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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General > "Bob and Lloyds Workshop"
Simplified Balanced Valve
oldpro:
The alloy holder with all the holes will need to be made of steel or very thick. Ive snapped my fair share of them.
Rairgunner:
--- Quote from: rsterne on April 17, 2023, 02:34:30 PM ---Thank you for destroying a very valuable thread with your rant.... >:(.... I see that your "Watched" label is still required, something I will be requesting....
I, Scott, Travis, Lloyd, and many others have built way more custom PCPs, valves and hammers than you could ever hope to achieve, and the relationship between hammer mass and momentum is well documented.... With a conventional valve, if you lighten the hammer (less dwell), you must increase the energy (more spring force and/or travel) to compensate and keep the FPE (area under the lift/dwell curve) unchanged.... The opposite also applies, a heavy hammer can deliver the same FPE with less energy (lift).... The Physics comes into the basic understandings of lift being proportional to energy, while dwell is proportional to momentum (once the energy to crack the valve is subtracted).... As I tried to explain, the flow through the valve, if opened more than 1/4 of its diameter, no longer increases with lift, so for a valve that is ACTUALLY opening that far (easy to measure, but also quite rare in an efficient PCP), all you are left with to change the FPE is a change in dwell with hammer momentum, be that achieved by mass or spring energy.... Just because you happen to disagree is no reason for the rest of us to throw out that valuable piece of information.... or a reason to rant....
While there may be certain valve configurations (balanced, semi-balanced, operating with a hammer or poppet stop, etc.) where the lift does not change (because it cannot), the lack of relationship between lift and dwell as you change hammer mass is caused by those other factors, and your statement, if applied only to those situation, may well be correct.... There is your middle ground.... Accept the fact that you are not always right, or leave the Workshop, please....
Bob
--- End quote ---
wow. What a clown. First you say no ego allowed then you post this &^^&. You have a huge huge ego problem. This is enough to make me leave this forum and never come back. Absolute nonsense
avator:
--- Quote from: Rairgunner on December 27, 2023, 06:17:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: rsterne on April 17, 2023, 02:34:30 PM ---Thank you for destroying a very valuable thread with your rant.... >:(.... I see that your "Watched" label is still required, something I will be requesting....
I, Scott, Travis, Lloyd, and many others have built way more custom PCPs, valves and hammers than you could ever hope to achieve, and the relationship between hammer mass and momentum is well documented.... With a conventional valve, if you lighten the hammer (less dwell), you must increase the energy (more spring force and/or travel) to compensate and keep the FPE (area under the lift/dwell curve) unchanged.... The opposite also applies, a heavy hammer can deliver the same FPE with less energy (lift).... The Physics comes into the basic understandings of lift being proportional to energy, while dwell is proportional to momentum (once the energy to crack the valve is subtracted).... As I tried to explain, the flow through the valve, if opened more than 1/4 of its diameter, no longer increases with lift, so for a valve that is ACTUALLY opening that far (easy to measure, but also quite rare in an efficient PCP), all you are left with to change the FPE is a change in dwell with hammer momentum, be that achieved by mass or spring energy.... Just because you happen to disagree is no reason for the rest of us to throw out that valuable piece of information.... or a reason to rant....
While there may be certain valve configurations (balanced, semi-balanced, operating with a hammer or poppet stop, etc.) where the lift does not change (because it cannot), the lack of relationship between lift and dwell as you change hammer mass is caused by those other factors, and your statement, if applied only to those situation, may well be correct.... There is your middle ground.... Accept the fact that you are not always right, or leave the Workshop, please....
Bob
--- End quote ---
wow. What a clown. First you say no ego allowed then you post this &^^&. You have a huge huge ego problem. This is enough to make me leave this forum and never come back. Absolute nonsense
--- End quote ---
Or you can just wait until we ban you... again.
Motorhead:
--- Quote from: avator on December 27, 2023, 06:31:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Rairgunner on December 27, 2023, 06:17:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: rsterne on April 17, 2023, 02:34:30 PM ---Thank you for destroying a very valuable thread with your rant.... >:(.... I see that your "Watched" label is still required, something I will be requesting....
I, Scott, Travis, Lloyd, and many others have built way more custom PCPs, valves and hammers than you could ever hope to achieve, and the relationship between hammer mass and momentum is well documented.... With a conventional valve, if you lighten the hammer (less dwell), you must increase the energy (more spring force and/or travel) to compensate and keep the FPE (area under the lift/dwell curve) unchanged.... The opposite also applies, a heavy hammer can deliver the same FPE with less energy (lift).... The Physics comes into the basic understandings of lift being proportional to energy, while dwell is proportional to momentum (once the energy to crack the valve is subtracted).... As I tried to explain, the flow through the valve, if opened more than 1/4 of its diameter, no longer increases with lift, so for a valve that is ACTUALLY opening that far (easy to measure, but also quite rare in an efficient PCP), all you are left with to change the FPE is a change in dwell with hammer momentum, be that achieved by mass or spring energy.... Just because you happen to disagree is no reason for the rest of us to throw out that valuable piece of information.... or a reason to rant....
While there may be certain valve configurations (balanced, semi-balanced, operating with a hammer or poppet stop, etc.) where the lift does not change (because it cannot), the lack of relationship between lift and dwell as you change hammer mass is caused by those other factors, and your statement, if applied only to those situation, may well be correct.... There is your middle ground.... Accept the fact that you are not always right, or leave the Workshop, please....
Bob
--- End quote ---
wow. What a clown. First you say no ego allowed then you post this &^^&. You have a huge huge ego problem. This is enough to make me leave this forum and never come back. Absolute nonsense
--- End quote ---
Or you can just wait until we ban you... again.
--- End quote ---
PRICELESS
Rocker1:
I hit him again gentlemen i wasnt sure if it was him but its kinda obvious. what is he possibly getting out of this. David
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