Spring Lubrication Oil vs Grease and Lube Intervals.

[jfrich]

I hope it hasn't been answered already.

I have a questions as to which is the correct lube for Main Springs in modern spring piston airguns. I have seen both Oil and Tar/Grease being used is either appropriate or does it go on a gun by gun basis?

I have also seen that some recommend that the Spring should be lubed regularly, and others that it should be done infrequently. Is this also a gun by gun case or just differing opinions?

Hopefully these questions won't come across as ignorant. As they say the only stupid question is the one not asked.

jfrich:
   

[OleTomCat]

These questions have been asked and answered repeatedly but we still answer them each time....

First oil is a big NO NO, unless it is PTFE oil that will not combust.  The spring does not need to be lubricated, tar is used to dampen the spring noise during the shot cycle, a good tight fitting spring guide does just as good of a job.  The thing that needs to be lubed is the piston seal, I personally prefer Ultimox 226 type lubes that can not detonate, others prefer the tried and true MolyPaste but it is Moly powder in mineral oil which will detonate.

[nced]

I hope it hasn't been answered already.

I have a questions as to which is the correct lube for Main Springs in modern spring piston airguns. I have seen both Oil and Tar/Grease being used is either appropriate or does it go on a gun by gun basis?

I have also seen that some recommend that the Spring should be lubed regularly, and others that it should be done infrequently. Is this also a gun by gun case or just differing opinions?

Hopefully these questions won't come across as ignorant. As they say the only stupid question is the one not asked.

jfrich:
   

LOL.....this should provoke some entertaining discussions!

Decades ago to recently I always lubed my springs with "heavy tar" (bought from Jim Maccari). The ONLY purpose of the tar was to break the metal to metal contact between the spring OD and the piston ID. Since I've always fitted my springs with tight fitting home turned Delrin spring guides I never needed to use copious amounts of "tar" in an attempt to kill twang. I lubed my springs this way for a couple decades and once LIGHTLY lubed (basically just painted the spring black) I didn't relube for the life of the spring. Here's a pic of a good after market spring that broke in my .177 R9 a while back after a few years (and a couple 10s of thousands of shots).......

If you look carefully you'll see where the outside of some coils were polished by rubbing the inside of the R9 piston. It's this rubbing that the molly bearing "tar" is breaking the metal to metal contact.

For the last couple seasons I've been using the high tech EXPENSIVE (compared to "tar") Dupont Krytox or the international version, Ultimox with complete satisfaction. One issue I've had with "tar" and "molly paste" (in addition to being "staining black") is that they are mineral oil based and mineral oil will diesel under pressure if it gets in front of the piston seal. The krytox/Ultimox on the other hand is inert and won't diesel, plus it's a nice clean white color! 

Anywhoo.....there are dozens of different lubes and means of application being used and it does seem that many of them work well, but I have my preferences as do many others!

[jfrich]

Thanks for the answers OleTomCat and nced. Just from a basic web search you get quite a few varying lubricants and intervals. Discussion is always good unless it's flaming and fighting over who is right and who is wrong. I have grease coming out of my new Gamo which prompted my questions as I have a feeling it's overkill from the factory. I also so think a better spring might be in-order in the future.

jfrich:

[Paul68]

Moly paste for metal to metal, tar for the spring. occasionally use a moly/oil mix for trigger assemblies. No issues with diesling or detonation at all when done properly. After one lubing using these, nothing more is really needed for a long long time. I haven't added any lube to any of my guns after a tune with moly and tar, and this is after thousands of shots. Even barrel pivot joints lubed with moly show no need for further attention. The GTA library has a lube guide put together by one of the best in the business. Follow it and you wont go wrong.

 

[Paul68]

I hope it hasn't been answered already.

I have a questions as to which is the correct lube for Main Springs in modern spring piston airguns. I have seen both Oil and Tar/Grease being used is either appropriate or does it go on a gun by gun basis?

I have also seen that some recommend that the Spring should be lubed regularly, and others that it should be done infrequently. Is this also a gun by gun case or just differing opinions?

Hopefully these questions won't come across as ignorant. As they say the only stupid question is the one not asked.

jfrich:
   

LOL.....this should provoke some entertaining discussions!

Decades ago to recently I always lubed my springs with "heavy tar" (bought from Jim Maccari). The ONLY purpose of the tar was to break the metal to metal contact between the spring OD and the piston ID. Since I've always fitted my springs with tight fitting home turned Delrin spring guides I never needed to use copious amounts of "tar" in an attempt to kill twang. I lubed my springs this way for a couple decades and once LIGHTLY lubed (basically just painted the spring black) I didn't relube for the life of the spring. Here's a pic of a good after market spring that broke in my .177 R9 a while back after a few years (and a couple 10s of thousands of shots).......

If you look carefully you'll see where the outside of some coils were polished by rubbing the inside of the R9 piston. It's this rubbing that the molly bearing "tar" is breaking the metal to metal contact.

For the last couple seasons I've been using the high tech EXPENSIVE (compared to "tar") Dupont Krytox or the international version, Ultimox with complete satisfaction. One issue I've had with "tar" and "molly paste" (in addition to being "staining black") is that they are mineral oil based and mineral oil will diesel under pressure if it gets in front of the piston seal. The krytox/Ultimox on the other hand is inert and won't diesel, plus it's a nice clean white color! 

Anywhoo.....there are dozens of different lubes and means of application being used and it does seem that many of them work well, but I have my preferences as do many others!

The purpose of tar is not to break spring contact with the cylinder. It is to HELP dampen spring harmonics. The tar acts as a shock absorber, absorbing the spring vibration that occurs with loose fitting guides and springs with too little preload. Imagine taking a stick and swinging it through the air. The stick moves easily and freely. Now swing it through water, and it becomes harder to move. Now try moving it through heavy oil and it becomes even harder to swing. Same principle for heavy tar on a spring.  The heavy tar from ARH as far as I know is not moly based. If you rely on tar to actually remove twang, you are applying it incorrectly and addressing the problem incorrectly. Tar is only a final step after smoothing, lubing and tuning to help provide the smoothest cycle possible.

[nced]

I disagree completely! Using enough "tar" to dampen twang will also make the poi very "temperature sensitive" if the shooting day starts with snow flurries and then rises to the 60s. Been there, done that at an early spring field target match in Virginia when both my brother and I experienced a 1" poi shift with our R9s at only 20 yards toward the end of the match.

"Heavy Tar" WILL change viscosity with temperature shifts simply because it's base is mineral oil thickened with molly powder with perhaps a few other additives like graphite.

Molly powder is a great high pressure metal to metal lube that does a GOOD job of minimizing wear on sliding surfaces like spring coils inside a piston after the spring takes a kink and starts rubbing the piston liner which is the ONLY reason I used the stuff. The purpose of "fitted guides" is to kill twang/vibration and I found that even IF there was enough "tar" slopped on the spring to kill twang, the twang will return after a while. LOL.....another "property" of molly lubes like "tar and paste" is the fact that they get real sticky with age as the carrier evaporates. I've had to reconstitute molly paste after using it and then leaving the closed container sitting on a shelf for a year or so since I don't tar springs very often, and when I do I use only enough to "color the coils black". As a side note, if your molly paste gets gummy, a bit of mineral oil mixed in will restore the consistency.

For the last couple seasons I've been using only Krytox or Ultimox for ALL internal lubing of my R9 and I can tell you that they WON'T kill twang, but then I don't need some goop to detwang my springers!

Anywhoo.........we'll have to simply agree to disagree as to the USEFUL PROPERTIES of "tar" my friend......no harm/no foul! 

[MikeSSS]

It is time to decide which to get or to get some of each.

Thanks,

Mike S

[Paul68]

I disagree completely! Using enough "tar" to dampen twang will also make the poi very "temperature sensitive" if the shooting day starts with snow flurries and then rises to the 60s. Been there, done that at an early spring field target match in Virginia when both my brother and I experienced a 1" poi shift with our R9s at only 20 yards toward the end of the match.

"Heavy Tar" WILL change viscosity with temperature shifts simply because it's base is mineral oil thickened with molly powder with perhaps a few other additives like graphite.

Molly powder is a great high pressure metal to metal lube that does a GOOD job of minimizing wear on sliding surfaces like spring coils inside a piston after the spring takes a kink and starts rubbing the piston liner which is the ONLY reason I used the stuff. The purpose of "fitted guides" is to kill twang/vibration and I found that even IF there was enough "tar" slopped on the spring to kill twang, the twang will return after a while. LOL.....another "property" of molly lubes like "tar and paste" is the fact that they get real sticky with age as the carrier evaporates. I've had to reconstitute molly paste after using it and then leaving the closed container sitting on a shelf for a year or so since I don't tar springs very often, and when I do I use only enough to "color the coils black". As a side note, if your molly paste gets gummy, a bit of mineral oil mixed in will restore the consistency.

For the last couple seasons I've been using only Krytox or Ultimox for ALL internal lubing of my R9 and I can tell you that they WON'T kill twang, but then I don't need some goop to detwang my springers!

Anywhoo.........we'll have to simply agree to disagree as to the USEFUL PROPERTIES of "tar" my friend......no harm/no foul! 

Agreed. However, as I said in my post, if you are relying on tar to kill twang, you are using it wrong. You kill twang by smoothing and fitting parts correctly. Tar is just a final step to provide max smoothness. I too use tar, and I too have tested with and without, and found no appreciable effect on POI with tar or without, and at different temps, as long as the tar is applied correctly. Gobs of tar loaded on the spring? Yes, it's going to cause problems. Tar lightly coated on the spring just enough to cause light stringing? Not so much at all.   

 At any rate, I have a small tub of moly that is going on three years old, and it is the same exact consistency as when I first opened it. Rifles lubed with it 2 years ago don't show any of this drying out either. Moly too is meant to be used very sparingly. Once used and distributed through the rifle through shot cycling, it will continue to provide lubrication regardless of how much of the carrier evaporates, and the amount is so small, any thickening just isn't going to make much if any difference at all. It could turn to powder, but as long as it is coating everything, which it will be, it will continue to provide the same lubrication. Perhaps your moly is or was a poor product?

It comes down to what is effective, and what is possible according to skill levels, and what is overkill really. For the average person who finds custom guide and parts making beyond their capabilities, moly and tar is the most practical route to a good lube tune. Myself, even with custom made guides I usually use very light tar since it simply provides the smoothest spring performance possible.

 Since moly and tar provides years of excellent service, with no appreciable wear to metal parts treated in an airgun, going with the most expensive and scientifically advanced lube in the world is IMO really pointless. Does you car run great with 87 octane? Then why pay for 104 octane racing fuel? It wont go any faster, it wont last any longer, it wont get any better mileage, so what's the point? 

Don't want dieseling? Apply lubes correctly. Don't want accuracy affected negatively? Apply lubes correctly. Want great performance without excessive expenditure, then don't waste money paying for something that costs 10 times as much yet provides no appreciable difference in performance. Will most airgunners notice the 0.009% improvement in shot consistency you MIGHT get from using the slipperiest substance known to man? Not likely.
 

For me its simply a matter of realizing its likely that tried and proven moly and tar will be more than adequate for the job.   

[nced]

It is time to decide which to get or to get some of each.

Thanks,

Mike S

Currently I'm using Ultimox 226 that looks like this..........

Ultimox 226 Perfluoropolyether Pfpe PTFE Grease 40 GM Auto O2 Krytox 205 206 226 | eBay

By the way, when I first tried Krytox GPL 205 I bought a 1/2 oz tube just to try. With this 1/2 oz I lubed EVERY moving part of my R9 including piston, piston seal, cocking shoe & slot, barrel pivot bolt, barrel pivot shims, barrel detents and safety button. I was a bit lavish with the application in not taking special care to apply precisely to keep it from getting pushed in front of the piston seal like I NEED to do with molly lubes. There was no dieseling, the gun functioned perfectly, the barrel batch detent remained "smooth sliding" longer than when I used molly paste......I liked the stuff! After the complete "one lube fits all" test on my R9 this is how much of the 1/2" tube I had left over.........


I later found that the international version of Krytox 205 called Ultimox 226 was cheaper plus it had an extra wear/corrosion additive so I switched to the Ultimox 226. Anywhoo......I kinda like the "non-dieseling one lube fits all" approach and I've been using the Ultimox for a couple seasons.

I was wondering how the plain ole Krytox GPL 205 would resist corrosion since the Ultimox has an extra additive so I did a Krytox test. I took two bare steel nails and degreased both with brake cleaner, then made a solution of salt water with a HIGH concentration of salt. I soaked some paper towel with the salt solution and wrapped both degreased nails like this.........

and let it sit for a couple days.

Here is the result.........

Since I don't NORMALLY soak my R9 parts in salt water for a couple days I personally feel that even the plain ole Krytox GPL 205 is more than adequate for lubing my R9 internals should I prefer to do so!

P.S.  The "tried and true" molly paste and tar has been successfully used for decades and as long as there is PROPER application (don't use enough to kill twang) it will serve you well! Takes your pick, "tried and true" or some new fangled space lube designed for satellites functioning in the extremes of space!     

[MikeSSS]

My R9 is staying right here on Earth, it took too long to get.

At present I've got some Honda moly but clean lube is very appealing.

Best wishes,

Mike

[White Eagle]

Well, I was having a POI shifting issue, and I had ruled out everything but a bad scope.  So, reading nced's comments, I thought maybe the tar is the problem, since we have had a wide swing in temperatures here lately.  So, I took my 34 apart, cleaned out the tar, and relubed the spring with Ultimox 226.  Side note:  when I installed a JM spring and seal about 4000 pellets ago, I used the Ultimox to lube everything except the spring.  Upon opening the action, I found that the seal looked absolutely new, and the only signs of wear were on the spring that had been tarred.  The wear was minimal, with just a few coils showing shiny spots.  Anyway, I put the rifle back together and took her out to shoot.  The first thing I noticed was that if anything, the rifle was even quieter that it was with the tar.  I mean, absolutely NO vibration.  That kinda surprised me.  The next thing I noticed was that the groups were even tighter than before.  Could this be due to reducing the spring drag to a very consistent level, and hence, more consistent velocities?  When the weather here clears up, I'll get the chrono out and check it out.  The rifle has always been very accurate, but the difference was noticeable.  The only downside is that I now know that the scope is bad, and it will be going back to BSA.  Putting a different scope on the rifle confirmed this.  Anyway, once again, a big "THANK YOU!" to Ed for turning me on to the Ultimox.  I am very happy with the results.

[nced]

Well, I was having a POI shifting issue, and I had ruled out everything but a bad scope.  So, reading nced's comments, I thought maybe the tar is the problem, since we have had a wide swing in temperatures here lately.  So, I took my 34 apart, cleaned out the tar, and relubed the spring with Ultimox 226.  Side note:  when I installed a JM spring and seal about 4000 pellets ago, I used the Ultimox to lube everything except the spring.  Upon opening the action, I found that the seal looked absolutely new, and the only signs of wear were on the spring that had been tarred.  The wear was minimal, with just a few coils showing shiny spots.  Anyway, I put the rifle back together and took her out to shoot.  The first thing I noticed was that if anything, the rifle was even quieter that it was with the tar.  I mean, absolutely NO vibration.  That kinda surprised me.  The next thing I noticed was that the groups were even tighter than before.  Could this be due to reducing the spring drag to a very consistent level, and hence, more consistent velocities?  When the weather here clears up, I'll get the chrono out and check it out.  The rifle has always been very accurate, but the difference was noticeable.  The only downside is that I now know that the scope is bad, and it will be going back to BSA.  Putting a different scope on the rifle confirmed this.  Anyway, once again, a big "THANK YOU!" to Ed for turning me on to the Ultimox.  I am very happy with the results.

with a "new style R9 piston seal" I left the home tuned .177 R9 in my unheated sunroom over night on Jan 29, 2014 and the temp dropped to 14 degrees F. By 9:02 am when I had enough light to chrony the temp had risen to 16 degrees F and the CPLs flew over the chrony at 916-921fps. On Saturday Feb 1st, 2014 I did the same thing however by 10:32 the temp was 37 degrees F and 9 shots ranged from 905-910 fps and one shot gave a 914fps velocity. I was a bit surprised that  the colder temp gave a bit higher velocity (denser air being heated with the shot perhaps) but the velocities were very consistent. Well.....consistent enough to not be concerned because I DON'T normally shoot my R9 in 16 degree weather, and even very seldom in 37 degree weather. By the way, I also tested the gun at "room temp" at 62 degrees and found the velocity to be similar.

So far the Ultimox has worked well! After cutting a tight spring guide for my aftermarket spring used in my R9 I lubed it LIGHTLY with "heavy tar" and noticed that when I pushed the spring on the tight guide it would kinda "grab,release,grab,release" as the spring was pushed home. I later removed the Delrin guide from the spring, completely degreased both guide and spring, then reassembled the spring and guide after lubing with the Ultimox.........the result, the spring smoothly slid on the tight guide without "grabbing and releasing". Also, I noticed that the Ultimox seemed to keep the R9 spring loaded barrel detent chisel operating smoothly for a longer period of time than when lubed with "tar".

Anywhoo......I have experienced "molly paste" getting goopy and sticky after some of the mineral oil carrier "out gassed", but one one of the Dupont "sales pitches" is that the Krytox (therefore Ultimox) outgasses very little.
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/krytox_gpl_106_206_216_226_K20067.pdf
http://www.microlubrol.com/krytoxgpl205lubricantgrease-2oz57gmtube-4-3-3-1-1.aspx

[Paul68]

Something to keep in mind.

Dupont produces Krytox versions with molybendum added to improve high load characteristics. This suggested to me that Krytox without it has inferior protection against high load stresses, and indeed when looking over NASA's "SPACE VEHICLE DESIGN CRITERIA; LUBRICATION, FRICTION, AND WEAR" publication as a result of this suspicion, they show moly having better high load lubricity characteristics, lower friction coefficient, and better high temp properties retention. They do show Krytox less susceptible to outgassing at the low pressures encountered in a vacuum and producing the second highest lubricity in high load applications, which is what makes it attractive for aerospace applications.

Of course, moly used in AG's typically has a petroleum based carrier which is where the issues with detonation come from, but since proper application of moly and proper preparation of the cylinder can for all intents reduce or eliminate this, it's not a big issue.

The takeway for me is that Krytox is superior only in that it is less volatile in low atmospheric pressures (less outgassing), and that high moly content based lubricants actually provide better protection against overall wear in high load applications as well as better friction reduction. Which to me does not justify the exorbitant cost of Krytox at all.

[HYspd]

ya left out the part about how the carrier medias for moly go nuts at the extreme low temps in space..

and change wildly along with the drastic temp swings from sun lit to shadow dark

or even as seen last week in SC...80F at 3pm followed 18  hours later by 35F the next morning at 9am...

[Paul68]

Well, no one is really telling exactly what kind of base is being used in the moly and tar greases, so we can only guess. I think the big problem with these assumptions about grease is that we somehow assume because it is a semi solid or seems similar to a liquid, that grease must behave the same as common liquids like water when exposed to temperature changes as well. That's not the case at all.

Most typical grease bases are a type of synthetic or mineral oil, neither of which shows a lot of viscosity change except at very low or high temperatures -0 +120 F. If you doubt this, get some quality mineral oil and put a small bowl of it in the freezer for a couple hours, then see just how much thicker it has gotten. These bases form the main component of grease to which everything else is added. 

Then there is the thickener that is added, which is often lithium or aluminum as well as sodium, which also don't show great consistency change until significant temperature changes. Then of course there are other additives included which increase the resistance of these oils to viscosity changes due to temperature extremes. And finally the additives which include those that enhance the grease properties we are looking for, which includes moly, graphite and other wear inhibitors.

To give a very general idea, these oil bases and thickeners can be found in general purpose as well as automotive wheel and bearing type greases which must provide a minimum level of performance across a wide range of temperatures. The mineral oil bases used in these greases depending on their grade often have a pour point of 0.F, which means they do not become too thick to easily flow until reaching that temperature. Synthetic base oils can go even lower to -30.F and less. Again, we don't know exactly which kind of base and thickener is being used in the Moly greases intended for airguns, but its probably safe to expect them to be at least as effective as typical automotive grade grease components.

Meaning, I seriously doubt these common grease bases would show significant change in consistency from 70.F to even 20.F. If they were that sensitive to moderate temperature changes, they wouldn't make a very good lube for anything. On top of that, the amount used in Ag's is so small, there just isn't enough grease mass to cause a notable increase or decrease in frictional forces according to temperature changes. Again, if you somehow did experience such changes according to temperature, my first suggestion would again be that it is being applied incorrectly, meaning WAYYY too much is being applied.

 

[nced]

Something to keep in mind.

Dupont produces Krytox versions with molybendum added to improve high load characteristics. This suggested to me that Krytox without it has inferior protection against high load stresses, and indeed when looking over NASA's "SPACE VEHICLE DESIGN CRITERIA; LUBRICATION, FRICTION, AND WEAR" publication as a result of this suspicion, they show moly having better high load lubricity characteristics, lower friction coefficient, and better high temp properties retention. They do show Krytox less susceptible to outgassing at the low pressures encountered in a vacuum and producing the second highest lubricity in high load applications, which is what makes it attractive for aerospace applications.

Of course, moly used in AG's typically has a petroleum based carrier which is where the issues with detonation come from, but since proper application of moly and proper preparation of the cylinder can for all intents reduce or eliminate this, it's not a big issue.

The takeway for me is that Krytox is superior only in that it is less volatile in low atmospheric pressures (less outgassing), and that high moly content based lubricants actually provide better protection against overall wear in high load applications as well as better friction reduction. Which to me does not justify the exorbitant cost of Krytox at all.

A couple comments............
The Dupont version of Krytox with molly contains 5% molly. Actually, I don't know where you'll find EXTREME load stresses in a R9. For decades HW has been shipping their HW springers with some type of tan grease that I KNOW will dry out and get "cakey" after a few years. The Ultimox 226 also contains a wear and corrosion inhibitor and it's labeled "extreme pressure grease".........

http://www.microlubrol.com/krytoxgpl205lubricantgrease-2oz57gmtube-4-3-3-1-1.aspx

Here are a couple pics of pistons and seals with factory "tan grease" slathered on them.......
HW97 piston.........

R9 piston........


I still have almost a pound of 5 micron molly powder I bought a while back to experiment with making my own lube by thickening it with 100% silicone oil. LOL......in the testing plain ole powdered graphite (like you use for lubing locks) worked better for lubing my R9 internals.......as determined by the "slickness of cocking".
So far the Ultimox 226 is doing it's job well as did the Krytox GPL 205 experimented with before it. LOL.....I even tested Krytox GPL 105 OIL for all internal lubing and it performed well,  surprisingly even on the R9 barrel latching detent chisel. 

So far I see no reason to go back to the diesel prone petroleum based lubes of the past that DO get thicker from outgassing over time.......but I will "keep an open mind" if my lubing methods don't prove out in the "long term"! 

Anywhoo........some RWS piston guns were shipped with almost dry pistons, soooooo it seems that most any "grease" will do the job for a while and perhaps this whole discussion is of little import as long as the lubing is done properly (a must for molly lubes) and then re-lubed as needed! I also realize that satisfactory lube performance is really in the eyes of the beholder just like the need for bore cleaning!

[EMrider]

I hope it hasn't been answered already.

I have a questions as to which is the correct lube for Main Springs in modern spring piston airguns. I have seen both Oil and Tar/Grease being used is either appropriate or does it go on a gun by gun basis?

I have also seen that some recommend that the Spring should be lubed regularly, and others that it should be done infrequently. Is this also a gun by gun case or just differing opinions?

Hopefully these questions won't come across as ignorant. As they say the only stupid question is the one not asked.

jfrich:
   

Not a lube expert, but here is what has worked well for my springers.

Light coat of JM moly on the edge of the piston seal, spring and critical points of metal on metal on contact.

A vortek or JM spring and seal.

This combination is good for 25,000-30,000 shots with zero maintenance, maybe more.

I've read about well prepped springers that have been used maintenance free for more than 20 years.

Not bad for 40+ year old technology!

R

[jfrich]

A big thank you to all who have given their advice and/or opinions in what appears will be an ongoing arena of battle and debate. I now understand a little bit better the dynamics that must be taken into account when selecting lubrication materials and methods for each application, and it's not as simple as just "hey oil & grease are just that oil & grease so whatever you have close at hand will do".

GTA is an awesome resource, because of the people who make it work.

jfrich:

[nced]

I hope it hasn't been answered already.

I have a questions as to which is the correct lube for Main Springs in modern spring piston airguns. I have seen both Oil and Tar/Grease being used is either appropriate or does it go on a gun by gun basis?

I have also seen that some recommend that the Spring should be lubed regularly, and others that it should be done infrequently. Is this also a gun by gun case or just differing opinions?

Hopefully these questions won't come across as ignorant. As they say the only stupid question is the one not asked.

jfrich:
   

Not a lube expert, but here is what has worked well for my springers.

Light coat of JM moly on the edge of the piston seal, spring and critical points of metal on metal on contact.

A vortek or JM spring and seal.

This combination is good for 25,000-30,000 shots with zero maintenance, maybe more.

I've read about well prepped springers that have been used maintenance free for more than 20 years.

Not bad for 40+ year old technology!

R

Yep.....that's what I used for DECADES and it did work well, but I found that the "Ultimox stuff" didn't diesel so it wasn't critical to keep it off the front of the piston seal, and wasn't black staining stuff. I guess the term  "25,000-30,000 shots with zero maintenance". This is similar to a Yugo being considered "maintenance free" for years if the main criteria were that the engine turned over and the wheels went around since I don't know the acceptable deviation  tolerance of the shooter.

I shoot about a 1250 count box of CPLs per month (about 10,000 per year) so I've found that the "limiting factor" concerning piston gun reliability is spring and piston seal life, and as such my HW springers got "broken down" every couple years REGARDLESS of the lube regimen. Here are a couple pics of FACTORY piston seals that I've removed from MY .177 R9s when I was using factory piston seals and lubed as you've described..........


ONE of the reason I used home turned oring sealed piston caps for YEARS was the lack of any erosion at the transfer port area of the piston seal like those shown in the pic. Here is a pic of an oring sealed piston cap I pulled for inspection after a shooting a few 1250 count boxes of CPLs next to a new "old style" R9 piston seal on the left.........

The new style R9 piston seal has a rather "fat" parachute edge with reduced waist and it does FUNCTION better for me than the old style and I'm HOPING that the material used is also improved to the point that erosion at the transfer port is minimal with use!  Here is a pic of the "new style" HW95 piston seal I'm currently using.......


Anywhoo......bottom line is the amount of usage ANY lubing procedure has to endure! If the gun owner only shoots a couple thousand shots per year I contend that ANY "airgun grease/oil" lube is sufficient  as long as the shot consistency is agreeable to the shooter!