2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak

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Offline Airik

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2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« on: October 16, 2012, 02:39:02 AM »
I'm torn between the Benjamin 397 .177 and 392 .22 for my first pumper.  I'm not looking at the Sheridan Blue Streak .20 because of its advertised lesser fps of the three, and $50 additional cost.  I'd be using this for a >30yrd addition to my hunters for small bird and fox squirrels in the field.

I don't have the cash for PCP yet, so I want a pumper, to add to my arsenal, that I don't have to worry about being "cocked" for an hour (versus springers and NP that I don't leave cocked for more than 5-10 minutes), plus I'd love a lightweight gun.  It would also be my first "fixed barrel" airgun.

The physical 2012 Crosman catalog lists the following:

Benjamin 397 .177:
"Up to 800 fps"
"11.2 fpe"

Benjamin 392 .22:
"Up to 685 fps"
"14.9 fpe"

Sheridan Blue Streak .20:
"Up to 675 fps"
"14.5 fpe"

It confuses me why the Blue Streak .20 is slower than the 392 .22.

I'm leaning toward the 397 for because of more pellet options, including 10.5gr boxed Crosman Premier Domed that are such a bargain.  So, with the 397, I could shoot anything from medium to heavy pellets.  I wouldn't want to shoot .22 heavies in the 392.

What are the differences in the innards and triggers, if any?

I have a few more questions, but I'll leave that for later.  What are your opinions?  Thanks a ton.

Edit: Added pics via Crosman.com.  All have EXACT SAME wood grain and kB :D  ::)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 08:36:32 PM by Airik »

Offline Lambchops

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2012, 03:18:52 AM »
I have a Benjamin 397 from 1995, and a Benjamin & Sheridan Blue Streak .20 from the 1960s, both belonging to my grandpa and given to me when he passed. He was the one that showed me the joy of airguns...

Anyways, both are very good. The .20 has a limited selection of pellets and costs more. The .177 has significantly less power than the other two. The Benjamin 392 really packs a punch on small game and you can use heavy pellets and they will give more fpe most of the time. I suggest the 392, and always keep it oiled!
  • Texas
Hatsan Model 95 .177
Stoeger X20S .22
Crosman Titan Low Velocity .22
Walther Falcon Hunter .25
Benjamin 397 .177
Beeman RS2 .177 & .22
Sheridan Blue Streak 1969 .20
Sheridan HB22 1985 .22
Crosman 1378
Crosman 3576w


2012 Critter Count

Squirrels- 9
Starlings- 6
HOSP- 1
Grackles- 20+

Offline Airik

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 03:21:21 AM »
I have a Benjamin 397 from 1995, and a Benjamin & Sheridan Blue Streak .20 from the 1960s, both belonging to my grandpa and given to me when he passed. He was the one that showed me the joy of airguns...

Anyways, both are very good. The .20 has a limited selection of pellets and costs more. The .177 has significantly less power than the other two. The Benjamin 392 really packs a punch on small game and you can use heavy pellets and they will give more fpe most of the time. I suggest the 392, and always keep it oiled!

Thanks, Lambo, but mine will be a lower quality 2012 model.  Your post means nothing :P  :)  :P  :)

Edit:  I'm not sure if you read the original post.  I posted the "power" specs of each, and also asked if all the innards were the same.  :)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 03:31:35 AM by Airik »

Offline Lambchops

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2012, 04:52:43 AM »
For the most part, the innards are the same. The triggers on them all are the same and are really terrible though. And most have paint in the barrel that screws up accuracy. The .20 is slower because there is less surface area for the air to push against the back of the pellet.
  • Texas
Hatsan Model 95 .177
Stoeger X20S .22
Crosman Titan Low Velocity .22
Walther Falcon Hunter .25
Benjamin 397 .177
Beeman RS2 .177 & .22
Sheridan Blue Streak 1969 .20
Sheridan HB22 1985 .22
Crosman 1378
Crosman 3576w


2012 Critter Count

Squirrels- 9
Starlings- 6
HOSP- 1
Grackles- 20+

Offline Airik

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2012, 05:07:54 AM »
Benjamin 397 .177:
"Up to 800 fps"
"11.2 fpe"

Benjamin 392 .22:
"Up to 685 fps"
"14.9 fpe"

Sheridan Blue Streak .20:
"Up to 675 fps"
"14.5 fpe"

The Blue Streak .20 should be in the middle.  This confuses me.

Offline jdub

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2012, 06:11:27 AM »
The difference in velocity is not because of the diameter of the pellet.  Your numbers provide the answer just plug in the missing variable--pellet weight.

At 685 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.9 FPE
At 675 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.47 FPE
At 800 fps a 7.9 gr pellet gives you 11.2 FPE

They tested both the .20 .22 caliber gun with the same weight pellet.  Nothing wrong with that it just looks weird.  Your used to seeing pellet weight increase when caliber increases.
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Offline Airik

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2012, 07:00:22 AM »
^ Thanks, @jdub.  I figured such, but it really does confuse the customer with what they assume we perceive, and what they advertise.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 07:06:32 AM by Airik »

Offline BALLISTIC1

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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2012, 09:12:36 AM »
I have what I believe are SOME of the best and baddest Benjamin and Sheridan rifle IN THE WORLD!!!!!!

Don't you think it is kind of rude when you tell someone that their post means NOTHING when they take the time to TRY to help you and answer question(s) that you asked...

As you stated in your original post the gun in the photo's IS THE EXACT SAME GUN!!!
In fact, the guns,except for the caliber specific parts, i.e. barrel, bolt, and bolt oring are IDENTICAL!!!!
The price difference is probably politically related from when Benjamin bought Sheridan and Crosman bought both of them. Sheridans have always cost more it was probably part of the DEAL..... The biggest drawback with the Sheridan other than price is pellet availability.
 
Being that the .22 and the .20 use the exact same powerplant, if you are shooting the same weight pellet the .20 should shoot farther flatter because of it's smaller diameter. And will make almost the same FPE in 'real world testing'....

Caveat emptor (buyer beware)...  Advertisers lie or stretch the truth all of the time... Knowledge is the unfair advantage.

If you plan to use your rifle for any kind of hunting or if you are considering power mods don't even waste your time with the .177. My modded 392 makes very close to 24ftlbs...  The .177 does not accept power mods near as well.. In my opinion the only reason to buy a .177 is price and availability of pellets. 

Greg



« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 09:23:28 AM by BALLISTIC1 »
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Offline TimmyMac1

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2012, 10:34:17 AM »
The difference in velocity is not because of the diameter of the pellet.  Your numbers provide the answer just plug in the missing variable--pellet weight.

At 685 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.9 FPE
At 675 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.47 FPE
At 800 fps a 7.9 gr pellet gives you 11.2 FPE

They tested both the .20 .22 caliber gun with the same weight pellet.  Nothing wrong with that it just looks weird.  Your used to seeing pellet weight increase when caliber increases.

Your putting way too much stock in factory numbers. It is really more like this;
.177 with 7 grain is 800 fps
.20 cal with a 10 grain  685
.22 cal with a 11.9 grain 675

Everyone uses the lightest ammo imaginable for speed figures and they do get creative. FPE potential from these drivetrains in STEROID fashion is;
25 fpe in .22
22 fpe in .20
19 fpe in .177

All these energy figures would be from the heaviest pellet made(28.5 .22, 23.4 .20 and 16 grain .177) in those calibers which is how a high output MSP system makes the most energy. Light pellet FPS data WILL BE FAR LOWER fpe. Multis don't make speed so to fgo in that direction will be a huge dissapointment. .177 caliber Steroids are great for shooting more and pumping less but at full tilt they are a monumental waste of human resources.

There is no way a 14.3 at 8 puumps out of a .20 and .22 will shoot at the same power level. Area matters when pushing lead down a bore with Air. the .22 is more efficient. You go up in power when you go up in caliber. ALL OTHER THINGS HELD EQUAL!

Later TimmyMac1
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Offline Lambchops

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2012, 10:34:43 AM »
I have what I believe are SOME of the best and baddest Benjamin and Sheridan rifle IN THE WORLD!!!!!!

Don't you think it is kind of rude when you tell someone that their post means NOTHING when they take the time to TRY to help you and answer question(s) that you asked...

As you stated in your original post the gun in the photo's IS THE EXACT SAME GUN!!!
In fact, the guns,except for the caliber specific parts, i.e. barrel, bolt, and bolt oring are IDENTICAL!!!!
The price difference is probably politically related from when Benjamin bought Sheridan and Crosman bought both of them. Sheridans have always cost more it was probably part of the DEAL..... The biggest drawback with the Sheridan other than price is pellet availability.
 
Being that the .22 and the .20 use the exact same powerplant, if you are shooting the same weight pellet the .20 should shoot farther flatter because of it's smaller diameter. And will make almost the same FPE in 'real world testing'....

Caveat emptor (buyer beware)...  Advertisers lie or stretch the truth all of the time... Knowledge is the unfair advantage.

If you plan to use your rifle for any kind of hunting or if you are considering power mods don't even waste your time with the .177. My modded 392 makes very close to 24ftlbs...  The .177 does not accept power mods near as well.. In my opinion the only reason to buy a .177 is price and availability of pellets. 

Greg





X2
  • Texas
Hatsan Model 95 .177
Stoeger X20S .22
Crosman Titan Low Velocity .22
Walther Falcon Hunter .25
Benjamin 397 .177
Beeman RS2 .177 & .22
Sheridan Blue Streak 1969 .20
Sheridan HB22 1985 .22
Crosman 1378
Crosman 3576w


2012 Critter Count

Squirrels- 9
Starlings- 6
HOSP- 1
Grackles- 20+

Offline Airik

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2012, 11:16:44 AM »
I have what I believe are SOME of the best and baddest Benjamin and Sheridan rifle IN THE WORLD!!!!!!

Don't you think it is kind of rude when you tell someone that their post means NOTHING when they take the time to TRY to help you and answer question(s) that you asked...

It was a dry joke that I'm sure Lambo got, and hopefully the rest of the world got.  I wasn't being rude whatsoever, hence all the smiley faces.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 11:18:18 AM by Airik »

Offline Lambchops

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2012, 12:59:20 PM »
Lambo Guinea!
  • Texas
Hatsan Model 95 .177
Stoeger X20S .22
Crosman Titan Low Velocity .22
Walther Falcon Hunter .25
Benjamin 397 .177
Beeman RS2 .177 & .22
Sheridan Blue Streak 1969 .20
Sheridan HB22 1985 .22
Crosman 1378
Crosman 3576w


2012 Critter Count

Squirrels- 9
Starlings- 6
HOSP- 1
Grackles- 20+

Offline Airik

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2012, 01:37:44 PM »
Lambo Guinea!

For sure, bud :)

I've been given the name, "Air Kick," recently, thanks to Sarge. lol.  :)

Offline Airik

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2012, 01:44:46 PM »
^ @TimmyMac1,

"Everyone uses the lightest ammo imaginable for speed figures and they do get creative."

I realize this, also.  In my original post, I used quotation marks to stress this 'advertised' point.

Offline Oni

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2012, 01:49:18 PM »
I'd get a Mac 1 tuned 392.  Check out his subforum.  Get some secret sauce to keep it going for years!

I have a Condor and an old 342 that I sadly learned is not eligible for a steroid tune.  I still plan on having Tim make me a 392 as soon as he gets the Gen 2 brake install figured out.
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Offline jdub

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2012, 02:44:23 PM »
The difference in velocity is not because of the diameter of the pellet.  Your numbers provide the answer just plug in the missing variable--pellet weight.

At 685 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.9 FPE
At 675 fps a 14.3 gr pellet gives you 14.47 FPE
At 800 fps a 7.9 gr pellet gives you 11.2 FPE

They tested both the .20 .22 caliber gun with the same weight pellet.  Nothing wrong with that it just looks weird.  Your used to seeing pellet weight increase when caliber increases.

Your putting way too much stock in factory numbers. It is really more like this;
.177 with 7 grain is 800 fps
.20 cal with a 10 grain  685
.22 cal with a 11.9 grain 675


On the contrary I have *no* faith in factory numbers and wasn't attempting to argue that the posted numbers were accurate--only that a critical piece of the equation was being left out of consideration--pellet weight.  And most manufacturers purposely omit it.   Sorry for the confusion--I didn't mean for it to sound like a defense of stated numbers.

Because of your expertise in this area I certainly trust your numbers more than those posted by Crosman/Benjamin with regards to how each of these guns can be expected to perform in real life.   From a personal point of view I have both a 20 year old Blue Streak and a recent model 392 and I prefer the Blue Streak by a very wide margin.  :)

Cheers!
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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2012, 01:29:43 PM »
hey-Hey!!!,
Three vintage Streaks( all Blue ) so far. Up to 40 years old. No intrest in the new stuff, and at some point I'll get one that's 50 yo..:) get a good shooter and send to Tim and you won't regret it. Two of mine are on their way home from Tim's shop after getting Steroid tunes. I can't wait...it feels like they've been gone forever( but it's more like a month ). I have a pair of good shooting rifles, a springer and a PCP and I really doubt I'd miss either of them as much as I miss the Sheridans.

there are two on GunAuction and the price isn't nutsy yet...was seriously considering the Silver...:)
cheers,
Douglas
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1990 D250, NV5600, Luk 05-101, 16cm housing, TST Kit KDP tab, 366 spring, Powr-Lok'd 3.07, HX35...IC soon

She wasn't built to travel at the speed a rumour flies

Offline Airik

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2012, 01:59:19 PM »
Tim, how much is a 397 or 392 tune on a new gun? And what does it involve?

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Re: 2012 Benjamin 397 VS Benjamin 392 VS Sheridan Blue Streak
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2012, 02:43:00 PM »
Tim, how much is a 397 or 392 tune on a new gun? And what does it involve?

Cal Tim, he'll give you the straight goods; I have no idear what it involves on a 392.
cheers,
Douglas
  • Ann Arbor, MI
1990 D250, NV5600, Luk 05-101, 16cm housing, TST Kit KDP tab, 366 spring, Powr-Lok'd 3.07, HX35...IC soon

She wasn't built to travel at the speed a rumour flies

Offline BALLISTIC1

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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2012, 02:57:32 PM »
Three of the four guns in the photo's above are Billet Steroid Modified by Tim at Mac1.... He is definitely the go to guy when it comes to hopping up a Benjamin Or Sheridan! I LOVE MINE!!!! Greg
  • Winchester Ohio
GO BALLISTIC!!!!    BE#1


How do you word it... "Air Guns" or "AirGuns"?