SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!



Author Topic: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!  (Read 10455 times)

Offline GunnerAl

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« on: December 07, 2010, 01:03:12 AM »
Guys, I just bought an SAG (Shanghai Air Gun) AR1000 air rifle in .177.. I had been reading for a while now that many people like this unit and speak quite highly of them, then out of the blue, they appeared in the shops over here so I jumped in and bought one without even thinking twice about it. It cost me $175 new which is equal to about $120 US, give or take. I thought it was quite a bargain myself. I only bought it a few days ago and as yet, haven't had enough time to get out and test fire or sight it in. I threw on a Nikko Stirling 4-12x42mm Air King and it's all ready to go. Since I have owned it, naturally I went looking across the internet for reviews, well at least "more" reviews and found many different brand names this rifle is sold under, including - SAG, Industry Brand, Tech Force 89, Hammerli Titan, Beeman RS-1, Crosman and of course the parent air rifle, the Norica Marvic Gold. I was always going to buy a Marvic Gold but just recently when I decided to do just that, they disappeared, now replaced by newer (and some uglier, I have to say) models,, so it all seems to have come full circle in a strange sort of way for me. I got almost what I originally wanted for a fraction of the cost. I haven't really seen any bad points surfacing about the AR1000 and was wondering if any of you guys have had any experiences with them...

There's some stigma associated with Chinese made airguns but presonally I think there are also other brands which deserve more criticism and I cannot find any reason not to own this rifle, especially at the price I forked out on. I pulled the metal out of the woodwork yesterday to have a look-see and was quite impressed with the finish. It is reasonably well finished, not top quality, but certainly not rubbish. I own other air rifles which cost three times the price and have an average metalwork finish compared to the AR1000. The woodwork is really well done, again, not top quality, but VERY well finsihed and a good snug fit to the metalwork. The dark colour of the varnish or whatever finish it has, is nice and smooth and very evenly coated. The rubber buttpad fits exactly to the stock. All-in-all I like the rifle, and can't wait to get out and sight her in and maybe knock over a few pests on the same day...

Offline joek

  • Plinker
  • **
  • Posts: 166
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 01:29:07 AM »
"Hammerli Titan, Beeman RS-1, Crosman" the titan and RS-1 have direct sear triggers IIRC, what crosman is a AR1000 variant?. the AR1000, AR2000 and AR3000 imho are the best buys of chinese rifles at their price points
fwiw Joe
In the meantime....I'm cleaning my gun

Offline Brutuz

  • Global Airgunner
  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 624
  • Tankbuster
    • Airgun info
  • Real Name: Bert
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 02:41:01 AM »
Congrats on your new rifle  8)

I owned a Hammerli Razor (re-badged Norica Marvic Gold clone) but sold it again as I like .22's more. Nice rifle though.

Enjoy
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 02:38:51 PM by Brutuz »
  • Near Amsterdam, the Netherlands
List of my airgun collection bottom of page here: http://www.brutuz.com/
My airgun vids on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/brutuz62
Chinese Airgun Portal http://chineseairgunportal.brutuz.com

Offline GunnerAl

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 03:48:09 AM »
I've got more .177's than .22 air rifles, mostly because the good deals we get here seem to be with the .177 calibre... I would have thought twice if the .22 model was on offer too... I've heard some pretty good muzzle velocities quoted for the AR1000 and usually once the manufacturers rating gets over 1000fps for .177, I begin to think ".22"... Funny thing is, a while ago I also bought a Cometa Fusion in .177... This rifle is rated at 1100+ fps in .177 and I was on auto-glide when I walked in the shop and bought the .177 model. It wasn't until about 3 days later I realized it wasn't the .22 model I originally went to purchase. Oh well, never mind...

Offline flyer

  • Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 98
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 01:32:48 PM »
I owned a Hammerli Razor (Norica Marvic Gold clone) but sold it again as I like .22's more. Nice rifle though.

      A small correction: the  Hämmerli Razor is not a Norica Marvic Gold clone - it is a genuine Norica Marvic Gold made in Spain and sold under the Hämmerli brandname throughout the world.

Offline Brutuz

  • Global Airgunner
  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 624
  • Tankbuster
    • Airgun info
  • Real Name: Bert
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 02:40:39 PM »
You are wright Flyer, corrected my post
  • Near Amsterdam, the Netherlands
List of my airgun collection bottom of page here: http://www.brutuz.com/
My airgun vids on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/brutuz62
Chinese Airgun Portal http://chineseairgunportal.brutuz.com

Offline AirScopes

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1716
  • http://airscopes.com/Zen/
  • Real Name: Richard Lynch
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2010, 03:57:56 AM »
I have 2 TF89s (AR1000), 2 in .22. I have a TF Jet (AR2000) in .22. I've shot the TF87 (AR3000), and I've bought 2 other TF89s for friends. I think the TF guns are the best $$ for $$ deal out there. I rank the TF89 just under my Cometa Fusion, which cost about twice as much. I bought an RWS 350 to do a direct comparison between the TF89 and RWS 350, and the TF89 won.

The Walther Force 1000 is the same gun as the TF89, but without the checkered stock and trueglo sights. If you look on the Shanghai site, there are versions listed. TF89 is the AR1000FC (F=fiber optic; C=checkering) and the WF1000 is an AR1000 -- no frills.

The testing I did between the TF89s and RWS 350 can be found in the old forum here:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/index.php/topic,21583.0.html

I was a doubting Thomas and actually purchased an RWS 350 to compare to the TF89s because of all the grumpy feedback people would give me about getting a 'real gun'. I followed their suggestions. I wasn't all that impressed with the German gun in comparison. Anyway, the discussion there is long with some good feedback. Might be helpful!

Richard
  • Amherst, NY
Own: Cometa: Fenix, 220; Norica: Storm; Mendoza: 2800; Tech Force: BS4, 89, 79, B21; Hatsan: 100; Haenel: 312;  Umarex: Steel Storm; Crossman: Titan GP; Daisy: 953, 880, 300; Remington: Vantage; Walther WFH

Sold: Cometa: Fusion, Lynx; Xisico: B40; Tech Force: Jet; Retay: 135x, 100x; Anschutz: 2002 mini; RWS: 54, 350, 48; Beeman: HW97k;

Offline GunnerAl

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2010, 05:41:41 AM »
I rank the TF89 just under my Cometa Fusion, which cost about twice as much. I bought an RWS 350 to do a direct comparison between the TF89 and RWS 350, and the TF89 won.

The Walther Force 1000 is the same gun as the TF89, but without the checkered stock and trueglo sights. If you look on the Shanghai site, there are versions listed. TF89 is the AR1000FC (F=fiber optic; C=checkering) and the WF1000 is an AR1000 -- no frills.

Richard

I like to hear than.. I too have a Cometa Fusion - Nice, very nice...!!! Got a Cometa 400 Fenix too, which is more or less a no frills version of the Fusion and I love this rifle. It's powerful and deadly accurate for me, probably my all-round favourite (US = favorite) air rifle. I haven't yet fired the AR1000 and may not be able to until the new year - work, work, work... I hope it turns out to be as powerful and accurate as in some of the reviews I seen about them. So many rebrands etc, it's hard to keep a track of them, but I am always happy to read about the TF versions. I wish we could get half the airguns you guys can get over your way. We get a certain amount of brands and models but no where near all of them - pity...!!!

Ok, time for bed. I gotta get up early'ish tomorrow and lay down a floor. It's hot and sticky over here at the moment and today we prepared the kitchen for its new flooring. Tomorrow we have to lay it... I'm not looking forward to it. I'm a builder and in some jobs I wish I wasn't, like this one...

Night all...!!!

Offline AirScopes

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1716
  • http://airscopes.com/Zen/
  • Real Name: Richard Lynch
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2010, 09:25:06 AM »
I'm curious, where'd you get it branded as SAG AR1000?? Certainly not direct from the manufacturer... But then you are not in the US, correct?

My Fenix, honestly, needs more rounds through. I don't know if it is even broken in yet. I got a great deal on an older gun that was absolutely brand new and never fired from a gunseller's estate. Way too inexpensive to pass up. Probably one of the best buys I've ever made. However, it being newish, and not really broken in, the accuracy is a bit erratic. I'm sure it'll straighten out like the Fusion, which may be my most consistent and accurate gun. Anyway, good luck with the floor, and enjoy the AR1000!

Richard
  • Amherst, NY
Own: Cometa: Fenix, 220; Norica: Storm; Mendoza: 2800; Tech Force: BS4, 89, 79, B21; Hatsan: 100; Haenel: 312;  Umarex: Steel Storm; Crossman: Titan GP; Daisy: 953, 880, 300; Remington: Vantage; Walther WFH

Sold: Cometa: Fusion, Lynx; Xisico: B40; Tech Force: Jet; Retay: 135x, 100x; Anschutz: 2002 mini; RWS: 54, 350, 48; Beeman: HW97k;

Offline joek

  • Plinker
  • **
  • Posts: 166
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2010, 03:54:25 PM »
IMHO the norica 2 stage trigger is a better design than the cometa fenix trigger
fwiw Joe
In the meantime....I'm cleaning my gun

Offline GunnerAl

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2010, 11:58:01 PM »
I'm curious, where'd you get it branded as SAG AR1000?? Certainly not direct from the manufacturer... But then you are not in the US, correct?

Whoops, sorry...
It's advertised and sold as SAG but it's actually marked with -  "I AR1000 Magnum", (the "I" is that squashed looking symbol looking more like and "H" on its side in a diamond), then underneath that - Industry Brand "R" Made In China...

Oh, and YES, I'm in New Zealand...
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 12:00:03 AM by GunnerAl »

Offline rkr

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1217
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2010, 06:29:44 AM »
My Ar1000 in .177 does 930 fps with lube tune. A very nice gun once you go through it and fix them small things like nicked piston seal and misadjusted trigger etc.
Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177
BSA Scorpionish .22 bullpup
Evanix Blizzard .357 - 180 fpe silhouette bullpup
FWB300SU
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ bunch of other air guns

Offline GunnerAl

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2010, 03:17:54 PM »
rkr, what pellets are you using to get your 930fps?

I don't have much of a choice of pellets in my small collection...
In .177
JSB Exacts (and BSA Wolverines which I believe are just repacked Exacts) - 8.44gr
Crosman Premier Heavy's - 10.5gr
Winchester Domed - 7.8gr
H&N Baracuda Match Extra Heavy 10.4gr
H&N Field Target (Not FTT's) - 8.5gr

In .22
Gamo Pro Magnum - 15.4gr
RWS Superrdome - 14.3gr
BSA Wolverine - 16.0gr

Of course, I have plenty of each type... These usually serve me pretty darned well over the spread of my rifles...

Offline rkr

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1217
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2010, 03:58:08 PM »
It was either gamo match or RWS meisterkugeln. Both weigh around 8gr. Quite powerful enough for magpies as I've tested  ;) Finding a scope that holds is then another story which is why I'm using iron sights right now.
Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177
BSA Scorpionish .22 bullpup
Evanix Blizzard .357 - 180 fpe silhouette bullpup
FWB300SU
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ bunch of other air guns

Offline AirScopes

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1716
  • http://airscopes.com/Zen/
  • Real Name: Richard Lynch
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2010, 04:09:41 PM »
what scopes have you tried? And what mounts?
  • Amherst, NY
Own: Cometa: Fenix, 220; Norica: Storm; Mendoza: 2800; Tech Force: BS4, 89, 79, B21; Hatsan: 100; Haenel: 312;  Umarex: Steel Storm; Crossman: Titan GP; Daisy: 953, 880, 300; Remington: Vantage; Walther WFH

Sold: Cometa: Fusion, Lynx; Xisico: B40; Tech Force: Jet; Retay: 135x, 100x; Anschutz: 2002 mini; RWS: 54, 350, 48; Beeman: HW97k;

Offline rkr

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1217
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2010, 05:55:44 PM »
what scopes have you tried? And what mounts?

Chinese 4x32 scopes that come with chinese mounts, the same as BSA branded ones. First the "official" scope stop came flying off due to recoil. After that I drilled a hole to the receiver and drilled and tapped one scope mount for proper scope stop. It was still shooting all over the place, about 2" groups at 10M. I put the iron sights back on and it is now quite accurate enough for my shooting. I do prefer this one over my Gamo Hunter Sport with GRT trigger, fancy scope and lube tune.
Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177
BSA Scorpionish .22 bullpup
Evanix Blizzard .357 - 180 fpe silhouette bullpup
FWB300SU
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ bunch of other air guns

Offline GunnerAl

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2010, 11:45:18 PM »
I personally like to use a one piece scope mount, and, one with 4 screws if possible. I might be wrong in my way of thinking but I believe that a one piece mount spreads the grip load over the entire length of the mount and the more screws, the better the spread, whereas with two piece jobs, you have two small areas in which to bit into the grooves. Ontop of a one piece, I usually replace the tightening screws with longer ones, high tensile of course,, and that also allows the clamps to be tightened up just that bit more if needed, whereas I have stripped just the one mount with what looked like far too short screws. I get them so they are all but poking out the other end so as to take advantage of the whole length of thread to tighten up on...

Make sense...!!! I thought not... Hahahahahaha...

Offline rkr

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1217
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2010, 01:21:32 AM »
I personally like to use a one piece scope mount, and, one with 4 screws if possible. I might be wrong in my way of thinking but I believe that a one piece mount spreads the grip load over the entire length of the mount and the more screws, the better the spread, whereas with two piece jobs, you have two small areas in which to bit into the grooves. Ontop of a one piece, I usually replace the tightening screws with longer ones, high tensile of course,, and that also allows the clamps to be tightened up just that bit more if needed, whereas I have stripped just the one mount with what looked like far too short screws. I get them so they are all but poking out the other end so as to take advantage of the whole length of thread to tighten up on...

Make sense...!!! I thought not... Hahahahahaha...

I remember when I tried to make that 4x32 scope work I eventually stripped the original screws while trying to make it stay in place. I then threaded the mounts for proper screws and added the scope stop. That prevented the scope from creeping backwards but I still couldn't hit worth a "dang". Those same scopes have worked fine in all my less powerful air guns.
Viking Mk2 .177/.22 bullpup - grab'n go gun
BSA Scorpion SE .177
BSA Scorpionish .22 bullpup
Evanix Blizzard .357 - 180 fpe silhouette bullpup
FWB300SU
Drozd Blackbird HPA - 1200 rpm full auto fun gun / meat grinder
Evanix AR6 carbine/pistol
+ bunch of other air guns

Offline GunnerAl

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2010, 03:01:38 AM »
Hahahaha,, yeah, know the feeling...

I recently put what I thought was my most reliable scope (Hawke 3-9x40 AO) on a BSA Lightning gas ram'd. It had performed really well on at least 3 other powerful type air rifles. I sighted in the Lightning and it grouped quite well, I decided to change the mount, as I had to wind the elevation turret up so far that I couldn't get the cap back on, so I made a droop compensator mount with some resin in the rear ring (one piece of course) and put it on a couple of days later, re-sighted it back in. Great. I then tried to lay down a couple of groups and all of a sudden everything got blurry, just in the space of about 5 shots or one group. Couldn't figure out what it was. Long story short... The objective lens developed about 2 or 3 mm play (about an eighth of an inch) and was setting everything from about 15 yds and further all out of focus... I still don't actually believe it. So reliable for so long then poof - gone in an instant... I can't even recall where I bought it either, so I could return it... Oh well, cr*p happens I guess...
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 04:06:45 PM by GunnerAl »

Offline AirScopes

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1716
  • http://airscopes.com/Zen/
  • Real Name: Richard Lynch
Re: SAG AR1000 and your equvalents...!!!
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2010, 08:55:15 AM »
Gunner -- you might try contacting Hawke about their guarantee! You might just get that replaced.
  • Amherst, NY
Own: Cometa: Fenix, 220; Norica: Storm; Mendoza: 2800; Tech Force: BS4, 89, 79, B21; Hatsan: 100; Haenel: 312;  Umarex: Steel Storm; Crossman: Titan GP; Daisy: 953, 880, 300; Remington: Vantage; Walther WFH

Sold: Cometa: Fusion, Lynx; Xisico: B40; Tech Force: Jet; Retay: 135x, 100x; Anschutz: 2002 mini; RWS: 54, 350, 48; Beeman: HW97k;

How do you word it... "Air Guns" or "AirGuns"?