Why 13xx with longer barrel vs an actual rifle?

[Sh00ter]

I was thinking (as I always am) about SHTF and hunting and just wondered why anyone would choose to make their 13xx gun as large or almost as large as a break barrel or even a pump rifle? I would think the main claim to fame for the 13xx is the size. Otherwise, I think I would prefer a break barrel or my 1977xs over any 13xx gun for hunting/survival.

I think the main reason I am such a fan of the 13xx guns is the power vs the size. That is why I am shooting my longer barreled 13xx and 22xx guns less lately I think. They are cool too, but unless you are married to this platform and/or love target shooting, I just don't see it. My 1977xs does ~800fps with a lead pellet @ 10 pumps...it is about the same size as a 1377 carbine with a TKO on it. The 13xx still has the sound vs size advantage there though. But some of my NP guns are plenty quiet and not much larger than a full 13xx carbine w/ silencer.

I think that is why I have shifted my goal to keeping my SHTF guns w/ the 10.1" barrels. One does have a 5" donnyfl w/ threaded barrel band, but I can remove it if I need more compactness. 

Educate me why the 2289 and larger 13xx type guns with the longer barrels would ever be better than a gun than a pumper or break barrel rifle for hunting/SHTF if you were not wanting to stow it in backpack? For the 2289, if you didn't care about a silencer, I think you could still do a folder on it and stow it, but I do like the 10.1" barrel better because even with a silence it is same length as 2289 without one.

[Back_Roads]

 Best to cover all bases, some game may need a more powerful gun, best to have options long to short, high to low power. 3 guns of varying performance would be my minimal picks for a shift situation.

[Sh00ter]

Best to cover all bases, some game may need a more powerful gun, best to have options long to short, high to low power. 3 guns of varying performance would be my minimal picks for a shift situation.

Agree having options is good, but no way I will be carrying a full-sized airgun if SHTF...I will have a powder burner for larger game and protection, so the airgun must be able to stow away except when i need to take small game. So that narrows it down to the 13xx platform for me. Compactness is their main attraction for me even without SHTF.

[avator]

When I think SHTF situations I think rough and tumble. Last thing I want to drag around is a long skinny barrel or excess weight. That narrows the platforms a bit. I like my 9fpe chopper break barrels such as Private Stryker or the Firecat.

[Sh00ter]

When I think SHTF situations I think rough and tumble. Last thing I want to drag around is a long skinny barrel or excess weight. That narrows the platforms a bit. I like my 9fpe chopper break barrels such as Private Stryker or the Firecat.

Cool, tell me more! Are those custom? 22cal?

I still think you could stow a 1322 w/ folder and get 9FPE or more with mods and be lighter and more compact, but I am intrigued by these guns you have as I've never seen anything like it in a rifle. A 10/22 style folding stock on one of those would be really cool. Seems like there are several break-barrel pistols with folding or removable stocks in 22cal that exist?

[avator]

Sure.... Private Stryker is a Hatsan 1000k S with the barrel chopped and crowned, the main spring cut and tuned to 9fpe and then stuffed intot a Webley VMX stock.
Firecat is a GAMO Silent Cat chopped and crowned and main spring cut and tuned to 8fpe. It has a CDT trigger and custom paint scheme by Shadow. Both are .177.
Here is the thread on the Firecat and I'd have to dig deeper to find the one on P. Stryker.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=98794.0

Both started out as sub $50 pawn shop finds.

[Sh00ter]

Sure.... Private Stryker is a Hatsan 1000k S with the barrel chopped and crowned, the main spring cut and tuned to 9fpe and then stuffed intot a Webley VMX stock.
Firecat is a GAMO Silent Cat chopped and crowned and main spring cut and tuned to 9fpe. It has a CDT trigger and custom paint scheme by Shadow. Both are .177.
Here is the thread on the Firecat and I'd have to dig deeper to find the one on P. Stryker.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=98794.0

Both started out as sub $50 pawn shop finds.

Very impressive!

Can you elaborate on why you chose 177 vs 22 for these guns?

I am curious what the performance would look like between the two on those custom platforms. 177 probably shoots flatter and 9FPE plenty for small game at 20yrds and less?

[avator]

Sure.... Private Stryker is a Hatsan 1000k S with the barrel chopped and crowned, the main spring cut and tuned to 9fpe and then stuffed intot a Webley VMX stock.
Firecat is a GAMO Silent Cat chopped and crowned and main spring cut and tuned to 9fpe. It has a CDT trigger and custom paint scheme by Shadow. Both are .177.
Here is the thread on the Firecat and I'd have to dig deeper to find the one on P. Stryker.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=98794.0

Both started out as sub $50 pawn shop finds.

Very impressive!

Can you elaborate on why you chose 177 vs 22 for these guns?

I am curious what the performance would look like between the two on those custom platforms. 177 probably shoots flatter and 9FPE plenty for small game at 20yrds and less?

You basically answered your own question. .177 is flatter and 8 - 9 fpe is plenty to put something to eat on the campfire in a SHTF situation. The break barrel is cock, load and shoot... none of the pump, pump, pump, pump of a multi pump. Also, keep in mind, these are 6 and 8" barrels. A 10.5 gr .177 pellet is easier to get moving in a short barrel that a 14.3 gr .22. Once those pellets leave the barrel what you have is all you get.
Besides... they were both pawn shop finds... I didn't get to pick calibers.

[Sh00ter]

Sure.... Private Stryker is a Hatsan 1000k S with the barrel chopped and crowned, the main spring cut and tuned to 9fpe and then stuffed intot a Webley VMX stock.
Firecat is a GAMO Silent Cat chopped and crowned and main spring cut and tuned to 9fpe. It has a CDT trigger and custom paint scheme by Shadow. Both are .177.
Here is the thread on the Firecat and I'd have to dig deeper to find the one on P. Stryker.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=98794.0

Both started out as sub $50 pawn shop finds.

Very impressive!

Can you elaborate on why you chose 177 vs 22 for these guns?

I am curious what the performance would look like between the two on those custom platforms. 177 probably shoots flatter and 9FPE plenty for small game at 20yrds and less?

You basically answered your own question. .177 is flatter and 8 - 9 fpe is plenty to put something to eat on the campfire in a SHTF situation. The break barrel is cock, load and shoot... none of the pump, pump, pump, pump of a multi pump. Also, keep in mind, these are 6 and 8" barrels. A 10.5 gr .177 pellet is easier to get moving in a short barrel that a 14.3 gr .22. Once those pellets leave the barrel what you have is all you get.
Besides... they were both pawn shop finds... I didn't get to pick calibers.

An outstanding answer...It is no secret that I go back and fourth on 1377 vs 1322 and I always seem to fall on the 1377 side. However, I do think for closer shots, the 22 has the advantage. But maybe the 177 is the better SHTF choice for the slight range and accuracy advantage from a shorter barrel rig. I decided to keep the 1322 as a pistol and make the 1377 a folding carbine, but both keep the 10.1 barrels. Either would work for pesting, but I will probably grab the 22 w/ no magnification for pests and use the 1377 for targets and SHTF hunting.

Having said all that, in a 7-8" barrel, I would want 177 for the reasons you mentioned...and in a rifle chassis, I would want to be able to take a shot farther than 10-15yrds anyway. 22 in a short barrel too loopy...I converted one of my 2240's to 177cal because of that very reason...much funner to shoot targets with now.

EDIT: in a regular length barrel rifle, would you still choose 177 over 22? I think in PCP for serious hunting, I would choose 22, but for the medium power range, I still think 177 has the range/accuracy advantage that is significant enough until the 22 gun you pick reaches a certain power level. I am disenchanted though that my Remington NP break barrel does less FPE with 10.5gr than with lighter pellets.

[avator]

Sure.... Private Stryker is a Hatsan 1000k S with the barrel chopped and crowned, the main spring cut and tuned to 9fpe and then stuffed intot a Webley VMX stock.
Firecat is a GAMO Silent Cat chopped and crowned and main spring cut and tuned to 9fpe. It has a CDT trigger and custom paint scheme by Shadow. Both are .177.
Here is the thread on the Firecat and I'd have to dig deeper to find the one on P. Stryker.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=98794.0

Both started out as sub $50 pawn shop finds.

Very impressive!

Can you elaborate on why you chose 177 vs 22 for these guns?

I am curious what the performance would look like between the two on those custom platforms. 177 probably shoots flatter and 9FPE plenty for small game at 20yrds and less?

You basically answered your own question. .177 is flatter and 8 - 9 fpe is plenty to put something to eat on the campfire in a SHTF situation. The break barrel is cock, load and shoot... none of the pump, pump, pump, pump of a multi pump. Also, keep in mind, these are 6 and 8" barrels. A 10.5 gr .177 pellet is easier to get moving in a short barrel that a 14.3 gr .22. Once those pellets leave the barrel what you have is all you get.
Besides... they were both pawn shop finds... I didn't get to pick calibers.

An outstanding answer...It is no secret that I go back and fourth on 1377 vs 1322 and I always seem to fall on the 1377 side. However, I do think for closer shots, the 22 has the advantage. But maybe the 177 is the better SHTF choice for the slight range and accuracy advantage from a shorter barrel rig. I decided to keep the 1322 as a pistol and make the 1377 a folding carbine, but both keep the 10.1 barrels. Either would work for pesting, but I will probably grab the 22 w/ no magnification for pests and use the 1377 for targets and SHTF hunting.

Having said all that, in a 7-8" barrel, I would want 177 for the reasons you mentioned...and in a rifle chassis, I would want to be able to take a shot farther than 10-15yrds anyway. 22 in a short barrel too loopy...I converted one of my 2240's to 177cal because of that very reason...much funner to shoot targets with now.

EDIT: in a regular length barrel rifle, would you still choose 177 over 22? I think in PCP for serious hunting, I would choose 22, but for the medium power range, I still think 177 has the range/accuracy advantage that is significant enough until the 22 gun you pick reaches a certain power level.

I think in a SHTF situation it would be advantageous to perfect stalking and stealth.
Maybe an even more efficient skill would be fishing. All that's needed is some line and a hook. Much easier to carry and ammo is unlimited.   

[K.O.]

20 pumps 22" .22, ~24 accurate fpe(21 + with 14.3 cphp)...not hold sensitive... side rest, front rest, from tree, rock, shooting stick and so on...when no rest can use the hasty sling/other sling supported method, which I grew up using... lite weight. removable stock...

lets see, oh it does not need or eat expensive "springer" rated scopes or need "drooped" scope mounts...

In the early and mid 1980's I spent a few years working from fall thru early mid spring to finance being "out" the rest of the year...carried a ~18 fpe Benji .22 strapped to my pack to help extend my supplies... high desert and other places like below...

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=jarbidge+wilderness&form=HDRSC3&first=1
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=desolation+wilderness&form=HDRSC3&first=1
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ruby+mountains&form=HDRSC3&first=1

never have much liked sproingers and honestly see them as heavy and disadvantaged compared to pumpers as a survival/hunting tool... back then there was not much choice on pellets... what you shot back then was the green tin Benji pellets...so what you had better like them...

SHTF, I got old and stubborn a bit will stay where I am...

 but yep 24 fpe and modern pellets; bucks wind/rain better extends range and takes bigger game than a short barrel low fpe 1322...

the MK1322 only manages to send MY home cast BBT 30g out at ~550fps but that will get you dinner at the 35 yards mark 'cause it will hit a quarter at that distance every time... good luck doing that with a short 1322 pistol or .22 springer... the independence of sending self-made ammo... priceless..  

have been thinking of sleeving the MK1322 barrel to .5" with brass tube just for some added ruggedness...

 

[Sh00ter]

20 pumps 22" .22, ~24 accurate fpe(21 + with 14.3 cphp)...not hold sensitive... side rest, front rest, from tree, rock, shooting stick and so on...when no rest can use the hasty sling/other sling supported method, which I grew up using... lite weight. removable stock...

lets see, oh it does not need or eat expensive "springer" rated scopes or need "drooped" scope mounts...

In the early and mid 1980's I spent a few years working from fall thru early mid spring to finance being "out" the rest of the year...carried a ~18 fpe Benji .22 strapped to my pack to help extend my supplies... high desert and other places like below...

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=jarbidge+wilderness&form=HDRSC3&first=1
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=desolation+wilderness&form=HDRSC3&first=1
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ruby+mountains&form=HDRSC3&first=1

never have much liked sproingers and honestly see them as heavy and disadvantaged compared to pumpers as a survival/hunting tool... back then there was not much choice on pellets... what you shot back then was the green tin Benji pellets...so what you had better like them...

SHTF, I got old and stubborn a bit will stay where I am...

 but yep 24 fpe and modern pellets; bucks wind/rain better extends range and takes bigger game than a short barrel low fpe 1322...

the MK1322 only manages to send MY home cast BBT 30g out at ~550fps but that will get you dinner at the 35 yards mark 'cause it will hit a quarter at that distance every time... good luck doing that with a short 1322 pistol or .22 springer... the independence of sending self-made ammo... priceless..  

have been thinking of sleeving the MK1322 barrel to .5" with brass tube just for some added ruggedness...

 

awesome...what is that barrel band contraption?

Although, as large as it is, I still would choose a real rifle and stow my airgun in my pack. What you have would be perfect if you were only going to carry an air rifle for SHTF and a real pistol on your side for self defense. I would rather have all 3 which means the airgun must stow away when not hunting.

[K.O.]

it is a hose clamp...the grip frame is secured to the pump tube with it instead of a screw that secures it into the valve... part of what allows it to have a ~.24 ci valve instead of the ~.13 ci of a hogged out 13xx valve.. works very well...

[Sh00ter]

it is a hose clamp...the grip frame is secured to the pump tube with it instead of a screw that secures it into the valve... part of what allows it to have a ~.24 ci valve instead of the ~.13 ci of a hogged out 13xx valve.. works very well...

What is the thing on the front/ barrel band holding the front sight?

Also, where did you get the "special" valve from?

[K.O.]

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=78749.0

been just slightly improved since then..

[Warburrito]

I always have the same thing on my mind.  I originally thought NP springer was the answer and I like my Quest SBD, but it's just too heavy and long to carry if I'm on the move for an extended period.  I went with a SPA PP750 and pump, but now think that combo is too heavy and bulky too.  My mind then went to the 1322, but I held off on a 1322 until Crosman's Custom Shop opened back up since it was the cheapest way to get what I wanted, but now that it's back open (at about 50% increase in cost) and I'm thinking a 362 might be a better option, but still contemplating it.  It's around twice the weight and power of the 1322 and quite a bit longer.  I'd love to know how much weight I could shave off by removing the stock and coming up with something lighter, possibly a small pistol grip and stock made up of something I would be carrying anyway, like a hiking pole.  I'd be all in on the 1322, but I always planned on upping the power with flat-top, valve, and longer barrel.  Now I'm thinking I could get all that power with the 362 in stock form if I could just trim a little length and weight.  Knowing myself, I'll probably buy both and justify it by making another airgun "my daughter's".  Plus, Academy sports has the 1322 online for $50 right now.  Love the topic, thanks for sharing!

[Blowpipe Sam]

I carry a “truck gun” in the form of a sawed off .22 cal  Crosman Fire.  We have had to bug out more than once for Hurricanes  and while the gun has never been needed it is there if I want it.  17 fpe with 14.3gr pellets and plenty accurate it is a lethal critter getter.

In a SHTF scenario I don’t intend to be bugging out.  We will be hunkering in the bunker here at Camp Weownit.  In that instance a quiet air rifle is a major asset.  I don’t want to be scaring off all the game and alarming the neighbors shooting PB’s.  Bill is right.  Fishing tackle, traps, and snares will put more food on the table for less effort.  Combine that with an  air rifle and you have the stealth advantage.

The question of modifying a 13XX into a rifle is answered by the C362.  If you want more power you know where to get it and IMO the basic platform is a better starting point than a 13XX.

[Methuselah]

It's probably covered, covered, and covered, but if you are asking why make a 1377 (or 1322) bigger, the answer IMHO is it's all you. If you need the butt stock to make sure you put that rabbet or squirrel in the stew pot then have it on there. And .22 vs .177, well, sorry if this sounds elitist, but isn't that really all you too ... I think you are "equal to the burden" on that decision, no?

Sorry if I came off like an arze ... didn't intend to!

[bantam5s]

The 13xx will always be a modular takedown type platform that nothing else really does.
There's even a British guy who has come up with a thread quick detach barrel so you can take the gun down to a very compact form.


Some people aren't all about the absolute most performance highest velocities.

For me well the 13xx just doesn't work out well as a pistol, for pistols I like the 2240 and my H9a which is better than the 13xx pistol could ever hope to be.

[Sh00ter]

I always have the same thing on my mind.  I originally thought NP springer was the answer and I like my Quest SBD, but it's just too heavy and long to carry if I'm on the move for an extended period.  I went with a SPA PP750 and pump, but now think that combo is too heavy and bulky too.  My mind then went to the 1322, but I held off on a 1322 until Crosman's Custom Shop opened back up since it was the cheapest way to get what I wanted, but now that it's back open (at about 50% increase in cost) and I'm thinking a 362 might be a better option, but still contemplating it.  It's around twice the weight and power of the 1322 and quite a bit longer.  I'd love to know how much weight I could shave off by removing the stock and coming up with something lighter, possibly a small pistol grip and stock made up of something I would be carrying anyway, like a hiking pole.  I'd be all in on the 1322, but I always planned on upping the power with flat-top, valve, and longer barrel.  Now I'm thinking I could get all that power with the 362 in stock form if I could just trim a little length and weight.  Knowing myself, I'll probably buy both and justify it by making another airgun "my daughter's".  Plus, Academy sports has the 1322 online for $50 right now.  Love the topic, thanks for sharing!

I probably should have quoted all the new replies today but I'm just quoting yours and will give my thoughts.

I have decided I like the 13xx guns mainly because of their compactness. Even when adding a folding stock, if you keep the barrel the stock length, you keep it as a nice compact backpack gun. You can add a threaded barrel band and have it quieter too, but the LDC can be removed to save length when not in-use. I think for anyone who wants this type of platform, they should decide what game they want to be able to take and keep shots at a close enough distance. I don't really see increasing the power w/ flat tops, etc as giving larger game killing power, more just increasing the effective range maybe on the same sized game the stock 13xx guns can kill (especially w/ 15 pumps on a stock gun).

For SHTF, I don't see a flat top that needs oiling more often as a good choice? Probably be better to just have a stock gun with extra parts in your stash if it is truly a meat getter for SHTF.

For hunting I would prefer a stock of some kind, but the range on the 13xx guns with stock barrel is limited due to the power, so I always struggle with whether or not to add a stock vs the ultimate compactness of the pistol. Perhaps in the 13xx guns, a stock gets you 15-25yrds of meat getting and in pistol form it is more like 5-15yrds? I can still fire my guns with the folding stock as a pistol if I want to, but then I can't use a scope. So therefore, for now, I have multiple 13xx guns and the pistols have red dots and the stocked versions have scopes...would probably be worth while to carry both in a true SHTF situation but then you have to decide what caliber first LOL...which I can NEVER do. I still need to be convinced the 1322 can penetrate well enough vs 177 on critters...pointed 177 pellets give the flatter. longer shot but still may have good penetration in 177. I need to test 1377 vs 1322 accuracy and penetration from the stock barrel at 20yrds or more to see if the loopy, slower pellets could make the longer shots or not.