder..........
Would increasing the diameter of the head of the button head screw on the inside end of the rod increase the ram's extension force??     No. Shaft area and pressure set force.
It would provide more area for the gas force, and present no additional cocking force.......
Or, would the force be neutralized by the pressure on the exposed underside of the head?      Yes, those forces cancel.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Ronno6]

I wonder..........
Would increasing the diameter of the head of the button head screw on the inside end of the rod increase the ram's extension force??     No. Shaft area and pressure set force.
It would provide more area for the gas force, and present no additional cocking force.......
Or, would the force be neutralized by the pressure on the exposed underside of the head?      Yes, those forces cancel.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Somewhere along the line I got stupid........
I have replace the O-rings in 2 Hatsan ram glands so far, ant it was a pretty easy task once the gland was removed from the cylinder.

Not so with ram #3. I cannot get that O-ring completely in the groove and it is driving me crazy........
Any technique revelations??

[mikeyb]

I wonder..........
Would increasing the diameter of the head of the button head screw on the inside end of the rod increase the ram's extension force??     No. Shaft area and pressure set force.
It would provide more area for the gas force, and present no additional cocking force.......
Or, would the force be neutralized by the pressure on the exposed underside of the head?      Yes, those forces cancel.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Somewhere along the line I got stupid........
I have replace the O-rings in 2 Hatsan ram glands so far, ant it was a pretty easy task once the gland was removed from the cylinder.

Not so with ram #3. I cannot get that O-ring completely in the groove and it is driving me crazy........
Any technique revelations??

My first guesses would be debris (old piece of o-ring still in place) or possible damage to the slot..
Do you have a bore-snake camera? That would make inspection much easier and more thorough.
If there is some leftover old o-ring stuck in there I'd make a scraper tool out of some rigid plastic to "clean" the slot without damaging the soft brass.

[Ronno6]

i can pretty much see the grooves, and run an O-ring pick around checking for debris.
But, ya never know........

[Ronno6]

Is there a chance that older Vortex rams used a thiller gland O-ring, say 1.5   C/S as opposed to 2mm?
Pretty difficult to measure the groove........

[Ronno6]

Headslap..........

I discovered that somehow i was working with 2.5mm CS O-rings.......
I think I purchased them as a possible replacement for an Umarex breech seal....

They LOOKED right, so I was not correctly comprehending the info on the package.
Once I measured the CS of the O-ring, I had an AHA moment......

I was trying to make a blivet......

Locating the bag with the correct size O-rings solved that problem.......

DOH !!!