H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc



Author Topic: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc  (Read 3826 times)

Madkoifish

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H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« on: March 04, 2011, 02:48:45 AM »
Ok, here I go another thread!
This one I am posting with questions related to my old abused bad beaten hb17 (gun says h9a series and I think the box says so as well)
I am wondering what should be done to restore this gun to it's former glory. She is chipped been dropped welded up and used heavily for over 20years. So what is out there for parts mods and so on.
I would like to use this strictly for target practice and a secondary gun for when I go out shooting with friends who do not own a gun. I have considered making a shoulder stock for it stripping the finish and repainting it or just burnishing the brass body and getting the scope clamps and putting a simple scope or red dot on.

The seals seem to be still in good shape the cocking mechanism is really loose. It lacks the rifle style bolt but a spin and pull deal and atm just moving the gun it rotates out, I have since bent the side plate to add friction. And other than the re-welded pump arm it still works OK. It seems useless for shooting anything but paper in the garage atm.

So in the end other than dumping some oil on the hinge side of the seal and putting grease on the hinge points and oiling the stock once in a while I have no idea what I will need to do to restore this gun. I have scrubbed the barrel out a few times with gun oil and some wadding nothing more.

So is it worth any effort or time to bring this thing back or should I put it on the shelf for the memories and look to a 13** for messing about with?  No I have no intention of selling it.

Madkoifish

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Re: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 09:51:54 AM »
Opps that should be refurbishing not refirbs in the title. I have not found much on these guns so far outside of resprays and polished brass alterations.

 I am toying with making a custom shoulder stock Not sure if a wire is possible with the butt on this thing. (drilling and tapping a hole off of this part. I could mold one off the stock mounts and braze in extra pins inside of the grips for extra screws to support it all.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 06:19:00 AM by Madkoifish »

Madkoifish

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Re: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2011, 06:04:49 AM »
No ideas?  I have seen some comments about changing the valve on this thing for more power, but nothing beyond that. I have found the sights on this thing are what is dodgy, realigned them and it shoots fairly consistently now so I think all I have to worry about is cleaning it up and possible replacements of old internals.
I have been looking at dots and scopes. Im at a complete loss since I do not know squat about scopes. dots etc. I do know pistols req a different relief or scope. I am hoping to keep this cheap since it is for sub 25yrd plinking. So something that will use the intermount 11mm dovetails without buying rings or other conversion plates rails etc.

Stuff I have looked at
Leapers_Golden_Image_4x32_Rifle_Scope_Mil_Dot_Reticle

4X is probably too much. eye relief I guess means if I carbine this (shoulder stock) it might work but as a regular pistol it probably wont work?

Leapers_UTG_Golden_Image_Red_Green_Dot_Sight_1_Tube_Weaver_11mm_Dovetail_Combo


Aftermath_RD30_Socom_Sport_Tactical_Dot_Sight

I have even considered a lazer for just to mount something to the dovetails for now.

CenterPoint_Quick_Acquisition_Laser_Sight_Adj_for_Windage_Elevation_11mm_Weaver_Rings
I would not be against peeps or some other sight but I cannot find anything that would mount to the originals location.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 06:18:11 AM by Madkoifish »

Offline Toolmaker

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Re: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2011, 05:19:00 PM »
 There used to be a wire stock available for the old Sheridan paintball pistols. It will fit the HB series pistols. I see them for sale sometimes or you could fab your own. Here are a couple of pics:
  • Mountain Rest, SC
My favorites: 1974 Sheridan Blue Streak, Steroid Sheridan H9A, Steroid Benji 392, Benji 397C carbine, Benji HB22, Crosman 400, Crosman 1377

Offline Toolmaker

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Re: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2011, 05:22:51 PM »
 Here is a pic of my HB22 / 1377 hybrid (HB22 with 1377 grip frame) with an Ultra Dot red dot mounted. I love this pistol!
  • Mountain Rest, SC
My favorites: 1974 Sheridan Blue Streak, Steroid Sheridan H9A, Steroid Benji 392, Benji 397C carbine, Benji HB22, Crosman 400, Crosman 1377

Madkoifish

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Re: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2011, 07:43:34 AM »
Cool, that stock looks like it would be easy to fabricate.  Im considering making new stock and pump handle, make it as a single piece then split it so while closed it appears as one piece. This as well will let me bolt the pump handle on vs the rollpins. I do not want to butcher my existing pump stock to use screws. The welding needed to fix the arm has made the rollpins a mess and well those were the cause of the arm breaking in the first place. Allowing the pump arm to wobble inside. ATM I am using pins in either side to scissor/ wedge the stock in place. Should be visible in the photos lol.

That grip and trigger fits without mods? How does the trigger feel compared to the original? I also see you have a different end cap, bit that holds the spring back there in. Is this something you had milled? I was wondering how I could extend it or replace it without access to a proper mill to cut out the clearance for  the breechpin. If I can extend it it would make a easy place to extend a shoulder stock with some brass or alum off of.

I do need to check a friends 1377 to see how wide the grip is without the sides. The nb is 1/2 So I have some ideas to use some scrap alum to bodge out a temp grip and shoulder before I make a wood one. That or if the 1377 is 1/2" wide I can use that shoulder stock that crosman sells with some bodging.

Madkoifish

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Re: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2011, 08:07:20 AM »
Here is a quick doodle to show what I am thinking of.
This would be the wood idea or to make a grip, butt stock and make a alum arm or brass arm to pump. Though if I can find parts or a way to pull a buttstock off of that rear tube cap I could go the other way.
I do not have a mill or router so the stock would be all file dremel and freehand bandsaw stuff and gasp chisel. Gotta locate a lump of wood too. Probably maple since that shapes easily, likely laminated too since Im really not sure I can find a lump thick enough without dropping a large sum. However if that trigger grip is easy enough I might be able to bodge aftermarket 1377 stuff?
Id love to extend the barrel or put a muzzle break or the like to soften the report of the gun. Or a fat bull on it to protect it some too. Though I really do not know if any of this stuff would do anything for the gun outside of looks.

Having a *(&^ of a time deciding on a scope or dot for this. 4X sounds way too much for a pistol even if I put a stock on. So I think for now, maybe Ill just get that one 30mm dot and hope for the best or go with the lazy lazer and then later on locate a decent 2X without spending 50$+ Since I only paid 60$ for this gun back in the 90s.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 08:20:11 AM by Madkoifish »

Offline lillysdad621

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Re: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2011, 12:31:11 PM »
i have also used the 22xx grip frame on my hb20, but unless you have a wooden stock to match the handle it looks horrible. As far as mounting a scope, use the b square mount that is used on the izh46 pistol, it will give you a weaver rail that sits lower than the sheridan blocks. As for power, remove the back screw on the pistol grip, take the cap off and take the hammer spring to the harware store. get a stiffer spring, or get a ball bearing that will fit in the cap to preload the original spring and voila!, a little more power. remember that pumping the gun to its max 8 pumps is annoying and if not done ok, it can hurt. develop the correct grip and then 8 pumps become a breeze. I get 480 fps out of mine with the heavy 14.3 cylindrical.

Madkoifish

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Re: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2011, 08:27:09 PM »
I have not had issue with pumping it, I think the .177 model has a lighter pump. I have had this gun for decades now I think heh, so if anything I worry mostly about the bits inside.
That rail thing I cannot find that brand yet. I have found these though

One made for benji, it wont work though mounts to the breech and well only one of those clamps would fit hah.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Venturi_Intermount_Fits_Benjamin_Sheridan_Multi_Pump_Rifles/2015


and another for that Russian match pistol. beh out of stock at pa, it appears this is the knockoff since the bsquare one is no longer made. Cannot get sizes for the clamps though my hb17 is .354" or 9mm
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Venturi_Scope_Base_Weaver_Picatinny_Rail_Fits_IZH_46M/3077


The bit your talking about is what is in this combo right?

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/izh-46M-air-pistol-combo.shtml
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 09:04:09 PM by Madkoifish »

Madkoifish

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Re: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2011, 10:56:50 PM »
Erm ok I stacked a old slipper spring from one of the rc cars into that rear spring. It is quite a bit stiffer and takes up about 1/4 in maybe more. all I noticed is stiffer cocking action and the trigger is more sensitive. Not sure how this affects the gun to add power. Though if it wont affect things badly I do like the trigger more now. :p Ill try a small spacer in there next.

Madkoifish

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Re: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2011, 09:57:53 AM »
Ok I dropped for the crossman doves, since I could not find barrel info on that other gun. Ill be tossing the stock screws but figure if it fails I just wait for PA to get that one in stock and give it a try. I also went with that red dot over the lazer. It probably wont do much for me but for now it should be easier than pliers and screwdrivers constantly since the rear sights keep doing it's own thing on me. :D

from what I found online it is the same as the BSA and a few other "brands" Just some are weaver others are 11mm dove or 20mm?  Dunno once i go buttstock I will probably buy a cheapie leapers scope. Just locating a 1~2X is ehhh in the sub 50$ range.

I removed that spring, it was forcing me to cock the gun prior to pumping. I did not like this, without it cocked it would leak air into the barrel. I will see what I can find for a stiffer spring in the same length and see if this does anything. Only thing I noticed is a stiffer trigger. The distance I was shooting is about 8yards (my garage depth) Impacts seemed identical. Grouping is &^^& 1" cause I need new glasses and always that one arrant pellet. hahaha getting old not worthy. I hope the dot will help some there since I do not have to focus at 2ft and 25ft at the same time. (standing pos no resting etc.) I not so good at pistol too, really not so good.

Madkoifish

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Re: H9a series .177 also known as a HB17 refirbs mods etc
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2011, 10:34:13 PM »
Been a while since I posted to this. Busy playing with my pc77. But since plans change I might have proper access to some of my tools so I mocked this up today.
Thinking of various ideas on how to carbine this gun. Stock is opened up mostly for weight. and ignore where that red dot is. it would be all the way back against the breech. Only drawback with this design is I would have to laminate the wood to get the opening for the gun or to manually cut and carve out that opening. The skinny bit at the top is just to flow lines and will just cradle the gun. I would likely pin the stock at the bottom for strength.

Plans are to mock things up in some cheap wood test it likely cut it up and bodge bits in while I decide final lengths heights etc. I have not decided on type of wood since I have to see what availability there is. Nor colour of stain etc.

The pump grip would be last since I have to replace the whole pump arm underneath and likely will end up drilling out that roll pin since it is in and is not budging. The metal end cap I think has fused to it enough that Id have to have a pin press to get it out. And that is something I do not have. Not to mention the ability to mill a jig to cradle the tube in to avoid damaging it. Idea is to drill out the pin enough it is easy to break up then replace it like a 1377 pin with ss rod or the like. Mellon Air has benji/sheridan pins for the 20cal streaks and if I remember those tubes are the same dai.

I have yet to decide if I will strip the gun to brass. Unlike the newer guns the whole thing is brass. Grip frame and all. I am going to need to locate a trigger and see what I can do about that crappy spring on the sear. It isnt like a 1377 and puts a lot of pressure on things. The trigger seat has a groove from 13yrs of shooting things and just having the sear pushed onto it.

I also have plans to alter the bolt. Since the knob screws off I plan to replace it and either make and tap a new end cap so it has a bolt similar to the benj rifles or just drill and tap a bolt handle onto the existing knob. This is one of the only dislikes I have with this gun other than insane pumping force (least vs a 1377) Is the bolt handle.

Anyhow opinions on the stock.

How do you word it... "Air Guns" or "AirGuns"?