Hatsan 125 "Review"

[Methuselah]

Hello again folks - first post was intro (which I updated, was struggling using cell phone for a keyboard).

This upcoming weekend will be the end of the 30 day return period from Pyramyd Air so, I don't want to be critical yet as we are still learning how to hold and shoot it - which is why I didn't do the review on their website yet.  Pellets ordered for trying it were:

H&N Crow Magnum .25 Cal, 26.23 Gr.
Benjamin .25 Cal 27.8 Gr. Domed
H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme, 28.4 Gr.
JSB Match Diabolo Exact King 25.39 Gr.
Predator Polymag 26 Gr.

Most accurate so far seems to be the Crow Magnums.  We didn't try the Predator or Baracuda rounds yet, the JSB's seem to have more pellets than the Crow Magnums that feel loose during loading, and the Benjamins are all loose and group look like they were fired from a shotgun.

Best groups are mediocre so far, but we only fired 150 - 200 rounds and most were before using JB bore paste and a nylon brush X30 strokes on the barrel (then goo gone and MP5).  Last 10 yard try was ~ .75 inch prone, and before cleaning and properly adjusting the scope for parallax, 2 1/2 to 3 inches at 25 yards before that.  I'm expecting better on the next 25 yard attempt, but I doubt it will be impressive...

About the total experience so far, Pyramyd Air did the 10 for 10, and maybe that's all they do is fire it ten times and attach a chrono tape.  Their numbers indicate it dieseled the first round or two and settled in about 786 fps with 19.91 grain H&N Field Target Trophy rounds.  It continued to diesel after setting it down between weekends at least the first shot or two, and even more during days when it went horizontal while the second rifle was being fired (a Daisy 880 given to me at work that wouldn't pump up until I cleaned some debris from the o-ring and wiper, more on that one will be a separate posting).  I suspect with QC issues tending to be predominantly drooping barrels, that the 10 for 10 may have had them picking and choosing at least on this account?  I want to give them the benefit of the doubt...

With the JSB's after it stopped dieseling, chrono was about 800 fps using the Crow Magnums, so I put on the Leapers 3-12x44 SWAT (etched graticle).

Pyramyd air on the original Optima scope - it didn't focus so they said if I was wanting a replacement it was a bundled package from Hatsan, so the rifle and scope would have to be sent back together.  They gave me Hatsan's phone number and extension.  Hatsan referred me to a youtube video on adjusting the focus, but was very cryptic/unclear about the eyepiece-end adjustments I had asked about.  On the ocular side you can unscrew the end, or the bell (by loosening a lockring just behind the power adjust ring).  The video only addressed the objective end.

Youtube video:  T97GCZqbZio

Of that encounter with Hatsan, it was Friday and apparently near their going-home-time, so after seeing the video and not getting any questions answered that weren't already clear from the phone conversation, it was a wasted weekend trying to figure out if the Optima scope was going to focus at any range.  Monday got me another conversation, and with what info I was then armed with, it became obvious on the following weekend no amount of tinkering was going to make any difference.  Due to the unclear initial instructions, I was also told not to turn the ocular end (which I already did), but the (2nd) tech thought the scope seal was still unbroken - I didn't share that optimism.  Anyway, they sent a replacement (I mentioned Pyramyd would have allowed me to return the whole package, but I believe they would have done the right thing regardless).

The 2nd Optima scope is better, and to Hatsan's credit the tech told me he checked it before shipping.  However, it shipped Thursday, arrived Monday ... only one weekend left if I want to see it mounted before it becomes non-returnable.  It's not a great scope by any stretch of the imagination, but there are so many posts about this scope, no point in saying more except maybe that it's going on the Daisy 880 because the Leapers is now on the Hastsan 125.

Not stellar support from Pyramyd considering the initial order was also delayed because their website said the Leapers scope was in stock, but they were out - a two or three week delay after arranging a pickup at the house (which they backed out signature charges on after I asked them to).  While still on the subject of support, I think Hatsan should be more versed on questions about the scope, but again that's beating a dead horse.

The rifle.  Hmmm, many called it a beast, hard to cock, heavy, a long gun, with heavy recoil, and issues I researched spoke mostly of Drooped barrels, hit and miss ability to make good trigger adjustments, bluing blemishes, and some that simply will not shoot a small group no matter what you do (mainly crown and/or seals?).

Overall quality seemed very good, some "casting flash" on the scope rail to be filed off later on, some MINOR bluing flaws with accompanying surface rust, dirty barrel (maybe mostly dieseling residue?), and perhaps one glaring design fault - holding it fully cocked for the purposes of de-cocking can't happen because that barrel position holds the safety, so if you cock to clean the barrel, or just inspect it (twice I pushed a pellet through with a fiberglass rod) - you are stuck with loading and firing it.  I'm sure I left out some stuff here but IMNSHO it is a well thought out machine wholly adequate by the sum of its parts to shoot accurately for a very long time.

My only real gripe is the 30 days to figure out if it has glaring issues isn't enough for someone who only has weekends to check it out.  I did not expect the learning curve on scope parallax, the number of rounds needed to get the gun to stop dieseling, and still have no idea if the yet unadjusted trigger pull is keeping us from seeing a decent enough group to be able to conclude it will properly break in and get good accuracy.  On this account I wish I knew someone in my neck of the woods that is used to firing a magnum springer to eliminate the likelihood most of the inaccuracy is self-inflicted.

The only thing I see that suggests otherwise when it comes to (trying to) finding a reason for the poor grouping based upon possible defect is the crown.  It is recessed into a moderator/sight combination that makes it pretty much impossible to take a good picture so you good folks could look at it with me!  It is minimal, perhaps between 1/64th and 1/32nd inch chamfer that looks as if it has concentric rings in it that may or may not be even in height.  I did see one pic on the web (maybe Youtube) of a Hatsan barrel crown that looked to be the same width as mine on a gun reported to have very good grouping, and still need to check it with a q-tip.  My biggest worry is the modulator/sight may have to be removed if the crown needs reworking.  I don't want to send it back to the factory if the crown isn't causing my mediocre groups!

Well - this coming weekend if weather permits I will try out the newly polished barrel 125 on a 25 yard target to see if my practice on the breathing/holding techniques and a properly adjusted, parallax-free scope can shoot a more promising group.  Maybe before this weekend I can fabricate some kind of bench rest for the purpose too.  I may also end up trying to adjust the trigger pull...

Did I leave anything out?  yes - will try to remember to add the chrono numbers from Pyramyd, my chrono numbers (taken with a cell phone app), and a pic of the above mentioned 10 yd target if I figure out how to upload.

Hope this was at least somewhat entertaining or informative.  If you are new to the airgun scene my novice opinion is that on a low budget, this particular rifle is a good basic starter ONLY if you are both patient to learn how to hold/shoot a springer, can afford to replace the scope that comes with it, and you must be willing to do some research/reading about it on-line to know if you got one with QC issues.  On the minus side, I suspect there are more refined (read potentially less needy) springers/gas-ram alternatives on the remanufactured market in the same price range.

Anybody wanna drop by and show us how to shoot it this weekend please PM me :-)

Methuselah (old fart in Huntsville, Alabama)

[mcoulter]

Thanks for sharing your experience.  It's fairly similar to mine with Hatsan's 135 (.22).  I feel this rifle has such potential...  It's just a fair amount of work to get there.  And no, I am NOT there yet either!

I did shoot over a chrony quite a bit and so far I am very impressed with how consistent the powerplant is (I have a spring-version).  It probably smoked for 200+ rounds before that seemed to dissipate.  Now it's shooting a very consistent 888 fps with jsb 18s. 

Accuracy is a work-in-progress.  This rifle will clearly take some skill to shoot well.  And while I've been able to get GREAT results with my 12 fpe rws34, this is a different beast.  The weight of the trigger and stock length will also need attention if I keep her long-term.

I guess these hastans truly are diamonds in the rough!

[Ken T]

I have a 125 Sniper and a 150 both in .25 cal..Both are best with JSB King and H&N FTT.I use a very firm hold on both and get excellent accuracy.

[DeputyFife]

My 125th .22 has broken in to a pretty accurate gun if I do my part.  I have the spring version and it smoothed out overtime with a few minor modifications. I can get nickel groups at 30 yards with my hand rested on the bag. It does have a  bit of  barrel droop and the plastic stock could  be a little beefier (filled it with foam) but it balances well with the thumbhole. I had trouble getting consistency until a ran about a thousand pellets through it. I decided to tear it down one day and found a bad piston seal which accounted for the inconsistency. Compared to my other guns it feels like a howitzer. If I was to step up to a magnum springer in .25 I would buy another hatsan.

[Methuselah]

My 125th .22 has broken in to a pretty accurate gun if I do my part.  I have the spring version and it smoothed out overtime with a few minor modifications. I can get nickel groups at 30 yards with my hand rested on the bag. It does have a  bit of  barrel droop and the plastic stock could  be a little beefier (filled it with foam) but it balances well with the thumbhole. I had trouble getting consistency until a ran about a thousand pellets through it. I decided to tear it down one day and found a bad piston seal which accounted for the inconsistency. Compared to my other guns it feels like a howitzer. If I was to step up to a magnum springer in .25 I would buy another hatsan.

It would take a long time for us to put that many rounds through this guy to see if it was going to improve, but I do doubt the issue is seals.  Chrono before I shot that last 10 yard group was

712
703
702
703
696

with 25.39 grain Exact Diablo Kings.

I've started making a rest, hopefully this weekend we'll get to shoot it and see if that helps.

[eiyk]

In my experience, bad grouping with the heavy Hatsans are in 95% of the cases a shooter problem.
My Hatsan 125.25  groups very well. Even with open sights, nice ragged hole at 19m. Right from the box, new.
Its easy to shoot too.
Prefers JSBs

[DeputyFife]

   The other issue could be that .25 has a rougher shot cycle than the.22 , at least thats what I've read on this site. When I got the nerve to tear mine apart I noticed the spring was wearing into the plastic base on the spring guide unevenly. I added a couple of steel washers to the bottom of the stem and ground the spring ends flat with a dremel. I also coated the spring with lucas assembly lube which will run, but I didn't have molly tar. I guess this cheap fix detuned the rifle a bit and it made the shot cycle calmer (no more twang) to where it wasn't too hold sensitive anymore. Of course, I did all this because the warranty was up anyway. Mine prefers to be held tight to the shoulder, artillery hold at the balance point midway. It came from pa with a 4x32 optima, never did send it back for the 3-9x32. Used a hawk 4-12x50 but it made the thing too heavy to shoot offhand so I stuck the optima back on it. The first fustrating couple of months after I got it I tried jsb's, cphp, and hnn's but I couldn't get a consistent groups at all. Almost gave up on it too!

[Pappywith4]

My 125 vortex sniper was very accurate out to 65 yds shooting off sticks ! But after a couple thousand rounds the vortex pressure now and it started shooting all over the place! I even changed my seal on the piston again and it shot the same!
I sent the piston off to a friend and he is going to put 145 bar in it! We tried 135 and it still was shooting 30 ftps slower than it was!
On every can of pellets I get in I take outside and do a 5 shot group and average the speed if they are all over the place I shoot a ten shot group . I then take the average speed of that tin and write on it with a magic marker and print of he new trajectory chart out to 70 yds to take with my in the field or just outside to target practice and the tin I was using had 868 on it before it went bonkers! My friend said  the set screw was loose so he tightened I! I am putting it back in the mail Monday
to have him bring it to 145 bar, so I will see where it brings me!    pappywith4

[eiyk]

Dont feel the .25 has a rude shotcycle. Its far nicer to shoot than for instance a Diana 350. Its quite a civilised magnum imo.

[Methuselah]

   The other issue could be that .25 has a rougher shot cycle than the.22 , at least thats what I've read on this site. When I got the nerve to tear mine apart I noticed the spring was wearing into the plastic base on the spring guide unevenly. I added a couple of steel washers to the bottom of the stem and ground the spring ends flat with a dremel. I also coated the spring with lucas assembly lube which will run, but I didn't have molly tar. I guess this cheap fix detuned the rifle a bit and it made the shot cycle calmer (no more twang) to where it wasn't too hold sensitive anymore. Of course, I did all this because the warranty was up anyway. Mine prefers to be held tight to the shoulder, artillery hold at the balance point midway. It came from pa with a 4x32 optima, never did send it back for the 3-9x32. Used a hawk 4-12x50 but it made the thing too heavy to shoot offhand so I stuck the optima back on it. The first fustrating couple of months after I got it I tried jsb's, cphp, and hnn's but I couldn't get a consistent groups at all. Almost gave up on it too!

It did somewhat better this afternoon - took an hour to finish up some woodwork on the shooting rest and put some 1/2" stick-on weatherstrip foam for cushioning.  Got a nickel sized cntr-to-cntr grouping at 35 yards.

Funny thing that the crow magnums did better at 10 yards, but much worse at 35 yards.

We're gonna order a sandbag type rest setup and when I have the time and get up the nerve I will have to play around with the trigger pull adjustments.  It is also still smoking a little when first firing so I may have put the scope on too soon...

Thanks everyone!

[AudiS4]

Well ts, to be fare, if you only got 200 pellets you canīt really blame Pyramid Air for it. 30 days is plenty, to get first of all 400-500 pellets, to get the gun settled in, and then test accuracy. Just because you donīt wan`t to spend the proper time, isnīt Pyramids fault. 

Accuracy comes with a hole lot of practice with Magnums, and that shouldnīt even come as a surprise, since you clearly made research before you bought the gun.

A magnum will be accurate if you do your part, and search for the right pellet.