.44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo

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Offline tunaboat

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.44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« on: October 26, 2010, 07:46:27 AM »
.44 Magnum Accident (Got this info in an email)

First it was baby formula, then pet food but now you should watch out when buying anything from China , including bright, shiny ammunition. A guy came into the police department the other day to ask a favor. He had a S&W 629 (.44 Mag) that he wanted to dispose of after a mishap at the range. He said there was a loud bang when he tested his new ammo, (Chinese made), and the gun smacked him in the forehead, leaving a nice gash. When the tweety birds cleared from around his head, the pictures show what he saw. Bet he never uses Chinese made ammo again! Looks like when the round in the chamber went off, it also set off at least two other rounds in adjacent cylinders. I would have hated to been the one that pulled the trigger on that one!


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Offline maxiedog

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2010, 07:48:41 AM »
WOW Lucky man
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Offline Rocker1

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2010, 07:51:34 AM »
WOW!!!! He is lucky to still be here I have never seen anything like that I have seen shotguns split the barrel and some pistols split the bullet but this beats all  the shells acturally exploded in the chamber, I am glad this gentle man is still with us and I will not buy any chinese ammo now for sure. Thanks David
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Lochlainn

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2010, 08:18:49 AM »
That's insane! Thanks for the heads up on Chinese ammo!

Offline Onebaddj

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2010, 09:00:35 AM »
Thats a nasty accodent. Cant beleive it blew the cylender apart like that. Hes one lucky dude.
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Offline oldpink

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2010, 09:41:55 AM »
My guess would be that the fools in the plant where it was manufactured put a W296/H110 sized charge of a Bullseye or Red Dot equivalent powder in those cases.
In other words, they probably put a huge overdose of very quick burning powder in the cases, which would certainly result in this kind of thing.
All the more reason to go to handloading, thereby permanently untethering yourself from defective and (in this case) dangerous factory ammo.
Why anyone would use Chinese ammo is beyond me, even if it is cheap.
If you must use factory, Remington and Federal both make reasonably priced ammo.
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daved

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2010, 11:51:16 AM »
My guess would be that the fools in the plant where it was manufactured put a W296/H110 sized charge of a Bullseye or Red Dot equivalent powder in those cases.
In other words, they probably put a huge overdose of very quick burning powder in the cases, which would certainly result in this kind of thing.
All the more reason to go to handloading, thereby permanently untethering yourself from defective and (in this case) dangerous factory ammo.
Why anyone would use Chinese ammo is beyond me, even if it is cheap.
If you must use factory, Remington and Federal both make reasonably priced ammo.

Don't think so, this is a primer problem.  Either that, or they loaded it with black powder, which is concussion sensitive, unlike modern smokeless powder.  This sort of thing used to happen with the old cap and ball revolvers, it was called a chain fire.

Not so sure that reloading is the answer, I reloaded years ago for a .41 Mag Ruger Blackhawk.  I'd worked up a nice mild target load, very accurate and comfortable to shoot.  Was shooting some at my local range when suddenly, the world exploded, or at least, that's what it sounded/felt like :-).  I never did figure out for sure what happened, but can only assume that I somehow got distracted and double charged a case.  I pulled the bullets and dumped the powder from the rest of that batch, just in case, and had my local gun smith get the stuck case out of the cylinder and check the gun over, no damage.  Gotta love them old Rugers!  Was in the Navy at the time, went to sea shortly after that, and the "friends" I left my guns and other stuff with moved and left no forwarding address.  Haven't reloaded since, although I'm thinking of getting back into it, so I can shoot my .308 more often.  Later.

Dave 

Offline RedFeather

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2010, 12:56:08 PM »
Sounds like a Darwin AND a Scopes candidate to me.  Smelling something here a little stronger than cordite. 

First off, I don't think there is any way to load cartridges with black powder and produce those results.  Even with an air space, you can't build nearly that much pressure.  The old "chain fire" associated with cap and ball revolvers was due mostly to poorly sealed balls in the adjacent cylinders allowing the flash to back flow, which is why they recommend an over-wad or some kind of grease on the chamber mouths.

This has all the tell tales of a bad hand load.  Try searching on Chinese .44 S&W magnum ammunition and all you will find is the same story, repeated verbatim.  Zero hits on any Chinese ammo brands.  You would have thought they would also post a picture of the head stamp in order to warn us away from this menace?

Just did a bit more searching.  Seems this one has been making the rounds.  Here's an earlier incarnation:

http://www.newjerseyhunter.com/article69792.htm

Offline Jay

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2010, 01:16:38 PM »
Really don't think it had anything to do with a primer or "chain fire",I would say it is a factory screw up(I have heard an seen another chinese cartridge mishap in a AR15 platform being used by police training) or he had a barrel obstruction an fired a round into it. So 1. They really need to get control on their Q.C. in China an 2. If you reload with a "single stage" press ALWAY's take the time to LOOK at each case an it's charge(a double charge is easy to spot) before setting your bullet. Be safe an reload with your brain in the "on" position.
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Offline Nathan

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2010, 01:21:36 PM »
"Try searching on Chinese .44 S&W magnum ammunition" I was going to say, I didn't know of any one who was importing Chinese made .44 mag. Doesn't mean it couldn't, wouldn't or hasn't happened.

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Offline RedFeather

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2010, 03:04:51 PM »
Guys, I don't think there IS any Chinese .44 mag ammo around.  This thing appears to have been floating around, first as a reloading mishap.  Boy, the Big Lie is alive and well!  (If something is repeated loud enough and long enough....)

a1Bogey

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2010, 03:42:39 PM »
Regarding the photos, very interesting.   Regarding the explanation, well who knows for sure what the cause could be.
I have personally never seen or heard of Chinese ammo in .44 mag.  Not saying it does not exist...just have never seen any.   I have seen .44 mag from Serbia.   As far as blackpowder goes,  I have loaded .44 cases with blackpowder and even compressed the pressures are quite low.  Mainly smoke.   Could the barrel have been blocked?  The photos do not show any detectable bulge in the barrel.   Could  handloads have been used and the blame put on " foreign" ammo, could be.   It is dangerous to brew up reloads on your own.   Filling a .44 case with a fast burning powder such as Bullseye would be very very dangerous.  And can and will take apart even a quality handgun.  And this would not be just limited to .44 cases, but all calibers.

I saw a  Weatherby blown apart when a fellow thought he could improve the performance of the cartridge with his own tinkering.

Only a close exam and the truth will tell the tale of what actually happened.


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Offline Jay

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2010, 03:47:11 PM »
Your right Red I did do a search for the dreaded chinese .44 mag an I found exactly 0 importer's of china made .44 pistol ammo(rifle yes). Did find a ton of this guy out there floating around an his story.
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Offline bart the fart

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2010, 04:06:39 PM »
china ammo or not, this still looks very scary...
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Offline RedFeather

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2010, 11:29:48 PM »
Not uncommon at a lot of ranges.  One I used to visit had a board with mishaps mounted on it.  Lots of sectioned barrels with five or six slugs, stacked and, of course, revolver frames with the top straps bulged.  This gun even had the top of the barrel blown off above the forcing cone.  It is hard to imagine what kind of load he cooked up that had the power to take out the two adjacent chambers.  May his "S&W tattoo" stand as a constant reminder every time he looks in the mirror.

BTW, black powder can create some serious pressures if configured properly.  Rodman (of the Civil War Rodman gun fame) did experiments in the late 1800's and achieved pressures of something like 125,000 psi.  And light squib or gallery loads have been known to "ring" the chambers on old Springfield .45-70's.

Now, how would you like to have been standing at the next station where this guy was shooting?  At another range, they told me there was this bird who came in with an S&W .357 magnum who bragged about his hot "custom" handloads.  One day they heard a "Kaboom!" from one of the far stations.  When they checked it out, all they found was part of a blown S&W .357 mag cylinder.  Said that particular shooter never showed up at the range again.  A co-inky-dink?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 11:31:42 PM by RedFeather »

yote300wsm

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2010, 12:25:52 PM »
Sounds more like a H110 load that was reduced past the 3% that Hogdon recommends. Hogdon is VERY clear in this issue. If you reduce starting loads more than 3% detonation will occur. H110 is a full power load. All or nothing. No wimps allowed.

a1Bogey

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2010, 12:47:19 PM »
I know that this comment is drifting off the original post but I have been at shooting ranges that strictly forbade persons using reloads.   One can only believe that it was because of risk of safety concerns.  And I do not know if the pictured S&W suffered from a poorly thought out reloading session.

I 've been a reloader for decades and you cannot let yourself get distracted while loading.   And ideas of creating some sort of super-loads should be left to mad scientist or fools.   Years ago a fellow reloader gave me some .45 acp rounds to try.   I fired one (1) round.  The recoil was extreme to say the least.  The recoil caused the barrel lug to leave a permanent imprint on the frame.  Being very p*ssed does not say it all.   After that I made it a rule to never use unknown reloads.  If I didn't load it I don't shoot it.


Bogey

yote300wsm

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2010, 12:58:30 PM »
The only hand-loads that I shoot are mine or my Fathers. I guess that I won't be going to those ranges. Hand-loads are all that I shoot.

Offline oldpink

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Re: .44 Magnum Accident / Chinese ammo
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2010, 02:04:08 PM »
a1Bogey and yote300wsm pretty definitively explained this one and the need for extreme care when assembling handloads.
yote's definitely right.
If you reduce H110/W296, you are asking for trouble.
Those are slow burning double-based ball powders intended for full power loads from the likes of .357/.41/.44 magnum and (Ruger and T/C Contender only!) enhanced power .45 Colt loads.
If you reduce your charge too much with that particular powder (and some other magnum powders), detonation is a near certainty.
Double-based powders are called double based because they contain a little something extra that the cooler burning single-based powders (IMR4831, is single based) don't have, and that something extra is called nitro glycerin.
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