Benjamin Trail .22 all weather..........



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Offline kenfyoozed

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Benjamin Trail .22 all weather..........
« on: October 28, 2013, 02:35:46 PM »
As the title states I have a Benjamin trail .22 all weather. Havinga real hard time sighting this rifle in. I used a bsa boresighter, and a laser boresighter, and i can not get it to dial in. The closest I can get is the first mil dot below the center point. In my reading i guess this may be  barrel droop? Chated with a few nice members in the chat area. They gave me good tips about shiming the scope,new triggerand the GTA library. This scope is the one that came with the rifle. Any other thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 12:55:59 AM by amb5500c »
Benjamin Trail NP .22 All Weather
Center Point 3-9 x 40

Offline robtmc

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2013, 05:53:56 PM »
From my limited experience with an NP and trying to set up the scope with a laser boresighter: waste of time. 

The NP jumps around fiercely, so where the barrel is pointing at rest is most assuredly not where it will be pointing when the pellet leaves the barrel.  I think I was hitting some 6" above where the laser was sighted.

As far as hitting low, if your number of shots is still low, good chance the shots will start coming up as the breech mates with the receiver and the seal takes a set.  Maybe do not bother with trying for precise zero of the scope and just practice for group size while pumping a tin or two of pellets through.  You will learn a lot about the gun and your shooting without frustrating yourself chasing shots around the target.
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Offline Airgunner.Jay

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 06:02:20 PM »
  I could say u may be holding the rifle to hard. Artillery hold is an option. And then you should look at the scope. Make sure the welded part of the weavers mounts isnt crooked. The scope could also be the problem but I can't say for sure because of the detail. Also you made need to make scope shims....try getting soda cans...or better yet do this

 
Small | Large
 

 If none of these doest help...do this shoot at 10 yds instead of 20yds. Try to get a consistent hold and group there..once that is accomplished try going back to 15 yds and the 20yds. I know the most accurate pellet is the H&N FTT in .22 those shot the best in my test. Out shining the JSB's by .05" ctc at 25yds....let me know if you need anything else

Offline JR

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2013, 06:08:30 PM »
You didn't say how far you were shooting from? 10 ft? 50 yards?

I have a scope collimator and laser bore sighters the scope collimator is useless for a scope that is mounted way above the bore center, where it does work it's better than a laser sight. When the scope is to high the laser sight comes in, however all it does is get you close. I sight in on the laser at 25 ft that will get me on a sheet of 8x11 printer paper with a dot in the middle most of the time, then adjust from there.


I think one of the biggest mistakes people make sighting in a new air rifle is doing it from 15 ft or less. Most OEM cheapy scopes don't have the adjustment for the recital to go that low, and if it does adjust that much it will be off when you back up to 20 yards. 20 yards is 60 ft which is a long way from the 15 ft the gun was sighted in at. The other issue with this is the recital is at the extreme end of its travel or there is none left at all. If the gun has much recoil it can and will break the scope while the shooter is trying to figure out  where the gun is hitting. 


Get a 3ft x3ft piece of paper, cardboard, whatever, us a marker to put a quarter size dot in the center, try to center the crosshairs back where they should be and backup to 25-30 ft and soot 5 times and see where it's hitting and go from there.
  • Utah
Hatsan Vortex 125 Sniper 22 cal
Benjamin Trail XL   22/25 cal
RWS 94  117 cal
Webley Vulcan  177 cal
TF-99  177 cal
Benjamin Regal converted to a Trail  22/177 cal
Diana Model 5 pistol  177 cal

Offline Laz

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 08:55:15 PM »
What everyone said was helpful. But I personally would hate to shim my scopes. So I opted for a better scope which fixed my problem with droop right away. That plus copper pivot washers and more pellets through it. With the new scope, moly, deburr, new seals, copper pivot washers it really helps the droop, I have lots a room for adjustments on the scope, so no problem. Your Trail will come together. Could take the 'easier' route and shim, or just buy a better scope if possible, which will come with better rings too  8). BTW I have a Leapers 4-16x40mm True Hunter on my Trail NP .22 AW. Cool scope, cool gun!
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Offline Airgunner.Jay

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 09:11:08 PM »
What everyone said was helpful. But I personally would hate to shim my scopes. So I opted for a better scope which fixed my problem with droop right away. That plus copper pivot washers and more pellets through it. With the new scope, moly, deburr, new seals, copper pivot washers it really helps the droop, I have lots a room for adjustments on the scope, so no problem. Your Trail will come together. Could take the 'easier' route and shim, or just buy a better scope if possible, which will come with better rings too  8). BTW I have a Leapers 4-16x40mm True Hunter on my Trail NP .22 AW. Cool scope, cool gun!

  where would u put the copper pivot washers?

Offline kenfyoozed

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2013, 09:27:44 PM »
I first attempted to sight in at 50yards, and was getting &^^&. So i moved to 25yards and that was a bit better but still not where it should be. I saw there are adjustable scope mounts, but most seem to be for dovetail rails. The one weaver adjustable base that could work for has a 30mm rings. So i would need a 30mm-1" adapter....... so.. what to do?

I have about 100 rounds through it but ill keep at it and see how it comes together.

Any direction to where to find these ideas of tuning to be a better gun...will greatly be appreciated.
Benjamin Trail NP .22 All Weather
Center Point 3-9 x 40

Offline Laz

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2013, 09:37:00 PM »
To Airgun.Sniper, I unfortunately can't order the brass ones from Gene, he doesn't ship international, I'm in Canada. So I opted for the next best thing I think. I also don't have the machining skills to size a regular brass washer to fit  :( But found copper ones that do. Its where the stock nylon ones are, I don't know the proper terms, but where the break barrel pivots. You guys in the states can buy them pre-machinined from airguntoyz.com, up here you gotta size them yourself.
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Offline Laz

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2013, 09:47:36 PM »
Quote
I first attempted to sight in at 50yards
Quote
...I have about 100 rounds through...

I think you'll see better results at any range after atleast 500 pellets. For mine at least, the Crosman caution of atleast 100 pellets is a little too low for break in, NP or not. And sorry, I've never seen a 30mm to 1 inch adapter before. Try the brass washers from Gene, put a cheap 500 tin through it to break it in, I also put in new breach seal, piston seal, moly'd, sanded compression tube and piston, cocking lever arm and receiver.
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Offline Wolfe28

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2013, 11:42:28 PM »
Quote
I think you'll see better results at any range after atleast 500 pellets. For mine at least, the Crosman caution of atleast 100 pellets is a little too low for break in, NP or not. And sorry, I've never seen a 30mm to 1 inch adapter before. Try the brass washers from Gene, put a cheap 500 tin through it to break it in, I also put in new breach seal, piston seal, moly'd, sanded compression tube and piston, cocking lever arm and receiver.

Second.  I have the same rifle, and it didn't start to settle down until I got about 300 rounds down range, and I'm not expecting it to really settle down until I have a few hundred more down range.

D

Offline JR

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2013, 11:47:04 PM »
I guess my first question would be have you cleaned the barrel real good before shooting it? I mean real good not just putting a couple patches through it
  • Utah
Hatsan Vortex 125 Sniper 22 cal
Benjamin Trail XL   22/25 cal
RWS 94  117 cal
Webley Vulcan  177 cal
TF-99  177 cal
Benjamin Regal converted to a Trail  22/177 cal
Diana Model 5 pistol  177 cal

Offline Roadworthy

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2013, 03:21:19 AM »
For the washers, if you can find 8mm brass washers, they need no machining.  I have used 5/16" brass washers.  I put a couple on a 5/16" bolt and tighten a nut securely, then chuck the bolt in my drill press.  Spin the drill press and apply a flat file until the washers are the desired diameter.  Last time I started with bronze bearings - they're like washers but they are intended to be a bearing surface.

Cleaning the bore - most of the guys recommend Goo Gone on a patch pulled through breech to muzzle with weed whacker line or fishing line.  Follow it up with several dry patches.

If your gun absolutely won't group, it can be you, the gun, or your choice of pellets.  Some guns are very finicky regarding pellets.
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Offline Laz

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2013, 04:32:25 AM »
Sorry I have no tools that could do that to 5/16" washers. And if I can find 8mm brass washers, they'll fit right in like how the copper ones do? Thanks for the info! I'll try to find some ASAP. I have like next to none metal and machining knowledge, so this would help me out, and everyone recommends brass. I couldn't find it but the guy at Home Hardware told me copper might do the trick, softer than steel. How much softer? I don't know, but I assume anythings better than nylon for that task right?
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Offline kenfyoozed

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2013, 08:32:07 AM »
No I did not clean the bore. Ill add that to the top of my list to do. I saw a crossman(i think) air gun cleaning kit, is this something thats recommended? or just patches with a string?
Benjamin Trail NP .22 All Weather
Center Point 3-9 x 40

Offline Roadworthy

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2013, 12:58:46 PM »
I think copper is not recommended because it does compress - not as much as nylon, but more than brass or bronze.  When your barrel starts to get loose, just tighten it again.

As far as cleaning, no kit is needed.  The guys here mostly use fishing line or weed whacker line to pull a patch wetted with Goo Gone and followed by several dry patches.
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Offline JR

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2013, 08:19:07 PM »
My .02 on new barrel cleaning

I use a 1 piece carbon fiber or coated Dewey rods on all my air rifles and powder burners. Neither rod will damage any steel barrel even cheap junk steel, I really don't think they would hurt a brass barrel as long as the rod was remotely straight with the bore, gota use a little common sense. I do not and will not use any screw together cleaning rod on any barrel I care about and no one should use any rod that is bent in the least bit. It takes next to nothing for a bend in a rod for it to rub while inside of a .177/.17 barrel, a bare steel rod will damage the rifling. I don't know of any new gun/barrel I have got that was spotless including $500 match grade Shilen, Hart, or Douglas barrels. I have misc. tips, mops, jags that I use but all barrels get lapped at least a few patches with JB bore paste. A Parker Hale style jag works the best for keeping the patch stuck on the jag and not loosing it in a muzzle brake or a nylon brush with the patch over it. A .17 cal nylon brush with a patch over it fits good in a 22 cal. barrel The parker Hale style jags have knurling and are longer vs common jags that have a pin at the end to hold the patch and are smooth that only work to push the patch not pull it back. I have a older Dewey knurled jag set with pointed tips not pin/piercing tips that I have had for 15+ years, best jags ever made.

Break barrels are easy to clean just cock it put the safety on and clean the barrel or disconnect the cocking linkage break the barrel open and clean the barrel, put a piece of tape over the air port hole to keep stuff out of the chamber.. You can put a towel on a table to protect the table and gun and let the barrel hang over the side and clean it, put a bowl or whatever to catch any drips. you can secure the barrel to a table leg if you want just for safety. Use a nylon brush dipped in whatever solvent and run it 5-6 times up and down the barrel. Push a few clean patches through to clean what the brush broke loose, a few wet, a few clean until the patches look fairly clean, use a wet brush again if you need to. Then rub some JB bore paste into a patch, good and covered but not oozing either. Put the patch on a jag/nylon brush poke it in and start "scrubbing" it back and forth in short strokes (3"-4" strokes) and work your way to the muzzle, I do this 3-4 times or a few more. Or push it slowly towards the muzzle and when the drag lessens on the patch it's starting to poke out into the muzzle brake so pull it back until it pulls out the breach about a inch and push it back to the muzzle again, push and pull it back and forth again 6-10 times. Push a few dry patches, a few solvent patches to clean, a few more to dry until clean and the barrel should be good other than normal cleaning when needed in the future. JB bore paste is made from plant pulp, using it by hand won't harm a barrel, tooth paste is more aggressive, short of using power tools with it and trying to damage your barrel it's safe.

In my opinion any new barrel needs at least a few passes with a wet nylon brush to break all the junk loose. Follow up with some wet and dry patches until clean and dry. I scrubbed my new 177 Trail barrel I got  from Crosman the other day and it was filthy, was more or less nasty grease and rust. It would have taken a lot of patches and work to get it clean without using a brush and bore paste. Now that it is clean it shouldn't require more than a few patches once in a while.
  • Utah
Hatsan Vortex 125 Sniper 22 cal
Benjamin Trail XL   22/25 cal
RWS 94  117 cal
Webley Vulcan  177 cal
TF-99  177 cal
Benjamin Regal converted to a Trail  22/177 cal
Diana Model 5 pistol  177 cal

Offline kenfyoozed

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2013, 05:42:07 PM »
I bought some Burris Signature Zee rings and the posi-lign inserts. I ended up with -10 in the front and +20 in the rear to get me on target with a laser pointer at 25yards. Then I started taking shots. 3-4 at a time from a winchester rifle rest. This allowed me to get on target and take ME out of the equation as much as possible. The only contact with the rifle was my shooting hand. Used a light grip with a slow and steady pull. Shots are all over the place. I have about 250 rounds though it now. 4 different Benjamin hunting profiles all in the same weight. Nothing is grouping. One shot is high, one is low, one is wide, one is close.......

I'm having another shooter come over this evening and double checking the grouping or non-grouping.

This is really getting aggravating. I plan to call Crosman tomorrow if this doesnt work out and get this replaced. Right now i just want my moneyback. Id rather pay high prices for .22LR ammo and have the noise than this piece of garbage!!!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 12:56:45 AM by amb5500c »
Benjamin Trail NP .22 All Weather
Center Point 3-9 x 40

Offline JR

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2013, 07:44:32 PM »
I can be irritating when something doesn't work out like you planned, the gun may very well have some type of issue. It will be interesting to see how it does with someone else, I would find 2-3 people that have basic shooting skills try it.

My Trail shoots fairly well using the arm rest on a lawn chair as a shooting rest but as with most springers you have to find the happy spot. I have found the happy spot on mine is just in front of the Weaver rail. So the "N" or the "J" in Benjamin on the bottom of the stock is the place you rest it. I was shooting it yesterday at 50 yds so I had to readjust my scope for closer shooting this week so I shot about 15 pellets through it earlier today. After I got it moved to where I wanted it (1" high at 18 yds) I shot the remaining 7 pellets and left a ragged 50 cal. hole at 18 yds. hole. This was done with plain old Crossman HP's from Walmart that is shoots about like that all day long.


Maybe it's the scope, do you have another scope you could try?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 12:57:12 AM by amb5500c »
  • Utah
Hatsan Vortex 125 Sniper 22 cal
Benjamin Trail XL   22/25 cal
RWS 94  117 cal
Webley Vulcan  177 cal
TF-99  177 cal
Benjamin Regal converted to a Trail  22/177 cal
Diana Model 5 pistol  177 cal

Offline $ignmoney

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2013, 08:35:17 PM »
 kenfyoozed

 
Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.!

I have the same gun and problem. Im ready to throw in the towel on this one. I also used a laser bore sighter and I was off some. Im shooting 30 yrds. Some say its the trigger so I got a Charlie de tuna trigger, Yes it is better. Maybe its me so I got a Predator Shooting rest so it sits nice. All I do is squeeze the trigger. Started with walmart premiers, RWS Super dome 14 gr. , JSB Diablo 18.13 and 14 gr. ( I think). I use a sheet of paper with a red square in the center. I had a few flyers that almost missed it. Im all over the paper. Best I can do is 3-4" group. Im not happy with it. I spent 3 hours messing with it today. I have a 6-24 x 50 scope so at 30 yds. I see just about only the paper so its easy to hold it on the dot. I give up
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 12:57:49 AM by amb5500c »
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Offline kenfyoozed

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Re: Benjamin Trail .22 all weather.....
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2013, 08:42:57 PM »
I did just that. I remembered I had an extra scope, and fitted it using the same burris posi-lign inserts. After getting it sighted in and close enough for tonight i was  shooting less than 1" groups .5" from point of aim. So it seems my scope is damaged or at very least not working properly.

question: are nitro piston rifles as hard on scopes as springers?

$ignmoney= I did a through clean as well. Is that the scope supplied? My dad brought over his .177 trail xl and his wasnt grouping well either, same scope as mine. But after resighting it in, he was shooting the groups as mine was. We will see how long it will hold zero this time. So if you ahve another scope to try you may want to try that. Im not saying i love this gun yet, so the jusry is still out. But if it can be consistant as tonight then i may just keep it around.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 12:58:18 AM by amb5500c »
Benjamin Trail NP .22 All Weather
Center Point 3-9 x 40

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