Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me



Author Topic: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me  (Read 6154 times)

Offline AirScopes

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Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« on: December 06, 2010, 01:46:43 PM »
I am DONE with listening to the German gun hype. My experience with German guns has gone from bad to worse over the course of owning an RWS 350, RWS 48, and now an RWS 54, purchased last week from airgundaily.com

) http://1dayonly.com/airgun-daily-rws-model-54-22-refurbished-349-99-reg-745-00 (

I was excited with the purchase, and then the package arrived. As I opened it I didn't have much time to enjoy what I purchased. The bluing is rusting. The breach piston is damaged. The stock has two minor dings and that is acceptable. The date on the receiver is 04/06. RUST???! With all I hear about German manufacture the only two guns I have ever seen with rust are RWS guns! Give me a Chinese rifle ANY DAY! Or Spanish or Turkish or Mexican or Eskimo. German quality? Bull.

I am pretty ticked right now. Ticked I ever bought the hogwash about the quality of German manufacture in the slightest. Ticked I bought a refurb that adds insult to injury with my German gun experience. RUST??!

So much for German quality. I'll stick to the Chinese guns as they don't rust.
  • Amherst, NY
Own: Cometa: Fenix, 220; Norica: Storm; Mendoza: 2800; Tech Force: BS4, 89, 79, B21; Hatsan: 100; Haenel: 312;  Umarex: Steel Storm; Crossman: Titan GP; Daisy: 953, 880, 300; Remington: Vantage; Walther WFH

Sold: Cometa: Fusion, Lynx; Xisico: B40; Tech Force: Jet; Retay: 135x, 100x; Anschutz: 2002 mini; RWS: 54, 350, 48; Beeman: HW97k;

run and gun

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2010, 01:54:56 PM »
refurbished what was refurbished? unless i can see the gun before i buy it i just don't know what I'm getting.I'm so sorry is there any way you can send it back?

bill/sjca

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2010, 02:01:49 PM »
sounds like a vendor issue to me. can't holdrws 100% for what happens after they leave the factory.  now if something was designed or machined poorly. have sevral rws guns except for a wood stock on my 350 damaged durring a move they are flawless after 30 years of sitting around.

Offline crowpopper

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2010, 02:02:37 PM »
well ive had 3 rws's all have been superb
2  rws 48's
1 850  the blueing on the 48's were very nice, the only complaint i hade with either gun was they are dry and need some lubing inside
accuracy was superb with my old 48 and the new one is getting 3/4 in gps at 50
id personally go back to the supplier you purchased from as they are obviously the reason for the rusting which is &^^&.
wood grain was ok but it was a 48 and not a 52 so that was expected.
all my guns were "R"  guns also
id call up and complain


Offline AirScopes

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2010, 02:04:42 PM »
the receiver is pocked and rusted from one end to the other. if i left a chinese gun out in the rain for 4 years this wouldn't happen.

ps - holding the phone as i type... seems no one answers at airgunsdaily.com
  • Amherst, NY
Own: Cometa: Fenix, 220; Norica: Storm; Mendoza: 2800; Tech Force: BS4, 89, 79, B21; Hatsan: 100; Haenel: 312;  Umarex: Steel Storm; Crossman: Titan GP; Daisy: 953, 880, 300; Remington: Vantage; Walther WFH

Sold: Cometa: Fusion, Lynx; Xisico: B40; Tech Force: Jet; Retay: 135x, 100x; Anschutz: 2002 mini; RWS: 54, 350, 48; Beeman: HW97k;

Cheap Shot

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2010, 02:21:22 PM »
the receiver is pocked and rusted from one end to the other. if i left a chinese gun out in the rain for 4 years this wouldn't happen.

ps - holding the phone as i type... seems no one answers at airgunsdaily.com

I'm pretty sure that if you chip and scratch the blueing first, don't oil it, and let it get wet, most any gun will rust.

I would not expect a rusty gun to be sold as "refurbished" (whatever that means in the AG world).

Good luck on getting a fair resolution.

Offline uncle paulie

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2010, 02:30:16 PM »
I think that when something is sold as refurbished, that it is coming direct from the FACTORY and that it has been completely gone over and in the case of AG's, there should be nothing wrong with it beyond some minor dings or scratches in the stock, and perhaps a bit of wear on the bluing. Rust is something that would be taken care of and perhaps it should have been re-blued even if cold blued just to stop the rust. I think it is a sign of the times that it is apparently becoming too tempting  for manufacturers to simply sell off their defective merchandise to the highest bidder. The buyer then is responsible for the repairs and reselling the goods. But they take the easy route and do whatever they can minimally do to "fix" the product and they market them as factory re-manufactured. Sure they came from the factory originally, but its not even close to what you think you are buying. I've always been very apprehensive about buying anything remanufactured, unless I can see it first and it comes with the same factory warranty the NIB ones have. I haven't checked out AGD to what their policy is, but I would be very disappointed were I to order one of these and receive something which was 4 years old. Thats not remanufactured, that's old and used!  
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Offline Jay

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2010, 02:54:41 PM »
I hope  they answered for ya Richard(you have not posted in 1/2hr). They seem to be a good dealer an I would say they will replace it for you. I had the pleasure of shooting a friend's "Refurbed" 54 an really saw nothing wrong on it,looked brand new really(had too look for the R's even)?? WoW I guess when you go for one of these deal's it's a roll of the dice. Not sure who he got it from?
N.R.A. ENDOWMENT,N.R.A./I.L.A.,G.O.A. LIFE, N.R.A. Instructor For C.C.W.,ALL FIREARM'S & RELOADING /No Free Man Shall Ever Be Debarred The Use Of Arm's (Thomas Jefferson).   Sheridan's "52" Silver, "79" Silver, "80" Blue, BAM-51 .22, Benji Mrod #31 .22, Benji Trail NP XL .177/.22, Gamo Whisper .177, Beeman RS2 .177/.22, Crosman 1377 .177, B-3-1 AK .177. FIREARM's Far more than I need NOT as many as I want.(More AG's to come I'm sure).

Offline AirScopes

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2010, 02:59:57 PM »
no one is answering the phone. ticks me off that they'd even send something out looking like this...

  • Amherst, NY
Own: Cometa: Fenix, 220; Norica: Storm; Mendoza: 2800; Tech Force: BS4, 89, 79, B21; Hatsan: 100; Haenel: 312;  Umarex: Steel Storm; Crossman: Titan GP; Daisy: 953, 880, 300; Remington: Vantage; Walther WFH

Sold: Cometa: Fusion, Lynx; Xisico: B40; Tech Force: Jet; Retay: 135x, 100x; Anschutz: 2002 mini; RWS: 54, 350, 48; Beeman: HW97k;

Offline Jay

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2010, 03:10:12 PM »
I agree whole heartedly Bro., a lite rust by accident like finger print left on or a moisture coat during shipping would be bad enough but if it has pocking already it's not newly formed rust.
N.R.A. ENDOWMENT,N.R.A./I.L.A.,G.O.A. LIFE, N.R.A. Instructor For C.C.W.,ALL FIREARM'S & RELOADING /No Free Man Shall Ever Be Debarred The Use Of Arm's (Thomas Jefferson).   Sheridan's "52" Silver, "79" Silver, "80" Blue, BAM-51 .22, Benji Mrod #31 .22, Benji Trail NP XL .177/.22, Gamo Whisper .177, Beeman RS2 .177/.22, Crosman 1377 .177, B-3-1 AK .177. FIREARM's Far more than I need NOT as many as I want.(More AG's to come I'm sure).

Offline Nathan

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2010, 03:22:53 PM »
All the problems you are describing have NOTHING to do with the Country of manufacture and itís therefore assumed quality or lack thereof. You received a gun in poor condition, and regardless of where itís made, NO DEALER should have sent it out like that, refurbished or not.  You state that the gun was made in 04/06; well thatís almost 5 years ago. How long did the customer own it before it was sent back and allegedly refurbished? Has it been sitting a non controlled environment all this time? Sounds like it to me.  I understand you frustration, but your beef is with Airguns Daily, not RWS. I will bet money that rifle did not leave the assembly line in Rastatt in the condition you describe.  

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Offline AirScopes

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2010, 03:32:37 PM »
Like I said, 3 RWS guns I have had. 3 guns with manufacturing issues. I've had some 20 other guns... and still have about 16. Some of them are close to 20 years old. NONE of them have rust. I have a bunch of Chinese guns that people who push German guns put down... I've never has a disappointment like this with another gun. German guns... Phui.
  • Amherst, NY
Own: Cometa: Fenix, 220; Norica: Storm; Mendoza: 2800; Tech Force: BS4, 89, 79, B21; Hatsan: 100; Haenel: 312;  Umarex: Steel Storm; Crossman: Titan GP; Daisy: 953, 880, 300; Remington: Vantage; Walther WFH

Sold: Cometa: Fusion, Lynx; Xisico: B40; Tech Force: Jet; Retay: 135x, 100x; Anschutz: 2002 mini; RWS: 54, 350, 48; Beeman: HW97k;

Offline Nathan

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2010, 03:55:32 PM »
It's too bad that your experiences have soured you to RWS guns.  If you had bought that rifle from a private seller off a classified, would you still blame RWS for the rust (not the actual, alleged or perceived manufacturing issues)? Well itís you money and you buy what you like and are happy with. I honestly do hope you get this incident resolved to your satisfaction.  I believe that you were shipped a substandard gun and Airguns Daily should make things right.

Nathan
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Offline oldpink

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2010, 05:02:28 PM »
Seriously, it doesn't sound like an RWS thing.
It sound more like RWS refurbished them, then AGD got hold of them and improperly stored them or left them on the shelf an excessive amount of time.
There are just too many good things said about RWS's craftsmanship here and elsewhere for this to be something they did.
I point the finger at AGD, at least until you learn otherwise.
You are certainly entitled to a return for a refurb in decent condition.
Airguns...they're not just for kids anymore.

a1Bogey

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2010, 05:03:07 PM »
Your disappointment is understandable.   However,  the distributor may have a good deal of responsibilty for the poor condition of the RWS you recieved.  Can you send it back?   If so , do so.    No reason to keep something you are unhappy with.

Best of Luck.   Hope you get some satisfaction.

Bogey

Online ezman604

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2010, 05:09:11 PM »
Scott is a member here and says he will always treat us right. Give him a chance Richard, I'm sure he'll make it right.
Not sure about the phone deal but drop him an email too.
scott@echocommerce.net

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Dave
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Offline gene_sc

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2010, 05:15:27 PM »
I am DONE with listening to the German gun hype. My experience with German guns has gone from bad to worse over the course of owning an RWS 350, RWS 48, and now an RWS 54, purchased last week from airgundaily.com

) http://1dayonly.com/airgun-daily-rws-model-54-22-refurbished-349-99-reg-745-00 (

I was excited with the purchase, and then the package arrived. As I opened it I didn't have much time to enjoy what I purchased. The bluing is rusting. The breach piston is damaged. The stock has two minor dings and that is acceptable. The date on the receiver is 04/06. RUST???! With all I hear about German manufacture the only two guns I have ever seen with rust are RWS guns! Give me a Chinese rifle ANY DAY! Or Spanish or Turkish or Mexican or Eskimo. German quality? Bull.

I am pretty ticked right now. Ticked I ever bought the hogwash about the quality of German manufacture in the slightest. Ticked I bought a refurb that adds insult to injury with my German gun experience. RUST??!

So much for German quality. I'll stick to the Chinese guns as they don't rust.
I have some news for you...:) There are only a few pro tuners that can tune the RWS 54 properly. Personally I would never buy an RWS 54 used nor refurbished.

If someone has taken it appart and did a so called lube tune on it then it most likely will never shoot right again.
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH:   HW-97K,  Crosman Kantana, CZ-200, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery,  Remington NPSS .177, Crosman Venom, Crosman RamQuest, Gamo 440, Gamo S1K, Gamo CFX Synthetic, Gamo CFX Royal,  RWS 24

Offline CharlieDaTuna

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2010, 05:36:11 PM »
It doesn't sound like a manufacturing issue to me either. A lot can happen to a gun in 4.5 years. You can bet that it didn't come off the line like that 4 and a half years ago. Their QC standards where a lot higher back then they are today and are still today pretty high. And keep in mind, it was probably not refurbed in Germany... it was likely done here in the US.  ::)

Now the distributor and dealer.... that is another thing. It perhaps should have never gotten through....but... I doubt that they would inspect every refurb if any. They would probably never know why it was sent back to begin with and wouldn't know what to look for.  ??? ??? That said, I suppose refurbs should all at least be test fired and just a quick look over.

Hey Paul..... about those BMW German cars.  I bought my wife a new Beemer not long ago ...a  Z-4 made in Germany and it's a fantastic car and one heck of a roadster. In my opinion, one of the best cars made today those BMW's. We have a BMW plant about 15 miles from where I live and took a tour through it. Amazing... ;)
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Offline gene_sc

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- for me
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2010, 05:36:46 PM »
Scott is a member here and says he will always treat us right. Give him a chance Richard, I'm sure he'll make it right.
Not sure about the phone deal but drop him an email too.
scott@echocommerce.net

Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
 8)


Dez is right. Scott only sells them and does not refurbish them. All refurbished RWS guns come fro Umarex. One place I would personally never buy a refurb gun from.
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH:   HW-97K,  Crosman Kantana, CZ-200, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery,  Remington NPSS .177, Crosman Venom, Crosman RamQuest, Gamo 440, Gamo S1K, Gamo CFX Synthetic, Gamo CFX Royal,  RWS 24

Offline AirScopes

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Re: Final nail in the coffin of German guns -- Customer "care"
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2010, 05:56:36 PM »
Here is a message I got from airgundepot...

---

Hi,

Per our website, our return policy is we do not accept any returns and all sales are final.  AirGunsDaily deeply discounts the price on guns and in so doing can not take back returns. Furthermore, cosmetic defects are never covered under warranty. 

I am sorry for the trouble but there is nothing we can do for you.


Best Regards,

Matt
Customer Care

Airgundepot.com
tacticalair.com
airgunsdaily.com
armoryofreplicas.com

---

In other words, here is your SH%^$#T gun, you are screwed.

I hope this is a warning to anyone considering refurbs from airgundepot. If I get no satisfaction, I will have to make a stink on BOI and our own vendor area.

Here are some pictures so you don't all think I'm nutty...
  • Amherst, NY
Own: Cometa: Fenix, 220; Norica: Storm; Mendoza: 2800; Tech Force: BS4, 89, 79, B21; Hatsan: 100; Haenel: 312;  Umarex: Steel Storm; Crossman: Titan GP; Daisy: 953, 880, 300; Remington: Vantage; Walther WFH

Sold: Cometa: Fusion, Lynx; Xisico: B40; Tech Force: Jet; Retay: 135x, 100x; Anschutz: 2002 mini; RWS: 54, 350, 48; Beeman: HW97k;

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