ninja paintball regulator ?



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Offline renowntwo

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ninja paintball regulator ?
« on: August 08, 2012, 02:32:45 AM »
Well finally got the reg rebuild kit in now I need some advice about how many shims to add to got me around 1000 psi. The videos that I've watched all have been about droppings the pressure. My question is: how much will one red shim increase the psi ?
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Offline rsterne

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 02:42:39 AM »
If you are starting with the 850 psi regulator which uses a coil spring, ADDING shims may well put the spring into coil bind and cause the pressure to go straight to 3000 psi, blowing the burst disc.... The Ninja regulators intended for 1000 psi and up use a stack of belleville washers (disc springs) NOT a coil spring.... Here is a graph I did on shimming them....



Does your regulator have a coil spring inside or a stack of disc springs?....

Bob
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal:
.177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine (Grouse Gun), 2260 PCP Rifle (37 FPE), 2560 PCP Rifle (52 FPE), .22 BAM B-26, .22 BAM B-51, Hatsan AT-4410 Long (70 FPE),
"Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, .308 & .357 unregulated; working on the Mk.III, a .410 shotgun, and .458 cal)

Offline renowntwo

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2012, 09:25:06 AM »
Mr. Rsterne, it has a spring.
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Offline John B

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2012, 12:44:20 PM »
Frank,
Right, you have an 850psi reg which has a spring & shim. Leave it alone. If you want a higher psi, either order the higher reg with spring wahsers-the one the USFT uses- or rebuild you with the washers. Shimming the 850 "can" be done but is not the way to go about things.
John
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Offline renowntwo

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2012, 01:46:42 PM »
Thanks Mr. John B. I was under the impression it would  be safe to do . But with yours and Mr. Rsterne post  has me thinking that i should just order a new reg from ninja and have them set the output pressure for me. Do want to make a big bloom. LOL.
 I see now why I never seen any video's of anyone  increaseing psi on their tanks. Well back to the drawing broad I go.
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Offline rsterne

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2012, 04:57:04 PM »
You can convert the regulator to use belleville washers instead of a coil spring, as the housing and piston are the same.... You will need the proper bellevilles (McMaster Carr) plus a selection of various thicknesses of shims.... If you're not comfortable with that, purchasing another reg is probably the best idea....

Bob
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal:
.177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine (Grouse Gun), 2260 PCP Rifle (37 FPE), 2560 PCP Rifle (52 FPE), .22 BAM B-26, .22 BAM B-51, Hatsan AT-4410 Long (70 FPE),
"Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, .308 & .357 unregulated; working on the Mk.III, a .410 shotgun, and .458 cal)

Online Rescue912

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2012, 05:16:50 PM »
You can get the shims & belleville washers (disc springs) from McMaster-Carr. They are 5/16" ID x 5/8" OD and come in .032" and .022" thick. Shims are also available there.

I have a regulated valve that Bob built for a disco that I replaced the coil spring with bellevilles. I use shims & springs that I got at MC.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 05:27:19 PM by rsterne »
Stay tuned ...

Offline renowntwo

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2012, 12:56:30 PM »
Mr. Rsterne & Rescue912, that's what I wanted to do ( DIY ).  I always like to know how things work but I wanted to be done right. Now  comes the question.
1. Mr. Rsterne looking at the graph  I would only need 1 thin cup washer and shims it to 0.020" to get 1000 psi. Is that correct ?
2. After I remove the spring in the reg do I need anything to hold the belleville washer and shims  in place? If so, can you tell me.
3. Does the shims have the same I.D. & O.D. of belleville washer ?
  • Birmingham, Al.
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Offline TimmyMac1

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 01:11:47 PM »
Mr. Rsterne & Rescue912, that's what I wanted to do ( DIY ).  I always like to know how things work but I wanted to be done right. Now  comes the question.
1. Mr. Rsterne looking at the graph  I would only need 1 thin cup washer and shims it to 0.020" to get 1000 psi. Is that correct ?
2. After I remove the spring in the reg do I need anything to hold the belleville washer and shims  in place? If so, can you tell me.
3. Does the shims have the same I.D. & O.D. of belleville washer ?
Just throw in one shim and try it. If you get a third of the way there go three times as thick. I can sell you a 3K gauge on the top of a tank top to check output pressure. Budget reg checker $35 310-327-3582
I have a bunch of blank Ninja Bonnets and some marked 1200 and some 1400's I carry 800 & 1400 PSI 13 and 22 ci vessels and I also have Ninja Regs no tanks.
I used a Ninja Reg 1400 psi on My US FT HPA Regulated Heavy Varmint Benchrest AirRifle I took 3rd in the World Last year with. They work great.
"No Guns Would be a Riot"

Offline rsterne

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2012, 03:26:18 PM »
Yes, you are correct, one thin disc spring, plus the ten thick ones, plus a 0.020" shim.... That will get you close.... However, that data was done on ONE regulator, and they will vary a bit.... The standard disc spring stack looks like this....

) ) () () () () ( ( | |

There are one or two thin disc springs on the ends, depending on pressure range.... The flat shims are 5/8" OD x 3/8" ID.... I purchase all stainless ones (bellevilles and shims) from McMaster Carr.... If Tim has them available, that sounds even easier....

Bob
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal:
.177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine (Grouse Gun), 2260 PCP Rifle (37 FPE), 2560 PCP Rifle (52 FPE), .22 BAM B-26, .22 BAM B-51, Hatsan AT-4410 Long (70 FPE),
"Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, .308 & .357 unregulated; working on the Mk.III, a .410 shotgun, and .458 cal)

Offline renowntwo

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 11:06:21 AM »
Thanks Mr. Timmy, I will keep your offer in mind. Mr. Rsterne also thanks again for your keep. Will update yall soon on my progress.
 
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Offline 1377x

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 07:27:18 PM »
am i reading this right
you can take an 850psi regulator,remove the coil spring, replace it with belleville washers and shims(are the shims belleville,too?)
stack them in the order shown in rsternes post now its a high pressure regulator 1000psi-1500psi
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Offline rsterne

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 11:42:32 PM »
You can with a Ninja regulator for sure, I've done several, and the housings are identical.... They may have different burst discs, of course.... The shims are flat....

Bob
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal:
.177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine (Grouse Gun), 2260 PCP Rifle (37 FPE), 2560 PCP Rifle (52 FPE), .22 BAM B-26, .22 BAM B-51, Hatsan AT-4410 Long (70 FPE),
"Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, .308 & .357 unregulated; working on the Mk.III, a .410 shotgun, and .458 cal)

Offline 1377x

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 11:51:21 PM »
thanks for the reply
i want to go hpa with a 2250b.i have read a lot of your posts on airgunhome
all safety margins will be followed
i dont know where i want my tank.intergrated into the stock or to use a drop down adapter
there are two that i know of the qb adapter and the jds adapter
i hear the jds adapter doesnt require the co2 cap threads to be cut off
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Offline rsterne

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 11:55:34 PM »
I would never mount a tank block where the tube is not full thickness.... ie I would cut off the threads.... The JDS has additional screw holes further from the end of the tube, which is a design weakness on the QB79 block....

Bob
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal:
.177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine (Grouse Gun), 2260 PCP Rifle (37 FPE), 2560 PCP Rifle (52 FPE), .22 BAM B-26, .22 BAM B-51, Hatsan AT-4410 Long (70 FPE),
"Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, .308 & .357 unregulated; working on the Mk.III, a .410 shotgun, and .458 cal)

Offline 1377x

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2012, 12:07:31 AM »
that makes sense to me !!
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Offline renowntwo

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2012, 01:50:01 PM »
Mr. Rsterne, went to MC web site and reseached the belleville washers and shims. I see that there are several to choose from. I now you said stainless steel 5/8x3/8. But I'm still.have a hard time picking the right ones. Is there any way that you could list the parts # for the correct ones? Example: shims in .020 comes in two different type . One being type 316 and the other is 18-8. Both seem to be resistant to moisture and corrosion
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Online QVTom

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2012, 03:29:40 PM »
General differences in the two types.  I'd defer to rsterne's recommendations though.

Type 316 will have the best corrosion resistance and will be somewhat softer than 18-8 as it can't be hardened.  8-18 is a commercial grade alloy that is used extensively in low cot SS fasteners and may have a higher hardness but will corrode quickly if used in the wrong application (marine).  I would think either type would work as the environment is not "hostile". 

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Offline renowntwo

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Re: ninja paintball regulator ?
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2012, 10:31:35 PM »
Thanks for the infor Mr. Tom.
  • Birmingham, Al.
Big Cat 1200 (home tuned by me)
Marksman 0035(home tuned by me)
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